React wrote: »

I agree it should be reworked, but not in the way you're suggesting.

I think the biggest issue with corrosive is that it is an extremely strong offensive ult with an equally strong defensive portion.

Remove the defensive portion entirely, and signifcantly increase the damage of the PBAOE corrosive dot. Like +30% or something like that. The skill still gives you 100k pen on all direct damage like it does on live.

Pretty spot on when it comes to how this should be addressed, there should be one morph for penetration, and one for mitigation.

If the mitigation was removed from Corrosive, I would be in favor of giving the Penetration to all of their moves, including their Damage over Time, instead of specifically Direct Damage.

React wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

React wrote: »

I agree it should be reworked, but not in the way you're suggesting.

I think the biggest issue with corrosive is that it is an extremely strong offensive ult with an equally strong defensive portion.

Remove the defensive portion entirely, and significantly increase the damage of the PBAOE corrosive dot. Like +30% or something like that. The skill still gives you 100k pen on all direct damage like it does on live.

Pretty spot on when it comes to how this should be addressed, there should be one morph for penetration, and one for mitigation.

If the mitigation was removed from Corrosive, I would be in favor of giving the Penetration to all of their moves, including their Damage over Time, instead of specifically Direct Damage.

I'd be hesitant to apply the penetration to dot damage. I'm not sure if you played back when s&b frontbar, seventh fury, dot stamdk w/corrosive backbar and s&b ult frontbar was meta, but it was completely absurd. They would dot you up, pop corrosive, and you would immediately be unable to outheal the dot pressure alone, before they started spamming LA->deep slash -> bash on you. It was quite literally unbeatable in most scenarios.

With how much more free damage & dot pressure there is from status effects, proc sets, and from increased ability access via hybridization, I think that if then pen also affected dots it would be just as absurd as it is on live.

One way that could be offset, is have the pen apply to newly cast Damage over Time, as most of Dragonknight’s DoTs are melee ranged, this would encourage ranged builds on a class that struggles to incentivize them. Their only other alternative is Standard for the 15% damage and mitigation. I’m sure there would be a better balance they could meet, but if they only increased the Corrosive Armor DoT while taking away all of that mitigation, Dragonknight mains would flip tables.

In regards to the seventh legion/fury meta, no I had a few years of down time, from right before Clockwork City all the way to Waking Flames so I did have the luck of missing that.

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Totally a yes from me. Tired of encountering players who run Corrosive alongside Dark Convergence and Plaguebreak. Or Cleave bombers with Vicious Death.

Why should skills suffer because of broken sets?

Due to the introduction of such sets, it turned into some kind of pvp crap. Templar's toothpick was broken. The sorcerer in the specialization of mana is very bad. Due to complaints about the necromancer, this class is now completely dead. I don't see the point in nerfing everything. Why not make the game better and not add something to other classes and nerf sets.


Nerf the game. Just removing it.

fred4 wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Let’s face it. How many posts have complained about this completely broken skill.

IMO it was only broken with Oakensoul upon that mythic's release. Other than that - and I assume you're talking about PvP - it mainly catches out new players. Experienced ones know to stay away, and bombing, in all it's forms, has always been situational to my knowledge. Brawler bombing is not something you should regularly be caught by, or you're basically new to PvP.

Would not take a lot to rework. Perhaps boost the damage of the ultimate but only allow the penetration buff to apply to the ultimate itself.

By how much? As it stands there is no significant damage from the ult. I'd hate for it to be changed to just another damage ult, albeit with the incoming damage cap. I like the uniqueness of it.

Alternatively it could boost applied Poison DoT’s by a percentage giving it a poison dk build roll.

Well, ZOS chose the other route. It only applies to direct damage. This ult was actually more powerful in the past, did you know that? It buffed DOTs. Strong DOTs are quite oppressive right now, e.g. with Mara nerfed and ever since their duration was extended to 20s really. That's why people use Master DW. Corrosive was deliberately changed so a DK can't pop it while you're dotted up and miles away. Basically, if you made this change, you could very easily shoot yourself in the foot. Careful what you wish for.

But alas, there are a few players out there who think it is fine. So let’s vote on it.

DK as a whole has been OP in PvP, I'm aware of that. At the same time I haven't seen (or looked for to be fair) a discussion of why recent patches have advantaged it so much. I hate people leading with the conclusion of "oh, it must be Corrosive" (or something else) when in reality it is a multitude of factors, ranging from hybridisation to DOT changes to questionable whip, chain pull (and talon?) buffs or changes. Even the fact that Shattering Rocks now delivers damage at the end, rather than the beginning of the stun contributes to DK burst potential. Fossilize was the preferred morph in the past. Nowadays every DK takes advantage of the Shattering Rocks heal. There have been too many changes where ZOS has looked at the attractiveness of a single skill or morph without looking at how gradually OP the buffs have made DK in PvP, but it's not any one thing that has got us here. A reason I've personally leaned towards Corrosive has also been the historical brokenness of Leap in IC.

No disrespect Fred but I think the path from DK mediocrity to DK supremacy is pretty well known. You're not wrong to associate it with Oakensoul but it wasn't only Oakensoul. It was a lot of things that happened around the same time as Oakensoul.

There was the change to the combustion passive, which coincided with the buff to the charged trait, and also kinda coincided with the prevalence of certain status effect debuff and DoT skills. Which kinda led to them having free sustain. Ash Cloud deserves mentioning here too even though it was fixed. And original Oakensoul, as you said, which was broken with the major heroism. But even after that got fixed I think DK eyes were opened to the fact that you could have high uptime on even very expensive ultimates.

Which isn't problematic alone, the ulti thing, because DKs have always played this way. But you combine it with everything else and that's a lot of free sustain. And in the case of Corrosive it's also a lot of free defense and free damage. Well not free, but you know.

Also DKs didn't used to be so good at direct damage. Somewhere before or during all of this molten whip became strong and gave weapon damage. FoO gained major savagery.

And in the end you've got a class that doesn't need to worry about defense (they have blocking passives to help them get through the in-between times,) doesn't need to worry about sustain, and can focus their offense into one stat-- weapon damage, which also makes their healing very strong. And they can have even more healing from molten whip stacks and minor brutality.

To a certain degree it isn't even the DKs fault. You could blame the overall meta. It just so happens that DKs benefit more than anyone else from what the meta is. Free status effect procs, easy sustain, block-casting, and OP heals.

Most people see Corrosive as being the lynchpin. For multiple reasons-- some of which I've already mentioned. But there's also the fact that you can continue to generate ulti while in Corrosive but not during any other transformative ulti. Whip stacks don't go away when you miss like other similar skills. Corrosive having such a powerful defensive property attached to it renders the actual defensive morph useless and out of place.

Changing any of the last three things would probably be enough-- and admittedly the whip thing has nothing to do with Corrosive. But since these obvious inconsistencies aren't getting fixed people are coming up with other ideas. Nerf FoO for instance. Nerf Fossilize. It's just boredom, tiredness, and desperation. Something needs to be done. Like yesterday.

I'm hesitant to ask Zos for any skill reworks after they butchered Jabs, when no one was asking for a rework of jabs. Feels like a monkey's paw type deal where we might ask for a rework, and either get something worse in that it's too good, or something that no one uses ever. And there is no in-between. We might suggest a lot of reasonable changes to skills, but Zos only knows one thing, and that's giant swings in one direction or another.