This is the perfect time to add a currency exchange to the crown store

Lags · September 2023

Take note of what some other mmos do, like gw2, and add in a currency exchange. This is clearly a disaster, but at least if you did this something good could come from this mess. And it would literally be the same situation where some people want to spend gold, and others want to spend money. The only difference is it will be controlled and stable.

Its just a simple tab on the crown store that allows players to exchange gold for crowns, and even crowns for gold, at a somewhat stable price. This solves everything. If i have a lot of gold from what i do in game, i can then take that gold and buy crowns with it on the store. And on the other hand, if i dont have the time to farm gold i can buy crowns and exchange them for gold. Others have asked for this, and i cant imagine why you havent done this. This ridiculous gifting system has led to this mess. A system that has seen countless players scammed over the years.

Really the only problem i can see from such a system is zenimax driving up the prices. But if you stuck to a reasonable price, based on the platforms economy, considering what people normally sold them for in the past, it could be fine.

fizzylu · September 2023

Yeah, as a GW2 player, I've been wanting this for awhile in ESO. I always didn't like having to trade gold for crowns with some stranger. The fluctuation in price when something new drops is also kind of nonsense.

Gray_howling_parrot · September 2023

Yes, for the love of god, add an actual QOL feature to the game rather than what we got in U39. This would be huge

XSTRONG · September 2023

Seller set price, if you dont want to pay it then sh+t up and go on

Steel_Heart777 · September 2023

@ZOS Please for the love of god put in an option to buy from crown store directly with gold. Seriously guys, what the hell? I understand there's scammers but I've been successfully buying TONS of crown store stuff from guild mates for YEARS. I've been collecting every single style page and unless you implement buy for gold or revert this that's the end of my collecting. Huge bummer guys.

Lags · September 2023

XSTRONG wrote: »

Seller set price, if you dont want to pay it then sh+t up and go on

No they dont, if people dont want to pay what you're asking then you will be the one shutting up and moving on. Prices are different depending on who you buy from. But i guess you wont be selling anything for the foreseeable future anyway

also this has nothing to do with what im talking about. The only reason i would imagine you would say this is because you're a crown seller and you think an exchange would be bad for you. It would not.

XSTRONG · September 2023

Lags wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Seller set price, if you dont want to pay it then sh+t up and go on

No they dont, if people dont want to pay what you're asking then you will be the one shutting up and moving on. Prices are different depending on who you buy from. But i guess you wont be selling anything for the foreseeable future anyway

also this has nothing to do with what im talking about. The only reason i would imagine you would say this is because you're a crown seller and you think an exchange would be bad for you. It would not.

Lol believe it or not, if a player sells 5000 crowns player that selling those crowns choose what price he want to sell them for.

If he want x gold and you think its to expensive then move on and maybe try earn some rl money yourself

Seller always decides the price even if 1 out of ten buy his crowns.

rauyran · September 2023

I think you are missing the point that crowns are income for ZOS. No-one can get crowns without paying ZOS. Making them purchasable with gold means ZOS loses income.

Gray_howling_parrot · September 2023

XSTRONG wrote: »

Seller set price, if you dont want to pay it then sh+t up and go on

I like the way the WoW token works. It shouldn't be listed like a guild trader. You should be able to buy x amount of crowns based on supply, demand and economy on each platform/server. More people purchasing crowns and giving them to the in-game NPC? Less valuable they are and vice versa. It'd have to be a server-by-server basis to account for player inflation/economy inflation

Gray_howling_parrot · September 2023

rauyran wrote: »

I think you are missing the point that crowns are income for ZOS. No-one can get crowns without paying ZOS. Making them purchasable with gold means ZOS loses income.

