? No, I meant, for instance, that with dual wield, the first two abilities, which I've had from early on, are still the most useful, in part because they have leveled up through use. Now that I'm a level 35 character, and I want to open a new line, or you'd say ability, like whirlwind, sparks or conceiled blade, they're far less effective than the first two, which means I cannot really use them in quests of around my level and thus they'll never level up through use.

Aren't the more advanced abilities there to make you stronger though? At least enough to deal with quests of your own level? I mean, the top line ability for hidden blade is "conceiled blade", but it's so much weaker than the (levelled) first two that I'm not even tempted to use it. Problem is the levelling of the first two seems to have slowed down a lot and my performance in quests of my own level and even the ones below has been dropping for some time.

Noth wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

Aren't the more advanced abilities there to make you stronger though? At least enough to deal with quests of your own level? I mean, the top line ability for hidden blade is "conceiled blade", but it's so much weaker than the (levelled) first two that I'm not even tempted to use it. Problem is the levelling of the first two seems to have slowed down a lot and my performance in quests of my own level and even the ones below has been dropping for some time.

new skill and morphs aren't all about more power. They can often simply be for more utility. Some skills will be better for everyday use, other will be better in certain situations. It's not simply about getting directly stronger with skills, but instead more diverse.

This.

Concealed blade lets you attack from range with a dual-wield skill. Whirlwind lets you hit more enemies at once. Sparks doesn't even do damage, but it's extremely useful.

Abilities that you unlock later in the game don't actually do more damage. Stop thinking of this skill system as a linear progression.

I agree to a certain extent that some NB skills are useful pretty much always while some are very situational. It is nice that the generally useful skills are the starting skills. The other skills are still very useful in some situations and one should probably try to get all. I also suggest that you start looking at the guild skill lines since they have some of the coolest skills in the game.

At level 35 though I have a hard time to believe that you have nowhere to put skill points. There are a tons of passives that you should invest into. Do you have your armor passive, weapon passives, class skill passives, fighter guild passives.Do you craft anything?

Leave it off your bar while fighting (or at least, in difficult fights) but put it on your bar when handing in quests.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Melian wrote: »

Leave it off your bar while fighting (or at least, in difficult fights) but put it on your bar when handing in quests.

That's not the OP's issue. His issue is that he thinks damage should be increased for every new ability you get, despite the fact that it runs counter to the basic rules of this skill system.

Actually all I asked was how I can make a newly acquired level 1 ability work, when the level 3 or 4 abilities that I have are only just about enough to get me through quests at the level I'm at.

Muizer wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Melian wrote: »

Leave it off your bar while fighting (or at least, in difficult fights) but put it on your bar when handing in quests.

That's not the OP's issue. His issue is that he thinks damage should be increased for every new ability you get, despite the fact that it runs counter to the basic rules of this skill system.

Actually all I asked was how I can make a newly acquired level 1 ability work, when the level 3 or 4 abilities that I have are only just about enough to get me through quests at the level I'm at.

Again, read the responses you've gotten so far. You are looking at these abilities the wrong way.

You are trying to make each ability substitute for a different one. That's not how it works. The developers designed each tree so that you will still be able to use Twin Blades at VR10, and you'll still be able to use Sparks, because they don't do the same thing. These skills already work; you're just trying to use them for something else.

Would be nice if we could export builds. Anyway this is more or less it:

High Elf Nightblade level 35

Assassination:
Soul Harvest II
[A]Impale III
[A]Ambush I
[A]Mark Target I

Shadow:
[A]Shadowy disguise IV
[A]Surprise attack IV
[P]Replenishing shadows 2
[P]Shadow barrier 2

Siphoning:
Soul Tether II
[A]Funnel health I
[A]Malific Wreath II
[A]Siphonic strikes I
[P]Soul Siphoner 1

Dual Wield:
[A]Blood Craze III
[A]Rapid Strikes III
[A]Whirlwind IV (how did it get that high, I never use it!)
[A]Ember explosion I
[A]Hidden blade I
[P]All passive abilities available for this level

