Eating my words again (about the Endless Archive this time)

Lugaldu · November 2023

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

I wanted EA to be a HUGE sprawling public dungeon that had different areas and variety, with randomly generated chests/secret areas and side mini bosses so as to make the "grinding" happen naturally.

To be honest, I had imagined the EA to be more varied. The number of backgrounds/settings is very limited, the selection of possible opponents (especially with the trash mobs) seems extremely repetitive to me and overall it is not very varied. It's the same thing over and over again.

SilverBride · November 2023

Lugaldu wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

I wanted EA to be a HUGE sprawling public dungeon that had different areas and variety, with randomly generated chests/secret areas and side mini bosses so as to make the "grinding" happen naturally.

To be honest, I had imagined the EA to be more varied. The number of backgrounds/settings is very limited, the selection of possible opponents (especially with the trash mobs) seems extremely repetitive to me and overall it is not very varied. It's the same thing over and over again.

I've only seen Arcs 1 and 2 so far. I assumed there would be different backgrounds as we progressed but this isn't so?

Sarannah · November 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

I wanted EA to be a HUGE sprawling public dungeon that had different areas and variety, with randomly generated chests/secret areas and side mini bosses so as to make the "grinding" happen naturally.

To be honest, I had imagined the EA to be more varied. The number of backgrounds/settings is very limited, the selection of possible opponents (especially with the trash mobs) seems extremely repetitive to me and overall it is not very varied. It's the same thing over and over again.

I've only seen Arcs 1 and 2 so far. I assumed there would be different backgrounds as we progressed but this isn't so?

Nope, but it makes sense. As this is the eternal archive, and not a collection of worlds. All the creatures came from the books, yet never left the archive. And I have to admit I really like the backgrounds!

MrGarlic · November 2023

LIKES:
I like the way the archive is configured.
The challenge.
The side portals.

DISLIKES:
3 lives. (It's not a 1980s arcade game thanks)
Having to totally restart on 3rd death.
Lag/latency issues.

What I would like to see.
Infinite lives so I can figure out boss mechanics without having to restart and find it again.

Kudos to the Devs for such good new content. That said, I won't be going back any time soon. I just don't have time to play it.

katanagirl1 · November 2023

I won’t get to try this until later in the week, but I have some thoughts just from reading all these posts.

Could there be a different difficulty for solo versus duo? Most of the duo pairs seem to be doing much better than solo or solo plus companion. A companion is not a good substitute for another player, but for some players it might be the only option. I guess that is not considered solo though.

It sounds like if you want to be successful you need a build dedicated to this one area out of the entire game. Having to make a tanky build is not the sort of thing that end-game arena type content has been about for as long as I have been playing. I remember a post from someone who complained there was not content for tanks and I think this is the result. Being tanky is less dps and takes more time. This is a common complaint here.

Also, I think its content highlights the problem with class balance. I would be willing to bet that the DKs and Arcanists do well but if I were to try this with my stamblade I would be completely crushed and the sorc only slightly better. Yeah I could make a new character but that is a considerable time investment and not much of what I am seeing here is encouraging me to do so. I have PvP and trials commitments that take up much time.

I will give it a try, but I will have to solo with a companion and with one of my current characters and their current build, if it goes badly I will then have try to decide whether to continue. I feel like I should be able to just make some tweaks to something I already have than a complete overhaul.

EdjeSwift · November 2023

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I will give it a try, but I will have to solo with a companion and with one of my current characters and their current build, if it goes badly I will then have try to decide whether to continue. I feel like I should be able to just make some tweaks to something I already have than a complete overhaul.

I haven't noticed a difference between true solo and solo w/ companion in terms of difficulty and others have stated it's the same regardless of 1 or 2 players. As for using your current spec, I did the same thing on my Jabplar, went in there blind and just jabbed my way through stuff, it wasn't enough for later bits of the dungeon, but early on, during the learning phase it's perfectly fine. You might have to adjust gear or one or two skills, but as long as you're having fun, that's what matters.

Tannus15 · November 2023

Any build you can take into vMA will be fine in EA initially.

SilverBride · November 2023

My friend and I ran this today and one of the bosses we encountered was Captain Blackheart. Does this boss spawn for those playing Solo, or Solo with a Companion too, because his mechanic of turning someone into a skeleton that is unable to fight back would make this fight next to impossible.

EdjeSwift · November 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

My friend and I ran this today and one of the bosses we encountered was Captain Blackheart. Does this boss spawn for those playing Solo, or Solo with a Companion too, because his mechanic of turning someone into a skeleton that is unable to fight back would make this fight next to impossible.

