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Thanks for destroying Stamblades for absolute no reason.
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OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭@MudcrabAttack I haven't been following the discussion very closely so I'm sorry if this has already been covered or isn't any help... But... For your second AoE spammable have you considered Silver Shards? It isn't a bow ability but at the same time it kinda is. You may still feel like NB is suffering but it could allow you to keep your style.1 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread sounds like NB mains aren't aware of a skill called "Shade". Making a detect potion for billion meters does not really affect NB in any significant way
NB is still the best PVP class that ever was4 -
M0ntie✭✭✭✭✭ZoS are always nerfing and changing which class is BIS and it was entirely predictable that archanist would be strong.
I have one or two of each class levelled so when ZoS nerf one into the ground, I can just swap. Keeps life interesting.1 -
Zastrix✭✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »This thread sounds like NB mains aren't aware of a skill called "Shade". Making a detect potion for billion meters does not really affect NB in any significant way
NB is still the best PVP class that ever was
I mean the thread was basically for PvE. Also you're gonna use magblades in PvP kekw110-114k Stage 4 Vamprie Magblade u39
Aldmeri Dominion did nothing wrong in Shadowfen.7 -
StihlReign✭✭✭✭100% Logical move to nerf to the ground something that is already nerfed while buffing what is already overpowered.
Thanks a lot, I highly appreciate it.
EDIT: In case it wasn't clear, talking about CW nerf which is flat 10% damage nerf to stamblade (spamming it is huge DPS loss and sustain it will limit our dynamics on other magicka abilities which we already limited by)
So I am pretty sure this nerf is purposely made to discriminates people from using Nightblades and Stamina Nightblades especially, I don't see how its coincidence.
After playing live and almost extensively in PvP (a little PvE in the Necrom Patch, more this weekend), this change feels clunky and bad.
Hybrid, Mag or Stam. This change feels like extra work, clunky, and is a drop in damage output. Not parsing play. Real play, real awkward rotations. The need to add armor or be forced to use another skill as a prerequisite to maintain the core skill uptime is also limiting.
"O divine art of subtlety and secrecy!
Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible; and hence we can hold the enemy’s fate in our hands.” – Ch. VI, v. 8-9. — Master Sun Tzu
"You haven't beaten me you've sacrificed sure footing for a killing stroke." — Ra's al Ghul
He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious — Master Sun Tzu
LoS1 -
master_vanargand✭✭✭✭✭
✭"Concealed Weapon" has "your damage done is increased by 10%" and "increasing your Movement Speed by 15%".
"Surprise Attack" has "the Sundered status effect".
Don't you feel "game balance is bad" comparing these two?
Need move Concealed Weapon's "your damage done is increased by 10%" to Veiled Strike (base skill).
Don't penalize people who like "Stamina Nightblade DPS".
I'm not asking you to do anything difficult.
"Play how you like" requires "game balance".2 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭MudcrabAttack wrote: »But acid spray spam is getting nerfed, the DOT won’t apply anymore when cast consecutively. Now I’m supposed to cast ground AOE DOTs, run up to a single enemy and hit them with concealed weapon (rather than an AOE spammable - same thing a magblade would have to do when trying to buff AOE damage), then cast acid spray once, then because I’m playing a nightblade slot another AOE spammable and that’s where I draw the line, it’s getting really dumb at that point. Both AOE and single target dps is deep in the hole at the point where I have to use yet another spammable besides lethal arrow, acid spray and concealed weapon. I could replace acid spray with something else, but it’s not the type of gameplay I like.
I get it. I do. I have been there with my MagBlade, my MagPlar, my StamPlar, my StamDen, my MagDen and my StamCro. Man, I played a MagSorc heavy attack build in CP1.0 , back in 2019 when there was neither Oakensoul nor Empower buffing heavy attacks by 80%. And then ZOS nerfed that into Oblivion...
And I will be at this point with with my StamDK and my MagArc in a couple o years. I am pretty sure about that... 😓
But I still play them the way I want. If ZOS thinks that my playstyle should be nerfed, so be it. I can have fun without ZOS. 😁
My MagBlade, MagPlar and StamDen are still kicking budds. 👀 ...Edited by Zodiarkslayer on July 5, 2023 3:28PMIf anyone here says: OH! But, PVP! I swear I'll ...
Thank you for the valuable input and respectfully recommend to discuss that aspect of ESO on the PVP forum.1 -
birdik✭✭✭Speaking of stamblades:
ambush, killer blade, relentless focus - are also weaker versions of magicka morphs3 -
Eliran✭✭✭✭✭Speaking of stamblades:
ambush, killer blade, relentless focus - are also weaker versions of magicka morphs
That by itself is a long time "Why exactly?" moment .. I have no idea why ZoS hate us so much ..
