【Undaunted event impression】Why ZOS can't explain "dungeon mech" through the story main quest?

AvalonRanger · September 2023

【Undaunted event impression】Why ZOS can't explain "dungeon mech" through the story main quest?

"First visit here." "First attempting here."

Each time hearing those comment at the group chat, then we must explain about the mech.

Why players of ESO say like this? Because, most of new dungeon mech and "UI sign" will not explain in the main story quest.
We need to learn dungeon mech at the third party site or ESO Youtuber movie before playing new dungeon
especially for the veteran dungeon.

But this is very unnatural game flow. Not sophisticated game design at all.

9yeas from 2014, the ESO is still just like this.
ZOS dungeon game design is still terrible, ZOS...ZOS never changes.

rabidmyers · September 2023

you learn about dungeon mech's by doing the dungeon and learning by trial of error, this is something everyone has to do, especially with new dungeons. this is the natural game flow

no third party site or youtube required

Soarora · September 2023

Every dungeon has mostly different mechanics. If all mechanics were reused, then the content would be boring. You don’t need guide videos, I’ve rarely ever watched them. I do new dungeons on PTS before the guides and addons… death recaps give hints to the mechanics. That’s your tutorial, the death recap hints.

Blood_again · September 2023

Game is teaching players in dungeon with attack markings and NPC words.
Every attack that requires interruption or blocking is carefully marked with special effects. Player learns blocking, interrupting, breaking free and exploiting an off-balance state in the basic tutorial.
Most of the mechanics that require special actions are told by a boss or an attendant NPC. More than that, the places of the mechanics are visually marked.
If players take the NPC speeches as something more than an annoying noise, it takes just a few tries to figure most of the mechanics without any guides. Just listen and look around. Normal mode is specialized for learning players, it usually forgives many mistakes.

Anyway I think that players need additional ingame guide for group content. Not for the specific dungeon mechanics, but for group play basics.
What means tank, healer and dd? How taunt and healing works? How to ressurect another player? How to write in a group chat? How to invite to group and leave the group?
Many newcomers are just helpless in their first group dungeon without this. Simple training from, let's say, Undaunted guys would help them a lot.

Jaimeh · September 2023

You learn by doing, and half the fun is figuring out how a fight works, why should the game spoon feed players? Besides, in a lot of fights that might have a more intricate mechanic there is usually an area before that shows you how the mechanic works (like the laser corridor before the laser boss in Frostvault for example), and also sometimes the NPCs give clues about what to do in a fight in their dialogues as well. Now I absolutely think the game should so a better job about teaching combat to new players, but mechanics should be left to the players to figure out, that's part of exploring the dungeon or trial.

Dagoth_Rac · September 2023

Divath Fyr in Halls of Fabrication doesn't just call out the mechanics, he essentially trash talks you for not doing them!

endgamesmug · September 2023

I agree with the above the best part is just going in and picking things up on the fly, the whole reason i enjoy combat in dungeons is you have to think on your feet or youre dead kinda like pvp. Blocking, healing, interrupting, rolldodging while maintaining a rotation all vital.

Jaimeh · September 2023

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Divath Fyr in Halls of Fabrication doesn't just call out the mechanics, he essentially trash talks you for not doing them!

Haha, that was exactly the NPC/instance I had in mind

jaws343 · September 2023

Soarora wrote: »

Every dungeon has mostly different mechanics. If all mechanics were reused, then the content would be boring. You don’t need guide videos, I’ve rarely ever watched them. I do new dungeons on PTS before the guides and addons… death recaps give hints to the mechanics. That’s your tutorial, the death recap hints.

Not only that, but often many of the enemies leading up to a boss give you a preview of the next bosses mechanics.

AvalonRanger · September 2023

Well, most of PUG team dislike "deep searching" including Vet. Especially PUG damage Dealer
hate those activity. They always treat "tank" just like the tour guide. They mostly say...

" I just want to walk through here. Just go" Then, wiped by first lethal AoE within brink an eye.

Personally, if I have enough time for that, I want to dig up every secret boss with spending
lots of time. But that's almost impossible with PUG people. They just want super tough tank
or real healer to finish the Vet pledge as first as they can.

And actually say, I'm also busy man. Unfortunately, there're not much time for exploring of just daily
farming mission.

Soarora · September 2023

jaws343 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Every dungeon has mostly different mechanics. If all mechanics were reused, then the content would be boring. You don’t need guide videos, I’ve rarely ever watched them. I do new dungeons on PTS before the guides and addons… death recaps give hints to the mechanics. That’s your tutorial, the death recap hints.

Not only that, but often many of the enemies leading up to a boss give you a preview of the next bosses mechanics.

Yeah. I also forgot the NPCs who yell mechanics, which happens often too.

fizl101 · September 2023

Soarora wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Every dungeon has mostly different mechanics. If all mechanics were reused, then the content would be boring. You don’t need guide videos, I’ve rarely ever watched them. I do new dungeons on PTS before the guides and addons… death recaps give hints to the mechanics. That’s your tutorial, the death recap hints.

Not only that, but often many of the enemies leading up to a boss give you a preview of the next bosses mechanics.

Yeah. I also forgot the NPCs who yell mechanics, which happens often too.

Yep - I tell training groups for trials to turn on their audio and subtitles to pick up mechanics cues

AvalonRanger · September 2023

There're funny story.
... Actually , it's not funny. It very annoyed me.

One day I met CP500 degree PUG-DD at the DLC Vet pledge
who doesn't have any of normal DLC experience. That DD died many times,
because doesn't have basic knowledge of normal DLC dungeon. But more astonish happening is
he push the "hard mode button" of DLC dungeon twice. Then couldn't survive just 30sec and instant death twice.
Then he said like this...

"Anyone know the mech?"

