Why does Crux generation require you to be in combat?
Uberkull
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Example:
1) If you cast Runeblades out of combat, the first hit on an enemy does not generate Crux. All followup casts will start to generate Crux.
2) If i attack with a light attack from my staff, hit the target, that obviously puts me in combat and I can cast Runeblades and generate Crux on the first cast.
Doing a light attack out of combat with a staff, and hitting the target, is no different than cast Runeblades out of combat, and hitting the target, both initiate combat and Runeblades should generate Crux ON HIT, NOT REQUIRE COMBAT.
1) If you cast Runeblades out of combat, the first hit on an enemy does not generate Crux. All followup casts will start to generate Crux.
2) If i attack with a light attack from my staff, hit the target, that obviously puts me in combat and I can cast Runeblades and generate Crux on the first cast.
Doing a light attack out of combat with a staff, and hitting the target, is no different than cast Runeblades out of combat, and hitting the target, both initiate combat and Runeblades should generate Crux ON HIT, NOT REQUIRE COMBAT.
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aaisoaho✭✭✭✭✭This is to prevent players from prebuffing the crux. If there wasn't the restriction, you could cast flail three times before a fight to get to three crux.4 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is to prevent players from prebuffing the crux. If there wasn't the restriction, you could cast flail three times before a fight to get to three crux.
Oh you mean like a dk can pre buff thier dmg and whips??
Or a templar can now pre buff with solar barrage to get 5% on all thier dmg11 -
Uberkull✭✭✭✭✭This is to prevent players from prebuffing the crux. If there wasn't the restriction, you could cast flail three times before a fight to get to three crux.
You can’t cast Runeblades unless you have a enemy targeted. So what you said isn’t possible, unless you plan on going around finding rodents or bugs to try and target.
The fact that you need 4 casts to generate 3 Cruxs is a bad design.▬ஜ Seeds of War, Piles of Skulls ஜ▬
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aaisoaho✭✭✭✭✭This is to prevent players from prebuffing the crux. If there wasn't the restriction, you could cast flail three times before a fight to get to three crux.
Oh you mean like a dk can pre buff thier dmg and whips??
Or a templar can now pre buff with solar barrage to get 5% on all thier dmg
I'm not saying I agree with the mentality, but devs have been rather clear on not liking prebuffing. They have removed a lot of the prebuffs before.This is to prevent players from prebuffing the crux. If there wasn't the restriction, you could cast flail three times before a fight to get to three crux.
You can’t cast Runeblades unless you have a enemy targeted. So what you said isn’t possible, unless you plan on going around finding rodents or bugs to try and target.
The fact that you need 4 casts to generate 3 Cruxs is a bad design.
As I said, if there was no restriction on crux generation requiring you to be in combat, casting flail would enable players to prebuff to 3 crux before each encounter.2 -
BahometZ✭✭✭✭✭
✭I imagine the reason is so people can't gank beam, as pre-buffing crux before pve content would be of such marginal benefit as to be irrelevant.
I for one am not a fan of this. Zos need to stop policing gameplay, and let the players have fun. The game is not successful enough for them to be so militant about it.Pact Magplar - Max CP (NA XB)8 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the devs are so clear on this policy why are there loads of ways classes can pre buff before combat and then develop a class for months with multiple stages of internal and external testing before realising??
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ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Example:
1) If you cast Runeblades out of combat, the first hit on an enemy does not generate Crux. All followup casts will start to generate Crux.
2) If i attack with a light attack from my staff, hit the target, that obviously puts me in combat and I can cast Runeblades and generate Crux on the first cast.
Doing a light attack out of combat with a staff, and hitting the target, is no different than cast Runeblades out of combat, and hitting the target, both initiate combat and Runeblades should generate Crux ON HIT, NOT REQUIRE COMBAT.
