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Making vampires feel more like vampires, more sidegrade less upgrade.
ArgonianAssassin
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Edited in weaknesses to fighter's guild abilities, alternative suggestions to snare and poison resist, replaced speed buff/debuff with stam/health/magicka regen. In an attempt to add more variation to vampire stages, all stages come with their own unique advantages, rather than all vampires staying in stage 1 or 4, what stage you stay in should be up to you. My suggestion is to add more buffs and debuffs passively to vampire stages based on the time of day and to make vampires feel more like an optional side grade than a straight upgrade.
Stage 1: 15% negative fire resistance during the day, 10% negative fire resist at night, 15% poison resistance during the day(20% at night(A.N.), 15% frost resistance at night(20%during day(D.D.). Health, stamina and magicka regenerate 10% slower during the day and 10% quicker at night. Max health/stamina/magicka reduced by 5% during the day and increased by 5% at night. Vamp ultimate cost 5% less to cast, vampire abilities cost 10% less to cast. 24 hours before next stage.
Stage 2: 30% negative fire resistance during the day and 20% during the night, 30%poison resist during the day(20%A.N.), 30%frost resist at night.(20%D.D.) Health, stamina and magicka regen 35% slower during the day and 30% quicker at night. Max health/stamina/magicka reduced by 10% during the day and increased by 10% at night. Vamp ultimate costs 5% more during the day and 10% less at night, vampire abilities cost 20% less to cast during the night and 5% more during the day. 18 hours till next stage.
(Increased movement speed during stage 2-4. Takes 5% more damage from fighter's guild abilities.)
Stage 3: 40% negative fire resistance during the day and 30% during the night, 40% poison resist during the day(30%A.N.), 40% frost resist at night(30%D.D.) Health, stamina and magicka regen 60% slower during day and 60% quicker at night. Reduced max health by 15% during the day, and increased by 15% at night. Vamp ultimate costs 10% more during the day and and 20% less at night. Vampire abilities cost 25% less to cast during the night and 10% more during the day. 16 hours till next stage. Fighter's guild abilities deal 10% more damage to you. You deal 10% more damage to players with fighter's guild abilities slotted, damage increased by 5% for every fighter's guild ability slotted on the enemies bar, activates during stage 3 & 4)
Stage 4: You are blood starved and desperate, full undead. Vampire abilities deal 10% reduced damage but lasts 1 second longer during the day, during the night vampire abilities deal 5% more damage and lasts 2 seconds longer. 50% negative fire resist during the day, 40% negative fire resist at night, 50% poison resist during the day(40%A.N.), 50% frost resist during the night(40%D.D.) Health, Stamina and Magicka regenerates 75% slower during the day and 60% quicker at night. Reduced max health/stamina/magicka by 15% during the day and increased by 20% during the night. Vamp ultimate costs 15% more during the day and 25% less at night, vampire abilities cost 25% more during the day and 35% less at night. You take fire damage equal to 5% of your max health for every 10 seconds in the sun this affect will never bring you below 75% health, during the night you can smell the blood of non-vampires, revealing their location to you(Detect life) you also regenerate 10% of your max health every 10 seconds at night, persists through combat.
Fighter's guild abilities deal 15% more damage to you and 50% chance to stun for 3 seconds, silver leash will pull you.( Drain Essence and Feed have an increased range, Bat Swarm has a wider radius. Only active during stage 4.)
EDIT: Other changes: You can now feed in combat by activating a self synergy through the use of bat swarm, you can not feed and drain the same enemy, feeding on a target heals you for a small amount and decreases target damage by 10%. (Original idea was to set the target off balance after feeding, but this would be negated by the vampire passive savage feeding, which, through this change, would become a much more valuable passive, as it is now, vampires don't feed and that particular passive is a waste of 2 skill points). My main suggestion in this thread encourages feeding, and nerfs vampires from a required upgrade, to an optional side grade with significant advantages and noticeable disadvantages compared to the vampires current state.
Alternatively, feeding can still knock the target off balance in exchange, savage feeding no longer stuns the target for 2 seconds with 2/2 points in the passive, and instead, after feeding, the target enemy becomes enthralled for 30 seconds with every point put in the new passive for a total 60 seconds of mind control, negating blood ritual change.
Passive Abilities Changes to existing passives. Savage feeding is covered above.
1. Supernatural Recovery, remains as is.
2. Blood Ritual, removed. Replaced with Enthrall, feeding on an enemy has a 50% chance to enthrall an enemy, forcing them to fight by your side for 30 seconds before dying. Up to 2 thralls at a time. You shouldn't be able to profit from your curse.(If Savage Feeding = Enthrall, Blood Ritual = Blood Ritual, abilities no longer cost magicka and instead cost health to cast BUT casting now has a 50% chance to restore 10% max magicka + stamina with the exception of Drain Essence which remains as is, unless Drain Essence = Midnight Drain then cost = Health.)
3. Undead, activated at more health during the night, increase damage mitigation at or below 60% health, damage mitigation can increase up to 50% as health decreases, only active at night, during the day acts as it is right now, only activating below 50% health
4. Unnatural Resistance, changed affect from improving resource recovery through stages 2-4, now instead doubles your resistance to fire damage at night and increases poison(or frost/disease) resistance during the day.
5. Dark Stalker, remains as is.
Ability Changes
Drain Essence, Midnight Drain morph is now built into the ability, instead you may morph the skill to return magicka at the cost of restoring health. Ability can now be used on enemies immune to stuns, the enemy will still be immune to stuns but the drain effect will still apply. Healing increased when below 50% health.
Edited by ArgonianAssassin on May 6, 2014 3:10AM Stage 1: 15% negative fire resistance during the day, 10% negative fire resist at night, 15% poison resistance during the day(20% at night(A.N.), 15% frost resistance at night(20%during day(D.D.). Health, stamina and magicka regenerate 10% slower during the day and 10% quicker at night. Max health/stamina/magicka reduced by 5% during the day and increased by 5% at night. Vamp ultimate cost 5% less to cast, vampire abilities cost 10% less to cast. 24 hours before next stage.
Stage 2: 30% negative fire resistance during the day and 20% during the night, 30%poison resist during the day(20%A.N.), 30%frost resist at night.(20%D.D.) Health, stamina and magicka regen 35% slower during the day and 30% quicker at night. Max health/stamina/magicka reduced by 10% during the day and increased by 10% at night. Vamp ultimate costs 5% more during the day and 10% less at night, vampire abilities cost 20% less to cast during the night and 5% more during the day. 18 hours till next stage.
(Increased movement speed during stage 2-4. Takes 5% more damage from fighter's guild abilities.)
Stage 3: 40% negative fire resistance during the day and 30% during the night, 40% poison resist during the day(30%A.N.), 40% frost resist at night(30%D.D.) Health, stamina and magicka regen 60% slower during day and 60% quicker at night. Reduced max health by 15% during the day, and increased by 15% at night. Vamp ultimate costs 10% more during the day and and 20% less at night. Vampire abilities cost 25% less to cast during the night and 10% more during the day. 16 hours till next stage. Fighter's guild abilities deal 10% more damage to you. You deal 10% more damage to players with fighter's guild abilities slotted, damage increased by 5% for every fighter's guild ability slotted on the enemies bar, activates during stage 3 & 4)
Stage 4: You are blood starved and desperate, full undead. Vampire abilities deal 10% reduced damage but lasts 1 second longer during the day, during the night vampire abilities deal 5% more damage and lasts 2 seconds longer. 50% negative fire resist during the day, 40% negative fire resist at night, 50% poison resist during the day(40%A.N.), 50% frost resist during the night(40%D.D.) Health, Stamina and Magicka regenerates 75% slower during the day and 60% quicker at night. Reduced max health/stamina/magicka by 15% during the day and increased by 20% during the night. Vamp ultimate costs 15% more during the day and 25% less at night, vampire abilities cost 25% more during the day and 35% less at night. You take fire damage equal to 5% of your max health for every 10 seconds in the sun this affect will never bring you below 75% health, during the night you can smell the blood of non-vampires, revealing their location to you(Detect life) you also regenerate 10% of your max health every 10 seconds at night, persists through combat.
