Why isn't the NB from TESO a tank killer in TESO?

Alharion · July 2023

NB as a group really has very few special features, but as we know, the tank is king in TESO. It's immortal, impossible to face for most once a wtf set has been equipped, so why shouldn't NB be able to play with this in mind, knowing that it's supposed to be a killer?

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

Would love to see this, personally.

If heals didn’t scale off of damage, all roles would be much more pronounced and you could play out your fantasy archtype.

You’re mistaken about the lack of Nightblade group utility though, they have been constantly receiving extremely powerful Major and Minor buffs and debuffs, one being Cowardice.

Alharion · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Would love to see this, personally.

If heals didn’t scale off of damage, all roles would be much more pronounced and you could play out your fantasy archtype.

You’re mistaken about the lack of Nightblade group utility though, they have been constantly receiving extremely powerful Major and Minor buffs and debuffs, one being Cowardice.

Well then, they mustn't work in BG because in this mode you get the horrible feeling of being useless when you're playing NB and it's even worse when the group is scattered...

Redguards_Revenge · July 2023

IF you want NB to become a tank killer, we will remove all of it's power from the class. The power will only manifest upon getting into battle with a tank.

Do you really want this? Remember they will have to be built from the ground up. We will remove cloak. As it won't be needed to be a tank killer.

1. If HP greater than 40k NBs gain X against that player
2. if Defense is greater than 30k NBs gain X against that player
3. While enemy is shielding NBs X Y Z
4. When HP is greater than 40k, their health is leeched from them healing you.

Note that to be a tank killer, you don't need cloak, grim, crit, Heals, etc. That would make you more than a tank killer.

You don't want NB to become a tank killer, you want them to continue to become OP. If you can't kill a tank, group up and kill him.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

Alharion wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Would love to see this, personally.

If heals didn’t scale off of damage, all roles would be much more pronounced and you could play out your fantasy archtype.

You’re mistaken about the lack of Nightblade group utility though, they have been constantly receiving extremely powerful Major and Minor buffs and debuffs, one being Cowardice.

Well then, they mustn't work in BG because in this mode you get the horrible feeling of being useless when you're playing NB and it's even worse when the group is scattered...

Nightblade is in a weird spot right now.

There are two builds that are overpowered.

Ones that don’t use shadowy disguise yet manage to mitigate all of your damage through healing while scalping you with a 20k spec bow.
Others that sit in the back with shadowy disguise and snipe desync you, killing you instantly with a Scavenging Maw.

It’s extremely great at either, but the common problem is that Nightblade used to be able to do both things simultaneously, and people want to relive those days running Shadowy Disguise brawling in a group and it just didn’t work update 38.

With the changes to Cloak, now providing Major Prophecy and Savagery, you’re going to see that playstyle revived, as now, you have the bar space to throw Cloak on instead of Camo Hunter.

DrNukenstein · July 2023

You can't solo kill hard core tanks. It's not happening, and even if it happens it wasn't worth your time unless they were afk (which is pretty common).

I had a great BG yesterday where we were sticking together and making kills happen as a team. There were like 5 of these goons holding block like it's fun and they were going down too. All it takes is one fear while your team is parsing on them and they are dead, but no one has the damage to do it solo these days.

Dr_Con · July 2023

Because "Tank" isn't a specific PVP class. You have "Damage Dealers" and "Supports."

edward_frigidhands · July 2023

https://eso-sets.com/set/shell-splitter

Shell Splitter
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
ESO-Hub.com
Type PvP
ArmorSet bonus
(2 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(3 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(4 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(5 items) When an enemy blocks one of your attacks, increase your Offensive Penetration by 631 for 5 seconds. This effect can stack up to 20 times. You can gain one stack every 0.5 seconds.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

https://eso-sets.com/set/shell-splitter

Shell Splitter
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
ESO-Hub.com
Type PvP
ArmorSet bonus
(2 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(3 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(4 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(5 items) When an enemy blocks one of your attacks, increase your Offensive Penetration by 631 for 5 seconds. This effect can stack up to 20 times. You can gain one stack every 0.5 seconds.