But, and I've commented about this several times, if you use FLAIL to initiate combat, you get a crux from the very first hit. So you only need THREE Flail to generate three crux, but you need FOUR Runeblades to generate three crux, which isn't right. There is only a 7m difference in distance in range between Runeblades and Ceph's Flail, so this should be no excuse as to why Flail works differently with crux generation than Runeblades. Besides that, Flail offers so much more in what it does compared to Runeblades. So if they want to play it this route, then they should give Runeblades a HUGE damage buff to compensate because they are basically pushing players into using Flail and not giving any reason to use Runeblades, especially since it's not a 'max range' ability. I could see if it hit from 28m, sure you have the distance to claim for rational, but it's only 22m whereas Flail is 15m. So there's no reason why Runeblades is so awful in comparison. Let alone the fact that Runeblades doesn't always generate crux either. In the above scenario in which you start with a staff light attack, sometimes the first hit of Runeblades doesn't generate crux, especially if you use it too quickly after the light attack. I've had to use Runeblades FIVE times to generate three crux before, which makes it then even more worse than Flail, which I've never had fail to generate crux.CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~2 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is to prevent players from prebuffing the crux. If there wasn't the restriction, you could cast flail three times before a fight to get to three crux.
You can’t cast Runeblades unless you have a enemy targeted. So what you said isn’t possible, unless you plan on going around finding rodents or bugs to try and target.
The fact that you need 4 casts to generate 3 Cruxs is a bad design.
You can generate crux with chakrams so it would be possible to charkram your allies before combat begins to pre-buff as a way to generate crux out of combat; I think this should be allowed. The devs talked up the player's decision making process about gaining and spending crux but the current method has me losing crux between mob pulls in PVE content which is insanity as it removes my decision making process on when to spend them at the right moment.0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is to prevent players from prebuffing the crux. If there wasn't the restriction, you could cast flail three times before a fight to get to three crux.
You can’t cast Runeblades unless you have a enemy targeted. So what you said isn’t possible, unless you plan on going around finding rodents or bugs to try and target.
The fact that you need 4 casts to generate 3 Cruxs is a bad design.
You can cast the self heal to generate Crux. That is if you were in combat.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭It seems to me that you can't use fatecarver as spammable. Just use a weapon skill.0
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haelgaan✭✭✭✭✭if crux expires, then why do sorc or warden pets stay? sorc and warden pets should expire like necro pets do. why does the animation effect on pearlescent or ebon or other such sets stay active? those set bonuses should only trigger in combat.
if they're pressing a new rule that effects like this should expire, then they should apply those rules evenly.5 -
Rageypoo✭✭✭✭✭it had nothing to do with pre-buffing, and everything to do with players complaining about motion sickness and triangles in towns.
It was an incredibly silly thing to kowtow to and instead of offering a visual toggle fix, they just added a combat requirement.11 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭if crux expires, then why do sorc or warden pets stay? sorc and warden pets should expire like necro pets do. why does the animation effect on pearlescent or ebon or other such sets stay active? those set bonuses should only trigger in combat.
if they're pressing a new rule that effects like this should expire, then they should apply those rules evenly.
Sorc pets take up 4 bar slots if you run both of them. That's the cost of having them persist.2 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭it had nothing to do with pre-buffing, and everything to do with players complaining about motion sickness and triangles in towns.
It was an incredibly silly thing to kowtow to and instead of offering a visual toggle fix, they just added a combat requirement.
The visual toggle probably was a lot more complex to code and would have taken a lot longer than 2 weeks to implement.2 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭it had nothing to do with pre-buffing, and everything to do with players complaining about motion sickness and triangles in towns.
It was an incredibly silly thing to kowtow to and instead of offering a visual toggle fix, they just added a combat requirement.
We do not know how the underlying system works. If "put crux on a timer out of combat" was a faster and easier fix than "disconnect the visual and underlying stat aspects of crux", they may have gone with the faster and easier fix. It was making players physically ill. "Some players can't play Arcanist at all because of real world health effects," is going to take higher priority than, "It requires some players a few extra seconds at start of a fight to min/max their Arcanist."3 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dagoth_Rac wrote: »it had nothing to do with pre-buffing, and everything to do with players complaining about motion sickness and triangles in towns.
It was an incredibly silly thing to kowtow to and instead of offering a visual toggle fix, they just added a combat requirement.
We do not know how the underlying system works. If "put crux on a timer out of combat" was a faster and easier fix than "disconnect the visual and underlying stat aspects of crux", they may have gone with the faster and easier fix. It was making players physically ill. "Some players can't play Arcanist at all because of real world health effects," is going to take higher priority than, "It requires some players a few extra seconds at start of a fight to min/max their Arcanist."
So the solution was to only make players "physically ill" for 30 seconds at a time?
If they intended to remove the harmful effects, they would have removed the harmful effects.
