2x furnishings should not require ESO+

Tyrant_Tim · June 2023

Shortly after dropping ESO+, it became apparent that I could no longer participate in Housing due to the loss of what had become the “standard” for furnishing capacity in homes.

None of my creations can ever be what I want them to be with only half of my slots available, so my drive to purchase furnishings from the crown store has flown out the window.

To date, I have obtained every Mundus Stone, all of the Vampire feeding utilities, an Iron Atronach trial dummy; over 6 different furnishing packs, 5 of the major statues, and lastly two 10,000+ crown notable homes just to name a few of my purchases...

None of those things were purchased as of last year, when the notorious game breaking block bug around last holiday season killed my motivation to subscribe, in fact I have purchased nothing housing related whatsoever since.

Outside of a certain pastry I was blessed with as a byproduct of a Crown Crate bundle purchase.

From a business standpoint, this outdated ESO+ “bonus” is effectively cutting off sales, and is worth doubling back to, especially as this was added to ESO+ at a time when the subscription had significantly less value. There are plenty of other more important ESO+ exclusives, like the craft bag. It is now 2023… there are countless DLC that contribute to the sale of the subscription now.

By some miracle chance that this gets seen by the right people and this gets changed, I would love to return to Housing and continue purchasing furnishings as it was one of my favorite pastimes when I needed a break in ESO.

colossalvoids · June 2023

Strangely enough I agree, guess they've planned housing as an endgame showoff rather than an actual playing style people made it to be eventually. It's nowadays more like if you weren't able to do dungeons or raid without ESO plus.

Kesstryl · June 2023

They could make a furniture slot an ESO + feature to help us unload our extra furnishings, and make houses hold max furnishings for all players. That way ESO+ doesn't lose anything, and people who don't sub can still buy furnishings off the Crown store to fill their homes.

Tyrant_Tim · June 2023

Kesstryl wrote: »

They could make a furniture slot an ESO + feature to help us unload our extra furnishings, and make houses hold max furnishings for all players. That way ESO+ doesn't lose anything, and people who don't sub can still buy furnishings off the Crown store to fill their homes.

That would be an easy compromise that would ultimately benefit all parties, it’s extremely outdated having half of our slots available as a standard non-subscribed player.

Braffin · June 2023

Now you got me curious: What happens to furniture exceeding the limit after you cancel eso+ (I'm subbed permanently and can't test this myself.)?

FantasticFreddie · June 2023

Braffin wrote: »

Now you got me curious: What happens to furniture exceeding the limit after you cancel eso+ (I'm subbed permanently and can't test this myself.)?

Nothing. If you are at 700/700, they all stay put, but if you remove one you can't replace it until you are below 350

Braffin · June 2023

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Now you got me curious: What happens to furniture exceeding the limit after you cancel eso+ (I'm subbed permanently and can't test this myself.)?

Nothing. If you are at 700/700, they all stay put, but if you remove one you can't replace it until you are below 350

Thanks for the info.

Gruumsh1 · June 2023

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

By some miracle chance that this gets seen by the right people and this gets changed, I would love to return to Housing and continue purchasing furnishings as it was one of my favorite pastimes when I needed a break in ESO.

It's as simple as re-subscribing.

edit - sorry I didn't mean that to sound so adversarial. I meant that you should just simply re-subscribe as ZOS has little interest in you not doing so, so they will be unlikely to do anything for you.

Tyrant_Tim · June 2023

Gruumsh1 wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

By some miracle chance that this gets seen by the right people and this gets changed, I would love to return to Housing and continue purchasing furnishings as it was one of my favorite pastimes when I needed a break in ESO.

It's as simple as re-subscribing.

edit - sorry I didn't mean that to sound so adversarial. I meant that you should just simply re-subscribe as ZOS has little interest in you not doing so, so they will be unlikely to do anything for you.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, having housing access exclusively as a sub benefit, they have zeroed all potential housing revenue that would have been made since the time my ESO+ lost its value, as the justification for spending, at least for me… was that we were getting a quality product.

Lately these patches have not been quality, when that changes and we stop breaking core combat or destroying classes every update, we can discuss the renewal of my membership.

Also, to consider my money contribution inconsequential, would be to completely ignore all of my spending spent outside of ESO+…

When you OWN every DLC, every chapter, 3 Crown Store notables homes, every Mundus Stone, several large statue furnishing packs, 43 mounts, 126 non-combat pets, 67 costumes, both bundle polymorphs, and have spent more on Race and Alliance Changing than you would care to mention, your voice matters, regardless of whether you continue to subscribe.

calitrumanb14_ESO · June 2023

I feel that if you buy a Crown Store exclusive home, which costs real money to purchase (not in-game gold) then you should have full furniture capacity in that home regardless of ESO+ status. It's absurd that a house purchase of $100+ would only have 350 furnishing slots if you aren't a monthly subscriber.