Fighter's guild abilities deal 15% more damage to you and 50% chance to stun for 3 seconds, silver leash will pull you.( Drain Essence and Feed have an increased range, Bat Swarm has a wider radius. Only active during stage 4.)
EDIT: Other changes: You can now feed in combat by activating a self synergy through the use of bat swarm, you can not feed and drain the same enemy, feeding on a target heals you for a small amount and decreases target damage by 10%. (Original idea was to set the target off balance after feeding, but this would be negated by the vampire passive savage feeding, which, through this change, would become a much more valuable passive, as it is now, vampires don't feed and that particular passive is a waste of 2 skill points). My main suggestion in this thread encourages feeding, and nerfs vampires from a required upgrade, to an optional side grade with significant advantages and noticeable disadvantages compared to the vampires current state.
Alternatively, feeding can still knock the target off balance in exchange, savage feeding no longer stuns the target for 2 seconds with 2/2 points in the passive, and instead, after feeding, the target enemy becomes enthralled for 30 seconds with every point put in the new passive for a total 60 seconds of mind control, negating blood ritual change.
Passive Abilities Changes to existing passives. Savage feeding is covered above.
1. Supernatural Recovery, remains as is.
2. Blood Ritual, removed. Replaced with Enthrall, feeding on an enemy has a 50% chance to enthrall an enemy, forcing them to fight by your side for 30 seconds before dying. Up to 2 thralls at a time. You shouldn't be able to profit from your curse.(If Savage Feeding = Enthrall, Blood Ritual = Blood Ritual, abilities no longer cost magicka and instead cost health to cast BUT casting now has a 50% chance to restore 10% max magicka + stamina with the exception of Drain Essence which remains as is, unless Drain Essence = Midnight Drain then cost = Health.)
3. Undead, activated at more health during the night, increase damage mitigation at or below 60% health, damage mitigation can increase up to 50% as health decreases, only active at night, during the day acts as it is right now, only activating below 50% health
4. Unnatural Resistance, changed affect from improving resource recovery through stages 2-4, now instead doubles your resistance to fire damage at night and increases poison(or frost/disease) resistance during the day.
5. Dark Stalker, remains as is.
Ability Changes
Drain Essence, Midnight Drain morph is now built into the ability, instead you may morph the skill to return magicka at the cost of restoring health. Ability can now be used on enemies immune to stuns, the enemy will still be immune to stuns but the drain effect will still apply. Healing increased when below 50% health.
"It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey
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The_Sadist✭✭✭✭✭My only real issue with this is people who are vampires that have a limited amount of game time and are unfortunately on for a majority of said time during the in game day time wouldn't be able to enjoy themselves if they were a vampire as they would be constantly gimping their character.
However that aside I wouldn't mind a system like this if there was a significant time between feedings or you had the ability to gorge yourself and not worry about feeding for literal days or something.
Furthermore I think the run speed debuff / buff is a bit.. iffy given mist form and mounts, but that's just me.
It would add an interesting dynamic to the game, but I'm on the boat."Each event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the hero, there is no Event." ― Zurin Arctus, the Underking.Tragrim - How do I work this thing?
Casually stalking the forums1 -
ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭
I edited the OP to address the run speed issue, it could be swapped out to be something more in line with the lore and not as Inconvenient. For players who can only play during the day, that's what vampirism stage 1 is for, it's all buffs and no debuffs, sure you're not as strong as a vampire who plays at night, but you don't have to put up with all those debuffs either. I also addressed the feed time issue, it now takes nearly a full day to transition from 1 stage to another. My thought process behind this idea was this, I've seen a lot of people complaining about vampires being to strong this suggestion keeps vampires strong, not as strong as they are now, but still significantly strong but only during the night and during the day vampires are significantly weaker, as they should be, but not too weak as to be unplayable a little cost increase here a little increased damage there, during the night you should be terrified to come across a vampire in Cyrodil, and during the day, the reverse should be true, I believe this also encourages more build swapping and gear changing. The sun is coming up? Uh oh, better swap some vampire abilities because they're about to get more expensive(If you don't think they're worth using with a 5-10% cost increase) and I better swap on some fire resist gear, but when the sun goes down, the monsters come out and *** gets real.The_Sadist wrote: »My only real issue with this is people who are vampires that have a limited amount of game time and are unfortunately on for a majority of said time during the in game day time wouldn't be able to enjoy themselves if they were a vampire as they would be constantly gimping their character.
However that aside I wouldn't mind a system like this if there was a significant time between feedings or you had the ability to gorge yourself and not worry about feeding for literal days or something.
Furthermore I think the run speed debuff / buff is a bit.. iffy given mist form and mounts, but that's just me.
It would add an interesting dynamic to the game, but I'm on the boat.
Edited by ArgonianAssassin on May 5, 2014 12:15PM"It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey0 -
I agree with the idea of introducing more negatives to being a vamp. As it is, you can't run 10 yards without spotting a player with vampirism in-game, and it seems totally unrealistic in terms of the ES lore.
Vampirism is a "curse", is it not? As it stands, it looks almost like a mandatory positive skill line for the Nightblade class especially, which is based largely around stealth. Not having that vamp movement passive is flat-out brutal for NBs.
Too many positive abilities... best travel power in-game (mist form), best ultimate (high dmg + great healing), best stealth movement, excellent fight-starter/stun (feed), mid-combat pause/heal button (drain).
The debuffs are weak as hell for all that you gain... I'd crank them up so much more that you'd actually LOSE 1hp every 10 secs or so, varying in extremes depending on day/night cycle. Fire dmg/Silver Bolts should be nearly instakill as well, because clearly its current state is not deterring enough players from taking this line.Edited by aquaorange11 on May 5, 2014 12:41PM0 -
ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭
That's well and good and all but I'd like to know your thoughts on my particular suggestion, please and thanks.aquaorange11 wrote: »I agree with the idea of more introducing more negatives to being a vamp. As it is, you can't run 10 yards without spotting a player with vampirism in-game, and it seems totally unrealistic in terms of the ES lore.
Vampirism is a "curse", is it not? As it stands, it looks almost like a mandatory positive skill line for the Nightblade class especially, which is based largely around stealth. Not having that vamp movement passive is flat-out brutal for NBs.
Too many positive abilities... best travel power in-game (mist form), best ultimate (high dmg + great healing), best stealth movement, excellent fight-starter/stun (feed), mid-combat pause/heal button (drain).
The debuffs are weak as hell for all that you gain... I'd crank them up so much more that you'd actually LOSE 1hp every 10 secs or so, varying in extremes depending on day/night cycle. Fire dmg/Silver Bolts should be nearly instakill as well, because clearly its current state is not deterring enough players from taking this line.
And also mist form is arguably the best mobility skill in the game when compared to bolt of lighting from sorcerers which can be used far more often and travels much farther, if you're using drain as a fight opener you're doing it wrong, drain is there as an oh *** button, you're low on stam and health in the middle of a fight? Boom, over the course of 3 seconds you'll get it restored by 150% of the damage done(And at veteran levels the damage can be quite shite.) Fire damage is an instant kill for vampires go get infected and try to ruin The Blessed Crucible. I dare you. Silver bolts should most certainly NOT be an instant kill because then you're trading one required skill line for another, the stun already affects vampires and does increased damage to us, silver bolts is fine.
Edited by ArgonianAssassin on May 5, 2014 12:37PM"It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey0 -
The_Sadist✭✭✭✭✭ArgonianAssassin wrote: »
I edited the OP to address the run speed issue, it could be swapped out to be something more in line with the lore and not as Inconvenient. For players who can only play during the day, that's what vampirism stage 1 is for, it's all buffs and no debuffs, sure you're not as strong as a vampire who plays at night, but you don't have to put up with all those debuffs either. I also addressed the feed time issue, it now takes nearly a full day to transition from 1 stage to another. My thought process behind this idea was this, I've seen a lot of people complaining about vampires being to strong this suggestion keeps vampires strong, not as strong as they are now, but still significantly strong but only during the night and during the day vampires are significantly weaker, as they should be, but not too weak as to be unplayable a little cost increase here a little increased damage there, during the night you should be terrified to come across a vampire in Cyrodil, and during the day, the reverse should be true, I believe this also encourages more build swapping and gear changing. The sun is coming up? Uh oh, better swap some vampire abilities because they're about to get more expensive(If you don't think they're worth using with a 5-10% cost increase) and I better swap on some fire resist gear, but when the sun goes down, the monsters come out and *** gets real.The_Sadist wrote: »My only real issue with this is people who are vampires that have a limited amount of game time and are unfortunately on for a majority of said time during the in game day time wouldn't be able to enjoy themselves if they were a vampire as they would be constantly gimping their character.
