exeeter702 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

NB, Sorcerer, & DK are not a healing class.

You know what im actually going to expand on this because comments like this have annoyed me since the day this game went live.

Not only are you wrong, but this isnt even a matter of modern eso. No, in fact, this has never been the case even with the original 4 classes.

There has historically been a subset of players in this game that have falsely believed that Templar, once upon a time, was intentionally designed by ZOS to be the definitive / defacto healer of ESO. This belief generally came from two places, one being that they had a "dedicated healing skill line" (more on this fallacy later) and that all end game optimized groups only ever ran Tamplar in the healer role. Do not confuse these individuals with those who understood the simple truth of the matter that Templar was the optimal healer just as a matter of circumstance, because they absolutely were, but it had nothing to do with implicit design by the developers.

Early on, there were some of us, myself included, that realized objectively that the healing throughput between the 4 classes was actually nearly on par with one another, and this was including templars (and DKs) major mending, with sorc being on lowest end, but not by much. It was not a coincidence or a design oversight that the restoration staffs skill and passive offerings were actually analogous to the templars restoring light skill line. This design approach was the case then and remains the case today, many of the universally available skills functioned as alternatives to class skills, not exclusively as supplements or empowerments. Its for this reason alone that Restoring lights passive did little to bolster the restoration staff and vice versa and why many of the restoring light skills were regularly omitted in place of the more reliable and practical restoration skills that occupied the same application space in group play. It was simply a matter of templar being in a unique position that if they desired it, they could fill the healer role without having to rely as much on the restoration staff where the other classes leaned more heavily on it. There was an actual argument for breath of life vs healing ward for some non templar healer builds, namely NBs who at the time had unmatched HOT values and made excellent use of healing ward's health buffer effect while the hots did their work but I digress, optimized end game groups back then didnt use either in pve, PVP was another story.

It was never about the restoring light skill line. It had everything to do with Templars exclusive possession of a critical utility in giving stamina back to group members, tanks particularly. No other class could provide this and no DPS templar would commit to slotting it without taking a dps hit. Then when undaunted was added, templar having a reliable other synergy (purifying ritual) allowed groups to gain more from the undaunted passive. The irony ultimately being that the key factor that made templar the best fit in the healer role was a skill that was not present in the restoring light skill line.

Fast forward to around DB/TG updates, and you began to see adjustments made to the other classes to help them in the healing role, things like NB getting (at the time) the strongest single target hot in the game, sorc getting a burst heal by way of a matriarch change and DKs getting cauterize and obsidian shard burst heal, design issues not withstanding, anyone keenly in tune with the games design philosophy understood exactly what place these changes were coming from.

Leading up to Morrowinds release, Rich stated in an ESO live about a design shift moving forward, starting with the wardens skill lines, that better, more clearly defines each of the roles as they are reflected in the 3 skill lines (we see this approach repeated with the necro) wherein their goal was to communicate to newer players how they can achieve healing or tanking by looking at the skill lines in question, it was much more streamlined and compartmentalized. You see, with the initial class (less so with templar ofc) it was not as immediately obvious how said classes accomplish healing as many of the aspects that enable them as healers are buried in passives and morphs across all 3 skill lines eg. Nightblade gaining healing done by slotting siphoning skills, funnel health ally healing being behind a morph, utility healing like refreshing path behind a morph AND in a skill line that also contains key tanking and damage dealing utilities. It was more intricate and involved and required a minor degree of class knowledge that went slightly beyond the surface. They wanted to shift away from this according to Rich.

Of course it came as no surprise (to me at least) when morrowind patch notes dropped and it was revealed that orbs would became an analogous skill to templars shards (sound familiar?). Templars were outraged by this change, as they felt it reduced a key identity to the class, a semi fair criticism but ultimately the bigger picture was more important. Templars having a monopoly on such a key utility would ensure no other class ever could occupy the role. They made this change for that reason alone. There was an argument to be made regarding shards vs orbs, along the lines of application range vs speed - shards could only be used by one group member per GCD, orbs also once per GCD cast but you could send out multiple reaching more group members while you return to healing. Regardless, no amount of DSA resto staffs and sentinel of rkugamzs passed around was ever going to challenge shards synergy utility.

Ever since then, changes have been made periodically to the game (for better or worse) that help the other healers come up to par, but moreso than anything else, there remains a stigma by people who spout the same silly falsehood that you have here, that there are only 3 healing classes in the game that has yet to be properly expunged and comes only from a place of a lack of education or harmless ignorance to what has actually gone on under the hood of this game throughout its lifespan.

There are 6 healing classes in The Elder Scrolls Online. 3 of them need a bit more help than the others. Full stop. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

exeeter702 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

NB, Sorcerer, & DK are not a healing class.

