Propositions to make objective modes better

buzzclops · October 2023

I have played probably thousands of bgs over the years. Nothing has changed really. I find myself to be that deathmatch every game player sometimes. Mostly due to some of the modes being very poorly designed and not engaging. But I usually like objective modes in pvp!

Deathmatch:
pretty straight forward I wouldn’t change much outside of maybe reworking the medals to reward more actions especially support ones.

Chaosball:
having the ball should cap your speed at base 100%. You should position to play with your team not run around and avoid fights. It should be strategic around choke points and playing as a team. Would also reduce a LOT of cheesing.

Capture the relic:
Not badly designed! I actually like this one a lot. I’d bring back the sigils in this one to add variety as it’s a mode where you get the most spread out usually and it would make things interesting.

Flag games domination and crazy king:
Now this is where everything goes south. I have two solutions to these.

1. Make capping flags a bashable cast like getting relics. It’s insane that you can just stand there and outnumber your enemies and get the flag. That completely removes any strategy of leaving a sneak character or tank behind to secure a flag for your team. It promotes just running and avoiding combat. I think this would add a lot of depth to how players would play this mode.

2. Remove 1 flag active at all times. There is just too many flags and there’s always empty spots to rotate and avoid fighting. Domination should be a king of the hill type of game. You should stand your ground and dominate areas to make points.

Lastly, better rewards across the board for battleground wins. It is so outdated it’s outrageous. Maybe add a currency or something that can be traded for materials or something. Battleground memorabilia could be used to buy alchemy mats for example.

CameraBeardThePirate · October 2023

buzzclops wrote: »

1. Make capping flags a bashable cast like getting relics. It’s insane that you can just stand there outnumbered and get the flag. That completely removes any strategy of leaving a sneak character or tank behind to secure a flag for your team. It promotes just running and avoiding combat. I think this would add a lot of depth to how players would play this mode.

This is incorrect. You cannot cap a flag outnumbered; whichever team has the most players standing on the flag caps it. It's one of the reasons I laugh so hard at blocktanks that stand there doing nothing. You can just squat two people on the flag and cap it out from under them.

That's not to say there aren't issues with the flag modes though - the vast majority of flag maps are too big and have too many flags. Flags should ideally be capped at 3 zones in either game mode to force people into engagements more.

buzzclops · October 2023

English is not my first language sorry. But I meant that you can’t cap it while outnumbered. I edited

CameraBeardThePirate · October 2023

No worries about the typo.

I personally don't think you should be able to cap it outnumbered. You can't cap outnumbered in most King of the Hill/Domination/Zone Capture game modes (at least none that I can think of).

In fact, most require you to kill any enemy on the point before you can capture it - although with the third team and a high time to kill I don't think that would function well in ESO.

buzzclops · October 2023

I think we both agree on the same concept. I might have trouble expressing it properly.

By outnumbered I mean someone could use the brawl chaos and ninja cap it like a relic (world of Warcraft comes to mind) and then defend it until death or wait for help.

A group of 2 could hold it long enough vs 4 and you’d have to wipe them and then cap it completely.

I don’t like that a bigger group can just stand there and heal and cap it while the smaller group is better off deserting and going elsewhere. It creates situations where sometimes even dying for a quick rez is a better strategy than fighting… I’ve seen it …

We don’t have cc mechanics like wow but I think it would still be better with a cast time then just a numbers game.

OBJnoob · October 2023

I like most of these suggestions. I agree with Camera though that a lesser number shouldn't be able to cap against a higher number. That'd require a redesign of the whole flag flipping mechanic. Just standing next to it is a good enough design I don't see why it should change. Some of the strategy of flag games is in being in multiple spots at once. A fast team of 4 can totally run in circles around the map capping 1 flag at a time if they want to, and they might even win this way if the other two teams are involved enough with eachother. But often times holding 1 flag isn't enough to win you the game. If you see a group of 4 then you know they aren't anywhere else. You can either delay their rotation by trying to kite and fight outnumbered or you can just go somewhere else. Or you can just wait until they leave and flip it back. There's no shortage of answers to this problem, and most of them are highly dependant on what the score is, how the other teams are playing, and how many enemies you dare face at once. It's best to remain fluid in my experience.

gariondavey · October 2023

Your flag flipping mechanic sounds like arathi basin/eye of the storm from from wow/wow tbc.
In terms of flag games, I liked how those functioned so not a bad suggestion in my opinion.
As for capture the relic, and also with the flag games, I really wish they'd be 2 team instead of 3. Warsong gulch in wow was such a fun battleground. I played hundreds and hundreds of games of that over the 4 or so years I played wow (2007 to 2011 on live, 2012 to 2015 on a private tbc server).
I miss objective games like those as they were well designed. Much better so than eso objective modes. I prefer deathmatch in the end, as those are very similar to arenas in wow, which I played a ton of as well. But wow bgs back in the day were awesome and I wish eso objective modes were more like them.

OBJnoob · October 2023

How did flags flip in Arathi Basin? I don't remember.

I binged Arathi and Warsong pretty hardcore. I had a Prot Pally geared towards damage... Prolly got the Ironman achievement twice a day (capping 3 times without dying, if memory serves.) What can I say? I'm an OBJ noob. I remember occasionally heckling my teammates to help out with the flags because some people just wanted to hang out in the big middle area getting HKs. But there certainly wasn't a rift between the two player-types like there is here.

I think that's because arenas existed in WoW. I think if something similar existed here we'd be fine too. I don't remember there being a Deathmatch BG in WoW... Was there?

Anyway... I like the 3 teams thing. It's different. I don't want this game to be more like WoW... I'd go play WoW if that's how I felt.

This game just needs some ranked DM/duel/arena type thing and pretty much everyone would be happy and have a place. Little adjustments could still take place to make the OBJ modes better, but I don't think any of them are really going to satisfy the people that don't like them.

buzzclops · October 2023

In wow it’s a 10 secs cast! Interrupted by any dmg.

I wouldn’t mind keeping the mechanic as is. Maybe solution 2 then and have less flags.

OR solution 3. Double resurrection timer to 1 mins. Make dying more punishing in land grabs. Because as it stand you can just die and rez and make more points faster. The arena map is a good example of that. It’s way too big.