[Request] Please Don't Nerf Arcanist, however instead....

hashii · July 2023

... Please boost all other classes to be super fun.

I can't speak for percentages, numbers, whether this stat should be higher or that stat should be lower, or anything like that. I build my characters to a certain degree, but I'm just a simple PvE guy, who at the end of the day, just wants to have fun in the game. For me, and many of my friends, the Arcanist class has been a breath of fresh air in ESO. It's easy to use with the right builds, and super fun. And it actually feels like I'm doing some decent damage. I'm not claiming some triple-digit dps or anything, but it's fun seeing myself do near 50k dps for the first time as a solo player.

This led to a question. What is wrong with the other classes?

I can't speak for other players, and to each their own preference, but I really want skill buffs and animation upgrades to older classes. Every other class seems quite boring to play, with maybe an exception to Templar's jabbing skill (which is pretty fun to use) or DK's fire-breath (sort of) or sorc's mage's fury (but seems kinda weak to use).

But overall, it doesn't feel like I'm powerful when I'm playing those classes. I personally think more effort should be placed on making the older classes super fun to play.

Once again, this post isn't about combat numbers or intense deep-dive number metrics or anything. But rather, just how a class feels to a player. And right now, the Arcanist feels so good.

merpins · July 2023

So I come from a game called Maplestory, where the whole drive of playing a character is how they feel to play. So whenever I play a new game, it's all about how it feels to play a class. ESO was no different when I joined on release.

The classes that feel good, for me, to play are:
Arcanist. I agree it feels the best to play right now. It doesn't need a nerf, since its damage is pretty inflated. Let me explain: it uses beam, which gets countered by boss mechanics. And when it does, your DPS drops like a rock. Yes it does great damage, but most of the time it won't be as high as it shows on a parse dummy since in real situations, you'll get staggered, knocked down, or stunned. But it'll probably get nerfed since Zos only knows big swinging nerfs or buffs.
Templar. Was the funnest to play imo before Arcanist, at least until U35 when the animation was changed for Jabs. It now collects dust for me. Remember above, it's all about how a class feels to play? Well the new jabs sucks, and doesn't feel good to use. Old jabs did.
Stam Sorc. A ton of fun, if a bit weak lately. 2h stam sorc especially.
Bleed Warden. Copium yes, but it's super fun to play. Too bad it sucks right now, and got ANOTHER nerf with the change to the Maelstrom 2h next patch. It hasn't done good damage in years, but I still love it.
Mag NB. Swallow Soul was my favorite skill in the game for years. Got nerfed a long time ago, and now the class sucks to play since its damage doesn't exist, but Mag NB still feels good to play in overland.

Don't like DK or Necro. Stam NB sucks to play and gives me carpal tunnel. Mag Warden feels like DK but worse and Zos keeps shoving ice staves down our throats when we do not want to be forced into a playstyle. Not a fan of Mag Sorc, it's fine, but I find it not very fun to play.

hashii · July 2023

merpins wrote: »

So I come from a game called Maplestory, where the whole drive of playing a character is how they feel to play. So whenever I play a new game, it's all about how it feels to play a class. ESO was no different when I joined on release.

What a fun coincidence

My last MMO was also Maplestory. I spent the better part of my childhood/adulthood playing in Broa/Bera. It was really fun making each new class - and oh boy are there many classes. I had like 40 characters or something total for each class. Eventually the grind and the Pay to Win made me quit the game. But I really loved my Kinesis and Zero classes. They were super fun. I haven't tried the newest ones cause I don't want to be pulled back in the grind and struggle again.

And I agree on your other comments. Especially Necromancers. For the longest time, I struggled with Necros so much because I had to keep on summoning the pets and it felt so mechanical and micro-managing without much fun. Some of the animations are pretty cool for Necros but the actual gameplay did not work for me.

As for Mag Sorcs, my Pet Sorc has been my Main for the longest time until the spot is now shared with my new Arcanist. Pet Sorcs are fun but having more flashy skills for the pets, or pet skins, or the twilight not flapping its wings all over my entire screen (causes me some headaches and eye-strain) would be nice.

DKs are alright but I really want bigger animation skills for the flame whip. It feels a bit clunky to use sometimes. However, I love tanking on my DK for dungeons. Got me through so many vet dungeons/arenas.

