Deadly vs Pillar

nick59349b14_ESO · August 2023

I’m running coral riptide with deadly but I see more people running pillar instead. Just wondering if there’s a big difference and if so, why? I’m running a stam archanist.

MudcrabAttack · August 2023

Probably dummy parses. Pillar has a couple percent higher single target dps, deadly has a whole lot more % AOE dps since the Pillar radius is so tiny

Kisakee · August 2023

Ansuul and the Velothi mythic now buff the damage of Nirn too which results in way more damage, they didn't before U39.

WrathOfInnos · August 2023

I agree that Riptide + Pillar is primarily a dummy parse strategy. Keeping Stamina low enough for Riptide to outperform other sets is risky in difficult content. Riptide also does not work well as a single bar set, which leads players to seek a complimentary set that does. Pillar is great on either front or back bar, while Deadly is ideally worn on body/jewelry (although it can be used just on front bar for a small loss).

There is also the element of Arcanist being unable to use Relequen effectively, resulting in a lack of obvious options. Same for Kinras, Advancing, and Tzogvin, they lose stacks when beaming. You can use Ansuul, but it's not particularly strong and still doesn't work well on a single bar. Even a set like Sul-Xan does not excel on Arcanist because they have so much crit damage already.

In my opinion, the best option for most trial bosses is Perfect Whorl of the Depths (weapon + jewelry to avoid light armor, sometimes sash for 6/1) with Deadly medium armor. The Depths proc reaches a very similar peak to the Coral Riptide weapon damage (both around 8-9% DPS), without playing resource games or requiring the set on both bars. This assumes the tank can keep the boss stationary. Both of these sets can give decent cleave as well, more than Pillar.

I've also been seeing some good numbers out of Whorl + Azureblight, but obviously that is situational based on adds and needs more testing after the patch.

jtm1018 · August 2023

Deadly what?
Full name of your deadly set pls?

UsualSurrender · August 2023

Deadly = Deadly Strike

merpins · August 2023

I use Deadly + Pillars + Velothi on my arcanist cause I don't really run trials often, so I still don't have any of the relatively new trial gear. Hell, I don't even have a full sticker book of Relequen (I'm missing most weapons). I generally only play this game duo with my wife, and we don't really like playing with randoms, let alone 10 other people we barely know, but we can duo any vet dungeon that doesn't have mandatory mechanics for 3+ people.

nick59349b14_ESO · August 2023

Thanks for the feedback. I’m running velothi as well. I’ll try whorl to see how it performs. I have to admit coral is a bit cumbersome to keep at the optimal stamina.

Necrotech_Master · August 2023

my arcanist right now is running deadly + perfected yandir + velothi with a back bar masters bow

i didnt have enough perfected ansuul at the time which is why i went with yandir, though i will say with arcanist its very easy to keep up the yandir stacks while beaming

ill probably still switch to ansuul though after i get a perfected ansuul bow, so theres no downtime on the buff

edit: i use whorl + pillar on my templar which works well, but i do have to say that theres a lot of time pillar can miss due to the proc delay and small area, its easy for npcs to walk out of range before it goes off

El_Borracho · August 2023

nick59349b14_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. I’m running velothi as well. I’ll try whorl to see how it performs. I have to admit coral is a bit cumbersome to keep at the optimal stamina.

You could try running Bahsei's instead of Coral. Can burn the mag down to the level you need to keep with Inspired Scholarship and Fulminating Rune and keep your stamina high for your primary damage attacks. Its a light set, so jewels and weapons on the front bar.

I would avoid Whorl as it needs light attacks to proc which are harder to do with Arcanist, and Velothi makes pointless for damage. Its basically Relequen but harder to proc.

Necrotech_Master · August 2023

El_Borracho wrote: »

nick59349b14_ESO wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. I’m running velothi as well. I’ll try whorl to see how it performs. I have to admit coral is a bit cumbersome to keep at the optimal stamina.

You could try running Bahsei's instead of Coral. Can burn the mag down to the level you need to keep with Inspired Scholarship and Fulminating Rune and keep your stamina high for your primary damage attacks. Its a light set, so jewels and weapons on the front bar.

