Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

[snip]

The fact that 4 people think your statement is "Awesome" sorta sums it up. I don't know a single trans person that transitioned just so they could be a victim. Yes, a lot of them may fall into that category- but at the same time the rates of violence and bigotry against that group of people is at an all time high.

This isn't the first time I've heard/seen that statement from others before either, and am so confused why anyone would /want/ that.... or why you'd think that? it's the sort of statement I've seen repeated, but without actual details or reasoning behind it.

Am really curious, what has informed your bias?

[Edited for Quote]

Won't comment until an unbiased source do the proper investigation on the case

Syldras wrote: »

BlindingBright wrote: »

I don't know a single trans person that transitioned just so they could be a victim. Yes, a lot of them may fall into that category- but at the same time the rates of violence and bigotry against that group of people is at an all time high.
This isn't the first time I've heard/seen that statement from others before either, and am so confused why anyone would /want/ that....

Not only discrimination, but also surgeries. Who would undergo a series of long, painful surgeries only to get a "victim bonus"? Who would change their body this way without an intrinsic need for this change, just to be pitied by someone? Doesn't make sense.

Not every trans person undergoes reassignment surgeries, and some people believe surgery is not necessary.

Wow if this is true then it is completely inappropriate company conduct and those responsible should definitely face discipline. From what I can see, it's heart breaking that someone could be treated in such a poor and careless manner, regardless of other unsubstantiated points.

The only thing is, as others have pointed out, one side of this is completely missing and it makes it difficult to say with absolute certainty what happened.

This is definitely an important topic, but this thread has become a complete Wild West. No comments have been redacted or snipped and some of the things being said have no place in a constructive discussion.

More information will hopefully be made available soon and through an appropriate channel. It's unlikely to be the forums for no reason other than that such a small percentage of the people that should be made aware of the issue engage with the forums.

This thread requires heavy moderation if any kind of positive outcome is to be gleaned (positive outcomes in this sense being represented by culpability, further evidence and the other side of the story).

Fingers crossed that justice, in whichever form it should be right to take, prevails.

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

freezinggrey wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Tyrobius wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Why do I have people messaging me that there are characters in this thread trying to push this weird narrative that anyone unwilling to crusade against a company they’ve always known to be inclusive over a one-sided and incomplete story makes them “transphobic” or filled with hatred?

None of any of my posts, or the vast majority of people posting here in opposition to being blindly lead, have had anything to do with the person going through a transition, and everything to with the very real possibility that there is a dishonest narrative being pushed, and it’s important to look at the situation from both angles.

From the sound of these interviews, Faren had full access to their account but refused to access it due to it bearing a resemblance to their “dead name” and willfully fell behind schedule.

Be honest with yourselves here.
There’s more to this story.

Blindly lead (sic)... ""dead name""... be honest with yourself, you just can't help yourself can you?

Is it not blind? Where’s the direction? What’s the focus? Who are we looking at to pay for this alleged discrimination?

Regarding “dead name,” that’s not a term used around here, it’s “old name” or simply described as a name you no longer use.

Intentionally dead naming and misgendering someone is explicitly an anti-trans slur and is hate speech. This is very basic stuff.

Who said it was intentional?
Very basic assumptions.

Stop beating a dead horse while you’re at it, you don’t know the whole story, and won’t, until it’s ran due process.

You’re taught as early as middle school law, that people are innocent until proven guilty. This isn’t Salem and you’re not the townsfolk.

Continuously deadnaming someone, whether its intentional or not, is a form of harassment which is illegal in Maryland. Not only that, but retaliating against someone for filing a complaint is also illegal under that same law.

Though, I can't see how repeated deadnaming wouldn't be intentional. To take a page from your book; you're taught as early as elementary school that when someone tells you to stop, you're supposed to stop.

How do you even know they were being “dead named,” word of mouth?

You read pages on the internet.

Until it’s processed as conclusive evidence, it’s hearsay.

You literally hear the manager tell her to just go by her deadname at one point in the recordings. The evidence is all there. Perhaps actually listen to it.

It really sucks that the system incentivizes managers like that to exist. She probably got a raise.

I think corporate didn't understand or care about the problem and just wanted it to go away.

Carcamongus wrote: »

This starts during gestation, when the brain develops into a gender which isn't the same as the physical one.

Source? I ask because there's no such thing as a male and female brain. It's an outdated, sexist view that isn't supported by science.

Having said that, of course nobody just wakes up and decides to be trans. I just hate to see statements made with no sources to support them.

(Source for my statement that there's no such thing as a male and female brain: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763421000804 - a comprehensive review of decades of research around this question. Conclusion: the only significant difference between a male and female brain is size - males tend to have larger brains.

There is one study that concluded that transwomen have brains more similar to females than males, but that's been debunked because it didn't control for sexual orientation - where studies have shown that there are differences between the brains of lesbians and straight women, and the brains of gay men and straight men. As stated in the conclusion of a recent paper (2021) called "Brain structure changes associated with sexual orientation":

The findings aid the understanding of the neurobiology of sexual orientation and emphasizes the need of including or controlling for potential effects of the sexual orientation of participants in neuroimaging studies.

You can read the full paper here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7930173/

As I mentioned, the one study about the brains of transwomen that's widely quoted didn't control for sexual orientation, which is why its results have been dismissed.