That set doesn’t solve the problem that creates an Unkillable tank… it’s their insane ability to self heal, while sustaining indefinitely.

All you have to do is create a build that balances its Magicka and Stamina use with 27k resistance to be completely unkillable. Sustain draining sets don’t work well enough because they can be purged.

edward_frigidhands · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

https://eso-sets.com/set/shell-splitter

Shell Splitter
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
ESO-Hub.com
Type PvP
ArmorSet bonus
(2 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(3 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(4 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(5 items) When an enemy blocks one of your attacks, increase your Offensive Penetration by 631 for 5 seconds. This effect can stack up to 20 times. You can gain one stack every 0.5 seconds.

That set doesn’t solve the problem that creates an Unkillable tank… it’s their insane ability to self heal, while sustaining indefinitely.

All you have to do is create a build that balances its Magicka and Stamina use with 27k resistance to be completely unkillable. Sustain draining sets don’t work well enough because they can be purged.

I am going to disagree with how effective running with just 27k resistance is as a tank. Sustain contributing towards self healing is countered by sustain contributing towards a potent damage build, at least in large scale group vs group play in Cyro.

You aren't meant to 1v1 kill tanks. That would kind of defeat the entire purpose of having tanks in the game.

Sets like this provide a considerable amount of pressure in group vs group play to take down builds that have a tanking focus. This set can provide almost 13k penetration as a 5 pc bonus, there is not a single set in the game that can provide anything close in terms of a counter.

However, if your target isn't employing a key tool like block to survive your problem is not tanks but healers.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

https://eso-sets.com/set/shell-splitter

Shell Splitter
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
ESO-Hub.com
Type PvP
ArmorSet bonus
(2 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(3 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(4 items) Adds 1487 Offensive Penetration
(5 items) When an enemy blocks one of your attacks, increase your Offensive Penetration by 631 for 5 seconds. This effect can stack up to 20 times. You can gain one stack every 0.5 seconds.

That set doesn’t solve the problem that creates an Unkillable tank… it’s their insane ability to self heal, while sustaining indefinitely.

All you have to do is create a build that balances its Magicka and Stamina use with 27k resistance to be completely unkillable. Sustain draining sets don’t work well enough because they can be purged.

I am going to disagree with how effective running with just 27k resistance is as a tank. Sustain contributing towards self healing is countered by sustain contributing towards a potent damage build, at least in large scale group vs group play in Cyro.

You aren't meant to 1v1 kill tanks. That would kind of defeat the entire purpose of having tanks in the game.

Sets like this provide a considerable amount of pressure in group vs group play to take down builds that have a tanking focus. This set can provide almost 13k penetration as a 5 pc bonus, there is not a single set in the game that can provide anything close in terms of a counter.

However, if your target isn't employing a key tool like block to survive your problem is not tanks but healers.

See, you’re right that in the current state of the game we are not meant to kill a tank 1v1, but I would love for a great pressure build to at least be able to kill an average tank, or a great tank to survive limitless average damage dealers…

Luckily enough, it seems like we might have that next patch, if that new monster set goes live.

Wandering_Immigrant · July 2023

I play my NB as a pretty effective tank buster. Fully buffed I'm at around 8k WD with about 25k pen, it's rare to find someone I can't take chunks out of. Of course that doesn't mean I'm taking out real tank builds 1vs1, they just have too much health to eat through on my own, I burst them, they recover, and they have the sustain to do that indefinitely. That's what they're built for. That's fine, they're not taking me out 1vs1 either. But give me a partner with a high pressure brawler build and I'll take out most tanks easy enough.

One of my favorite things in game is running through cyro and coming across one of those impossible to kill tanks sitting there being tickled by 10 other individuals with their health bar barely moving. I come in, start taking chunks out of their health bar enough for them to panik and go off their normal defensive rotation. This throws their sustain off giving the group an opening to finish them off while I back away to safety.