I would avoid Whorl as it needs light attacks to proc which are harder to do with Arcanist, and Velothi makes pointless for damage. Its basically Relequen but harder to proc.

i like whorl, as i use it on my templar, i could see it working on arcanist too, but only because the proc has like an 18 sec cooldown, so you could proc it and then you could do almost 3 beams before needing to do a light attack again, which would be the minimum needed to make sure your generating ultimate

haelgaan · August 2023

El_Borracho wrote: »

I would avoid Whorl as it needs light attacks to proc which are harder to do with Arcanist, and Velothi makes pointless for damage. Its basically Relequen but harder to proc.

you'd only need one LA hit ever 24 seconds to proc whorl - which you're going to be doing anyway because you want to generate ultimate. whorl is tons easier than relequen to use, and i'd use it in a heartbeat before bahsei - bahsei is another resource minigame, just like coral.

boi_anachronism_ · August 2023

Typically standard is deadly and coral bt for my triple skip prog we run ansuul and deadly for arc, ansuul and pillar for most other dps. Rele is rarely used in content as is is hard to keep up stacks.

El_Borracho · August 2023

@Necrotech_Master and @haelgaan agree you have to toss in a light attack/heavy attack to generate ultimate, but Whorl has been notorious for not proccing the whirlpool ever since its inception. I also agree that Bahsei's is not a great set, but for someone worried about resources when using Coral, its a decent alternative.

I also use Whorl on my templar as its super easy on that build as its a traditional LA weaving DD. An arcanist slotting daggers on the front bar is not a LA build because of the ease the beam can be interrupted. For me, that made Whorl not nearly as effective as it is on a templar. So the question is do you want the occasional Whorl damage or the boost in crit damage you can get by hitting 3 magic skills that you are using anyway.

Coral works very well for me in trials, much better than Whorl, which I originally tried. If Whorl works for other players, great, it doesn't bother me. But its not going to be the same as on a templar

boi_anachronism_ · August 2023

El_Borracho wrote: »

@Necrotech_Master and @haelgaan agree you have to toss in a light attack/heavy attack to generate ultimate, but Whorl has been notorious for not proccing the whirlpool ever since its inception. I also agree that Bahsei's is not a great set, but for someone worried about resources when using Coral, its a decent alternative.

I also use Whorl on my templar as its super easy on that build as its a traditional LA weaving DD. An arcanist slotting daggers on the front bar is not a LA build because of the ease the beam can be interrupted. For me, that made Whorl not nearly as effective as it is on a templar. So the question is do you want the occasional Whorl damage or the boost in crit damage you can get by hitting 3 magic skills that you are using anyway.

Coral works very well for me in trials, much better than Whorl, which I originally tried. If Whorl works for other players, great, it doesn't bother me. But its not going to be the same as on a templar

I despise bahsei as do most folks i know i my endgame guilds. Its a royal pain in the *** for everything from parse to content. I got good at it. Its a very specific balance of having just the right amount of recovery for your build. I still have it for very specific situations but if i can do without i do. The chance of running out of mag in execute or high mag use situations like self shielding or healing in portals is a risk id just rather not take. Your options become phenomenal dps loss or an inability to sustain..

El_Borracho · August 2023

@boi_anachronism_ totally understand, but I'm talking about stamina arcanists. If magicka is your lower resource, it will be used for Fulminating Rune while your stamina is used for beam and flail. Magicka is the only resource used for Inspired Scholarship. Unless you are running Cruxweaver Armor (which I will is more damage heavy fights), which also uses magicka, those are the only skills that need magicka on a stamina arcanist. All the execute situations you are talking about will run off the stamina pool.

Obviously, you could run Bahsei's on a magicka build, but I'm with you there. I hated that set on magicka DDs. I do like Coral, even though it is similar, because you only have to run your stamina pool down to 33% for maximum effectiveness.

boi_anachronism_ · August 2023

El_Borracho wrote: »

@boi_anachronism_ totally understand, but I'm talking about stamina arcanists. If magicka is your lower resource, it will be used for Fulminating Rune while your stamina is used for beam and flail. Magicka is the only resource used for Inspired Scholarship. Unless you are running Cruxweaver Armor (which I will is more damage heavy fights), which also uses magicka, those are the only skills that need magicka on a stamina arcanist. All the execute situations you are talking about will run off the stamina pool.

