Why is ESO so group unfriendly?

zakarunrwb17_ESO · May 2014

Hello,

Coming from a long line of MMOs that I've played through the years, I must say, ESO is by far the most restrictive game when it comes to group questing. Not only that each of the group members have to complete the quest separately, but also doing any quest while your friend is not online, will mean that you've left him behind. If the quest is part of a chain quest, that means you'll be phased out and won't be even able to see each other while grouped.

I know the devs were trying to bridge the whole single player/ mmo gap, but it looks to me like the single player side has way too much emphasis in this game, to the point where grouping is mostly useless. This is an MMO after all, and it should be treated as such. Grouping with your friends should be fun, not restrictive. You should be able to redo quests from areas you've already completed. You should be able to get the quest completion if your group member completes the task in your vicinity.

Right now I cannot play while my friend isn't online, because we want to complete the quests together, so we won't get synced out. This is by far the worst feature (or lack of features) in this game for me. I really hope the developers plan to fix this, and allow people that want to group (in an mmo) to actually play grouped outside dungeons as well.

Best regards,

Zak.

GreySix · May 2014

Yeah, have been beating this particular drum for some time.

They are working on fixing being able to at least "see" grouped folks in phased instances, but there's no word on whether or not the grouped folks you can see will be able to do anything.

Elember · May 2014

GreySix wrote: »

Yeah, have been beating this particular drum for some time.

They are working on fixing being able to at least "see" grouped folks in phased instances, but there's no word on whether or not the grouped folks you can see will be able to do anything.

Yeah that's what I was thinking when I read Matt's comments that they are working on allowing players to see each other in different phases of the same area.

Because that is how ESO phasing works, as soon as you complete an area usually the area changes to reflect what you have done. So your buddy decides to help you kill Mannimarco because he was able to steam roll the guy and you are getting one shotted, however when he enters the phase he can see you but Mannimarco is dead in his version of that phase so it is completely pointless for him to even bother to come along with you....

Unless they want your buddy to be like the companions you rescue in your Cold Harbor adventures where all they do is tag along and stand around while you die and act as if everything is peachy keen....

Sihnfahl · May 2014

Well, to be fair, other MMOs that implement phasing have that same issue (and they haven't really addressed it, either, very well).

The thing that is key is how to make it unexploitable.

GreySix · May 2014

Sihnfahl wrote: »

Well, to be fair, other MMOs that implement phasing have that same issue (and they haven't really addressed it, either, very well).

IMO, SWTOR got that piece right.

Sakiri · May 2014

WoWs phasing isnt a problem now either. I see my buddy but he sees a ruined town, I dont.

Xaei · May 2014

They can do something like Dark Souls I guess, where you can summon a friend into your phase to help you, and he can pop back to his own phase afterwards.

To be honest, I still strongly believe that they should have gone with a CO-RPG approach instead of a MMORPG

Gisgo · May 2014

Because every modern MMO is supposed to be almost entirely soloable.
Why? I have no idea. Gamers demanded so?

Pele · May 2014

Agree. Grouping in ESO means everyone in your group plays together, yet solo. It is odd.

GreySix · May 2014

Gisgo wrote: »

Because every modern MMO is supposed to be almost entirely soloable.
Why? I have no idea. Gamers demanded so?

Have no issue with ESO being able to be played solo-only, but do have an issue with locking content as solo-only.

Again, SWTOR got that piece right, and ESO screwed the pooch on this.

Syntse · May 2014

Topic that has come up many times. And I'm sure Zenimax is thinking solutions to this. Also hopefully reading some good ideas from the community. As couple of examples:

- Phasing based on group leader
- Being able to re-accept the quest without reward that would put you into the same phase. (Your friend would need to offer this)

zakarunrwb17_ESO · May 2014

In my honest opinion, ESO can be so much more than a game you play near your friends. It deserves to be more than this.

e.gamemarkb14_ESO · May 2014

Their current grouping system feels very hostile towards actually grouping. We already know for fact that if you have more then 2 players in a group, you take a significant XP hit.

Dungeons from lvl 10-49 have lackluster rewards most of the time. I recently cleared all 3 dungeons lvl 28-32 and out of the 15+ bosses killed, I only got 4-5 blue items, while all the rest of the bosses dropped only a crystal + white loot, with the occasional green loot.