You know what im actually going to expand on this because comments like this have annoyed me since the day this game went live.

Not only are you wrong, but this isnt even a matter of modern eso. No, in fact, this has never been the case even with the original 4 classes.

There has historically been a subset of players in this game that have falsely believed that Templar, once upon a time, was intentionally designed by ZOS to be the definitive / defacto healer of ESO. This belief generally came from two places, one being that they had a "dedicated healing skill line" (more on this fallacy later) and that all end game optimized groups only ever ran Tamplar in the healer role. Do not confuse these individuals with those who understood the simple truth of the matter that Templar was the optimal healer just as a matter of circumstance, because they absolutely were, but it had nothing to do with implicit design by the developers.

Early on, there were some of us, myself included, that realized objectively that the healing throughput between the 4 classes was actually nearly on par with one another, and this was including templars (and DKs) major mending, with sorc being on lowest end, but not by much. It was not a coincidence or a design oversight that the restoration staffs skill and passive offerings were actually analogous to the templars restoring light skill line. This design approach was the case then and remains the case today, many of the universally available skills functioned as alternatives to class skills, not exclusively as supplements or empowerments. Its for this reason alone that Restoring lights passive did little to bolster the restoration staff and vice versa and why many of the restoring light skills were regularly omitted in place of the more reliable and practical restoration skills that occupied the same application space in group play. It was simply a matter of templar being in a unique position that if they desired it, they could fill the healer role without having to rely as much on the restoration staff where the other classes leaned more heavily on it. There was an actual argument for breath of life vs healing ward for some non templar healer builds, namely NBs who at the time had unmatched HOT values and made excellent use of healing ward's health buffer effect while the hots did their work but I digress, optimized end game groups back then didnt use either in pve, PVP was another story.

It was never about the restoring light skill line. It had everything to do with Templars exclusive possession of a critical utility in giving stamina back to group members, tanks particularly. No other class could provide this and no DPS templar would commit to slotting it without taking a dps hit. Then when undaunted was added, templar having a reliable other synergy (purifying ritual) allowed groups to gain more from the undaunted passive. The irony ultimately being that the key factor that made templar the best fit in the healer role was a skill that was not present in the restoring light skill line.

Fast forward to around DB/TG updates, and you began to see adjustments made to the other classes to help them in the healing role, things like NB getting (at the time) the strongest single target hot in the game, sorc getting a burst heal by way of a matriarch change and DKs getting cauterize and obsidian shard burst heal, design issues not withstanding, anyone keenly in tune with the games design philosophy understood exactly what place these changes were coming from.

Leading up to Morrowinds release, Rich stated in an ESO live about a design shift moving forward, starting with the wardens skill lines, that better, more clearly defines each of the roles as they are reflected in the 3 skill lines (we see this approach repeated with the necro) wherein their goal was to communicate to newer players how they can achieve healing or tanking by looking at the skill lines in question, it was much more streamlined and compartmentalized. You see, with the initial class (less so with templar ofc) it was not as immediately obvious how said classes accomplish healing as many of the aspects that enable them as healers are buried in passives and morphs across all 3 skill lines eg. Nightblade gaining healing done by slotting siphoning skills, funnel health ally healing being behind a morph, utility healing like refreshing path behind a morph AND in a skill line that also contains key tanking and damage dealing utilities. It was more intricate and involved and required a minor degree of class knowledge that went slightly beyond the surface. They wanted to shift away from this according to Rich.

Of course it came as no surprise (to me at least) when morrowind patch notes dropped and it was revealed that orbs would became an analogous skill to templars shards (sound familiar?). Templars were outraged by this change, as they felt it reduced a key identity to the class, a semi fair criticism but ultimately the bigger picture was more important. Templars having a monopoly on such a key utility would ensure no other class ever could occupy the role. They made this change for that reason alone. There was an argument to be made regarding shards vs orbs, along the lines of application range vs speed - shards could only be used by one group member per GCD, orbs also once per GCD cast but you could send out multiple reaching more group members while you return to healing. Regardless, no amount of DSA resto staffs and sentinel of rkugamzs passed around was ever going to challenge shards synergy utility.

Ever since then, changes have been made periodically to the game (for better or worse) that help the other healers come up to par, but moreso than anything else, there remains a stigma by people who spout the same silly falsehood that you have here, that there are only 3 healing classes in the game that has yet to be properly expunged and comes only from a place of a lack of education or harmless ignorance to what has actually gone on under the hood of this game throughout its lifespan.

There are 6 healing classes in The Elder Scrolls Online. 3 of them need a bit more help than the others. Full stop. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Admittedly I'm not going to read all that

And the cycle repeats lol.. like clockwork. Maybe dont comment on subjects you dont understand then. Thanks.