I think you're missing the point here. The argument is that this never goes away - just like crowns are sold now, theres no current middle man for the crown to gold conversion, which lends itself to a lot of scams. The game needs ZOS to implement an in-game merchant, so that ZOS is the middle man and there is no scamming or fraudulent activity.

rauyran · September 2023

Jaustink wrote: »

rauyran wrote: »

I think you are missing the point that crowns are income for ZOS. No-one can get crowns without paying ZOS. Making them purchasable with gold means ZOS loses income.

I think you're missing the point here. The argument is that this never goes away - just like crowns are sold now, theres no current middle man for the crown to gold conversion, which lends itself to a lot of scams. The game needs ZOS to implement an in-game merchant, so that ZOS is the middle man and there is no scamming or fraudulent activity.

No-one give two hoots about trading gold for crowns. That's not where the fraud is. In game trading is irrelevant.

ZOS shut this down because they are seeing actual financial fraud being committed via the crown store.

Tandor · September 2023

Jaustink wrote: »

rauyran wrote: »

I think you are missing the point that crowns are income for ZOS. No-one can get crowns without paying ZOS. Making them purchasable with gold means ZOS loses income.

I think you're missing the point here. The argument is that this never goes away - just like crowns are sold now, theres no current middle man for the crown to gold conversion, which lends itself to a lot of scams. The game needs ZOS to implement an in-game merchant, so that ZOS is the middle man and there is no scamming or fraudulent activity.

Or they could just prohibit any form of crown/gold conversion, and enforce it strictly on both parties, buyers and sellers. There's no reason why a comparatively few mega-rich traders should be able to access the Crown Store through the back door.

Lags · September 2023

rauyran wrote: »

I think you are missing the point that crowns are income for ZOS. No-one can get crowns without paying ZOS. Making them purchasable with gold means ZOS loses income.

I think you're the one missing the point, and maybe you just dont understand how a system like this works. And thats fine, not everyone has played mmos with an exchange. The point is, when I want to spend gold, and only gold, and you want to spend money, and only money, then these things are going to happen regardless.

Let me put it another way. The people who want to exchange MONEY for GOLD will still be there. And the people who want to exchange GOLD for MONEY will also still be there. An exchange just cuts out those 2 people meeting. There is no need to search for crown sellers, or buyers, because its there. So no, zos will not lose income. If anything they will gain income. Those of us who dont spend money on this game will still not be spending money, and those of you who want to exchange your money for crowns to turn those crowns into gold will still be doing.

Maybe ill post a picture of how gw2's exchange works at some point, because its a pretty solid example. But to desrcibe it, crowns can be exchanged for gold, and gold can be exchanged for crowns, to put it simply.

here

Jaimeh · September 2023

Lags wrote: »

Let me put it another way. The people who want to exchange MONEY for GOLD will still be there. And the people who want to exchange GOLD for MONEY will also still be there. An exchange just cuts out those 2 people meeting. There is no need to search for crown sellers, or buyers, because its there. So no, zos will not lose income. If anything they will gain income. Those of us who dont spend money on this game will still not be spending money, and those of you who want to exchange your money for crowns to turn those crowns into gold will still be doing.

Not necessarily; I can see people having lots of gold and wanting to trade it, but being hesitant of the current system (crown gifting) either because it has the potential for fraud (and since ZOS never officially condoned it, it was difficult to sort any cases of someone getting ripped off) or because they didn't want to bother with the whole process of finding a crown seller and getting a trade, etc., and so they preferred to be safe and get things with crowns instead. If there was an in-game system to buy things with gold, these people would be more likely to use it to get stuff with their gold instead of crowns, and in those cases it would be a loss of revenue for ZOS. I'd personally welcome such a system but it will definitely tip the balance of how players would interact with the store.

Lags · September 2023

XSTRONG wrote: »

Lags wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Seller set price, if you dont want to pay it then sh+t up and go on

No they dont, if people dont want to pay what you're asking then you will be the one shutting up and moving on. Prices are different depending on who you buy from. But i guess you wont be selling anything for the foreseeable future anyway

also this has nothing to do with what im talking about. The only reason i would imagine you would say this is because you're a crown seller and you think an exchange would be bad for you. It would not.

