Proposal: Replace Invigorating Trait with Augmented

Casul · August 2023

As title says, Invigorating is considered one of the worst traits if not the worst. I think it should be replaced with Augmented Companion Trait (Increase duration of buffs and debuffs) to open another viable option for players.

What do you guys/gals think?

Sockermannen · August 2023

I like the idea, at this point it feels like invigorating has no place at all except for some PvP builds.

The version you described sounds like a good idea but it could also present a balancing challenge. Like, how strong should it be to make sure it’s worth bothering with and just how strong can we make it before it starts shaking up the support meta completely (considering short but powerfull buffs like major force and vulnerability exists).

Soarora · August 2023

Alternatively, a trait that buffs companions maybe?

tincanman · August 2023

That trait slot has always been a dead zone(weighted, prosperous..).

I doubt changing it would alter its status, just give 'the one to ignore' a new label.

Casul · August 2023

Sockermannen wrote: »

I like the idea, at this point it feels like invigorating has no place at all except for some PvP builds.

The version you described sounds like a good idea but it could also present a balancing challenge. Like, how strong should it be to make sure it’s worth bothering with and just how strong can we make it before it starts shaking up the support meta completely (considering short but powerfull buffs like major force and vulnerability exists).

I would propose

White: 6%
Green: 6.5%
Blue: 7%
Purple 7.5%
Gold 8%

At max that would be 8 pieces for 64% length increase (also a potential stacking with Jorvuld's Guidance 40%)

So assuming everything sacrificed we could see 104%

Take a standard support buff like warhorn. I am not sure how the math would work, but my initial guess is for total duration of major force is: ((10 + (10 x 64%)) x (10 x 40%)) = 22.96 seconds. That seems decent considering you are sacrificing 8 traits, a weapon slot, and 5 piece armor set.

Maybe I am overlooking other buff options that would swing it too far into the overpowered area.

Soarora wrote: »

Alternatively, a trait that buffs companions maybe?

This could also be an interesting idea, but I was aiming for something that can be used in all areas of content.

Zodiarkslayer · August 2023

I think I'd would be great for support, but the problem isn't that most traits are bad/useless. It's because Divines trait is so strong by comparison.

I mean, in PvE every Divines trait is basically 110 crit chance rating.

In PvP I can imagine much more viability. But I'd hate for ball groups to become even stronger.

Sockermannen · August 2023

Casul wrote: »

Sockermannen wrote: »

I like the idea, at this point it feels like invigorating has no place at all except for some PvP builds.

The version you described sounds like a good idea but it could also present a balancing challenge. Like, how strong should it be to make sure it’s worth bothering with and just how strong can we make it before it starts shaking up the support meta completely (considering short but powerfull buffs like major force and vulnerability exists).

I would propose

White: 6%
Green: 6.5%
Blue: 7%
Purple 7.5%
Gold 8%

At max that would be 8 pieces for 64% length increase (also a potential stacking with Jorvuld's Guidance 40%)

So assuming everything sacrificed we could see 104%

Take a standard support buff like warhorn. I am not sure how the math would work, but my initial guess is for total duration of major force is: ((10 + (10 x 64%)) x (10 x 40%)) = 22.96 seconds. That seems decent considering you are sacrificing 8 traits, a weapon slot, and 5 piece armor set.

Maybe I am overlooking other buff options that would swing it too far into the overpowered area.

Soarora wrote: »

Alternatively, a trait that buffs companions maybe?

This could also be an interesting idea, but I was aiming for something that can be used in all areas of content.

I feel like that would be way WAY overtuned and would push the trait into the mandatory must-have area for supports. I was imagining something around 30-40% with 7 gold pieces, that way it’d still be strong but could still have competition. Even then it would still probably be on the edge of being overtuned.

As for the duration bit, i’d assume it stacks additively like other % bonuses does, so for your formula it would be 10 + 6.4 + 4 = 20.4.
As far as i know we have no other % based duration increases to test this further with.

Casul · August 2023

Sockermannen wrote: »

Casul wrote: »

Sockermannen wrote: »

I like the idea, at this point it feels like invigorating has no place at all except for some PvP builds.

The version you described sounds like a good idea but it could also present a balancing challenge. Like, how strong should it be to make sure it’s worth bothering with and just how strong can we make it before it starts shaking up the support meta completely (considering short but powerfull buffs like major force and vulnerability exists).

I would propose

White: 6%
Green: 6.5%
Blue: 7%
Purple 7.5%
Gold 8%

At max that would be 8 pieces for 64% length increase (also a potential stacking with Jorvuld's Guidance 40%)

So assuming everything sacrificed we could see 104%

Take a standard support buff like warhorn. I am not sure how the math would work, but my initial guess is for total duration of major force is: ((10 + (10 x 64%)) x (10 x 40%)) = 22.96 seconds. That seems decent considering you are sacrificing 8 traits, a weapon slot, and 5 piece armor set.

Maybe I am overlooking other buff options that would swing it too far into the overpowered area.

Soarora wrote: »

Alternatively, a trait that buffs companions maybe?

This could also be an interesting idea, but I was aiming for something that can be used in all areas of content.

I feel like that would be way WAY overtuned and would push the trait into the mandatory must-have area for supports. I was imagining something around 30-40% with 7 gold pieces, that way it’d still be strong but could still have competition. Even then it would still probably be on the edge of being overtuned.

As for the duration bit, i’d assume it stacks additively like other % bonuses does, so for your formula it would be 10 + 6.4 + 4 = 20.4.
As far as i know we have no other % based duration increases to test this further with.

That is fair, plus another reason is for PvP at least increasing the length of your standard buffs would improve sustain. So it would definitely be easy for it to pull ahead of divines for sustain. I think 5% each would be ok.

Nihilr · August 2023

My husband and I are not the best players, but he has remade all our gear with Invigorating traits. Now our survivability and sustain are much better overall, while everything else we equip can be focused on damage/healing/defense. His tanks used to use sturdy, but the extra sustain works better for him.

If invigorating changes, we'd actually be pretty screwed. 😅

We co-op whatever dungeons we can get away with.

BXR_Lonestar · August 2023

Nihilr wrote: »

My husband and I are not the best players, but he has remade all our gear with Invigorating traits. Now our survivability and sustain are much better overall, while everything else we equip can be focused on damage/healing/defense. His tanks used to use sturdy, but the extra sustain works better for him.

If invigorating changes, we'd actually be pretty screwed. 😅

We co-op whatever dungeons we can get away with.

Might I recommend you both build 1 bar heavy attack sorcs?

Me and a friend both have identical heavy attack build sorcs and we can 2 man even some vet dungeons because our DPS is just crazy, and it is super easy to play.

The build is:

1. High elf with thief mundus
2. Oakensoul ring
3. Seargants Mail Set (lightning staff, 2 piece jewelry, and chest piece)
4. Storm Master body pieces
5. 1 piece Slimecraw monster set

The combat bar is set up with mages wrath, hurricane (stamina morph), daedric prey, the familiar and matriarch, and the atro ultimate.

Without ANY practice and a sloppy rotation, I parsed 72k on a trial dummy with this setup. Zero sustain issues.