However that aside I wouldn't mind a system like this if there was a significant time between feedings or you had the ability to gorge yourself and not worry about feeding for literal days or something.
Furthermore I think the run speed debuff / buff is a bit.. iffy given mist form and mounts, but that's just me.
It would add an interesting dynamic to the game, but I'm on the boat.
Ah, I dislike the idea of sun damage, more so on stage 1 where in later Elder Scrolls games they don't take said damage. I don't know, I get the idea behind sun damage come later stages but still, I really don't like the idea of it personally :P.
That aside I like the idea of a full day transition, it would be both good and bad. It would mean feeding might actually mean something and if you decide to feed or not.
The issue is I can see people rolling their vamps during the night and logging on their non-vampire characters during the day, a sort of obvious workaround.
Like I said an interesting vampire dynamic, but I don't see it being implemented any time soon given the list of things needing to be fixed. We'll see how the ultimate nerf works and go from there!"Each event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the hero, there is no Event." ― Zurin Arctus, the Underking.Tragrim - How do I work this thing?
Casually stalking the forums0 -
ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »
I edited the OP to address the run speed issue, it could be swapped out to be something more in line with the lore and not as Inconvenient. For players who can only play during the day, that's what vampirism stage 1 is for, it's all buffs and no debuffs, sure you're not as strong as a vampire who plays at night, but you don't have to put up with all those debuffs either. I also addressed the feed time issue, it now takes nearly a full day to transition from 1 stage to another. My thought process behind this idea was this, I've seen a lot of people complaining about vampires being to strong this suggestion keeps vampires strong, not as strong as they are now, but still significantly strong but only during the night and during the day vampires are significantly weaker, as they should be, but not too weak as to be unplayable a little cost increase here a little increased damage there, during the night you should be terrified to come across a vampire in Cyrodil, and during the day, the reverse should be true, I believe this also encourages more build swapping and gear changing. The sun is coming up? Uh oh, better swap some vampire abilities because they're about to get more expensive(If you don't think they're worth using with a 5-10% cost increase) and I better swap on some fire resist gear, but when the sun goes down, the monsters come out and *** gets real.The_Sadist wrote: »My only real issue with this is people who are vampires that have a limited amount of game time and are unfortunately on for a majority of said time during the in game day time wouldn't be able to enjoy themselves if they were a vampire as they would be constantly gimping their character.
However that aside I wouldn't mind a system like this if there was a significant time between feedings or you had the ability to gorge yourself and not worry about feeding for literal days or something.
Furthermore I think the run speed debuff / buff is a bit.. iffy given mist form and mounts, but that's just me.
It would add an interesting dynamic to the game, but I'm on the boat.
Ah, I dislike the idea of sun damage, more so on stage 1 where in later Elder Scrolls games they don't take said damage. I don't know, I get the idea behind sun damage come later stages but still, I really don't like the idea of it personally :P.
That aside I like the idea of a full day transition, it would be both good and bad. It would mean feeding might actually mean something and if you decide to feed or not.
The issue is I can see people rolling their vamps during the night and logging on their non-vampire characters during the day, a sort of obvious workaround.
Like I said an interesting vampire dynamic, but I don't see it being implemented any time soon given the list of things needing to be fixed. We'll see how the ultimate nerf works and go from there!
I'm glad you like the idea overall, thanks for your input. (: I also don't see this being implemented any time soon, but maybe ZoS will give it a look over and consider making day/night more significant to a vampire. What is it you personally find appealing about taking small amount of fire damage? Do you find the snare/sprint more preferable, if not what do you suggest? And yeah, the idea behind this was to make feeding or not more meaningful. As to the ultimate nerf I hope you remember it's not just a nerf to ultimates it's a nerf to the whole skill tree.Edited by ArgonianAssassin on May 5, 2014 12:54PM"It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey0 -
Phoenix99✭✭✭Some interesting ideas, but I would need to take some time on thinking about their synergies.
I like the general approach.0 -
ArgonianAssassin wrote: »That's well and good and all but I'd like to know your thoughts on my particular suggestion, please and thanks.
if you're using drain as a fight opener you're doing it wrong, drain is there as an oh *** button
Firstly, I don't owe you any sort of in-depth commentary on your OP; the relevance of my reply was my agreement that vampires indeed need to feel more like a sidestep than an obvious upgrade (which they currently are, across the board). But, since you pressed me for a response, sure, your ideas would be a start, but in my opinion, not nearly enough to lower vamp player numbers.
To your second point, I said "feed", which is not the drain ability (former is used OOC, latter is used during, though you can pop a mid-combat feed as a NB with cloak if you get behind the target).
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ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭
I didn't press you, just wanted to stay on topic. I apologize I didn't see you had feed in the middle there I read it as you implying drain was a fight starter/stun and a mid combat pause/heal, the point of this is to not discourage people from becoming vampires, merely to tune it down from a pure upgrade as it is now, to a sidegrade more tuned for RP. There are 0 advantages to being a vampire during daylight hours, in fact, it's gimping yourself to run around during the day with this suggestion, but during the night you're significantly stronger, and that's the point. The make day/night cycles more meaningful for the 'class' it should matter most to. I saw your suggestion, if we had it your way, vampires would be completely and utterly useless. I thank you for your feedback.aquaorange11 wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »That's well and good and all but I'd like to know your thoughts on my particular suggestion, please and thanks.
if you're using drain as a fight opener you're doing it wrong, drain is there as an oh *** button
Firstly, I don't owe you any sort of in-depth commentary on your OP; the relevance of my reply was my agreement that vampires indeed need to feel more like a sidestep than an obvious upgrade (which they currently are, across the board). But, since you pressed me for a response, sure, your ideas would be a start, but in my opinion, not nearly enough to lower vamp player numbers.
To your second point, I said "feed", which is not the drain ability (former is used OOC, latter is used during, though you can pop a mid-combat feed as a NB with cloak if you get behind the target).
Edited by ArgonianAssassin on May 5, 2014 1:18PM"It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey0 -
I'm not aiming for utter uselessness, simply a tradeoff, a legitimate risk. My instakill suggestions may be extreme, I'll admit that. The point being the current drawbacks aren't enough to keep what I'm guessing to be ~45% of the entire population of Tamriel from becoming a vampire (I reckon it's closer to 75% if you count only high levels/vet ranks).
I like your emphasis on day/night cycles, I do agree with basing many things around that concept. In short, I'm after anything based in realism (as it pertains to the ES universe), and this many players running around as vamps is anything but realistic.0 -
The_Sadist✭✭✭✭✭ArgonianAssassin wrote: »The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »
I edited the OP to address the run speed issue, it could be swapped out to be something more in line with the lore and not as Inconvenient. For players who can only play during the day, that's what vampirism stage 1 is for, it's all buffs and no debuffs, sure you're not as strong as a vampire who plays at night, but you don't have to put up with all those debuffs either. I also addressed the feed time issue, it now takes nearly a full day to transition from 1 stage to another. My thought process behind this idea was this, I've seen a lot of people complaining about vampires being to strong this suggestion keeps vampires strong, not as strong as they are now, but still significantly strong but only during the night and during the day vampires are significantly weaker, as they should be, but not too weak as to be unplayable a little cost increase here a little increased damage there, during the night you should be terrified to come across a vampire in Cyrodil, and during the day, the reverse should be true, I believe this also encourages more build swapping and gear changing. The sun is coming up? Uh oh, better swap some vampire abilities because they're about to get more expensive(If you don't think they're worth using with a 5-10% cost increase) and I better swap on some fire resist gear, but when the sun goes down, the monsters come out and *** gets real.The_Sadist wrote: »My only real issue with this is people who are vampires that have a limited amount of game time and are unfortunately on for a majority of said time during the in game day time wouldn't be able to enjoy themselves if they were a vampire as they would be constantly gimping their character.
