Once you acquire three avatar Visions for Iron Atronach which is called Scorching Set, you unlock the ability to acquire Iron Atronacn Verse for that run. So you just have to be lucky to be offered at the end of a stage. You can also try Mystery Utility Verse scrolls every Cycle to increase your chances.

The transformations are randomly spawned verses once you have unlocked all three base visions for the transformation in that run. You just have to be lucky to get the transformation verse itself.

PS: The transformations are awesome! Use them whenever you can.

As great as the transformations are it's just another case of ZOS putting RNG behind RNG and calling it good game design. Gotta be lucky enough to get all three visions and then lucky enough to get the transformation verse and then you better hope the transformation doesn't also put you at a severe disadvantage because RNG decided to give you the bestial transformation just before giving you a boss with consistent AOE damage at later arcs the bestial transformation is incapable of healing through.

I had an Arc 9 run end that way because you can't drop that form if you wanted to and Laatvulon has some nasty consistent aoe damage when he flies at that stage. It ate 4 threads because of bad RNG.

Panderbander wrote: »

As great as the transformations are it's just another case of ZOS putting RNG behind RNG and calling it good game design. Gotta be lucky enough to get all three visions and then lucky enough to get the transformation verse and then you better hope the transformation doesn't also put you at a severe disadvantage because RNG decided to give you the bestial transformation just before giving you a boss with consistent AOE damage at later arcs the bestial transformation is incapable of healing through.

I had an Arc 9 run end that way because you can't drop that form if you wanted to and Laatvulon has some nasty consistent aoe damage when he flies at that stage. It ate 4 threads because of bad RNG.

This is why I want a memento that has a small chance(5% for each) to grant a transformation verse every time you get to pick verses without having to unlock all three visions first, if you have already unlocked all three transformation achievements that is.

And I agree with you about the beastial transformation. If you get the wrong boss, it could put you at a severe disadvantage. I have never had that though, both because the transformations are so rare and because I have never gotten that far into the EA. It's also the only transformation which changes your skillbar.

Jaimeh wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

As great as the transformations are it's just another case of ZOS putting RNG behind RNG and calling it good game design. Gotta be lucky enough to get all three visions and then lucky enough to get the transformation verse and then you better hope the transformation doesn't also put you at a severe disadvantage because RNG decided to give you the bestial transformation just before giving you a boss with consistent AOE damage at later arcs the bestial transformation is incapable of healing through.

I had an Arc 9 run end that way because you can't drop that form if you wanted to and Laatvulon has some nasty consistent aoe damage when he flies at that stage. It ate 4 threads because of bad RNG.

You chose to complete the set and then you chose to get the verse that activated it yourself, so it's not the game just giving you the transformation. Personally, I never get the bestial transformation visions because I don't like the inflexibility of the skill bar.

Also, since they are really powerful, it makes sense they wouldn't drop frequently, but despite the RNG nature I almost always have one set (or more) complete during a run, and almost always have had mystery verses that activate them, so I think the RNG is fine.

Please do not focus on the specifics of the example provided. Yes I chose to use the vision; in most cases it's hella fun to play. In hindsight I would not have taken it there.

The problem, however, isn't the balancing of the vision so much as it is the way EA runs live and die by pure randomness. Getting the visions for a transformation are random, getting the verse is random, getting a boss that makes the chosen verse useless is random (such as choosing the interrupt verse then getting a boss with no interruptable mechanics). Getting Gothmau during a wave with three infusers is random.

I've had runs where I got 5 stacks of Focused Efforts in the first 3 arcs and proceeded to mow down everything in sight. I've also gotten runs where I have nothing but irrelevant visions or small damage reduction visions and verses and the place was a slog. The level of RNG in EA isn't fun and engaging gameplay; it's a point of frustration, just like pretty much every bit of truly random RNG in the game (like when i had to kill over 120 bosses total in Coral Aerie for the lead off the final secret boss. Fun.)

Weighted RNG is a much better mechanic. Didn't get the verse this time? Well next time the chance of the verse showing up increases by X%. It smooths out difficulty curves and leads to a better overall experience.

Jaimeh wrote: »

See, the RNG of buffs and bosses is what I like about the EA, because it makes every run different and every encounter within a run different (and also helps with the replayability of the content); Boss X in arc X with buffs X will be a very different experience than Y, and so on, and having to adjust your build/skills on the spot makes it exciting, involved and engaging, imo. I like that I have to check if there are two infusers in a pull or two flame-shapers, what I need to interrupt and prioritize, instead of mindlessly killing the adds, it's an extra element of challenge and mindful play, the randomness is part of the challenge that makes it fun and rewarding.

I 100% agree with this, if it weren't random and every run was the same there is no way I'd still be enjoying this after an embarrassing number of runs through the Archive. That's part of what makes it endless to me, endless possibilities of how a run is going to go, if I could cherry pick and be the same OP run every time it would lose it's luster extremely quickly.

That said, I wouldn't mind it weighing avatars more once unlocked, but if not, I'm fine as it is.