So does Zenimax Studios have an explanation for this situation involving a Trans employee ?

sean.plackerb14_ESO · July 2023

Just watched the video and came to check out the forums.

The part at 8:27 genuinely put a lump in my throat. And that incredibly cold reply of "I don't understand". Sickening.

And the IT department not changing her username. I'm sure they probably weren't even asked to by this... manager. But if they were and they truly had trouble CHANGING A USERNAME, it's no wonder at all large PVP battles still run like junk, choke the server (had a random DC during a fortress siege last night) etc.

Whoever that manager/supervisor is I hope they either no longer work at ZOS or are terminated because they absolutely deserve it.

Also. Offering a deal to someone for them to resign and be unable to sue means they KNOW they would most likely lose that lawsuit.

Won't surprise me if they lock this thread. Either that or just be 100 percent radio silent till people forget and move on. Then again this isn't getting any coverage from those mainstream gaming sites. It's all about being a branch of BGS and hypring Starfield baby.

"If you quit quietly, we'll pay for your surgery".

Bethetic.

16BitForestCat · July 2023

@Tyrobius

I know it's not going to stop people in this thread (and out there in the world) from playing willfully ignorant for their sake of their harmful agendas, but....Thank you so much for standing up for marginalized folk in a sea of bad actors.

I'm still side-eyeing the absolute hell out of the mods who are letting too many TOS-violating, openly transphobic posts stay up, while randomly deleting posts (that don't violate TOS) from people speaking up against bigotry. That's why I'm editing this older post rather than making a new one--the mods have already targeted all my other posts in this thread asking why they're not doing their jobs here. Apparently, they're fine with all the blatant and dogwhistle transphobia here, but not with their lack of work ethic being criticized. Even knowing not everyone at ZOS is a bad apple, Leona's situation and how this thread has been handled has absolutely negatively affected my opinion. Not just of ZOS staff in general, but of the game itself. I was already experiencing a bit of burn-out in ESO and thinking of a short break because I still loved the thought of coming back to play. But now I find myself actively cringing at the thought of logging in. The wonderful world I was so proud to inhabit for nearly a decade since beta has now become tainted for me. And even if I start actively playing again in the future, those feelings won't change if the bigotry, both in these forums and the alleged bigotry against Leona, aren't positively handled. It's what will lead to me pulling my ESO+ sub money, and all the money I used to spend on buying Crowns, and taking my business elsewhere. I've got a huge backlog of games, after all. I don't have to stay where the leadership makes it clear LGBTQIA+ people like me aren't wanted because they're catering to bigots.

Cazador · July 2023

sean.plackerb14_ESO wrote: »

Also. Offering a deal to someone for them to resign and be unable to sue means they KNOW they would most likely lose that lawsuit.

This particular part definitely made me raise an eyebrow. At best it looks bad.

Caligamy_ESO · July 2023

I can tell half the people didn't read any articles or watch any videos on this subject before they started typing out dismissive opinions about it.. so here ya go, an article:

https://www.thegamer.com/elder-scrolls-online-dev-transphobia-deadnaming-allegations-bethesda-zenimax/

So you can at least speak like you're mildly informed.

Jamie_Aubrey · July 2023

If they didn't do anything about Rich's wife taking a poke at PVP'ers during one of his streams then sadly they will have nothing to say about this

AzuraFan · July 2023

Why is this here? I come here to read about the game, not about HR issues and someone's revenge YouTube video.

(The company won't say anything for privacy reasons. As it shouldn't.)

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

I can tell half the people didn't read any articles or watch any videos on this subject before they started typing out dismissive opinions about it.. so here ya go, an article:

https://www.thegamer.com/elder-scrolls-online-dev-transphobia-deadnaming-allegations-bethesda-zenimax/

So you can at least speak like you're mildly informed.

It’s just excuses and entitlement mixed with an exaggerating plea for an emotional response.

To anyone surprised by ZOS for writing up a deal, and encouraging Faren, a worker that was struggling to keep up with deadlines, to quit. I want you to consider what happens to any company when they fire someone that belongs to a group, or union.

They get persecuted.

People are tired of it, they are exhausted by woke identity politics. When people stop trying to create artificial reasons for why they are special compared to everyone else, they can finally open their eyes and realize we’re all just people and nobody is entitled.