However that aside I wouldn't mind a system like this if there was a significant time between feedings or you had the ability to gorge yourself and not worry about feeding for literal days or something.
Furthermore I think the run speed debuff / buff is a bit.. iffy given mist form and mounts, but that's just me.
It would add an interesting dynamic to the game, but I'm on the boat.
Ah, I dislike the idea of sun damage, more so on stage 1 where in later Elder Scrolls games they don't take said damage. I don't know, I get the idea behind sun damage come later stages but still, I really don't like the idea of it personally :P.
That aside I like the idea of a full day transition, it would be both good and bad. It would mean feeding might actually mean something and if you decide to feed or not.
The issue is I can see people rolling their vamps during the night and logging on their non-vampire characters during the day, a sort of obvious workaround.
Like I said an interesting vampire dynamic, but I don't see it being implemented any time soon given the list of things needing to be fixed. We'll see how the ultimate nerf works and go from there!
I'm glad you like the idea overall, thanks for your input. (: I also don't see this being implemented any time soon, but maybe ZoS will give it a look over and consider making day/night more significant to a vampire. What is it you personally find appealing about taking small amount of fire damage? Do you find the snare/sprint more preferable, if not what do you suggest? And yeah, the idea behind this was to make feeding or not more meaningful. As to the ultimate nerf I hope you remember it's not just a nerf to ultimates it's a nerf to the whole skill tree.
Sun damage come stage 4 might be acceptable but constant sun damage during earlier stages when lore indicates ESO vampires are sun tolerant seems a bit misguided. Furthermore, a few % run speed wouldn't really change a thing. I can't think of an alternative currently but something like increased magicka / stamina by a few % per stage (with stage 4 being something like during day -5% magicka / stamina and +10% during night, no idea, the whole drained vitality). The nerf might be overkill (21% v 60% at stage 4) but we will see.. Mist form won't be chained anymore.. but still it seems pretty intense. I'm pure PvE currently so most of the changes are due to PvP so I can only sigh and move on.
I am still very against the idea of having vampires be weaker during the day but your suggestion was thought out and reasonable unlike the mindless "kik out of fightr guild plox heuheu" nonsense going on."Each event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the hero, there is no Event." ― Zurin Arctus, the Underking.Tragrim - How do I work this thing?
Casually stalking the forums0 -
ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭
In an attempt to add more risks as a vampire, stages 2-4 take increased damage from fighter's guild abilities scaling with stage, also added stage specific bonuses to add more variation among vampires.aquaorange11 wrote: »I'm not aiming for utter uselessness, simply a tradeoff, a legitimate risk. My instakill suggestions may be extreme, I'll admit that. The point being the current drawbacks aren't enough to keep what I'm guessing to be ~45% of the entire population of Tamriel from becoming a vampire (I reckon it's closer to 75% if you count only high levels/vet ranks).
I like your emphasis on day/night cycles, I do agree with basing many things around that concept. In short, I'm after anything based in realism (as it pertains to the ES universe), and this many players running around as vamps is anything but realistic.
"It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey0 -
ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »
I edited the OP to address the run speed issue, it could be swapped out to be something more in line with the lore and not as Inconvenient. For players who can only play during the day, that's what vampirism stage 1 is for, it's all buffs and no debuffs, sure you're not as strong as a vampire who plays at night, but you don't have to put up with all those debuffs either. I also addressed the feed time issue, it now takes nearly a full day to transition from 1 stage to another. My thought process behind this idea was this, I've seen a lot of people complaining about vampires being to strong this suggestion keeps vampires strong, not as strong as they are now, but still significantly strong but only during the night and during the day vampires are significantly weaker, as they should be, but not too weak as to be unplayable a little cost increase here a little increased damage there, during the night you should be terrified to come across a vampire in Cyrodil, and during the day, the reverse should be true, I believe this also encourages more build swapping and gear changing. The sun is coming up? Uh oh, better swap some vampire abilities because they're about to get more expensive(If you don't think they're worth using with a 5-10% cost increase) and I better swap on some fire resist gear, but when the sun goes down, the monsters come out and *** gets real.The_Sadist wrote: »My only real issue with this is people who are vampires that have a limited amount of game time and are unfortunately on for a majority of said time during the in game day time wouldn't be able to enjoy themselves if they were a vampire as they would be constantly gimping their character.
However that aside I wouldn't mind a system like this if there was a significant time between feedings or you had the ability to gorge yourself and not worry about feeding for literal days or something.
Furthermore I think the run speed debuff / buff is a bit.. iffy given mist form and mounts, but that's just me.
It would add an interesting dynamic to the game, but I'm on the boat.
Ah, I dislike the idea of sun damage, more so on stage 1 where in later Elder Scrolls games they don't take said damage. I don't know, I get the idea behind sun damage come later stages but still, I really don't like the idea of it personally :P.
That aside I like the idea of a full day transition, it would be both good and bad. It would mean feeding might actually mean something and if you decide to feed or not.
The issue is I can see people rolling their vamps during the night and logging on their non-vampire characters during the day, a sort of obvious workaround.
Like I said an interesting vampire dynamic, but I don't see it being implemented any time soon given the list of things needing to be fixed. We'll see how the ultimate nerf works and go from there!
I'm glad you like the idea overall, thanks for your input. (: I also don't see this being implemented any time soon, but maybe ZoS will give it a look over and consider making day/night more significant to a vampire. What is it you personally find appealing about taking small amount of fire damage? Do you find the snare/sprint more preferable, if not what do you suggest? And yeah, the idea behind this was to make feeding or not more meaningful. As to the ultimate nerf I hope you remember it's not just a nerf to ultimates it's a nerf to the whole skill tree.
Sun damage come stage 4 might be acceptable but constant sun damage during earlier stages when lore indicates ESO vampires are sun tolerant seems a bit misguided. Furthermore, a few % run speed wouldn't really change a thing. I can't think of an alternative currently but something like increased magicka / stamina by a few % per stage (with stage 4 being something like during day -5% magicka / stamina and +10% during night, no idea, the whole drained vitality). The nerf might be overkill (21% v 60% at stage 4) but we will see.. Mist form won't be chained anymore.. but still it seems pretty intense. I'm pure PvE currently so most of the changes are due to PvP so I can only sigh and move on.
I am still very against the idea of having vampires be weaker during the day but your suggestion was thought out and reasonable unlike the mindless "kik out of fightr guild plox heuheu" nonsense going on.
The only thing I want to cover is 1, I like your idea of having your stam/magicka/health reduced during the day and increase at night, like say -50 stam/magicka/health during the day and +50 during the night, and also it's not so much you're weaker during the day(except at stage 4 where you deal 10% less damage, but that is made up by the ability lasting longer) abilities just cost more to cast during the day."It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey0 -
The_Sadist✭✭✭✭✭ArgonianAssassin wrote: »The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »
I edited the OP to address the run speed issue, it could be swapped out to be something more in line with the lore and not as Inconvenient. For players who can only play during the day, that's what vampirism stage 1 is for, it's all buffs and no debuffs, sure you're not as strong as a vampire who plays at night, but you don't have to put up with all those debuffs either. I also addressed the feed time issue, it now takes nearly a full day to transition from 1 stage to another. My thought process behind this idea was this, I've seen a lot of people complaining about vampires being to strong this suggestion keeps vampires strong, not as strong as they are now, but still significantly strong but only during the night and during the day vampires are significantly weaker, as they should be, but not too weak as to be unplayable a little cost increase here a little increased damage there, during the night you should be terrified to come across a vampire in Cyrodil, and during the day, the reverse should be true, I believe this also encourages more build swapping and gear changing. The sun is coming up? Uh oh, better swap some vampire abilities because they're about to get more expensive(If you don't think they're worth using with a 5-10% cost increase) and I better swap on some fire resist gear, but when the sun goes down, the monsters come out and *** gets real.The_Sadist wrote: »My only real issue with this is people who are vampires that have a limited amount of game time and are unfortunately on for a majority of said time during the in game day time wouldn't be able to enjoy themselves if they were a vampire as they would be constantly gimping their character.