I think its the fact its the most fun class to play so they are scared no one play the other classes if they make it even half decent.
1 -
Mackinsar✭✭✭I have a stamblade that I was once very happy with and proud of. Now he’s essentially a warehouse, because he’s useless in PVP.
It’s pretty obvious from the pattern of vicious nerfs (wardens, templars, necros, NBs, and - coming soon! - arcanists) that the devs intend for us all to be forced into playing only DK’s and sorcs if we want to be competitive. That’s just sad.
2 -
DrNukenstein✭✭✭✭✭Stamblade still has great solo kill potential and surprise attack is so much easier to sustain while dual wielding than concealed weapon.
I wouldn't say it's destroyed because it still feels better to play the spec than at any point before the killers blade rework and surprise attack crit.
It has some glaring issues though that hold it back compared to current magblade, and other high tier specs.
-1 guaranteed crit every 4 seconds is not worth a unique 10% damage when almost every nightblade has around 40% crit chance, although it is potent for ensuring a strong followup to incap
-No minor expedition hinders effectiveness in outnumbered situations. Shade helps, but only if it's setup and you have the mag to keep it setup (and the slot for it).
-lack of delayed, repeatable burst. We have boosted incap>spec bow. It's great when it hit's, but that's limited by a 120+ ultimate cost, a weaving minigame, and that your target is in a state where they can actually be hit by the most telegraphed and cued combo in the game.
-Our sources of major breach are tied to bad (mark) or clunky (crushing weapon) skills, or an entire 5 piece (night mothers gaze). Ele Susc is great though, like it's great for everyone if you can afford the slot and gcd
-Lack of space for roots, snares or simple stuns. We have core moves in Veiled strike, execute, cloak, and spec bow. We also need snare cleanse, a HOT, a burst heal, detection (build to not get one-upped!), and really should slot leeching/siphoning strikes. That's one non-ult flex slot. It can go to one non ult cc or dot move, or major breach, or shade, but it should go to a source of major brutality/sorcery so that you don't have to use noob potions.
Solutions/ideas:
-Differentiate Surprise attack as the defacto burst damage morph. Make the guaranteed crit do max crit damage, or have a base damage %multiplier. Make it stick out
-Move minor expedition from concealed weapon to shadowy disguise while slotted. Give concealed weapon a different minor, maybe minor force. This would point Stamblades towards race against time and magblades towards mist, creating some much needed spec identity
-Rework to shade and fear trap. Melee shade could be that delayed damage we really want, reactivate to make it repeat your next direct damage move for a % of the original damage, very cool noob-saibot stuff. Shadow image could be reactivated to fire what is essentially bombard with a lingering slow (for some nice soft cc). Rework fear traps to be lower cost and do the position switch, then if you don't have your shade set up or enough time to do "the trick" at least you have some hard cc.
-Change the stun duration on sneak attack passive to major breach on sneak attack. This would be huuuuuge
-Just make siphoning/leeching the major sorc/brut move. Everyone wants to have this buff up when they go in, they don't want to have to get it from a weak aoe move. Alternatively I think everyone likes the way Nightblades get major resolve, what if using any siphoning skill granted like 10 seconds of Major brut/sorcEdited by DrNukenstein on June 19, 2023 7:04PM0 -
Sikon✭✭✭Yes, I can confirm, the class design of Nightblades is incoherent especially since the hybradization. It is not possible anymore to combine a fluent playstyle with the abilities based on a Main Ressource (Mag or Stam).
You either loose a real strong execute (Stam) or a strong flat 10% dmg output (concealed Weapon), which is both needed atm to stay competetive with the other classes.
*we talking of PvE here*
In PvP the Nightblade can still perform pretty decent on Mag builds and some specific Stam builds.
But overall especially Stam based specs suffered alot and this class need a overall rework to make it viable again. Even Heal NBs now get swapped out on Raid Grps for Arcanists.. so probably the Meta will be without any Nightblades soon."Both light and shadow can be deadly, though only one chases the other.""Eyes open and walk with the shadows."0 -
Treeshka✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think this Concealed Weapon buff should not be in the class this way. I have tried playing Stamina Nightblade once and it is awful to track this buff and reapply when you are in actual raid.
For melee Magicka you can use it as spam skill so no need to track it extensively, but you still need to be in your own Twisting Path or having an external source for Major Expedition. External sources for Major Expedition is pretty rare in random groups unless you have a Nightblade healer which is in decline because of Arcanist healer.
This buff should be tied to Merciless Resolve because both specs of the class are using this skill. It can give this buff when you have five stacks, and after you fire you get five seconds more of this buff so you have time to charge Spectral Arrow again while having the buff.4 -
Eliran✭✭✭✭✭I think this Concealed Weapon buff should not be in the class this way. I have tried playing Stamina Nightblade once and it is awful to track this buff and reapply when you are in actual raid.