So many want to watch the world burn, and tear down the things that others love. Which shouldn’t be ESO if you’re here on these forums.

That is my final piece on this topic.

LuC1ll3atTh3Wh33L · July 2023

danggit! there's a lot of venom in this thread.

Soraka · July 2023

I don't want ESO to get torn down or burned. But if employees who work on the game are being mistreated I do care about that. Mistreated employees probably don't turn out great results. I don't have a huge opinion on the topic because I don't really know everything as pointed out it's one sided report. I just don't know that it should be buried because we like a game.

spartaxoxo · July 2023

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

I can tell half the people didn't read any articles or watch any videos on this subject before they started typing out dismissive opinions about it.. so here ya go, an article:

https://www.thegamer.com/elder-scrolls-online-dev-transphobia-deadnaming-allegations-bethesda-zenimax/

So you can at least speak like you're mildly informed.

Thank you for this. I didn't have time to look at everything just because the videos were so long. This is pretty awful.

Locking someone out of their ability to do their job and then blaming them for the job not getting done. Yeah, sure. That's totally reasonable. Just the other day I refused my plumber entry into my house and then sued him for failing to fix my pipe. /S

Lumenn · July 2023

Well, from the article it says they sometime later went back, took the deal, took the money, signed away legal recourse, and then after a bit went online with their story. (In the vid I saw they turned it down, not knowing they went back and agreed to the deal) all I'm going to say is they better hope that there wasn't a nondisclosure clause in that deal somewhere.

spartaxoxo · July 2023

Lumenn wrote: »

Well, from the article it says they sometime later went back, took the deal, took the money, signed away legal recourse, and then after a bit went online with their story. (In the vid I saw they turned it down, not knowing they went back and agreed to the deal) all I'm going to say is they better hope that there wasn't a nondisclosure clause in that deal somewhere.

Yeah. I hope they read it over closely and are legally clear.

MidniteOwl1913 · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Tyrobius wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Tyrobius wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Do you think that perhaps the reason they were fired had nothing to do with their transition?

Watch the video before you ask questions like this, dude.

As a paying employer, it is well within your right to want employees that aren’t constantly creating their own schedule due to an elective surgery, or process.

Which doubles back to the point I was making.

The reason they were fired had nothing to do with their transition, and everything to do with how their work ethic was being impacted.

Gender affirming care is not elective.

Yeah, good luck finding an insurance that will pay for your surgeries.

My heath care covers it.

Kaiser, it's one of the largest health care providers on the west coast.

Narvuntien · July 2023

I posted this and went to bed expecting it to be locked when I woke up. I am glad that it is not.
I checked to see if it was BGS or Zenimax before posting and it is Zenimax online studios.

I don't think Zenimax can really avoid there being the occasional bad, anti or just trans-confused manager, which appears to be the case initially. But then when it is moved up the HR train there needs to be better accountability for that manager and steps taken to solve the issue. It appears their manager was changed but then the previous manager was able to give a bad review that was taken seriously despite what was clearly an interpersonal issue.

What I expect from Zenimax, is not on this forum but a proper press release, an apology for its bad HR practices and a commitment to handle trans issues better in the future.

RaikaNA · July 2023

How come is taking the forum moderators this long to close down a thread that doesn't belong here?

Saint-Ange · July 2023

what are the odds of getting perma banned from both the forum and the game for posting this?
I'd say 95-100 %, so why OP?
Do you even know that person?
Is it worth it?
You knew what was going to happen, right?

p00tx · July 2023

Dr_Con wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Do you think that perhaps the reason they were fired had nothing to do with their transition?

I for one think it's incredibly brave of someone to tell their boss they won't be working 4 hours of an 8 hour shift multiple times and to secretly record conversations with their manager about it, then post it online.

They used PTO, which is to be used at the employee's discretion. A person's health decisions aren't up for discussion due to HIPAA laws, so bad boss.

RadagastThePink · July 2023

Narvuntien wrote: »

I posted this and went to bed expecting it to be locked when I woke up. I am glad that it is not.
I checked to see if it was BGS or Zenimax before posting and it is Zenimax online

I don't think Zenimax can really avoid there being the occasional bad, anti or just trans-confused manager, which appears to be the case initially. But then when it is moved up the HR train there needs to be better accountability for that manager and steps taken to solve the issue. It appears their manager was changed but then the previous manager was able to give a bad review that was taken seriously despite what was clearly an interpersonal issue.