However that aside I wouldn't mind a system like this if there was a significant time between feedings or you had the ability to gorge yourself and not worry about feeding for literal days or something.
Furthermore I think the run speed debuff / buff is a bit.. iffy given mist form and mounts, but that's just me.
It would add an interesting dynamic to the game, but I'm on the boat.
Ah, I dislike the idea of sun damage, more so on stage 1 where in later Elder Scrolls games they don't take said damage. I don't know, I get the idea behind sun damage come later stages but still, I really don't like the idea of it personally :P.
That aside I like the idea of a full day transition, it would be both good and bad. It would mean feeding might actually mean something and if you decide to feed or not.
The issue is I can see people rolling their vamps during the night and logging on their non-vampire characters during the day, a sort of obvious workaround.
Like I said an interesting vampire dynamic, but I don't see it being implemented any time soon given the list of things needing to be fixed. We'll see how the ultimate nerf works and go from there!
I'm glad you like the idea overall, thanks for your input. (: I also don't see this being implemented any time soon, but maybe ZoS will give it a look over and consider making day/night more significant to a vampire. What is it you personally find appealing about taking small amount of fire damage? Do you find the snare/sprint more preferable, if not what do you suggest? And yeah, the idea behind this was to make feeding or not more meaningful. As to the ultimate nerf I hope you remember it's not just a nerf to ultimates it's a nerf to the whole skill tree.
Sun damage come stage 4 might be acceptable but constant sun damage during earlier stages when lore indicates ESO vampires are sun tolerant seems a bit misguided. Furthermore, a few % run speed wouldn't really change a thing. I can't think of an alternative currently but something like increased magicka / stamina by a few % per stage (with stage 4 being something like during day -5% magicka / stamina and +10% during night, no idea, the whole drained vitality). The nerf might be overkill (21% v 60% at stage 4) but we will see.. Mist form won't be chained anymore.. but still it seems pretty intense. I'm pure PvE currently so most of the changes are due to PvP so I can only sigh and move on.
I am still very against the idea of having vampires be weaker during the day but your suggestion was thought out and reasonable unlike the mindless "kik out of fightr guild plox heuheu" nonsense going on.
The only thing I want to cover is 1, I like your idea of having your stam/magicka/health reduced during the day and increase at night, like say -50 stam/magicka/health during the day and +50 during the night, and also it's not so much you're weaker during the day(except at stage 4 where you deal 10% less damage, but that is made up by the ability lasting longer) abilities just cost more to cast during the day.
I don't know how I feel about static v percent, come endgame static might be minute and irrelevant due to how insignificant the reduction is. Furthermore lower level vampires who are at stage 4 and have some crazy high static reduction to compensate mightn't be able to play. I think percentages might be a bit better as it has an impact on all vampire players regardless of their level / veteran rank.
Basically I'm liking the concept of increased negative fire resistance as stages go up, increased poison (or disease / frost) resistance as stages go up, reduction / increase in magicka / stamina / health depending on stage / time of day, increased / decreased spell costs depending on stage / time of day AND potentially passive changes / spell changes etc etc.
How about sun damage come stage 4 with some massive trade off come night time? Food for thought."Each event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the hero, there is no Event." ― Zurin Arctus, the Underking.Tragrim - How do I work this thing?
Casually stalking the forums0 -
ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭
How's it look now?The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »
I edited the OP to address the run speed issue, it could be swapped out to be something more in line with the lore and not as Inconvenient. For players who can only play during the day, that's what vampirism stage 1 is for, it's all buffs and no debuffs, sure you're not as strong as a vampire who plays at night, but you don't have to put up with all those debuffs either. I also addressed the feed time issue, it now takes nearly a full day to transition from 1 stage to another. My thought process behind this idea was this, I've seen a lot of people complaining about vampires being to strong this suggestion keeps vampires strong, not as strong as they are now, but still significantly strong but only during the night and during the day vampires are significantly weaker, as they should be, but not too weak as to be unplayable a little cost increase here a little increased damage there, during the night you should be terrified to come across a vampire in Cyrodil, and during the day, the reverse should be true, I believe this also encourages more build swapping and gear changing. The sun is coming up? Uh oh, better swap some vampire abilities because they're about to get more expensive(If you don't think they're worth using with a 5-10% cost increase) and I better swap on some fire resist gear, but when the sun goes down, the monsters come out and *** gets real.The_Sadist wrote: »My only real issue with this is people who are vampires that have a limited amount of game time and are unfortunately on for a majority of said time during the in game day time wouldn't be able to enjoy themselves if they were a vampire as they would be constantly gimping their character.
However that aside I wouldn't mind a system like this if there was a significant time between feedings or you had the ability to gorge yourself and not worry about feeding for literal days or something.
Furthermore I think the run speed debuff / buff is a bit.. iffy given mist form and mounts, but that's just me.
It would add an interesting dynamic to the game, but I'm on the boat.
Ah, I dislike the idea of sun damage, more so on stage 1 where in later Elder Scrolls games they don't take said damage. I don't know, I get the idea behind sun damage come later stages but still, I really don't like the idea of it personally :P.
That aside I like the idea of a full day transition, it would be both good and bad. It would mean feeding might actually mean something and if you decide to feed or not.
The issue is I can see people rolling their vamps during the night and logging on their non-vampire characters during the day, a sort of obvious workaround.
Like I said an interesting vampire dynamic, but I don't see it being implemented any time soon given the list of things needing to be fixed. We'll see how the ultimate nerf works and go from there!
I'm glad you like the idea overall, thanks for your input. (: I also don't see this being implemented any time soon, but maybe ZoS will give it a look over and consider making day/night more significant to a vampire. What is it you personally find appealing about taking small amount of fire damage? Do you find the snare/sprint more preferable, if not what do you suggest? And yeah, the idea behind this was to make feeding or not more meaningful. As to the ultimate nerf I hope you remember it's not just a nerf to ultimates it's a nerf to the whole skill tree.
Sun damage come stage 4 might be acceptable but constant sun damage during earlier stages when lore indicates ESO vampires are sun tolerant seems a bit misguided. Furthermore, a few % run speed wouldn't really change a thing. I can't think of an alternative currently but something like increased magicka / stamina by a few % per stage (with stage 4 being something like during day -5% magicka / stamina and +10% during night, no idea, the whole drained vitality). The nerf might be overkill (21% v 60% at stage 4) but we will see.. Mist form won't be chained anymore.. but still it seems pretty intense. I'm pure PvE currently so most of the changes are due to PvP so I can only sigh and move on.
I am still very against the idea of having vampires be weaker during the day but your suggestion was thought out and reasonable unlike the mindless "kik out of fightr guild plox heuheu" nonsense going on.
The only thing I want to cover is 1, I like your idea of having your stam/magicka/health reduced during the day and increase at night, like say -50 stam/magicka/health during the day and +50 during the night, and also it's not so much you're weaker during the day(except at stage 4 where you deal 10% less damage, but that is made up by the ability lasting longer) abilities just cost more to cast during the day.
I don't know how I feel about static v percent, come endgame static might be minute and irrelevant due to how insignificant the reduction is. Furthermore lower level vampires who are at stage 4 and have some crazy high static reduction to compensate mightn't be able to play. I think percentages might be a bit better as it has an impact on all vampire players regardless of their level / veteran rank.
Basically I'm liking the concept of increased negative fire resistance as stages go up, increased poison (or disease / frost) resistance as stages go up, reduction / increase in magicka / stamina / health depending on stage / time of day, increased / decreased spell costs depending on stage / time of day AND potentially passive changes / spell changes etc etc.
How about sun damage come stage 4 with some massive trade off come night time? Food for thought.