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KlauthWarthog✭✭✭✭✭
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So the solution was to only make players "physically ill" for 30 seconds at a time?
If they intended to remove the harmful effects, they would have removed the harmful effects.
Yup. I think the part of the change intended to mitigate the motion sickness was just the slowing down of the crux rotation around the character. The "falls off after 30s" is there because they are targeting pre-buffing with extreme prejudice.0 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭if crux expires, then why do sorc or warden pets stay? sorc and warden pets should expire like necro pets do. why does the animation effect on pearlescent or ebon or other such sets stay active? those set bonuses should only trigger in combat.
if they're pressing a new rule that effects like this should expire, then they should apply those rules evenly.
They could apply them evenly and it still not effect Pearlescent Ward. It is a passive effect from armor. Disabling set bonuses outside of combat would be sketchy thing to do, especially since there are many that have applications outside of combat. In the case of Pearl, it wouldnt matter because outside of combat because the bonus doesnt matter. Its just a visual outside of combat.
Sorc and Warden pets require that the pet be slotted on each weapon bar used. A necro may slot 12 unique abilities on their bar.
Nightblades also lose their stacks for Merciless resolve, and they cannot build them outside of combat. They can refresh the ability when it runs out to retain the stacks though. Perhaps that would be a reasonable compromise, however, it seems more like ZOS was reacting to the complaints about the visuals from the class causing folks physical discomfort rather than an attempt to hold them to some sort of standard regarding prebuffs.0 -
TheValkyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is to prevent players from prebuffing the crux. If there wasn't the restriction, you could cast flail three times before a fight to get to three crux.
You can’t cast Runeblades unless you have a enemy targeted. So what you said isn’t possible, unless you plan on going around finding rodents or bugs to try and target.
The fact that you need 4 casts to generate 3 Cruxs is a bad design.
You don't need 4 casts to generate 3 crux.0 -
This is to prevent players from prebuffing the crux. If there wasn't the restriction, you could cast flail three times before a fight to get to three crux.
You can’t cast Runeblades unless you have a enemy targeted. So what you said isn’t possible, unless you plan on going around finding rodents or bugs to try and target.
The fact that you need 4 casts to generate 3 Cruxs is a bad design.
You don't need 4 casts to generate 3 crux.
You need to take damage or 3 cast, either way you start the fight at a time, resource, and power disadvantage relative to every other class in the game. You still have to pre-buff every fight like every other class, you just start at an even lower power level.
The whole pre-buff argument the devs are using, is misdirection. The Crux change was already decided in PTR, coded before Necrom PC release and sent to certification a minimum of 2-weeks prior for Console release. The way ZoS handled the Crux change was to cover legal liability for changing a core selling point for the Arcanist and Necrom chapter.
This is why the core functionality of the Arcanist no longer works properly. ZoS either risked ADA discrimination claims from those negatively affected by the Crux animation, or they risk liability on false advertisement and bait and switch. Accessibility liability is the number legal concern for the tech industry, because they are very open to legal claims as daily life is integrated with technology more and more everyday. Pick a website at random right now, if it does not show an effort to address accessibility, they are basically open to a number of ADA lawsuits. It is much harder to win a false advertisement / bait and switch case vs an accessibility one.
This is why, ZoS's primary concerns are the Crown Store, their primary source of revenue, and Accessibility, their primary liability.1 -
Agenericname wrote: »if crux expires, then why do sorc or warden pets stay? sorc and warden pets should expire like necro pets do. why does the animation effect on pearlescent or ebon or other such sets stay active? those set bonuses should only trigger in combat.
if they're pressing a new rule that effects like this should expire, then they should apply those rules evenly.
They could apply them evenly and it still not effect Pearlescent Ward. It is a passive effect from armor. Disabling set bonuses outside of combat would be sketchy thing to do, especially since there are many that have applications outside of combat. In the case of Pearl, it wouldnt matter because outside of combat because the bonus doesnt matter. Its just a visual outside of combat.
Sorc and Warden pets require that the pet be slotted on each weapon bar used. A necro may slot 12 unique abilities on their bar.
Nightblades also lose their stacks for Merciless resolve, and they cannot build them outside of combat. They can refresh the ability when it runs out to retain the stacks though. Perhaps that would be a reasonable compromise, however, it seems more like ZOS was reacting to the complaints about the visuals from the class causing folks physical discomfort rather than an attempt to hold them to some sort of standard regarding prebuffs.