What I expect from Zenimax, is not on this forum but a proper press release, an apology for its bad HR practices and a commitment to handle trans issues better in the future.

Thank you for posting. This is shocking to see when Zos has had a fairly strong track record of including LGBT characters in their story telling. Very disappointing.

SeaGtGruff · July 2023

I don't think the OP is going to be perma-banned for posting this given that it's remained unlocked and undeleted for so long.

On the other hand, I don't think this forum is an appropriate place to discuss ZOS personnel (past or present) or matters that relate to them, so it really should be locked.

Groterdan · July 2023

I don't care . Why do we need to read this here? I want to read stuff about the game content nothing else.

AzuraFan wrote: »

Why is this here? I come here to read about the game, not about HR issues and someone's revenge YouTube video.

(The company won't say anything for privacy reasons. As it shouldn't.)

Can't agree more. Unfortunately you can hardly say something that doesn't fit the pushed agenda 😞

Xandreia_ · July 2023

I'm always the first to call zos out on bs, but why should they have an explanation for this? We have only heard 1 side of this and that could/was most likely taken way out of context for the most part. We didn't see their deadlines/work prior to being fired. We don't know if their work suffered or what it was like working for them. They also illegally recorded conversations in the work place then posted them online. If anything zos could sue them for privacy violations. For a company like this, deadline's and punctuality matters along with quality of work, if any of these 3 deteriorate they were 100% have the right to dismis that employee. Also, the whole dead name thing. They changed their pic but they didn't say anywhere that they officially changed their name on company records. Unless you change a name on legal records its not a name change 🤷‍♀️. This isn't the place for this. If zos wish to speak out on this and give their side then great. But they won't. Privacy and data protection would be completely ruined and they would open themselves to a full on legal nightmare.

Xandreia_ · July 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

People are tired of it, they are exhausted by woke identity politics. When people stop trying to create artificial reasons for why they are special compared to everyone else, they can finally open their eyes and realize we’re all just people and nobody is entitled.

THIS.

spartaxoxo · July 2023

RadagastThePink wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

I posted this and went to bed expecting it to be locked when I woke up. I am glad that it is not.
I checked to see if it was BGS or Zenimax before posting and it is Zenimax online

I don't think Zenimax can really avoid there being the occasional bad, anti or just trans-confused manager, which appears to be the case initially. But then when it is moved up the HR train there needs to be better accountability for that manager and steps taken to solve the issue. It appears their manager was changed but then the previous manager was able to give a bad review that was taken seriously despite what was clearly an interpersonal issue.

What I expect from Zenimax, is not on this forum but a proper press release, an apology for its bad HR practices and a commitment to handle trans issues better in the future.

Thank you for posting. This is shocking to see when Zos has had a fairly strong track record of including LGBT characters in their story telling. Very disappointing.

Yeah. I couldn't agree more. It's sad to see the venomous line of thought against that employee at their workplace.

Expecting that your name is correct on your name badge, and that an employer doesn't physically prevent you from working and then fire you for not working is not special treatment. That you literally have a correct name badge, the job equipment actually works, and that you can use your PTO for medical procedures. That is not special treatment.

These are simple things that every employee should have a right to. I work from home remotely. I have never been told that I should have been working when their technical problems prevent that. Not even once. They always resolve it quickly too.

I always have the correct name on my employee id, which is something that's important from a security standpoint too. That is bare minimum right there.

Narvuntien · July 2023

Saint-Ange wrote: »

what are the odds of getting perma banned from both the forum and the game for posting this?
I'd say 95-100 %, so why OP?
Do you even know that person?
Is it worth it?
You knew what was going to happen, right?

I don't see why that would happen. I am not posting threats, simply asking for an explanation.

Fighting for human rights is always worth it, expecting accountability from the companies and governments that are part of your life is important.

RaikaNA · July 2023

Narvuntien wrote: »

Saint-Ange wrote: »

what are the odds of getting perma banned from both the forum and the game for posting this?
I'd say 95-100 %, so why OP?
Do you even know that person?
Is it worth it?
You knew what was going to happen, right?