Edited by ArgonianAssassin on May 5, 2014 2:29PM"It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey0 -
The_Sadist✭✭✭✭✭ArgonianAssassin wrote: »
How's it look now?The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »
I edited the OP to address the run speed issue, it could be swapped out to be something more in line with the lore and not as Inconvenient. For players who can only play during the day, that's what vampirism stage 1 is for, it's all buffs and no debuffs, sure you're not as strong as a vampire who plays at night, but you don't have to put up with all those debuffs either. I also addressed the feed time issue, it now takes nearly a full day to transition from 1 stage to another. My thought process behind this idea was this, I've seen a lot of people complaining about vampires being to strong this suggestion keeps vampires strong, not as strong as they are now, but still significantly strong but only during the night and during the day vampires are significantly weaker, as they should be, but not too weak as to be unplayable a little cost increase here a little increased damage there, during the night you should be terrified to come across a vampire in Cyrodil, and during the day, the reverse should be true, I believe this also encourages more build swapping and gear changing. The sun is coming up? Uh oh, better swap some vampire abilities because they're about to get more expensive(If you don't think they're worth using with a 5-10% cost increase) and I better swap on some fire resist gear, but when the sun goes down, the monsters come out and *** gets real.The_Sadist wrote: »My only real issue with this is people who are vampires that have a limited amount of game time and are unfortunately on for a majority of said time during the in game day time wouldn't be able to enjoy themselves if they were a vampire as they would be constantly gimping their character.
However that aside I wouldn't mind a system like this if there was a significant time between feedings or you had the ability to gorge yourself and not worry about feeding for literal days or something.
Furthermore I think the run speed debuff / buff is a bit.. iffy given mist form and mounts, but that's just me.
It would add an interesting dynamic to the game, but I'm on the boat.
Ah, I dislike the idea of sun damage, more so on stage 1 where in later Elder Scrolls games they don't take said damage. I don't know, I get the idea behind sun damage come later stages but still, I really don't like the idea of it personally :P.
That aside I like the idea of a full day transition, it would be both good and bad. It would mean feeding might actually mean something and if you decide to feed or not.
The issue is I can see people rolling their vamps during the night and logging on their non-vampire characters during the day, a sort of obvious workaround.
Like I said an interesting vampire dynamic, but I don't see it being implemented any time soon given the list of things needing to be fixed. We'll see how the ultimate nerf works and go from there!
I'm glad you like the idea overall, thanks for your input. (: I also don't see this being implemented any time soon, but maybe ZoS will give it a look over and consider making day/night more significant to a vampire. What is it you personally find appealing about taking small amount of fire damage? Do you find the snare/sprint more preferable, if not what do you suggest? And yeah, the idea behind this was to make feeding or not more meaningful. As to the ultimate nerf I hope you remember it's not just a nerf to ultimates it's a nerf to the whole skill tree.
Sun damage come stage 4 might be acceptable but constant sun damage during earlier stages when lore indicates ESO vampires are sun tolerant seems a bit misguided. Furthermore, a few % run speed wouldn't really change a thing. I can't think of an alternative currently but something like increased magicka / stamina by a few % per stage (with stage 4 being something like during day -5% magicka / stamina and +10% during night, no idea, the whole drained vitality). The nerf might be overkill (21% v 60% at stage 4) but we will see.. Mist form won't be chained anymore.. but still it seems pretty intense. I'm pure PvE currently so most of the changes are due to PvP so I can only sigh and move on.
I am still very against the idea of having vampires be weaker during the day but your suggestion was thought out and reasonable unlike the mindless "kik out of fightr guild plox heuheu" nonsense going on.
The only thing I want to cover is 1, I like your idea of having your stam/magicka/health reduced during the day and increase at night, like say -50 stam/magicka/health during the day and +50 during the night, and also it's not so much you're weaker during the day(except at stage 4 where you deal 10% less damage, but that is made up by the ability lasting longer) abilities just cost more to cast during the day.
I don't know how I feel about static v percent, come endgame static might be minute and irrelevant due to how insignificant the reduction is. Furthermore lower level vampires who are at stage 4 and have some crazy high static reduction to compensate mightn't be able to play. I think percentages might be a bit better as it has an impact on all vampire players regardless of their level / veteran rank.
Basically I'm liking the concept of increased negative fire resistance as stages go up, increased poison (or disease / frost) resistance as stages go up, reduction / increase in magicka / stamina / health depending on stage / time of day, increased / decreased spell costs depending on stage / time of day AND potentially passive changes / spell changes etc etc.
How about sun damage come stage 4 with some massive trade off come night time? Food for thought.
It's looking quite interesting but I still have a few issues with stage one. Stage one is the stage were you're basically indistinguishable from normal races, so while I feel the negative fire resistance should stay.. 20% reduction in regeneration rates during the day seems incredibly steep (granted supernatural recovery gives you 10% recovery rate to magicka / stamina making this less during the day, but still!).
I think stage 4 is also a bit iffy, the trade off for constant sun damage during the day is detect life during the night.. which is okay for PvP but almost useless for PvE. So I like the concept but it seems a bit.. underwhelming.
The whole frost v poison thing is interesting, skyrim vampires gained frost resistance as they grew hungry but other vampires became immune to disease once infected.. I'm not sure which would be better honestly.
I like how you upped the damage done by fighter's guild spells (a percentage is a percentage) and balanced it so vampires deal increased damage per spell slotted (smart thinking, now if only the bloody 'kik from guild plox' guys read this)
Your wording is a little iffy '45% increased fire damage and 50% during the day' but I think I get your general point. How about a lowered resistance to frost / poison gained during the day regardless of stage e.g. 45% negative fire and 40% poison / frost resistance during the day becoming 40% negative fire and 50% poison / frost during the night (changes as the stages progress.. so 25/20 -> 35/30 -> 45/40 -> 55/50 so stage one would be 25 negative fire during day with 20 resistance to frost / poison which swaps during the night to 20 and 25, granted I feel 20 is a bit low even for stage one as a negative fire resistance. Just an idea and it's late so I'm not thinking properly!)
I also feel that the 'unique' abilities gained during stages 2-4 should accumulate, so the movement from stage 2 should carry on to stage 3 plus whatever stage 3 has and both stage 2 and 3 should carry on to stage 4 etc etc (it would mean like 15% extra damage taken from and dealt to players though depending on whether fighter guild's skills are slotted)Edited by The_Sadist on May 5, 2014 3:13PM"Each event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the hero, there is no Event." ― Zurin Arctus, the Underking.Tragrim - How do I work this thing?
Casually stalking the forums0 -
ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »
How's it look now?The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »The_Sadist wrote: »ArgonianAssassin wrote: »
I edited the OP to address the run speed issue, it could be swapped out to be something more in line with the lore and not as Inconvenient. For players who can only play during the day, that's what vampirism stage 1 is for, it's all buffs and no debuffs, sure you're not as strong as a vampire who plays at night, but you don't have to put up with all those debuffs either. I also addressed the feed time issue, it now takes nearly a full day to transition from 1 stage to another. My thought process behind this idea was this, I've seen a lot of people complaining about vampires being to strong this suggestion keeps vampires strong, not as strong as they are now, but still significantly strong but only during the night and during the day vampires are significantly weaker, as they should be, but not too weak as to be unplayable a little cost increase here a little increased damage there, during the night you should be terrified to come across a vampire in Cyrodil, and during the day, the reverse should be true, I believe this also encourages more build swapping and gear changing. The sun is coming up? Uh oh, better swap some vampire abilities because they're about to get more expensive(If you don't think they're worth using with a 5-10% cost increase) and I better swap on some fire resist gear, but when the sun goes down, the monsters come out and *** gets real.The_Sadist wrote: »My only real issue with this is people who are vampires that have a limited amount of game time and are unfortunately on for a majority of said time during the in game day time wouldn't be able to enjoy themselves if they were a vampire as they would be constantly gimping their character.
However that aside I wouldn't mind a system like this if there was a significant time between feedings or you had the ability to gorge yourself and not worry about feeding for literal days or something.
Furthermore I think the run speed debuff / buff is a bit.. iffy given mist form and mounts, but that's just me.
It would add an interesting dynamic to the game, but I'm on the boat.
Ah, I dislike the idea of sun damage, more so on stage 1 where in later Elder Scrolls games they don't take said damage. I don't know, I get the idea behind sun damage come later stages but still, I really don't like the idea of it personally :P.
That aside I like the idea of a full day transition, it would be both good and bad. It would mean feeding might actually mean something and if you decide to feed or not.
The issue is I can see people rolling their vamps during the night and logging on their non-vampire characters during the day, a sort of obvious workaround.