For melee Magicka you can use it as spam skill so no need to track it extensively, but you still need to be in your own Twisting Path or having an external source for Major Expedition. External sources for Major Expedition is pretty rare in random groups unless you have a Nightblade healer which is in decline because of Arcanist healer.
This buff should be tied to Merciless Resolve because both specs of the class are using this skill. It can give this buff when you have five stacks, and after you fire you get five seconds more of this buff so you have time to charge Spectral Arrow again while having the buff.
Yes, this guy is 100% on point, also give even more reason to weave and play skillfully to min max DPS!0 -
Zastrix✭✭✭✭✭I think this Concealed Weapon buff should not be in the class this way. I have tried playing Stamina Nightblade once and it is awful to track this buff and reapply when you are in actual raid.
For melee Magicka you can use it as spam skill so no need to track it extensively, but you still need to be in your own Twisting Path or having an external source for Major Expedition. External sources for Major Expedition is pretty rare in random groups unless you have a Nightblade healer which is in decline because of Arcanist healer.
This buff should be tied to Merciless Resolve because both specs of the class are using this skill. It can give this buff when you have five stacks, and after you fire you get five seconds more of this buff so you have time to charge Spectral Arrow again while having the buff.
Yes, this guy is 100% on point, also give even more reason to weave and play skillfully to min max DPS!
Touche. That would resolve the issues in exec as well as you'll have 5 stacks so it's basically up constantly when needed to.110-114k Stage 4 Vamprie Magblade u39
Aldmeri Dominion did nothing wrong in Shadowfen.0 -
highnds✭✭✭I think this Concealed Weapon buff should not be in the class this way. I have tried playing Stamina Nightblade once and it is awful to track this buff and reapply when you are in actual raid.
For melee Magicka you can use it as spam skill so no need to track it extensively, but you still need to be in your own Twisting Path or having an external source for Major Expedition. External sources for Major Expedition is pretty rare in random groups unless you have a Nightblade healer which is in decline because of Arcanist healer.
This buff should be tied to Merciless Resolve because both specs of the class are using this skill. It can give this buff when you have five stacks, and after you fire you get five seconds more of this buff so you have time to charge Spectral Arrow again while having the buff.
This guy gets it. I think that would be a perfect rework. Then CW can have a different effect (like applying a new debuff instead of the speed buff) which would be a little more in line with how SA applies a debuff. Maybe minor vulnerability or minor breach.0 -
Zastrix✭✭✭✭✭I think this Concealed Weapon buff should not be in the class this way. I have tried playing Stamina Nightblade once and it is awful to track this buff and reapply when you are in actual raid.
For melee Magicka you can use it as spam skill so no need to track it extensively, but you still need to be in your own Twisting Path or having an external source for Major Expedition. External sources for Major Expedition is pretty rare in random groups unless you have a Nightblade healer which is in decline because of Arcanist healer.
This buff should be tied to Merciless Resolve because both specs of the class are using this skill. It can give this buff when you have five stacks, and after you fire you get five seconds more of this buff so you have time to charge Spectral Arrow again while having the buff.
This guy gets it. I think that would be a perfect rework. Then CW can have a different effect (like applying a new debuff instead of the speed buff) which would be a little more in line with how SA applies a debuff. Maybe minor vulnerability or minor breach.
Minor breach is given by the sundered status effect https://eso-hub.com/en/status-effects/sundered. Minor vuln. would be cool though.110-114k Stage 4 Vamprie Magblade u39
Aldmeri Dominion did nothing wrong in Shadowfen.0 -
Eliran✭✭✭✭✭I think this Concealed Weapon buff should not be in the class this way. I have tried playing Stamina Nightblade once and it is awful to track this buff and reapply when you are in actual raid.
For melee Magicka you can use it as spam skill so no need to track it extensively, but you still need to be in your own Twisting Path or having an external source for Major Expedition. External sources for Major Expedition is pretty rare in random groups unless you have a Nightblade healer which is in decline because of Arcanist healer.
This buff should be tied to Merciless Resolve because both specs of the class are using this skill. It can give this buff when you have five stacks, and after you fire you get five seconds more of this buff so you have time to charge Spectral Arrow again while having the buff.
This guy gets it. I think that would be a perfect rework. Then CW can have a different effect (like applying a new debuff instead of the speed buff) which would be a little more in line with how SA applies a debuff. Maybe minor vulnerability or minor breach.