ADarklore · July 2023

On the other hand, ZOS needs a continuous flow of revenue. As someone who has spent thousands of dollars in this game over the years, I can also understand how much money it takes to keep the game afloat. People don't seem to grasp how much it actually takes to pay all the bills and yet also generate enough revenue to justify continued development on the game. As new MMOs and other games come out, it draws more players away... that and poor decisions by ZOS like U35 also drives people away.

So it's difficult for me to fault them for adding incentive for players to sub; not only with furnishing upgrades but there's also the crafting bag. Now if someone chooses to spent tons of money on the game and then decides they no longer want to support the game, as in canceling their sub, this is not contributing to the continued development of the game. In fact, it could be said that it's leading to the eventual demise of the game... and then where are your houses, mundus stones, mounts, combat pets?!? ALL GONE.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

@ADarklore, it’s not a matter of fault, it’s a matter of understanding that the 2x furnishing capacity is an outdated “feature” of ESO+ that was established in a time when housing had an uncertain future, aswell as there only being 3 notable homes in the entirety of the game, none of which being exclusive to the crown store, all while there were only 4 DLC provided through your subscription… there was little value.

There are countless players like me, that supported this game for almost a century, and continue to support the game, while none of that support has anything to do with housing. Housing isn’t the only thing that has value, or sells in the game. Just look at crown crates, DLCs, expansions, armory loadouts, skill lines… etc.

You mentioned incentive earlier, that ESO+ needs incentive. For players that do not own any of their DLC, the subscription has immense value within that exclusively… 30 DLC now. I trust you can see the value difference between 4 and 30. For players like me that own every DLC, and have found a work around for the craft bag, buying every housing storage coffer to store their gear, that same “incentive” mentioned is no longer necessary, which is clear by my continued refusal to purchase ESO+, now became a disincentive to purchase any housing related content whatsoever.

As a subscriber, would you not rather have this “perk” become standard, and have a completely different benefit as pertains to housing?

MoonPile · July 2023

I agree; there are tons of other reasons to have ESO+

...and there is potential to replace the current system. For one, a lot of people would buy more slots for existing homes.

1. although they state the reason is mostly console limitations, the limits feel artificial. Like if I want to cram 700 furnishings into Sleek Creek (I really, really do, and my PC can handle it), that's no different from stuffing that many in a small, cobbled space in any of the Notable homes. In terms of poly counts and texture data, it's the same. (Unless there's something weird about data in smaller homes that we don't know.)

The main issue, I guess, would be complaints from players on older consoles, if slot upgrading was not available to them. If ZOS released it for everyone, there would definitely be tons of people who'd overload their houses past their own system specs. Dealing with that would be a nightmare for Support.

2. Speaking of data, this has been brought up before too, but there's a ton of actual, fully-textured, interactive geometry outside of the houses. It's great that we can place furnishings outside the house and I don't want to lost that ability, but also kind of insane how far it goes. There are videos of players clipping out way outside of the house, traveling to the next town. If it's a data load issue, why not make the zones smaller? Nobody should be able to get out there through normal means anyway, so can't it be replaced with a skybox past some point? - Probably, but this is surely near the bottom of the Dev priority list.

Roxxsmom · July 2023

I definitely wish there were a way they could expand furniture slots past the current limits for everyone. It's hard to believe the game has the same limitations it did ten years ago when it launched. However, I can also see how they wouldn't want to "advance" the game's minimum spec in a way that breaks it for folks playing on the same computer or console as they started with and can't afford to upgrade. Wish there were a solution to this conundrum, since there are so many lovely and large houses in the game that feel rather empty after furnishing limit is reached (even for the ESO+ members). Or you have to choose to have a lovely interior or a lovely yard, but not both.

It makes sense to allow houses purchased on the crown store to have the crown+ furnishing limit for non members, though. They have blown a wad of "real world" cash on the game, and I suspect folks who buy lots of crowns keep the revenue stream flowing too.

Saint-Ange · July 2023

Let at least non suscribers buy extended furnishing coupons in the crown store to use on their favorite houses to unlock the non ESO+ limit

Starbridge84 · July 2023

I would be ok with seeing the x2 furnishings as the new standard, and in place of that, ESO+ members get a furnishing box (like the craft bag) that has unlimited space for furnishings only.