Like I said an interesting vampire dynamic, but I don't see it being implemented any time soon given the list of things needing to be fixed. We'll see how the ultimate nerf works and go from there!
I'm glad you like the idea overall, thanks for your input. (: I also don't see this being implemented any time soon, but maybe ZoS will give it a look over and consider making day/night more significant to a vampire. What is it you personally find appealing about taking small amount of fire damage? Do you find the snare/sprint more preferable, if not what do you suggest? And yeah, the idea behind this was to make feeding or not more meaningful. As to the ultimate nerf I hope you remember it's not just a nerf to ultimates it's a nerf to the whole skill tree.
Sun damage come stage 4 might be acceptable but constant sun damage during earlier stages when lore indicates ESO vampires are sun tolerant seems a bit misguided. Furthermore, a few % run speed wouldn't really change a thing. I can't think of an alternative currently but something like increased magicka / stamina by a few % per stage (with stage 4 being something like during day -5% magicka / stamina and +10% during night, no idea, the whole drained vitality). The nerf might be overkill (21% v 60% at stage 4) but we will see.. Mist form won't be chained anymore.. but still it seems pretty intense. I'm pure PvE currently so most of the changes are due to PvP so I can only sigh and move on.
I am still very against the idea of having vampires be weaker during the day but your suggestion was thought out and reasonable unlike the mindless "kik out of fightr guild plox heuheu" nonsense going on.
The only thing I want to cover is 1, I like your idea of having your stam/magicka/health reduced during the day and increase at night, like say -50 stam/magicka/health during the day and +50 during the night, and also it's not so much you're weaker during the day(except at stage 4 where you deal 10% less damage, but that is made up by the ability lasting longer) abilities just cost more to cast during the day.
I don't know how I feel about static v percent, come endgame static might be minute and irrelevant due to how insignificant the reduction is. Furthermore lower level vampires who are at stage 4 and have some crazy high static reduction to compensate mightn't be able to play. I think percentages might be a bit better as it has an impact on all vampire players regardless of their level / veteran rank.
Basically I'm liking the concept of increased negative fire resistance as stages go up, increased poison (or disease / frost) resistance as stages go up, reduction / increase in magicka / stamina / health depending on stage / time of day, increased / decreased spell costs depending on stage / time of day AND potentially passive changes / spell changes etc etc.
How about sun damage come stage 4 with some massive trade off come night time? Food for thought.
It's looking quite interesting but I still have a few issues with stage one. Stage one is the stage were you're basically indistinguishable from normal races, so while I feel the negative fire resistance should stay.. 20% reduction in regeneration rates during the day seems incredibly steep (granted supernatural recovery gives you 10% recovery rate to magicka / stamina making this less during the day, but still!).
I think stage 4 is also a bit iffy, the trade off for constant sun damage during the day is detect life during the night.. which is okay for PvP but almost useless for PvE. So I like the concept but it seems a bit.. underwhelming.
The whole frost v poison thing is interesting, skyrim vampires gained frost resistance as they grew hungry but other vampires became immune to disease once infected.. I'm not sure which would be better honestly.
I like how you upped the damage done by fighter's guild spells (a percentage is a percentage) and balanced it so vampires deal increased damage per spell slotted (smart thinking, now if only the bloody 'kik from guild plox' guys read this)
Your wording is a little iffy '45% increased fire damage and 50% during the day' but I think I get your general point. How about a lowered resistance to frost / poison gained during the day regardless of stage e.g. 45% negative fire and 40% poison / frost resistance during the day becoming 40% negative fire and 50% poison / frost during the night (changes as the stages progress.. so 25/20 -> 35/30 -> 45/40 -> 55/50 so stage one would be 25 negative fire during day with 20 resistance to frost / poison which swaps during the night to 20 and 25, granted I feel 20 is a bit low even for stage one as a negative fire resistance. Just an idea and it's late so I'm not thinking properly!)
I also feel that the 'unique' abilities gained during stages 2-4 should accumulate, so the movement from stage 2 should carry on to stage 3 plus whatever stage 3 has and both stage 2 and 3 should carry on to stage 4 etc etc (it would mean like 15% extra damage taken from and dealt to players though depending on whether fighter guild's skills are slotted)
The reason why stage 1 isn't affected by day/night cycles and gets less debuffs is for those players who can only play during day time hours, or for people who want to be a vampire but don't want to have to deal with all the negative side effects, they're not as strong as a stage 4 vampire, and they still get some weaknesses, but they're not as bad as a stage 4 vampire. I edited the post to add your suggestions.Edited by ArgonianAssassin on May 5, 2014 4:00PM"It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey0 -
ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭Well that was a fun exercise in creativity."It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey1
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xxslam48xxb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Being A vampire should make you very weak(if not completely useless or outright dead) in the sun and powerful during the night. Its there defining feature in almost every universe with vampires since the very first stories of vampires were told. Vampires in their current state are just.... are they even vampires or are they just pale people with extra powers? It should be a choice that if you make it, your going to pay dearly for it. No mortal should want to be afflicted with the curse unless they are extremely desperate. I mean just look at who created the curse! It was molag bal for crying out loud! He hates us, why would he give us something nice? For players it should be something you wouldn't do on your main, but for an alt or people into role play it would be an interesting way to play. When this game first announced it would have vampires I had no doubts that they would do it right and then this disgrace to vampire lore shattered all my faith in them ever being put in their proper place. In its current state being a vampire should just be an option in character creation labeled "easy difficulty" because all it does is make everything easier.I wrote a poem that I titled, "The ganker's delight."
As you lay upon the ground, cry not little pawn.
The pain will pass as quickly as my blade did take you,
but my delight will last and you will respawn.
My heart simply cannot contain my joy, when I ply my trade.
The fault lies with you, your skill was lacking.
Now your salt is mine forever, can't you hear the laughing?
Once you were so proud and now you are reduced to this.
A miserable, loud deuced fool.
With every tear you drip, with every excuse you let slip.
All of your insecurities and worries bring a smile to my lip.
From your despair I have ripped endless glories,
but our affair is over now. Be afraid for I will return for more.
I have received many titles, to my allies I am The sniper Emperor and Grand champion hero of the Pact. However these titles mean little to me, it is the ones given to me by my victims that I prefer. To them I am "Xv1er", "trash", "no balls", "zerger", "noob", "cringe", "no skill", "camper", "100% new", "the reason this game is dying", "pathetic", "a sack of piece of [snip]", "mediocre", "absolute inbred", "beyond a virgin", "ganky dork", "fat smelly 40yr old virgin", "little girl", "daddy", "exploiting loser", and every [snipped] word known to man.0 -
ArgonianAssassin✭✭✭✭
That's the point of this suggestion, it's all based on the time of day, you get 0 pure buffs for being out and about in the sunlight, but you're powerful and should be feared when the sun goes down.xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »Being A vampire should make you very weak(if not completely useless or outright dead) in the sun and powerful during the night. Its there defining feature in almost every universe with vampires since the very first stories of vampires were told. Vampires in their current state are just.... are they even vampires or are they just pale people with extra powers? It should be a choice that if you make it, your going to pay dearly for it. No mortal should want to be afflicted with the curse unless they are extremely desperate. I mean just look at who created the curse! It was molag bal for crying out loud! He hates us, why would he give us something nice? For players it should be something you wouldn't do on your main, but for an alt or people into role play it would be an interesting way to play. When this game first announced it would have vampires I had no doubts that they would do it right and then this disgrace to vampire lore shattered all my faith in them ever being put in their proper place. In its current state being a vampire should just be an option in character creation labeled "easy difficulty" because all it does is make everything easier.