They do, but it's only a few seconds at most and then you can break free.

SilverBride · November 2023

EdjeSwift wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

My friend and I ran this today and one of the bosses we encountered was Captain Blackheart. Does this boss spawn for those playing Solo, or Solo with a Companion too, because his mechanic of turning someone into a skeleton that is unable to fight back would make this fight next to impossible.

They do, but it's only a few seconds at most and then you can break free.

That is good to know. Thanks!

SkaiFaith · November 2023

OP, I appreciate the positive thread, hope you don't mind if I'm late to the party, console player here.

I won't share the screenshot because I don't want to give away my Gamertag but, if you trust my word: it was worth the pain to be N.1 Warden on the Solo leaderboard for Xbox EU after launch day, with a modest 3-5-3, where other classes (sorcerer and arcanist) did better.

I wasn't expecting to have this much fun out of Endless Archive. Definitely stressful for me, but really adrenaline pumping!
I don't think my N.1 spot will remain for long, but it's really good til it lasts XD
Enjoy Endless Archive, everyone~
(I'll have Tho'at in my nightmares tonight XD)

SilverBride · November 2023

That is awesome @SkaiFaith! I am glad you are enjoying it too!

SilverBride · November 2023

There is one thing that stands out to me that I'd like to see addressed. The final boss of the Arc is greatly more difficult than the other bosses in that Arc. I would expect them to be a greater challenge than the rest but they are disproportionately more difficult. It's like going from a base game World Boss to a Veteran Trial Boss.

Please adjust the final boss difficulty to be more in line with the rest of the Arc.

Necrotech_Master · November 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

I wanted EA to be a HUGE sprawling public dungeon that had different areas and variety, with randomly generated chests/secret areas and side mini bosses so as to make the "grinding" happen naturally.

To be honest, I had imagined the EA to be more varied. The number of backgrounds/settings is very limited, the selection of possible opponents (especially with the trash mobs) seems extremely repetitive to me and overall it is not very varied. It's the same thing over and over again.

I've only seen Arcs 1 and 2 so far. I assumed there would be different backgrounds as we progressed but this isn't so?

theres at least 6-8 different variations of the arenas for add stages

there are also 16 different enemy groups that can show up in the archive

the boss stages and tho'at are always fixed arenas

even with some of the same arenas showing up, it still feels varied enough for me that it doesnt get too dull, where as running a dungeon is always the same fixed layout

Necrotech_Master · November 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

There is one thing that stands out to me that I'd like to see addressed. The final boss of the Arc is greatly more difficult than the other bosses in that Arc. I would expect them to be a greater challenge than the rest but they are disproportionately more difficult. It's like going from a base game World Boss to a Veteran Trial Boss.

Please adjust the final boss difficulty to be more in line with the rest of the Arc.

for arc 1 and 2, i would probably agree that tho'at is slightly overtuned, oddly enough after arc 4 tho'at actually generally becomes significantly easier than most of the add stages

the furthest ive gone is arc 9, the arc 8 tho'at was still way easier than add stages at that point (the standard adds in arc 9 have 1.7 million hp so really need those stacked visions and offensive verses to deal any amount of fast dps)

that run finally ended at one of the cycle bosses in arc 9

the biggest issues with overtuned enemies are still the marauders

EdjeSwift · November 2023

There are limited arenas yes, but as @Necrotech_Master mentioned, there is enough variety to them so that it's not too boring. I am thankful for this however, because as repetition occurs you learn spawn points, choke points, and how to avoid certain bugs in these stages.

For example, I like to play the angles and gather my enemies up and I know where to do this on most of the arenas, and I know which ones (the one with the stairs) to avoid doing it on due to buggy terrain. This is definitely one of those things things were repetition is a good thing, you'll start getting faster and more efficient.

I had limited time for a run before running to the office this morning so I figured I'd go in and knock out a quick Act 1 run for the daily and head out and I decided to keep casual check of the time and realized that I spent more time doing mini-games than the actual dungeon because I pulled the Theatre of Battle final version and that alone took me longer than my first full cycle because of how I do it patiently and maintain my stamina.

SkaiFaith · November 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

That is awesome @SkaiFaith! I am glad you are enjoying it too!