....Everyone said "YOU MUST PLAY NORMAL DUNGEON BEFORE DOING THIS!".

Well, ESO is not beginner friendly game or just bad game flow design as action MMO game.
There're no pre-training zone through the solo overland contents for the DLC dungeon design.

jaws343 · September 2023

AvalonRanger wrote: »

There're funny story.
... Actually , it's not funny. It very annoyed me.

One day I met CP500 degree PUG-DD at the DLC Vet pledge
who doesn't have any of normal DLC experience. That DD died many times,
because doesn't have basic knowledge of normal DLC dungeon. But more astonish happening is
he push the "hard mode button" of DLC dungeon twice. Then couldn't survive just 30sec and instant death twice.
Then he said like this...

"Anyone know the mech?"

....Everyone said "YOU MUST PLAY NORMAL DUNGEON BEFORE DOING THIS!".

Well, ESO is not beginner friendly game or just bad game flow design as action MMO game.
There're no pre-training zone through the solo overland contents for the DLC dungeon design.

Orrrr, dungeons, especially DLC and Vet, are end game content, and not meant to be beginner friendly. Not everything in the game needs to be beginner friendly because not everything is meant for beginners. A game built entirely of beginner friendly content would be atrocious.

AvalonRanger · September 2023

jaws343 wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

There're funny story.
... Actually , it's not funny. It very annoyed me.

One day I met CP500 degree PUG-DD at the DLC Vet pledge
who doesn't have any of normal DLC experience. That DD died many times,
because doesn't have basic knowledge of normal DLC dungeon. But more astonish happening is
he push the "hard mode button" of DLC dungeon twice. Then couldn't survive just 30sec and instant death twice.
Then he said like this...

"Anyone know the mech?"

....Everyone said "YOU MUST PLAY NORMAL DUNGEON BEFORE DOING THIS!".

Well, ESO is not beginner friendly game or just bad game flow design as action MMO game.
There're no pre-training zone through the solo overland contents for the DLC dungeon design.

Orrrr, dungeons, especially DLC and Vet, are end game content, and not meant to be beginner friendly. Not everything in the game needs to be beginner friendly because not everything is meant for beginners. A game built entirely of beginner friendly content would be atrocious.

A game built entirely of beginner friendly content would be atrocious

Not kind of meaning.
ZOS must tell against beginner "What veteran dungeon is" before they do those nonsense with decent game flow design.

So, ZOS is always 5/10 developer.
ESO is Great ElderScrolls experience(10/10) with nonsense game design(negative 5 point).

Well, each time visiting "Harrowstorms" then I hear funny chat comment always.

"Please destroy the Pike!!" ESO never changes from 2014. Hope U40 will fix those nonsense.

Muizer · September 2023

Problem is not a lack of training. As has been pointed out, it really should be possible to learn just by playing.

The problem is groups with people of widely differing experience levels and aims happen a lot. Maybe new group finder will help.

SeaGtGruff · September 2023

Blood_again wrote: »

How to ressurect another player?

I need instructions on how to resurrect other players in Cyrodiil. Most of the time I can't even get a prompt for interacting with them, no matter how I move and turn this way and that. And then when I finally do get a prompt for interacting with them, I end up inviting them to Tales of Tribute match. Every. Single. Time.

AvalonRanger · September 2023

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Blood_again wrote: »

How to ressurect another player?

I need instructions on how to resurrect other players in Cyrodiil. Most of the time I can't even get a prompt for interacting with them, no matter how I move and turn this way and that. And then when I finally do get a prompt for interacting with them, I end up inviting them to Tales of Tribute match. Every. Single. Time.

It's a same way like the main land. I revived my alliance people many times.
Couldn't you do that?

AvalonRanger · September 2023

There're one more crazy episode of undaunted event...

One day, we were doing normal "FrostVault" pledge.
And, we've reached the last boss room.

The big robot shows up. Well, I've seen this scene tremendous times.
Then...something horrible accident happened...

Our PUG 3 people suddenly run against end of the corridor, and wiped by lethal zone.
Just 5 second after the combat starting!! They jumped in lethal zone without any of hesitate.

I said " What the hell you doing guys!?"

They said like this, "Sorry we visit here first time."

I saw same accident at the "Coral Aerie" last boss area.
I'm carrying 3PUG less experience players at there, and those people
jumped in the water without any of hesitate. Then wiped.

They might be bit careless players. But I thought that they were NOT stupid.

Just couldn't notice about lethal UI sign.

Consider those nonsense acting from game visual design view point,
they were acting very natural. There're not much dangerous lethal sign in there.
There're NO "hyper laser", or "huge fire", or dangerous looking thunder?, or poison field?
But, just unremarkable thin "red" overlapped color. Even just water in the Coral Aerie.

See? ZOS. This is "cognition failure" which is made by extremely bad game design of ZOS.

On the Contrary, the lava river of "City of Ash2" is quite "comfortable temperature"

,
so we can swim cross the lava river

, and skip part of level design which you made.
But, people can't do same logic in the other place. This is almost "BUG".

I hope that ZOS rethink their game design sense, and re-educate themselves,
and make more reasonable dungeon design in the future DLC.

Seriously, very please.

Necrotech_Master · September 2023

over this event i did plenty of DLC dungeons and never had issues with people not understanding mechs

i did have a few problems with speedsters though

if people dont know mechs and need the important ones mentioned, i have no problem doing that

there are also plenty of dungeons where the mechs are briefly shown during encounters (unhallowed grave the spots where you use the sigil on the ground and the statue walks over to it is a direct "training" for the kiln boss, moongrave fane has the sliding stones which are used as a mechanic in the kuthro ketha boss and on the final boss, fang lair has the spots where you need to kill summoning crystals to open doors, which is a direct relation to mechanic in the final boss)