Lol believe it or not, if a player sells 5000 crowns player that selling those crowns choose what price he want to sell them for.

If he want x gold and you think its to expensive then move on and maybe try earn some rl money yourself

Seller always decides the price even if 1 out of ten buy his crowns.

oh my. Believe it or not, if you charge 100k per crown then no one is going to buy them. Just as you can set the price, buyers can decline the price. And usually people will negotiate. Just like countless times i thought prices were too high and went to someone else. I dont know how you dont understand how this works both ways.

But ill say it again, this is not the point of this thread. Idk why you're coming in here to spew random nonsense. Im sure you're beside yourself that you cant sell crowns right now, but dont worry because im sure it will come back in a year or two.

Or better yet, if they add an exchange you're be able to funnel all you're money to zenimax, for your precious gold, without even having to speak to another player. Personally i dont like giving my money to zenimax these days, i dont think they deserve it. But if you do then good for you.

Gray_howling_parrot · September 2023

rauyran wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

rauyran wrote: »

I think you are missing the point that crowns are income for ZOS. No-one can get crowns without paying ZOS. Making them purchasable with gold means ZOS loses income.

I think you're missing the point here. The argument is that this never goes away - just like crowns are sold now, theres no current middle man for the crown to gold conversion, which lends itself to a lot of scams. The game needs ZOS to implement an in-game merchant, so that ZOS is the middle man and there is no scamming or fraudulent activity.

No-one give two hoots about trading gold for crowns. That's not where the fraud is. In game trading is irrelevant.

ZOS shut this down because they are seeing actual financial fraud being committed via the crown store.

Thats not what I said lol never said they shut it down for that reason. Im saying that'd be great if they could do that in the mean time.

Lags · September 2023

Jaimeh wrote: »

Lags wrote: »

Let me put it another way. The people who want to exchange MONEY for GOLD will still be there. And the people who want to exchange GOLD for MONEY will also still be there. An exchange just cuts out those 2 people meeting. There is no need to search for crown sellers, or buyers, because its there. So no, zos will not lose income. If anything they will gain income. Those of us who dont spend money on this game will still not be spending money, and those of you who want to exchange your money for crowns to turn those crowns into gold will still be doing.

Not necessarily; I can see people having lots of gold and wanting to trade it, but being hesitant of the current system (crown gifting) either because it has the potential for fraud (and since ZOS never officially condoned it, it was difficult to sort any cases of someone getting ripped off) or because they didn't want to bother with the whole process of finding a crown seller and getting a trade, etc., and so they preferred to be safe and get things with crowns instead. If there was an in-game system to buy things with gold, these people would be more likely to use it to get stuff with their gold instead of crowns, and in those cases it would be a loss of revenue for ZOS. I'd personally welcome such a system but it will definitely tip the balance of how players would interact with the store.

I think thats a very big reach, and while i appreciate you looking at it from the other side i just dont think its an accurate concern. I think the amount of people who would fit into that category would be extremely small. There were crown selling discords and many guilds that would back up sales. And people with a ton of gold tend to know these things, because it is part of the economy. And the people who sell crowns, well clearly they dont want to exchange their gold for crowns, they want to get gold for god knows what.

Plus even if that was something to worry about, it works both ways. What if i always wanted to have a lot of gold to finish every motif in the game, or stack materials, or test builds, or just take a bath in it, and i also wanted to spend IRL money to do this, but i was too afraid to sell crowns because of the same reasons you listed. If there was an exchange i could just turn my money in to gold whenever i wanted, without dealing with a third party at all, with however much money i wanted to use.

Idk, i dont think these things are a valid concern. I think that there will always be small outliers, but i think overall it would remain pretty much the same. I mean saying zos might gain income is just as true as saying they might lose income, so i get the point on that end. But i honestly think it would remain somewhat similar to what it is now, except that things would extremely more convenient for most players.