I keep loosing items in my storage houses and can never remember where things get placed!

zetavivern · July 2023

ADarklore wrote: »

On the other hand, ZOS needs a continuous flow of revenue. As someone who has spent thousands of dollars in this game over the years, I can also understand how much money it takes to keep the game afloat. People don't seem to grasp how much it actually takes to pay all the bills and yet also generate enough revenue to justify continued development on the game. As new MMOs and other games come out, it draws more players away... that and poor decisions by ZOS like U35 also drives people away.

So it's difficult for me to fault them for adding incentive for players to sub; not only with furnishing upgrades but there's also the crafting bag. Now if someone chooses to spent tons of money on the game and then decides they no longer want to support the game, as in canceling their sub, this is not contributing to the continued development of the game. In fact, it could be said that it's leading to the eventual demise of the game... and then where are your houses, mundus stones, mounts, combat pets?!? ALL GONE.

ESO is more monetized than many free-to-play MMOs.
- Every dungeon in the last few years is paid. Or accessed with subscription, but I'll get to that later.
- Every small dlc that complements the year's story since Elsweyr is paid, you literally can't finish the plot of a chapter you already paid real money for unless you also bought a dlc or ESO+. This year they finally changed it for Necrom, but it remains that way for previous chapters.
- Every single mount except for standard horses and rare limited-time event mounts is paid. And hooo boy is there a lot of those (literally hundreds, if you're curious). I struggle to think of any f2p MMO that would have so many ridiculous immersion-breaking mounts.
- All assistants cost about the same as the entire game, depending on your local crown prices. Want to be able to summon a banker anywhere - $40. A merchant - another $40. And if you want a merchant with a different appearance, you don't just buy a skin, no, it's another $40.
- Almost every crown-exclusive house literally costs more than the entire game. Think about it. A single house in a game costs more than that game's full price, often twice more.
- And in those houses for which you've paid so much you can only fill half of available furnishing slots unless you pay for subscription.

But what about that subscription? Well, here's how it works: when you subscribe, you get access to all those dungeons and dlcs, and then you lose that when your subscription ends.
In SWTOR, for example, when your subscription ends, you keep access to all dlcs that were accessible at the time you were subscribed, and you're only restricted from future dlcs.
Show these two sentences to someone who hasn't played either and ask them, which game do they think is f2p.

Okay, but you also get 1650 crowns per month, or 19800 per year, that's gotta compensate for something, right?
Not really.
Most of crown exclusive houses cost over 10k crowns. Quite a few cost 14k, and there's three for 15k, and we're talking unfurnished. That means that even if you subscribe for a whole year you'll probably be able to buy only one house, and unless you buy more crowns directly, you'll have to prioritize between buying some nice furniture, a mount, a couple of dlcs or an assistant.

I love this game, I truly do. But I swear it's the most f2p-like paid game I ever played.
And yeah, maintaining the game and making new content costs a lot of money, for sure, but there should be limits on what you can justify with this. The game is ridiculously monetized, and locking furniture slots in a house you already paid real money for behind a constant paywall is a little too greedy in my opinion.

P.S. On the subject of not supproting the game anymore when you stop your subscription... How about all support you've already given? If you bought the game on release and then bought every chapter, you've given ZOS hundreds of dollars by now even if you never subscribed, whereas a new player will get ALL chapters for $60. Who's more loyal here really? The game already heavily favors new players over old, there's no need to additionally fault old players for devs not getting more money.

M_Volsung · July 2023

Braffin wrote: »

Thanks for the info.

And the undo feature wont put it back either.

Amottica · July 2023

It is and has been an ESO+ perk, If Zenimax raised the cap for non-ESO+ the would increase the cap for ESO+. It is really no different than the crafting bag.

spartaxoxo · July 2023

I agree with this completely. It's very different from the craft bag because it changes the actual gameplay of a very popular in-game feature. It was implemented at a time when they didn't expect people to actually interact with their houses much and didn't even have structural furniture for building.

While it's now been a couple of years since I played unsubbed, I very much remember going without the sub at times. And while I didn't want to be subbed, I also didn't want to participate in housing. Not because I was no longer interested but because it felt like a waste of money without plus since I only got half the furnishing slots. It had a completely chilling effect on all of my spending due to this.

Tyrant_Tim · July 2023

If we don’t hear about this tomorrow during the QoL U39 reveal, it’s unlikely to happen anytime soon.

Fingers crossed, if not, I can officially write off Housing for another year.

jsjem · July 2023

I hope the furnishing limit could double too. If we can put 700 mermaids at home, why I can't bring more pets or houseguests back home? I believe those 'traditional' statues sell better than other special ones.