No, it should give the stack when you use the proc for 12 seconds so you have reason to use it even on execute ..0 -
Sikon✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »This thread sounds like NB mains aren't aware of a skill called "Shade". Making a detect potion for billion meters does not really affect NB in any significant way
NB is still the best PVP class that ever was
Dude this is about pve dps seriously give it a break you sperg
This guy is just a NB Hater. You can see it on his recent posts. He seems to die alot in PvP against NB and Mimimi the Forum for it. Should try NB himself and if he still cannot manage PvP maybe its not the NB fail, because there are alot of better performing classes in PvP atm.
NB is unforgiving, one mistake will kill you instantly. But if played right, its real strong. Most people just dont get it.."Both light and shadow can be deadly, though only one chases the other.""Eyes open and walk with the shadows."1 -
Weckless✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »This thread sounds like NB mains aren't aware of a skill called "Shade". Making a detect potion for billion meters does not really affect NB in any significant way
NB is still the best PVP class that ever was
Dude this is about pve dps seriously give it a break you sperg
This guy is just a NB Hater. You can see it on his recent posts. He seems to die alot in PvP against NB and Mimimi the Forum for it. Should try NB himself and if he still cannot manage PvP maybe its not the NB fail, because there are alot of better performing classes in PvP atm.
NB is unforgiving, one mistake will kill you instantly. But if played right, its real strong. Most people just dont get it..
I know i told him that. He claimed NB has more burst than every other class combined and that you should never die on a nb even outnumbered and never lose a duel or you dont know how to play. I said to post 1 1vX and ill shut up and he made excuses. Dude is the definition of bad faith and is not to be taken seriously1 -
Sikon✭✭✭Yes that's right. But this is Off-Topic anyway, since we are talking about NB (especially Stamblade) in PvE.
So to come back to the Topic, I would suggest following changes for NB (... only if ZOS want to have advice...)
1. Rework the Passives (the all over Tamriels praised "Hybradization" has still not reached the Nightblades)
- e.g. "Magicka Flood" increases max. Magicka for Siphoning Abilities slotted. Where is the Stam Version?
- NB seems to focus alot on Penetration and Ulti Regeneration in the passives. Make it visible in the Gameplay, adjust %
2. The Class Skills overall
- make more versatility in the Morphs itself. NBs forced to play like 80% of the Class Skills on Magicka
- either there are only Magicka versions or the Stam Version of the few Class spells is so underperforming bad, that it makes no sense to use it. Please fix it, give Stamina versions more impact (especially rework Surprise Attack)
- Ultis, so most of you know, there is rather only 1 Ultimate Nightblades can use and which combines good with the Ulti Regen Passives I mentioned above. Its the "Death Stroke" with its morphs. This Ultimate is really Strong and was also buffed for 2 seconds recently but anyway its really sad, that the other Ultimates are really not used in PvE context. Make them matter again AND maybe give NBs also a "Range Ulti Ability"
3. Nightblades overall Class Concept
- ZOS, what is the Nightblade for you? For me it is a sneaky Assassin focusing mainly on critical strikes, executes and burst dmg
- overall it is not a constantly sustaining dmg class (like with Dot classes), the damage gets generated in short periods of time with good placed and focused Bursts (like a Incap Strike Ulti+ Relentless Focus Proc). So based on that focus on this class Design. (Maybe give the cloak a "Crit Dmg" buff, if used against boss encounters, but does not stealth anymore.. something to make the Nightblades class abilities more interesting)
- maybe give the NB focused morphs which increase crit chance/crit damage or increased execute dmg ("Sap Essence" could be a good example to give it an execute dmg morph like on the DW ("Whirlwind")
These are just a few examples and ofc the changes need to be tested alot and calculated with numbers. But like I said, it is just a few of my Ideas, which could make the class interesting again.
Happy to get feedback and discussion
"Both light and shadow can be deadly, though only one chases the other.""Eyes open and walk with the shadows."0 -
Jestir✭✭✭✭The stam version of the class would be in a far better spot if it got the arcanist treatment of key skills using the highest resource
I would be pretty surprised and attacked if changes like that weren't coming in the Q3 "QoL and balance" only update2 -
noblecron✭✭✭✭I'm in the minority because I'm still enjoying my stamblade much more than stamsorc XD. But I also don't do endgame content very often either so probalby don't feel the nerfs?0 -
Eliran✭✭✭✭✭I'm in the minority because I'm still enjoying my stamblade much more than stamsorc XD. But I also don't do endgame content very often either so probalby don't feel the nerfs?
I also enjoy it but its just extremely weak .. literally forcing you to feel like a piggybag on your team
0 -
Faint_One✭✭✭quite like DK’s whip while it be changed to dynamic scale but only cost magicka
we can have a little hope to w8 CW become dynamic cost or SA also got flat buff1