NBs I mainly use to sneak in and out of PvP areas for quests/events, or to support PvP combat from behind-the-scenes. However, aside from sneaking and thieving containers/npcs, the combat of NBs don't appeal to me too much. They feel very bland and simple.

Wardens are nice. I love my Warden healer, got me through so many vet dungeons/arenas as well. However for DPS, the timed bug bombs feel a bit clunky to use personally. But I did make an Ice-Mage with Whorl of Depths/Frostbite/Iceheart and that's kinda fun for thematic purposes.

Overall, I try to make each of my characters unique - I currently have like 17 of them - but I think Arcanist takes #1 spot for me for a class that is fun to play. Wish my other characters can feel the same love.

BasP · July 2023

Yeah, I really like the Arcanist in PvE as well. At the moment the class is perfect for my playstyle. It's fun to play with, doesn't require a really difficult rotation to deal decent DPS and both the survivability and sustain are good.

The second spot would go to the Warden for me. My first character was a Stamden and the third character I made was a Magden (which has been turned into a Frostden after the release of Frostbite), and I still enjoy playing with both of them.

But truth be told, I have 12 leveled characters and I actually like most classes. I usually only play with one character for a good while before I grow bored of that class and switch to another character. I must say that it will be hard to go back to my Stamcro or Magcro once I'm bored of the Arcanist though. While I actually like the visuals of the Necromancer's skills and don't mind a rotation centered around Blastbones, the class itself isn't in a good spot right now

Ghaleb · July 2023

Don't want to be that guy but the Arcanist will be nerfed. Not today or tomorrow. But I expect first changes to happen around beginning / middle of 2024 latest.

Why? From an endgame, raiding perspective, the arcanist is the 2-bar version of the former 1-bar-HA builds. The class is stupidly easy to play and without much effort, I finish at the top or 2nd place of each raid I have currently performed. No thought process necessary, except knowing mechanics and adjusting your positioning. Add the survivability due to e.g. shields, you have a class which dies more seldomly, is less squishy, doesn't need that many sets to perform and provides very(!) feasible damage.

But then why the nerf mid 2024? I think that ZoS wants to retain the Arcanist as a selling point for their expansion. If they nerf it too early, the selling point loses even more attraction, than the current expansion has even managed to build (if at all).
Compare that to the Necro. Class was OP for a longer time and currently is close to bottom tier in endgame raiding and basically only brought to raids as buff-bot.

Due to the ease of the class, survivability, damage potential, the class is in conflict of the by ZoS mentioned mastery-requirement, they envision for their combat. Hence, fate is clear and you should enjoy your arcanist as long as you can, since the nerf hammer is in preparation and will come down next year.

Necrotech_Master · July 2023

i also believe that the arcanist will be rebalanced

i dont think they are necessarily in a bad spot right now, but i also can see how there is way too much dmg focus on fatecarver (the other arcanist dmg skills are just OK, with the flail being probably the 2nd best skill behind fatecarver

runeblades looks and feels better to use than most spammables, but its dmg is very sub par and doesnt feel impactful and is too single target compared to flail (which is a cone, applies a unique debuff to the enemies, and has an execute component) its just bad to use

the other 2 trees are basically focused on survivability (being a tank and healing tree) which make the arcanist great as a support or tank, but their dps heavily relies on a crux buffed fatecarver to really deal any decent amount of dmg (which i still find gets interrupted frequently)

honestly speaking, i dont think arcanist is in need of nerfs as much as other classes need buffs

as stated in other threads, necromancer and warden have terrible class spammables (skulls and bird) that feel awful and slow to use, necromancer lacks almost any form of major buff outside of resolve, templar has several skills which are terrible to use and have received some form of nerf for the past 3 updates, sorc needs some more class synergy so they can get good dmg without pets or playing a HA build

and thats just to name a few issues with existing classes, personally the worst/least fun class to play for me is necromancer (it was always a huge disappointment from the time of release with the awful way the pets are handled + half of their skills being marked as criminal acts)

merpins · July 2023

hashii wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

So I come from a game called Maplestory, where the whole drive of playing a character is how they feel to play. So whenever I play a new game, it's all about how it feels to play a class. ESO was no different when I joined on release.