"It is okay to fear the night, even the bravest warriors are filled with fright, at the sight of the might of Sithis' fang, let the blood be washed away by the rain, let the stains forever remain, another life taken in Sithis' name, another soul for the void. All hail our Dread Father and his consort, the Night Mother." -Stalks-His-Prey1 -
indigoblades✭✭✭At this point i think Zos messed up vamps so bad i wish they just took away all passives & active skills, removed all debuffs (health regin & fire resistance) and make stages just cosmetic changes in your looks ... i don't see anyway this can be recovered. Everyone hates vampires and in an MMO the majarity gets there way. The last vamp nerf is evidence Zos and the majority dont want vampires unless there weak.. me id just prefer they are at least neutral if they cant be strong....0 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lots of ideas about vampirism floating around:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/93317/vampirism-fix-now-lets-make-it-useful-interesting-again#latest
I think a common trend is that people want day/night to be more significant, as well as the stages.0 -
The_Sadist✭✭✭✭✭xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »Being A vampire should make you very weak(if not completely useless or outright dead) in the sun and powerful during the night. Its there defining feature in almost every universe with vampires since the very first stories of vampires were told. Vampires in their current state are just.... are they even vampires or are they just pale people with extra powers? It should be a choice that if you make it, your going to pay dearly for it. No mortal should want to be afflicted with the curse unless they are extremely desperate. I mean just look at who created the curse! It was molag bal for crying out loud! He hates us, why would he give us something nice? For players it should be something you wouldn't do on your main, but for an alt or people into role play it would be an interesting way to play. When this game first announced it would have vampires I had no doubts that they would do it right and then this disgrace to vampire lore shattered all my faith in them ever being put in their proper place. In its current state being a vampire should just be an option in character creation labeled "easy difficulty" because all it does is make everything easier.
Have you played an Elder Scrolls game? After Morrowind a well fed vampire retains their basic passive buffs and whatnot despite being in the sun if they're well fed.
Vampirism we get is a disease, the originals were cursed, just a little FYI.
So basically you feel vampires should be nerfed completely and utterly in order to make them less appealing and useful for only roleplaying? No thank you, that's a bit silly.
The vampire lore in the elder scrolls universe is different compared to most other general vampire lore rules, hell, mist form was a surprise to me given how that wasn't a thing in previous games until Skyrim.
They nerfed the spells completely with this reduction nerf, let's see if that deters players from becoming a vampire and go from there.ArgonianAssassin wrote: »Well that was a fun exercise in creativity.
There are a few things I'd like to see panned out and I can see 10% health regeneration at night time during stage 4 being complained about.. but I like where this is heading. An issue with stage 4 is that having a 50% chance to be stunned by any fighter's guild spell means if someone is using evil hunter + silver bolts you're pretty much screwed if they manage to land a hit. Silver bolts knocks you down and has a low chance to proc.. perhaps a solution would be something like 'increases the chance of fighter's guild's spells abilities from procing', so evil hunter has a higher chance of dealing the extra damage / giving stamina and something like silver bolts has a higher chance of banishing for massive damage.. It seems a bit more manageable in my opinion, otherwise you'd be constantly stunned / knocked down.
Lastly I don't think the drain spell should be considered a feeding spell, simply because if you want use it you'd get knocked down a stage which would render it useless for those hardcore stage 4 individuals (I know you didn't mention this, just something I've been thinking). Perhaps, like bat swam, create a self synergy where you have the option to actually feed and be lowered a level when used. Furthermore, how about at stage 4 the essence drain line can target 2 enemies or something as opposed to just increased range. The spell isn't used by my Sorcerer but it has so much potential and I'll try and use it on my future NB. That might be overpowered though. Also the 50% chance to become a thrall should obviously have no bearing in PvP or on boss monsters (or anything beyond 'normal' rank for that matter). I also recommend lowering the thrall chance to 25% or lower and capped to 2 thralls at once or something. That being said it would be an interesting dynamic.Edited by The_Sadist on May 6, 2014 1:21AM"Each event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the hero, there is no Event." ― Zurin Arctus, the Underking.Tragrim - How do I work this thing?
Casually stalking the forums0 -
Is everyone forgetting that daytime lasts ~4.5 hours, and nighttime lasts ~1 hour? Balancing around day/night cycles is unsupportable in this game. I may find time to run around for 6+ hours in a session, but not all will.aquaorange11 wrote: »Too many positive abilities... best travel power in-game (mist form), best ultimate (high dmg + great healing), best stealth movement, excellent fight-starter/stun (feed), mid-combat pause/heal button (drain).
Best travel skill in the game? Not anymore. Best ultimate? It's great, I'll give you that, but I run with Dawnbreaker and Soul Shred more often. I'll give the stealth movement, too. That's awesome. Excellent fight-starter/stun? No, using feed as a skill will gimp you for the next 1.5/2.5/3 hours (have you even played a vampire?). Mid-combat pause/heal button? Um, on trash mobs, sure. It keeps you alive to solo 3+ mobs if you're careful. Not on bosses, not if you "use feed as an opener," only once per mob, not in PvP, and only if you're the only vampire nearby (a drain debuffs a mob so that other vamps can't touch it).aquaorange11 wrote: »The debuffs are weak as hell for all that you gain...
Again, have you actually played a vampire? When you first get it (between levels 15 and 40 for most), fire IS a one-shot. It's at VR where people can afford/make Fire Resist enchantments, and it still hurts. Health regen loss hurts, and I've gone all-out on health regen set armor and jewelry to compensate; what other (damage) bonuses am I therefore sacrificing? Lastly, as it stands, most of the bonuses are broken, and all of the weaknesses are working. Yay.
People jumped on the vampire bandwagon because WW is somehow even more broken and because PvP exploiters made the skill line attractive. I'd love people to drop the gift en masse and leave me to my sacred, silent nights, but lumping on the pain is not the way to do it. Just make other options equally valid (WW, Dark Brotherhood, Thieve's Guild).
As for the OP, your suggestions are a literary exercise, no more. I appreciate the immersion and complexity from a fantasy perspective, but it wouldn't work here. Try thinking of game mechanics in terms of tooltips and simple explanations to simple people. From a game design perspective, it's just too bloated and overly complicated.0 -
Neferath✭✭✭@eaglestormub17_ESO
Please correct me if im wrong here but isn't it 4.8h each night and day ingame?
Regardless, i really like the approach and ideas introduced here while beeing a vamp myself at Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim and TESO.
But actually i dont see a chance to have something like this happening at a mmorpg.
Despite of the coding aspect - just like several other posters before me allready stated - it would punish to many players who arent able to put that much "thought" and effort into their characters and therefore negating the overall idea of TESO wich is to allow everone to play the way he wants to play.
Kind of sad but true.
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@Neferath
Day is 4.8 hours. Night is only 1 hour. I heard this, then I sat through it and timed it, twice.1 -
The_Sadist✭✭✭✭✭eaglestormub17_ESO wrote: »Is everyone forgetting that daytime lasts ~4.5 hours, and nighttime lasts ~1 hour? Balancing around day/night cycles is unsupportable in this game. I may find time to run around for 6+ hours in a session, but not all will.
As for the OP, your suggestions are a literary exercise, no more. I appreciate the immersion and complexity from a fantasy perspective, but it wouldn't work here. Try thinking of game mechanics in terms of tooltips and simple explanations to simple people. From a game design perspective, it's just too bloated and overly complicated.
Pretty much this, the chance of anything we suggest or recommend being implemented is slim a best and given how complex we made things.. it probably won't happen, but hey, it was fun to do.
I honestly did forget day and night weren't in balance which sort of throws the whole theory out of whack.
As it stands I'll stick with vampirism if only for the passives. Once werewolf is on par for stamina based users I might be tempted to use their passives as well.
I wouldn't mind seeing more world skill lines, well, namely the lich, but as it stands the current ones seem a little bit broken and need a bit of fixing.Edited by The_Sadist on May 6, 2014 1:51AM"Each event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the hero, there is no Event." ― Zurin Arctus, the Underking.Tragrim - How do I work this thing?
Casually stalking the forums0 -
dumbo✭aquaorange11 wrote: »Vampirism is a "curse", is it not? As it stands, it looks almost like a mandatory positive skill line for the Nightblade class especially, which is based largely around stealth. Not having that vamp movement passive is flat-out brutal for NBs.
Yes, my NB is going vampire for exactly that reason.
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One Two✭✭aquaorange11 wrote: »Vampirism is a "curse", is it not? As it stands, it looks almost like a mandatory positive skill line for the Nightblade class especially, which is based largely around stealth. Not having that vamp movement passive is flat-out brutal for NBs.
Yes, my NB is going vampire for exactly that reason.
Nerf Incoming
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