That's the best you can hope for in a tank buster. A build that could take them out 1vs1 just isn't realistic, nor is it necessary as they're pretty harmless on their own.

Tigeracer · July 2023

I've got no problem with unkillable tanks in this game. My problem is with that same unkillable tank turning around and slapping my ass back to base with relative ease.
Also annoying when they just sit on a point in battlegrounds 😢

merpins · July 2023

When the game came out, classes were like rock-paper-scissors. DK was weak against NB. NB was weak against Templar. Templar was weak against Sorc. Sorc was weak against DK. I believe that was how it was for about a year or two. Balance changes and additional classes made that rock-paper-scissors style stop working, but what you're suggesting is basically that. It doesn't quite work anymore, but I would love to see more love to all the classes in the game. Make a benchmark, and balance all classes around that benchmark for PVP, and balance PVE separately.

Alharion · July 2023

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

IF you want NB to become a tank killer, we will remove all of it's power from the class. The power will only manifest upon getting into battle with a tank.

Do you really want this? Remember they will have to be built from the ground up. We will remove cloak. As it won't be needed to be a tank killer.

1. If HP greater than 40k NBs gain X against that player
2. if Defense is greater than 30k NBs gain X against that player
3. While enemy is shielding NBs X Y Z
4. When HP is greater than 40k, their health is leeched from them healing you.

Note that to be a tank killer, you don't need cloak, grim, crit, Heals, etc. That would make you more than a tank killer.

You don't want NB to become a tank killer, you want them to continue to become OP. If you can't kill a tank, group up and kill him.

What I'm especially sick and tired of seeing is tanks jumping around like idiots with no gameplay to speak of because whatever x number of players try to do to them doesn't affect them in the slightest and they allow themselves to taunt players without needing any gameplay.

What I'm sick and tired of seeing is so-called attacks with like 10k dps or ultimates that barely scratch the surface. Right now the devs are raging against DPS and criticising them, it's time to look at where there are serious problems and abuse and stop raging against the same thing that's been through enough as it is!

Rampeal · July 2023

You are most likely not fighting Tanks. A Tank is a class with 40k+ health and at least 40k+ physical/spell resistance to negate armor pen. Not to mention stacking crit resist. These are True Tanks and they sacrifice so much DPS to be unlikable that NB should not be able to easily melt them down, especially 1v1. These Tank main goals are to buff and hold flags. That is their role.

Why is it that everytime a Tank or Healer comes up with a good build that Damage Dealers cry out for nerfs, yet when the Damage Dealers get nerfed they cry "Unfair"? Pvp is more than just "Damage Dealers goes BRRRRR". And I agree 💯% that spell/weapon damage should have zero effect of heals. Heals should 💯% scale with Stamina, Magicka, and Health. Then maybe you would actually see unique builds again rather than just stacking Crit/Damage. Life would change for Damage Dealers when they are not able to hit those constant heals.

Alharion · July 2023

Rampeal wrote: »

You are most likely not fighting Tanks. A Tank is a class with 40k+ health and at least 40k+ physical/spell resistance to negate armor pen. Not to mention stacking crit resist. These are True Tanks and they sacrifice so much DPS to be unlikable that NB should not be able to easily melt them down, especially 1v1. These Tank main goals are to buff and hold flags. That is their role.

Why is it that everytime a Tank or Healer comes up with a good build that Damage Dealers cry out for nerfs, yet when the Damage Dealers get nerfed they cry "Unfair"? Pvp is more than just "Damage Dealers goes BRRRRR". And I agree 💯% that spell/weapon damage should have zero effect of heals. Heals should 💯% scale with Stamina, Magicka, and Health. Then maybe you would actually see unique builds again rather than just stacking Crit/Damage. Life would change for Damage Dealers when they are not able to hit those constant heals.

If that's the case, why is it always the DPS who has to suffer nerfs, and in particular the same class who has suffered nerfs since the game was released? It's the sad solution used time and time again in MMORPG nerf nerf nerf nerf and it ends up being annoying...