Thank you very much @SilverBride but what broke me was understanding that reaching Act 4 unlocks a rare achievement on consoles, and I got SO close...
I tried again this time with a companion and I did worse 'cause of bad luck with Bosses - still never died to a marauder, 4 wins 0 losses to them. Being pushed out of the platform feels so unfair btw... Shame on me.

Maybe I'll have to use the new Group Finder to see if anyone helps me get to Arc 4. I don't aim higher than that, but I have to admit: it's really addictive!

About your point on the Arc Boss, I agree it's really hard from Arc 2 already, but I'm not sure if it is much harder than some "BAD" Cycle Bosses - they can be a problem too.

Gray_howling_parrot · November 2023

Cheers to you! A great quality to look back on things like that

hope you continue to enjoy it!

SilverBride · November 2023

Cooperharley wrote: »

Cheers to you! A great quality to look back on things like that hope you continue to enjoy it!

Thank you.

I hoped I would continue to enjoy it too, but the frustration with not being able to progress past Arc 1 more than once solo, and not making it past Tho'at in Arc 2 with a friend ever is taking a toll.

This boss is way too difficult for the early Arcs that are supposed to be the easiest and I hope they make some adjustments.

SeaGtGruff · November 2023

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

I played enough to get a couple of reward emails for participation. I used to like doing things like grinding a public dungeon or mob spawn for a couple of hours.

However, lately, Grinding is just a Grind. Not sure if I will go back.

I was hoping for more overland story content this update.

Me too. I wanted EA to be a HUGE sprawling public dungeon that had different areas and variety, with randomly generated chests/secret areas and side mini bosses so as to make the "grinding" happen naturally. If done right every experience could be quite different from what another might experience as maps/starting areas would also be randomized. It could offer progressive difficulty, taking from the game world other dungeons and overland areas for inspiration.

As it sits now EA has no WOW factor at all, and to me that is the largest disappointment.

I wonder if the small size of each wing was a deliberate decision-- keep the locations small so the waves of fighting can occur more rapidly? Otherwise, if some amount of exploration were needed, the waves would be more spread out timewise, so more time would be required to clear each level.

blacksghost · November 2023

As someone that can’t get past arc 1 Tho’at I can see me getting fed up and dispirited before too long. That’s not the games fault it’s entirely my lack of skill. That said the randomness of verses and bosses does at least stave off total despair.

Sarannah · November 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Cheers to you! A great quality to look back on things like that hope you continue to enjoy it!

Thank you.

I hoped I would continue to enjoy it too, but the frustration with not being able to progress past Arc 1 more than once solo, and not making it past Tho'at in Arc 2 with a friend ever is taking a toll.

This boss is way too difficult for the early Arcs that are supposed to be the easiest and I hope they make some adjustments.

I do agree with you, the Tho'at fight is too chaotic. Just removing the ground AOE's Tho'at spawns would go a long way. As that means one less mechanic to worry about, and the companion not dying right away. Which would make a tank companion a huge help for those having issues in the fight. While at the same time making the fight easier for non-ranged players.

At first I had issues with Tho'at too, but after better understanding what to do, it became easier and easier. Even arc 3 tho'at is now easy for me. Did arc 2 tho'at on three different characters already, templar, arcanist, necro.

If you are on PC EU, feel free to ask me to join you on a run. I run to atleast arc 3 every day, depending on how much time I have to play and how fast I can get the event stylepage/tickets.

The main thing about the archive is, it requires a new type of build. One where you do enough damage, but have quite some defenses as well. When you have a build like that, and build the verses/visions to stack and complement your build, you can get really far. But the EA builds needs proper balance, too much damage means too few defenses, and too much defenses means too little damage. (this is for solo runs)

maboleth · November 2023

Why is this thread so popular?
It's basically 'I tend to dis something before trying, I've tried it now and liked it'. Even Devs responded congratulating.

What did I miss?

SkaiFaith · November 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Cooperharley wrote: »

Cheers to you! A great quality to look back on things like that hope you continue to enjoy it!

Thank you.

I hoped I would continue to enjoy it too, but the frustration with not being able to progress past Arc 1 more than once solo, and not making it past Tho'at in Arc 2 with a friend ever is taking a toll.

This boss is way too difficult for the early Arcs that are supposed to be the easiest and I hope they make some adjustments.

After my last comment I've been able to reach Arc 5 changing build. My advice: build for resistances! I built for 30K resistances which would go to the 33K cap when casting Resolving Vigor.

Tho'at fights become doable once you can resist to a lot of damage and have big heals. It requires lot of patience and maintaining calm and focus, if you panic you easily make a mistake and get punished. There's no time requirements so take it slow and you'll go further... in a few hours.