Obviously, you could run Bahsei's on a magicka build, but I'm with you there. I hated that set on magicka DDs. I do like Coral, even though it is similar, because you only have to run your stamina pool down to 33% for maximum effectiveness.

Because that actually makes it very difficult to keep your mag low. Those skills have high uptimes including cruxweaver. You would have to overcast then to mag dump which would take dps away since those are spots you could use flail, generate crux have more beams.

El_Borracho · August 2023

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

@boi_anachronism_ totally understand, but I'm talking about stamina arcanists. If magicka is your lower resource, it will be used for Fulminating Rune while your stamina is used for beam and flail. Magicka is the only resource used for Inspired Scholarship. Unless you are running Cruxweaver Armor (which I will is more damage heavy fights), which also uses magicka, those are the only skills that need magicka on a stamina arcanist. All the execute situations you are talking about will run off the stamina pool.

Obviously, you could run Bahsei's on a magicka build, but I'm with you there. I hated that set on magicka DDs. I do like Coral, even though it is similar, because you only have to run your stamina pool down to 33% for maximum effectiveness.

Because that actually makes it very difficult to keep your mag low. Those skills have high uptimes including cruxweaver. You would have to overcast then to mag dump which would take dps away since those are spots you could use flail, generate crux have more beams.

True, but it only takes a second casting of rune to bottom out your mag. I only suggested Bahsei's as an alternative to Coral, and it appeared the OP did not have Ansuul's.

boi_anachronism_ · August 2023

El_Borracho wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

@boi_anachronism_ totally understand, but I'm talking about stamina arcanists. If magicka is your lower resource, it will be used for Fulminating Rune while your stamina is used for beam and flail. Magicka is the only resource used for Inspired Scholarship. Unless you are running Cruxweaver Armor (which I will is more damage heavy fights), which also uses magicka, those are the only skills that need magicka on a stamina arcanist. All the execute situations you are talking about will run off the stamina pool.

Obviously, you could run Bahsei's on a magicka build, but I'm with you there. I hated that set on magicka DDs. I do like Coral, even though it is similar, because you only have to run your stamina pool down to 33% for maximum effectiveness.

Because that actually makes it very difficult to keep your mag low. Those skills have high uptimes including cruxweaver. You would have to overcast then to mag dump which would take dps away since those are spots you could use flail, generate crux have more beams.

True, but it only takes a second casting of rune to bottom out your mag. I only suggested Bahsei's as an alternative to Coral, and it appeared the OP did not have Ansuul's.

Correct but those seconds add up quickly in a fight with a boss like olms for example. Parse with it vs coral. The difference will be plainly obvious.

ZOS_Icy · August 2023

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

El_Borracho · August 2023

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

@boi_anachronism_ totally understand, but I'm talking about stamina arcanists. If magicka is your lower resource, it will be used for Fulminating Rune while your stamina is used for beam and flail. Magicka is the only resource used for Inspired Scholarship. Unless you are running Cruxweaver Armor (which I will is more damage heavy fights), which also uses magicka, those are the only skills that need magicka on a stamina arcanist. All the execute situations you are talking about will run off the stamina pool.

Obviously, you could run Bahsei's on a magicka build, but I'm with you there. I hated that set on magicka DDs. I do like Coral, even though it is similar, because you only have to run your stamina pool down to 33% for maximum effectiveness.

Because that actually makes it very difficult to keep your mag low. Those skills have high uptimes including cruxweaver. You would have to overcast then to mag dump which would take dps away since those are spots you could use flail, generate crux have more beams.

True, but it only takes a second casting of rune to bottom out your mag. I only suggested Bahsei's as an alternative to Coral, and it appeared the OP did not have Ansuul's.

Correct but those seconds add up quickly in a fight with a boss like olms for example. Parse with it vs coral. The difference will be plainly obvious.

No doubt, hence why I use Coral