What a fun coincidence My last MMO was also Maplestory. I spent the better part of my childhood/adulthood playing in Broa/Bera. It was really fun making each new class - and oh boy are there many classes. I had like 40 characters or something total for each class. Eventually the grind and the Pay to Win made me quit the game. But I really loved my Kinesis and Zero classes. They were super fun. I haven't tried the newest ones cause I don't want to be pulled back in the grind and struggle again.

Overall, I try to make each of my characters unique - I currently have like 17 of them - but I think Arcanist takes #1 spot for me for a class that is fun to play. Wish my other characters can feel the same love.

Boy oh boy, I don't run into a ton of people that played Maple. I was over in Windia, though I still play Maple. I switched over to Reboot in 2016, which is a solo-ish server without trading, but has cubes and other stuff for meso in the cash shop, so it's a non-pay-to-win server. It's still good fun, I'd recommend giving it a shot especially with 6th job on the horizon. Still a bit of a grind tho.
But ESO is still a better mmo, I wouldn't recommend maple to people that haven't played it before honestly since it's an acquired taste.

I'd say Arcanist is also my current main. It's a lot of fun. I don't have that many characters, only have 9 slots even though I've been playing ESO since beta, and I only really play like 5 of them.

vsrs_au · July 2023

Boosting other classes whenever one particular class is overpowered will just result in skill numbers getting larger over time, which will be unsustainable in the long term. Which is exactly why nerfing exists.

propertyOfUndefined · July 2023

I keep hearing "Don't nerf, just buff..."

I get it. My problem with that is everybody becomes too strong, which results in PVE content becoming trivial and boring.

merpins · July 2023

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

I keep hearing "Don't nerf, just buff..."

I get it. My problem with that is everybody becomes too strong, which results in PVE content becoming trivial and boring.

Less don't nerf just buff, and more like choose a benchmark and get every class to that benchmark. If it requires nerfing every class, the benchmark is too low since the worst classes in the game are struggling in PVE. The benchmark should result in the weakest classes being buffed, the strongest classes getting minor nerfs, and the middle classes getting adjustments.

For example, if the bench mark was Nightblade, then half the classes in the game need significant buffs, and a couple need nerfs. The classes that needs buffs are all Wardens, stam DK, stam sorc, mag arcanist, and all templars. Mag dk and mag sorc would need minor nerfs, then stam arcanist and stam necromancer would need no changes. This is from a damage perspective only btw, there's also the perspective of sustain, range/mobility, self healing/defense, and group utility. And this is only one benchmark, it could be many other classes or some other arbitrary number, but having a benchmark to balance to is something the game is missing, which is probably caused by PVP and PVE not being balanced separately.

vsrs_au · July 2023

merpins wrote: »

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

I keep hearing "Don't nerf, just buff..."

I get it. My problem with that is everybody becomes too strong, which results in PVE content becoming trivial and boring.

Less don't nerf just buff, and more like choose a benchmark and get every class to that benchmark. If it requires nerfing every class, the benchmark is too low since the worst classes in the game are struggling in PVE. The benchmark should result in the weakest classes being buffed, the strongest classes getting minor nerfs, and the middle classes getting adjustments.

According to the overland content feedback thread, nobody's struggling in PvE, quite the opposite in fact.

WuffyCerulei · July 2023

At some point, Arcanist beam will be nerfed or changed. They will HAVE to do some changes though in order for non-beam builds to be also viable or more appealing. The class has the same issue sorcs still have, that being one aspect of the class being the best by miles (pets for sorc, beam for arcanist). The runeblades are rather underwhelming, and for mag, sustain is hard without beam. Even non-class spammables are so unappealing on the class. They’ll be to do some adjustments and buffs in order to give such builds some strength. Perhaps an adjustment to how crux can be built. The newer class sets that’ll be in Q4 may help with that.

merpins · July 2023

vsrs_au wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

I keep hearing "Don't nerf, just buff..."

I get it. My problem with that is everybody becomes too strong, which results in PVE content becoming trivial and boring.

Less don't nerf just buff, and more like choose a benchmark and get every class to that benchmark. If it requires nerfing every class, the benchmark is too low since the worst classes in the game are struggling in PVE. The benchmark should result in the weakest classes being buffed, the strongest classes getting minor nerfs, and the middle classes getting adjustments.