A suggestion I don't see anyone say - fight the various forms of Tho'at in order, one at a time.
I got killed in Arc 4 because I ended up having to fight the final 3 versions of Tho'at all together, because I spread my damage between them before. It's an error. You want to focus on getting rid of the various forms one at a time in order. This way you won't have to fight too many bosses together.

They spawn when the general health reaches certain percentages, so even in Arc 3, if you beat down the first Tho'at without touching the second, you'll fight the third when the first will already be dead. Instead if you spread damage between bosses you'll have to deal with more of them together.

katanagirl1 · November 2023

blacksghost wrote: »

As someone that can’t get past arc 1 Tho’at I can see me getting fed up and dispirited before too long. That’s not the games fault it’s entirely my lack of skill. That said the randomness of verses and bosses does at least stave off total despair.

I remember someone saying to make sure you don’t ignore the blob adds, so I kept moving and when those came up, stopped dps on the boss. I just struggled to keep the Oakensorc pets up during the fight. I think tank Bastian did a pretty good job there. He did die but stayed up long enough.

EDIT: ahhh Bastian not Bastion

blacksghost · November 2023

maboleth wrote: »

Why is this thread so popular?
It's basically 'I tend to dis something before trying, I've tried it now and liked it'. Even Devs responded congratulating.

What did I miss?

Perhaps because admitting when we have been wrong is a sign of maturity and a positive thing?

It’s nice to see a positive thread in a world full of complaining. Imho

jaws343 · November 2023

katanagirl1 wrote: »

blacksghost wrote: »

As someone that can’t get past arc 1 Tho’at I can see me getting fed up and dispirited before too long. That’s not the games fault it’s entirely my lack of skill. That said the randomness of verses and bosses does at least stave off total despair.

I remember someone saying to make sure you don’t ignore the blob adds, so I kept moving and when those came up, stopped dps on the boss. I just struggled to keep the Oakensorc pets up during the fight. I think tank Bastian did a pretty good job there. He did die but stayed up long enough.

EDIT: ahhh Bastian not Bastion

I ditched pets for this on my oakensorc. Stacked crit with orders wrath in heavy.

Then just using hardened ward, crit surge, wall of elements, bound armor. With either ele sus or caltrops flexed in for when I have the status effect vision.

The shield seems to be doing enough to cover the healing. The crit chance is over 50 so surge procs often. No worry about pets dying, very few active damage skills, with heavies making up most of the damage. Meteor ult for passives and ult Regen ability

Regularly getting to arc 6 solo with this setup.

katanagirl1 · November 2023

jaws343 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

blacksghost wrote: »

As someone that can’t get past arc 1 Tho’at I can see me getting fed up and dispirited before too long. That’s not the games fault it’s entirely my lack of skill. That said the randomness of verses and bosses does at least stave off total despair.

I remember someone saying to make sure you don’t ignore the blob adds, so I kept moving and when those came up, stopped dps on the boss. I just struggled to keep the Oakensorc pets up during the fight. I think tank Bastian did a pretty good job there. He did die but stayed up long enough.

EDIT: ahhh Bastian not Bastion

I ditched pets for this on my oakensorc. Stacked crit with orders wrath in heavy.

Then just using hardened ward, crit surge, wall of elements, bound armor. With either ele sus or caltrops flexed in for when I have the status effect vision.

The shield seems to be doing enough to cover the healing. The crit chance is over 50 so surge procs often. No worry about pets dying, very few active damage skills, with heavies making up most of the damage. Meteor ult for passives and ult Regen ability

Regularly getting to arc 6 solo with this setup.

I’m impressed!

Really arc 1 is about the max time I want to put into this anyway. I appreciate you sharing your build, I will look into it.

SilverBride · November 2023

maboleth wrote: »

Why is this thread so popular?
It's basically 'I tend to dis something before trying, I've tried it now and liked it'. Even Devs responded congratulating.

What did I miss?

The reason I created this thread was because I have a bad tendency to judge new features before I have experienced them myself. Because of this I could have missed out on things I now find enjoyable after all.

I suspect I am not the only player that has done this and I just wanted to give a heads up to give things a chance before making assumptions so others won't miss out on something they may enjoy after all, too.

EmEm_Oh · November 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

I wish they would create a separate non competitive instance without a leaderboard that includes saves, for those of us that wish to experience this more casually.

Yup. I would say most ESO players are in it for the experience...not the leaderboard.