Heavy armor:
[A]Immovable II
[P]Almost all passive abilities

Fighters guild:
[A]Silver bolts
[P]Intimidate

Mages guild
[P]Persuade

The rest have gone into
blacksmithing
enchanting

I've marked abilities that I consider to be a "lost cause" in bold and I may soon have to add the ones in italics, which are, so far, quite unimpressive. So, for whatever reason it seems that for each skill line, the later skills cannot compete with the earlier ones. Most of them are still at a low level. Perhaps they would be competitive if they were at the same level as the early ones, but if they're too weak to be used, will they ever level up? There seems to be some logic to leveling, though how whirlwind, which I hardly ever use, and only once to good effect, somehow went up to level IV.

Muizer wrote: »

There seems to be some logic to leveling, though how whirlwind, which I hardly ever use, and only once to good effect, somehow went up to level IV.

As @nerevarine1138 stated, if it is slotted, even in the 2nd weapon bar, and never used, the skill will level up. Whirlwind is one of my main skills when I'm dual wielding, great for when facing 2 or 3 enemies at once especially in a group. Silver bolts I have slotted in my bow bar and is also one of my main attacks. Against daedra, skeletons, vampires, etc, it is very effective since it also has knockdown. Even when not using it against one of those types of enemies, it still has good damage output plus also can hit more than one enemy at a time.

Muizer wrote: »

Would be nice if we could export builds. Anyway this is more or less it:

High Elf Nightblade level 35

Assassination:
Soul Harvest II
[A]Impale III
[A]Ambush I
[A]Mark Target I

Shadow:
[A]Shadowy disguise IV
[A]Surprise attack IV
[P]Replenishing shadows 2
[P]Shadow barrier 2

Siphoning:
Soul Tether II
[A]Funnel health I
[A]Malific Wreath II
[A]Siphonic strikes I
[P]Soul Siphoner 1

Dual Wield:
[A]Blood Craze III
[A]Rapid Strikes III
[A]Whirlwind IV (how did it get that high, I never use it!)
[A]Ember explosion I
[A]Hidden blade I
[P]All passive abilities available for this level

Heavy armor:
[A]Immovable II
[P]Almost all passive abilities

Fighters guild:
[A]Silver bolts
[P]Intimidate

Mages guild
[P]Persuade

The rest have gone into
blacksmithing
enchanting

I've marked abilities that I consider to be a "lost cause" in bold and I may soon have to add the ones in italics, which are, so far, quite unimpressive. So, for whatever reason it seems that for each skill line, the later skills cannot compete with the earlier ones. Most of them are still at a low level. Perhaps they would be competitive if they were at the same level as the early ones, but if they're too weak to be used, will they ever level up? There seems to be some logic to leveling, though how whirlwind, which I hardly ever use, and only once to good effect, somehow went up to level IV.

Ambush
-mobility while in a group
-increased dps
-some people like it for pvp

Mark target
-it has cool morphs for increased dps,healing, utility in pvp.

Siphoning Strikes Morphs
- Leeching Strikes - Good for tanking and survivability for many builds. My favorite NB skill if they actually fix the bug it would be almost overpowered,
- Siphoning Attacks - Allows a self sustaining destruction staff NB. I played one from 35 to VR2 it worked just because of this skill.

Whirlwind-it does good damage for 1-50 if you would actually build for it to do damage.Since you gone heavy armor you shouldn't expect great damage from DW skills or assassination skills since you rarely crit.I still use it if I need AOE for fighting harvesters/

Ember explosion- never used it but seems more of a PvP utility skill.

Hidden blade- if you really need a ranged dex dump may be usefull

Silver bolts
-Undead and daedra fighting for dolmens and general questing-
-vampire killer in PVP
-if you have some of the extra damage and ultimate generation passives it becomes great.

Most skills are very useful for different situations.
If you really do not need them at all times you can put them in the tab when turning quest in to level them, as Melian suggested.