On another note, even though they didnt condone it, didnt zos say it was fine to do? Maybe thats not officially condoning it, but its pretty damn close. Also, they 100% banned people for scamming with crown sales.

Lags · September 2023

Tandor wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

rauyran wrote: »

I think you are missing the point that crowns are income for ZOS. No-one can get crowns without paying ZOS. Making them purchasable with gold means ZOS loses income.

I think you're missing the point here. The argument is that this never goes away - just like crowns are sold now, theres no current middle man for the crown to gold conversion, which lends itself to a lot of scams. The game needs ZOS to implement an in-game merchant, so that ZOS is the middle man and there is no scamming or fraudulent activity.

Or they could just prohibit any form of crown/gold conversion, and enforce it strictly on both parties, buyers and sellers. There's no reason why a comparatively few mega-rich traders should be able to access the Crown Store through the back door.

This is an argument had many many times in gaming. Spending time vs spending money. Personally, i think if it becomes p2w, like in gear score games like bdo, then trading money for gold has no place. But in games like this i dont see the issue. Who does it hurt that people who made a lot of gold can buy things off the crown store? Even though some people dont care, many people care about cosmetics. People like nice things. And unfortunately most of those nice things are locked behind rng crates with abysmal odds.

But for example, person A has a lot of IRL money but not much gold. Person B has a lot of gold, but not much IRL money. Why cant those people help each other?

But this is why an exchange is better. Because then everyone can have access to the nice things they want on the crown store, without risk or trouble. Id be curious to hear from someone who has a lot of time in an mmo with an exchange, but also thinks its a bad idea, and their reasoning. Just out of morbid curiosity.

Amottica · September 2023

I agree that a crown exchange would make more sense than the current design.

Zenimax has blessed trading gold for crown store items in a manner that is wide open for scamming with a dash of exploiting. It is not only obvious but they are fully aware that these shenanigans exist.

Cut out the middleman and scammers and create a simple system that handles and fosters the trades.

wilykcat · September 2023

I like the currency exchange system in guild wars 2 so let's make it happen in Elderscrolls too.

majulook · September 2023

ZOS should never had allowed for gifting with out a built in game buy Crowns for Gold from player interface. Maybe something similar to a Guild Trader. But this GW2 interface thing would work.

darvaria · September 2023

OP has a great idea. I was never 100% on board with that "gifting", even though I did it.

Let me just bag my "bag of gold" with crowns!

Lags · September 2023

Amottica wrote: »

I agree that a crown exchange would make more sense than the current design.

Zenimax has blessed trading gold for crown store items in a manner that is wide open for scamming with a dash of exploiting. It is not only obvious but they are fully aware that these shenanigans exist.

Cut out the middleman and scammers and create a simple system that handles and fosters the trades.

I mean even before this issue they had people scamming others. I know they banned some people for scamming when it would happen, but still. I really look at some systems in other games, like the currency exchange, and wonder why zos has never implemented it. But like i said, now that this has happened its the perfect time.

Im guessing the fraud they're talking about is people buying crown items for cheaper prices somehow (ive heard that crowns may be cheaper in some countries) and then selling them to people to turn a profit, while still being cheaper than the crown store. I've heard from people on all platforms that it happens, so it was very confusing to me that zos first started with pc crates, then console crates, and now just removing gifting all together. I guess they hoped to fix it before resorting to this.

My point here, is that the system seems to be flawed. Idk how many years it will take them to fix this, but i doubt its fast. Why not try something different.

Rageypoo · September 2023

This is also a perfect time to increase the housing limits too.

Lags · September 2023

Rageypoo wrote: »

This is also a perfect time to increase the housing limits too.