Once you complete a dungeon, you get no real XP running it again with another group, even if you just want to help. This wastes your time in running dungeons a 2nd time or more for the simple fact that:

1. You are no longer getting any XP
2. The rewards are very lack luster and frankly worthless most of the time
3. The only thing I get stuck with is a massive repair bill

They need to put some serious rethinking into how XP is earned, especially in dungeons, and more so by removing XP grouping penalties.

Maybe I should have posted this in under the re-playability post, as so far this ESO experience is forcing more players away because of all the anti-grouping systems in place along with other major issues that I will post in another topic.

Singular · May 2014

e.gamemarkb14_ESO wrote: »

Their current grouping system feels very hostile towards actually grouping. We already know for fact that if you have more then 2 players in a group, you take a significant XP hit.

Dungeons from lvl 10-49 have lackluster rewards most of the time. I recently cleared all 3 dungeons lvl 28-32 and out of the 15+ bosses killed, I only got 4-5 blue items, while all the rest of the bosses dropped only a crystal + white loot, with the occasional green loot.

Once you complete a dungeon, you get no real XP running it again with another group, even if you just want to help. This wastes your time in running dungeons a 2nd time or more for the simple fact that:

1. You are no longer getting any XP
2. The rewards are very lack luster and frankly worthless most of the time
3. The only thing I get stuck with is a massive repair bill

They need to put some serious rethinking into how XP is earned, especially in dungeons, and more so by removing XP grouping penalties.

Maybe I should have posted this in under the re-playability post, as so far this ESO experience is forcing more players away because of all the anti-grouping systems in place along with other major issues that I will post in another topic.

Wait, how do you take an xp loss with more than 2 players? That's upsetting.

Varivox9 · May 2014

Yep. It's another thing that the devs didn't think out very well.

I remember the first 5day pre-access that we had, my guild in TS had a lot of players teaming up to use their rings of Mara so they could boost their way to endgame easier. It worked out well the first day they did that (since they were all starting a character from lvl 1 basicly) but as soon as one person logged out and another didn't, the grouping was fubar. To add insult to all of this, I didn't use the ring of mara and I easily outleveled them before they gave up trying to use them since I didn't have to spend an hour or two waiting for someone else to catch up. The best part is when guildies asked me to help them out on a fight and I went there hoping to help and all I found was an empty cave and an arrow above where they should be standing.

Right now, unless your schedules literally match up 100%, don't bother grouping. Allowing people to "see" eachother is great, but what does it matter if, from the sound of it, I still can't help them kill anything?

Paralyse · May 2014

This is my #1 gripe with the game, far above and away from anything else, to the point where I feel ZOS may have nearly been deceptive when calling the game a MMO. There are many players online, but all they do is get in your way, since you can't do anything with them in a group. My best friend, who I was hoping to level with, we can't, because if we get off by even 1 quest, its done for. Also, I can't help her through tough spots with my alts, which sucks worse.

They really should have fixed this prelaunch, it's starting to make me reconsider subbing, why have players in game you can't do anything with?

Chryos · May 2014

Some wanted a MMO they can do solo, some want an MMO they can play as a group, ZOS is trying to make everyone happy on both ends, we need to be patient while they work out the game. We screamed for the game to be out earlier, so we gotta work with them now..

Paralyse · May 2014

Chryos wrote: »

Some wanted a MMO they can do solo, some want an MMO they can play as a group, ZOS is trying to make everyone happy on both ends, we need to be patient while they work out the game. We screamed for the game to be out earlier, so we gotta work with them now..

Except you can't play as a group pretty much at all.

GreySix · May 2014

Chryos wrote: »

Some wanted a MMO they can do solo, some want an MMO they can play as a group, ZOS is trying to make everyone happy on both ends, we need to be patient while they work out the game. We screamed for the game to be out earlier, so we gotta work with them now..

If grouping was allowed where currently solo-only play is allowed, I'd be inclined to agree.

But that isn't the case.

Varivox9 · May 2014

Chryos wrote: »

Some wanted a MMO they can do solo, some want an MMO they can play as a group, ZOS is trying to make everyone happy on both ends, we need to be patient while they work out the game. We screamed for the game to be out earlier, so we gotta work with them now..

There in lies the main, fundamental issue with ESO though. ZOS made a game trying to make the single player fans happy AND the multiplayer fans happy. What we got is a bastardized version of both. You will never make everyone happy, and ZOS's attempt has, imo, resulted in a massive design flaws in ESO. We may have wanted it early, but if ZOS had any faith in themselves, they'd have waited till it was ready and delivered a product they wanted instead of a single player MMO.