I don't see why that would happen. I am not posting threats, simply asking for an explanation.

Fighting for human rights is always worth it, expecting accountability from the companies and governments that are part of your life is important.

I don't want to see you banned, but according to ZOS... and they're quite touchy about this... what you're doing may be considered "Baiting". You're opening up a discussion that is highly political that may cause heated up arguments.

This isn't a human rights advocacy forum. This forum is about ESO - Elder Scrolls Online. It's a gaming community.

Also, ZOS doesn't owe you an explanation over an article that you read on some site, or finish watching a video from youtube that came from a disgruntled former employee. Do you honestly believe that you were going to get an official response? Maybe they're not allowed to talk about it due to legal reasons? I honestly don't care. What I care about is reading the patch notes and hoping that the developers fix the game.

Narvuntien · July 2023

RaikaNA wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

Saint-Ange wrote: »

what are the odds of getting perma banned from both the forum and the game for posting this?
I'd say 95-100 %, so why OP?
Do you even know that person?
Is it worth it?
You knew what was going to happen, right?

I don't see why that would happen. I am not posting threats, simply asking for an explanation.

Fighting for human rights is always worth it, expecting accountability from the companies and governments that are part of your life is important.

I don't want to see you banned, but according to ZOS... and they're quite touchy about this... what you're doing may be considered "Baiting". You're opening up a discussion that is highly political that may cause heated up arguments.

This isn't a human rights advocacy forum. This forum is about ESO - Elder Scrolls Online. It's a gaming community.

Also, ZOS doesn't owe you an explanation over an article that you read on some site, or finish watching a video from youtube that came from a disgruntled former employee. Do you honestly believe that you were going to get an official response? Maybe they're not allowed to talk about it due to legal reasons? I honestly don't care. What I care about is reading the patch notes and hoping that the developers fix the game.

Why did you bother to make a post then? if it's not something you care about move on.

Okay, I am making the title of the thread to be more specific to prevent any further "baiting" hopefully you'll be more comfortable not knowing that the company and studio that makes the game feels okay firing employees because one of their managers appears to be transphobic and gave them a bad internal review.

The evidence provided is pretty damming, its 4 hours!

Tra_Lalan · July 2023

ZOS is a big company, and has many employes. Im sure they had many disputes with their workers during so many years of beeing around. Maybe some of them were worked out, others ended with lawsuits. Some of them were ZOS's fault other their worksers fault. Thats just how the world works.

However this person is the first one making an internet drama about it, which already gives me some opinion about who was right in this dispute. We live in a civilized world, we have laws, courts and judges to say who is right and who isn't. Youtube is not the place to solve those problems, and this forum isn't it either.

Lady_Galadhiel · July 2023

Groterdan wrote: »

I don't care . Why do we need to read this here? I want to read stuff about the game content nothing else.

AzuraFan wrote: »

Why is this here? I come here to read about the game, not about HR issues and someone's revenge YouTube video.

(The company won't say anything for privacy reasons. As it shouldn't.)

Can't agree more. Unfortunately you can hardly say something that doesn't fit the pushed agenda 😞

Yep,highly agree. This forum is not the place for this kind of subjects.

Pepegrillos · July 2023

This case matters because it shows that Zenimax's actions contradict their public speech. They simply don't practice what they preach. Zenimax is constantly boasting about their inclusivity, the whole #ESOFAM speech, and the like. And yet, this is how they treat some of their workers.

wilykcat · July 2023

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Groterdan wrote: »

I don't care . Why do we need to read this here? I want to read stuff about the game content nothing else.

AzuraFan wrote: »

Why is this here? I come here to read about the game, not about HR issues and someone's revenge YouTube video.

(The company won't say anything for privacy reasons. As it shouldn't.)

Can't agree more. Unfortunately you can hardly say something that doesn't fit the pushed agenda 😞

Yep,highly agree. This forum is not the place for this kind of subjects.

Same here.

This discussion should belong more on social media like reddit as it contains very controversial content.

I rather see stuff about the game on the forums and not about someone's personal information, real-world controversial topics, and/or personal decisions/life style.

Also the videos of the rant are blocked on my internet for containing sensitive content. I also have restricted mode set up on my Google account.