I mean i kind of agree but i cant even log into my house anymore on xbox, so i was forced to move to PC and lose all that time and money. Servers are so bad.

notyuu · September 2023

@ZOS_Kevin Making sure the devs take note of this? it's a damn good idea for solving the crown gifting problem

Danikat · September 2023

I agree that would be the best solution.

But I think they could also get away with something simpler, like a tradable item you can buy on the crown store that can be used to get the same amount of crowns it cost.

Player A buys a 500 crown token - costing 500 crowns
Player A sells it to player B for gold
Player B uses the token and gets 500 crowns

They could have tokens in different values so players can trade the amount of crowns they want.

It's not as efficient as GW2's system, but it achieves the same purpose.

rauyran wrote: »

I think you are missing the point that crowns are income for ZOS. No-one can get crowns without paying ZOS. Making them purchasable with gold means ZOS loses income.

No one can get gems in GW2 without someone paying the company either. The exchange is just the game acting as a middle man to facilitate the trade, you're still buying gems from another player who bought them with real money.

In that sense it's the same as the crown gifting system, the difference is you just use the menu to buy the amount of gold or gems you want instead of having to find another player willing to spend exactly what you want to buy. The gems you get could be part of what 1 player exchanged, or pooled from several, but they've all been paid for at some point.

The exchange rate is dynamic - it changes based on the volume of trade in each direction, so when more people are buying gems it gets more expensive to do that and when more people are converting their gems into gold you start getting less gold for your gems, so it discourages too much trade in one direction (which helps ensure the exchange doesn't run out of either currency).

Lags · September 2023

Danikat wrote: »

I agree that would be the best solution.

But I think they could also get away with something simpler, like a tradable item you can buy on the crown store that can be used to get the same amount of crowns it cost.

Player A buys a 500 crown token - costing 500 crowns
Player A sells it to player B for gold
Player B uses the token and gets 500 crowns

They could have tokens in different values so players can trade the amount of crowns they want.

It's not as efficient as GW2's system, but it achieves the same purpose.

rauyran wrote: »

I think you are missing the point that crowns are income for ZOS. No-one can get crowns without paying ZOS. Making them purchasable with gold means ZOS loses income.

No one can get gems in GW2 without someone paying the company either. The exchange is just the game acting as a middle man to facilitate the trade, you're still buying gems from another player who bought them with real money.

In that sense it's the same as the crown gifting system, the difference is you just use the menu to buy the amount of gold or gems you want instead of having to find another player willing to spend exactly what you want to buy. The gems you get could be part of what 1 player exchanged, or pooled from several, but they've all been paid for at some point.

The exchange rate is dynamic - it changes based on the volume of trade in each direction, so when more people are buying gems it gets more expensive to do that and when more people are converting their gems into gold you start getting less gold for your gems, so it discourages too much trade in one direction (which helps ensure the exchange doesn't run out of either currency).

Thats also a good idea. Personally i think an exchange would be better than something like that, but if they went that route instead that would be alright. I just like the idea of an exchange more because it feels more free. Buy however much of either crowns or gold whenever you want, but that would deff solve the problems as well.

brylars · September 2023

This is from a consumer's point of view. "How is it going to help me."

A corporation is only going to focus on maximizing their profits. If a few buy a product then resell it, a corporation is going to call it stealing and do what it can to cut out the "middle man" and try to incentivize those other customers to buy from them directly. The theory is that if people really want it, they will do what they need to do to get it.

darvaria · September 2023

YES.

darvaria · September 2023

rauyran wrote: »

I think you are missing the point that crowns are income for ZOS. No-one can get crowns without paying ZOS. Making them purchasable with gold means ZOS loses income.

Then crowns should cost the same in every country. I am completely outraged they are selling them for less. WHY??????? If they can't afford the US price, then they can't afford them. Now, selling gold in the crown store would be a win for ZOS. Screw those gold sellers and sell it yourself. Problem would be solved. It's those players (if you even call them players) and we all KNOW exactly where they from causing this problem.