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You have to do something about PVP Balance ZOS.
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React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Luckylancer wrote: »Stacking same buffs over each other is a problem but removing it is not the fix. Even if you limit it to 2 strongest ones, people will stac other heals. 2 warden artic winds, 2 vigors, 2 regenerations, 2 chakram shields etc. Also ball groups can use different heal sets.
I dont know what is the fix but limiting cross heal at abilitiy level wont have the expected results imo.Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »Cyrodiil is still the best version of this type of game play out there, with GW2 not quite hitting the scratch.
Whilst at the same time you ended up with the weirdly named "ball groups" that role-play running around the top floor of a keep for 30 mins against unorganised pugs is "skilled" or engaging Pvp gameplay.
Ball group name comes from gaming. Example: death ball from starcraft 2, usually protoss
If they're forced to utilize different heals with different application mechanics that require different classes to achieve what they're doing now, then that is totally fine. Nobody is denying that ball groups can and will adapt, and nobody is advocating for the removal of that playstyle.
The problem is now that the perquisite to achieving their current healing is "put echoing vigor on 12 people". You don't need to sacrifice any DPS or support roles to achieve this disgustingly high HPS - you just have everybody slot one single skill, because there is no limit on same morph stacks.
It is a laughably simple balance issue with an extremely straightforward solution. Limit the stacks of same morph hots & ground hots to two at any given moment. If they want to then stack 2 RRs, 2 echoing, 2 springs, 2 Chakrams - so be it. At least then they'll need to expend more mental effort than "all 12 people press echoing once every 10 seconds" to be invincible.@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster9 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TankHealz2015 wrote: »Would you like a new set that attacks/reduces resources instead of health?
When X happens,
You steal or drain magika/stamina from players
The more players affected the bigger the effect
Or
A set that does resource stealing AOE effect
Or
Add new skill line "siege"
Skills to make siege deploy, fire, aim, stow faster
Hand thrown resource drain grenades
Or
Review the defile sets....
Apply minor defile....
If
more than five players affected.. Then adds major defile
Sets being used to solve balance issues is an awful design philosophy and has led to so many more issues than it has solved, historically. They need to tackle these problems head on with meaningful and informed balance adjustments.@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster8 -
DrNukenstein✭✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »I wouldn't exclude PvE from such a change. Excessive baseline sustain is a big part of why sustain races and sets aren't considered competitive in endgame PvE.
Personally I agree, I prefer weaving heavies and mediums in dungeons. But we all remember what happened the last time trial groups lost about 12% of their dps.0 -
JerBearESO✭✭✭✭Luckylancer wrote: »Stacking same buffs over each other is a problem but removing it is not the fix. Even if you limit it to 2 strongest ones, people will stac other heals. 2 warden artic winds, 2 vigors, 2 regenerations, 2 chakram shields etc. Also ball groups can use different heal sets.
I dont know what is the fix but limiting cross heal at abilitiy level wont have the expected results imo.Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »Cyrodiil is still the best version of this type of game play out there, with GW2 not quite hitting the scratch.
Whilst at the same time you ended up with the weirdly named "ball groups" that role-play running around the top floor of a keep for 30 mins against unorganised pugs is "skilled" or engaging Pvp gameplay.
Ball group name comes from gaming. Example: death ball from starcraft 2, usually protoss
If they're forced to utilize different heals with different application mechanics that require different classes to achieve what they're doing now, then that is totally fine. Nobody is denying that ball groups can and will adapt, and nobody is advocating for the removal of that playstyle.
The problem is now that the perquisite to achieving their current healing is "put echoing vigor on 12 people". You don't need to sacrifice any DPS or support roles to achieve this disgustingly high HPS - you just have everybody slot one single skill, because there is no limit on same morph stacks.
It is a laughably simple balance issue with an extremely straightforward solution. Limit the stacks of same morph hots & ground hots to two at any given moment. If they want to then stack 2 RRs, 2 echoing, 2 springs, 2 Chakrams - so be it. At least then they'll need to expend more mental effort than "all 12 people press echoing once every 10 seconds" to be invincible.
Respectfully, I'm not sure about that...first sentence I mean. If say for example ZoS finally listened and targeted this ball group situation, but they only solved echoing vigor and radiating Regen stacking, so that ballgroups changed their abilities but stayed fundamentally the same in play, would the player base be happy? I think everyone would be even more upset to see ZoS address the issues in a way that doesn't actually solve it.
The issue isn't actually heal stacking itself, that is only an element creating the issue. The issue is these ball groups, when successful, are permanently successful until theres a change in players. The only real counterplay is usually to leave. So I personally feel we need a solution that DOES result in even well formed groups being reasonably defeatable.
I don't pretend that would be an easy balance, and I admit I have the viewpoint of a solo player, but I hope you see what I mean.1 -
Weckless✭✭✭JerBearESO wrote: »Luckylancer wrote: »Stacking same buffs over each other is a problem but removing it is not the fix. Even if you limit it to 2 strongest ones, people will stac other heals. 2 warden artic winds, 2 vigors, 2 regenerations, 2 chakram shields etc. Also ball groups can use different heal sets.
I dont know what is the fix but limiting cross heal at abilitiy level wont have the expected results imo.Zavijah_Arventi wrote: »Cyrodiil is still the best version of this type of game play out there, with GW2 not quite hitting the scratch.
Whilst at the same time you ended up with the weirdly named "ball groups" that role-play running around the top floor of a keep for 30 mins against unorganised pugs is "skilled" or engaging Pvp gameplay.
Ball group name comes from gaming. Example: death ball from starcraft 2, usually protoss
If they're forced to utilize different heals with different application mechanics that require different classes to achieve what they're doing now, then that is totally fine. Nobody is denying that ball groups can and will adapt, and nobody is advocating for the removal of that playstyle.
The problem is now that the perquisite to achieving their current healing is "put echoing vigor on 12 people". You don't need to sacrifice any DPS or support roles to achieve this disgustingly high HPS - you just have everybody slot one single skill, because there is no limit on same morph stacks.
It is a laughably simple balance issue with an extremely straightforward solution. Limit the stacks of same morph hots & ground hots to two at any given moment. If they want to then stack 2 RRs, 2 echoing, 2 springs, 2 Chakrams - so be it. At least then they'll need to expend more mental effort than "all 12 people press echoing once every 10 seconds" to be invincible.
Respectfully, I'm not sure about that...first sentence I mean. If say for example ZoS finally listened and targeted this ball group situation, but they only solved echoing vigor and radiating Regen stacking, so that ballgroups changed their abilities but stayed fundamentally the same in play, would the player base be happy? I think everyone would be even more upset to see ZoS address the issues in a way that doesn't actually solve it.
The issue isn't actually heal stacking itself, that is only an element creating the issue. The issue is these ball groups, when successful, are permanently successful until theres a change in players. The only real counterplay is usually to leave. So I personally feel we need a solution that DOES result in even well formed groups being reasonably defeatable.
I don't pretend that would be an easy balance, and I admit I have the viewpoint of a solo player, but I hope you see what I mean.
Well it would still make them weaker. Not every heal effects the entire group. Some heals would have to be cast multiple times to get on everyone0 -
mmtaniac✭✭✭✭✭1 named heal per person 12x ECHOING VIGOR on 1 person NO! 1x Strongest Echoing Vigor per person YES! + off course +others heals over times that have different names its ok. If you put echoing vigor on person old one are removed and new one only stay. This is good thing to improve burst heals or just add them more. all this should work only through battle spirit.1