So, unlike other class builders like Merciless Resolve or Bound Armaments, Arcanist Crux, require spending resources and GCD's. Meritless and Bound Armaments are both built via light or heavy attacks, neither of which cost resources nor come a GCD. Both of which can be be built and spent later, although do fall off after a certain amount of time post buff failing off. If you have ever played NB in IC, then you know you can pre-build it off npcs, and let the buff run out, and reactivate it as long as you are still in combat and have the Bow Proc up instantly. Once you leave combat, the Bow Proc will drop permanently if the buff is not active. Lucky for NBs the In Combat Bug has never been fixed.
The way Crux change was handled, makes it prone to shenanigans. There are few sets I want to test that may *** with the Crux change and break it. But It requires farming some DLC dungeons im not looking forward to.This is the kind of *** that hasty *fixes* brings.0 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
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Video games typically bypass any ADA legal liability associated with visual queues or scenes with those nice little warnings when you boot up the game. It would have been far easier to address the issue with a warning than muck with an established game system. Publicly traded companies tend to like simple and cheap like that warning. The fact is none of us know what the devs or ZoS' decision making process is except that from the outside it looks like they're shooting from the hip with no coordination or forethought when making these reactionary changes.HidesInPlainSight wrote: »
ZoS either risked ADA discrimination claims from those negatively affected by the Crux animation, or they risk liability on false advertisement and bait and switch. Accessibility liability is the number legal concern for the tech industry, because they are very open to legal claims as daily life is integrated with technology more and more everyday. Pick a website at random right now, if it does not show an effort to address accessibility, they are basically open to a number of ADA lawsuits. It is much harder to win a false advertisement / bait and switch case vs an accessibility one.This is to prevent players from prebuffing the crux. If there wasn't the restriction, you could cast flail three times before a fight to get to three crux.
You can’t cast Runeblades unless you have a enemy targeted. So what you said isn’t possible, unless you plan on going around finding rodents or bugs to try and target.
The fact that you need 4 casts to generate 3 Cruxs is a bad design.
You don't need 4 casts to generate 3 crux.
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BlindingBright✭✭✭So... I checked, and have 260+ hours of playtime on Arcanist since launch. I no-lifed it for a few days, leveled it fully in hours(had golded out gear ready to go, training gear, writs, mythic ambrosia, friend helped with teleports for skyshards).. and I got to enjoy the original crux build, and use it in vet content. First in ESO logs to do vDSR post release as arcanist dps for example, and in all of that have logged over 100ish hours in vet content as a DPS, and a few hours as a healer.
On release, being able to carry crux built in combat through encounters was awesome. It allowed me as a healer to buff up, and opt to not use beam and just use crux as a passive for BIG HEALS... and now, I have to spam a skill that has low value to keep crux up... just for a passive bonus. It sounds stupid, but this also made my sustain worse, as the skills that build crux tend to be expensive, and now require more casting.
As a DPS, I could focus execute using flail as intended, to execute and build crux. This dynamic was SOOOO FUN, it was a unique mechanic and if you were good with managing your crux between pulls could go into pulls ready to go...it was nice, it played well.
Making crux drop off requires extra management, adding tedium, plus there is no real indicator for when they're falling off... so you kinda have to guess/have crux anxiety. Would be nice to least keep it while IN combat, so healers & werewolves are more viable.
There are sooo many pre-buffs in ESO, to change the policy on them feels stuhpid, and as this change shows hasn't raised the floor, but the ceiling- makin it even harder to achieve higher numbers in content... which so far is counter to what I think the spirit of this new pre-buff policy.
Allowing crux build out of combat, while not "fixing" the issue of crux dropping off mid combat(or knowing when crux will drop off) does help alleviate, and in some ways improve the overall feel and behavior of the class. The real question is are the devs also worried about the insane burst damage that can also bring, as while the arcanist is "okay" single target, the burst and AOE is insane...
p.s. There are real issues with break free/barswapping and beam channel causing skill lockups, why is this not talked about more?2 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I‘m fine with Crux running out after 30 seconds, but as some kind of counter there should be a passive that generates Crux once every 10 seconds. This would basically mean out of combat you always have one Crux (10s = 1 Crux, 20s = 2 Crux, 30s = 1 Crux). This passive obviously should apply during combat as well as some kind of passive Crux generation.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0