According to the overland content feedback thread, nobody's struggling in PvE, quite the opposite in fact.

Who here or is talking about overland? You can play overland while wearing nothing and wielding no weapons and not struggle at all. This is dungeons, vet dungeons, trials, and vet trials. Overland is already trivial and boring, which brings up the vet overland toggle suggestion. Overland shouldn't have a difficulty increase, since that would alienate new players, but having a hard version as an optional toggle would be good.

vsrs_au · July 2023

merpins wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

I keep hearing "Don't nerf, just buff..."

I get it. My problem with that is everybody becomes too strong, which results in PVE content becoming trivial and boring.

Less don't nerf just buff, and more like choose a benchmark and get every class to that benchmark. If it requires nerfing every class, the benchmark is too low since the worst classes in the game are struggling in PVE. The benchmark should result in the weakest classes being buffed, the strongest classes getting minor nerfs, and the middle classes getting adjustments.

According to the overland content feedback thread, nobody's struggling in PvE, quite the opposite in fact.

Who here or is talking about overland? You can play overland while wearing nothing and wielding no weapons and not struggle at all. This is dungeons, vet dungeons, trials, and vet trials. Overland is already trivial and boring, which brings up the vet overland toggle suggestion. Overland shouldn't have a difficulty increase, since that would alienate new players, but having a hard version as an optional toggle would be good.

You said "the worst classes in the game are struggling in PVE", which is what I replied to. There was no indication that you intended that statement to only apply to non-overland content.

merpins · July 2023

vsrs_au wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

I keep hearing "Don't nerf, just buff..."

I get it. My problem with that is everybody becomes too strong, which results in PVE content becoming trivial and boring.

Less don't nerf just buff, and more like choose a benchmark and get every class to that benchmark. If it requires nerfing every class, the benchmark is too low since the worst classes in the game are struggling in PVE. The benchmark should result in the weakest classes being buffed, the strongest classes getting minor nerfs, and the middle classes getting adjustments.

According to the overland content feedback thread, nobody's struggling in PvE, quite the opposite in fact.

Who here or is talking about overland? You can play overland while wearing nothing and wielding no weapons and not struggle at all. This is dungeons, vet dungeons, trials, and vet trials. Overland is already trivial and boring, which brings up the vet overland toggle suggestion. Overland shouldn't have a difficulty increase, since that would alienate new players, but having a hard version as an optional toggle would be good.

You said "the worst classes in the game are struggling in PVE", which is what I replied to. There was no indication that you intended that statement to only apply to non-overland content.

When people in the forums complain about a class underperforming in PVE, they aren't talking about overland content. No one expects that to be the case and assumes it is, because it's not.

LittlePinkDot · July 2023

From a PVP perspective the beam already sucks in PvP. Everybody will just move out of the way.
You need to be able to stun somebody in place long enough to kill them with a beam + tide kings gaze combo.
The skill would be even less effective if it were nerfed.

The fact that Arcanist can only hold 3 crux at a time means you cant use impervious rune ward and beam together.

I don't even slot beam on my bar. I use bow skills with flail.

Ghaleb wrote: »

Don't want to be that guy but the Arcanist will be nerfed. Not today or tomorrow. But I expect first changes to happen around beginning / middle of 2024 latest.

Why? From an endgame, raiding perspective, the arcanist is the 2-bar version of the former 1-bar-HA builds. The class is stupidly easy to play and without much effort, I finish at the top or 2nd place of each raid I have currently performed. No thought process necessary, except knowing mechanics and adjusting your positioning. Add the survivability due to e.g. shields, you have a class which dies more seldomly, is less squishy, doesn't need that many sets to perform and provides very(!) feasible damage.

But then why the nerf mid 2024? I think that ZoS wants to retain the Arcanist as a selling point for their expansion. If they nerf it too early, the selling point loses even more attraction, than the current expansion has even managed to build (if at all).
Compare that to the Necro. Class was OP for a longer time and currently is close to bottom tier in endgame raiding and basically only brought to raids as buff-bot.

Due to the ease of the class, survivability, damage potential, the class is in conflict of the by ZoS mentioned mastery-requirement, they envision for their combat. Hence, fate is clear and you should enjoy your arcanist as long as you can, since the nerf hammer is in preparation and will come down next year.

universeman444 · August 2023

nerf. now.