Sorry to get so technical, but I see this thing about male vs. female brains and trans people having brains of the opposite sex so often that it's irritating. Don't just repeat what you've seen in a tweet or something - do your research!)

JavaRen wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

JavaRen wrote: »

Making a non-consenting recording like that in Maryland is a felony. Hope Leona has good legal representation.

We don't know that's it is non-consenting. It appears like that right now. But, we don't know for sure.

You are correct. I assumed that corporate policy and a sketchy manager would just not allow that, but we don't know. If there was consent Leona should really share the recording of such, for her own protection.

You'd be surprised the number of managers that just allow recordings just to give themselves less headaches.

Edit

Typically consent is given before recording.

Aislinna wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

JavaRen wrote: »

Making a non-consenting recording like that in Maryland is a felony. Hope Leona has good legal representation.

Yup. We don't know that's it is non-consenting. It appears like that right now. But, we don't know for sure. We also don't know the terms of her gender reassignment agreement that barred her from suing. It's possible that there was a non-disclosure in that as well.

We do know; I think Leona apologizing for lying about whether she had recorded conversations (2:14:00) with the manager who was standing up for her, shows clearly that there was not consent. If there was consent, why would the manager ask if he'd been recorded? If there was consent why would Leona lie and say no?

Yup. Missed that part. Yeah, looks like she's basically admitting to it when it comes to at least one of the parties. Good catch.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

JavaRen wrote: »

Making a non-consenting recording like that in Maryland is a felony. Hope Leona has good legal representation.

Yup. We don't know that's it is non-consenting. It appears like that right now. But, we don't know for sure. We also don't know the terms of her gender reassignment agreement that barred her from suing. It's possible that there was a non-disclosure in that as well.

We do know; I think Leona apologizing for lying about whether she had recorded conversations (2:14:00) with the manager who was standing up for her, shows clearly that there was not consent. If there was consent, why would the manager ask if he'd been recorded? If there was consent why would Leona lie and say no?

Yup. Missed that part. Yeah, looks like she's basically admitting to it when it comes to at least one of the parties. Foolish thing to do.

Additionally saying "after it came out that I recorded Elphaba" shows non-consent there too. If there was consent, why would it have to come out that she'd done it, both parties would know it had been done.

Listening to the entire 4 hours of this video, shows a lot more of the story than the 23 minute "TL/DR" hype rage video shared.

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

You can turn it into whatever you want

There's nothing turning about it. The manager tells her to go by a deadname and intentionally outed her in front of her colleagues.

There's not a chance that they aren't familiar with how to change names properly. People change their names all the time. It's customary for married women to change their names. Names get recorded incorrectly and need to be fixed. Unique names get misspelled and have to be updated.

It's far easier to believe that there was weaponized incompetence because they didn't support Leona's name change than it is to believe that a multimillion dollar corporation that's been around decades has never had to change someone's name before.

They certainly didn't pay for her expensive surgeries on the agreement she not sue them because name changes are generally beyond their capability.

Completely preposterous that there is no process for changing someone's name.

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

You can turn it into whatever you want

There's nothing turning about it. The manager tells her to go by a deadname and intentionally outed her in front of her colleagues.

There's not a chance that they aren't familiar with how to change names properly. People change their names all the time. It's customary for married women to change their names. Names get recorded incorrectly and need to be fixed. Unique names get misspelled and have to be updated.

It's far easier to believe that there was weaponized incompetence because they didn't support Leona's name change than it is to believe that a multimillion dollar corporation that's been around decades has never had to change someone's name before.

They certainly didn't pay for her expensive surgeries on the agreement she not sue them because name changes are generally beyond their capability.

They paid her to leave quietly because they didn’t want to have to build an extremely expensive defense team to combat her in court.

They wouldn't be worried about that if things were as cut and dry as you're trying to paint them to be. Her manager outed her and noticeably failed to do bare minimum things to the point other employees complained.

And yes, they can absolutely counter sue for legal fees.

Name changes literally happen all the time. I'm not talking about print name tags.

Aislinna wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

JavaRen wrote: »

Making a non-consenting recording like that in Maryland is a felony. Hope Leona has good legal representation.

Yup. We don't know that's it is non-consenting. It appears like that right now. But, we don't know for sure. We also don't know the terms of her gender reassignment agreement that barred her from suing. It's possible that there was a non-disclosure in that as well.

We do know; I think Leona apologizing for lying about whether she had recorded conversations (2:14:00) with the manager who was standing up for her, shows clearly that there was not consent. If there was consent, why would the manager ask if he'd been recorded? If there was consent why would Leona lie and say no?

Yup. Missed that part. Yeah, looks like she's basically admitting to it when it comes to at least one of the parties. Foolish thing to do.

Additionally saying "after it came out that I recorded Elphaba" shows non-consent there too. If there was consent, why would it have to come out that she'd done it, both parties would know it had been done.

Listening to the entire 4 hours of this video, shows a lot more of the story than the 23 minute "TL/DR" hype rage video shared.

I'm not sure why it matters so much to some people in this thread whether or not the recording was made properly under Maryland law, aside from salivating over the thought of a trans person being punished for trying to protect herself. Nothing about the contents of the recording changes no matter what Maryland law says. And, not that it matters, but a DA is never going to waste their time filing charges over something like this. The only thing this might do is cause harm to a potential wrongful termination suit on Leona's part - but that is her problem, not anyone else's.