100th valid reason to NOT nerf Oakensoul/Empower/Lightning Staff - respect player investment.

Yazrz · March 2023

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

@JJMaxx1980

"Mythic Items
Oakensoul: This item set now also grants you Minor Slayer, Minor Aegis, and Empower.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
We’ve been keeping a close eye on Oakensoul’s heated debates throughout the PTS cycle where the nerfs were noted as justified in PvP environments, but ultimately hit the set a bit too hard in some PvE scenarios. We opted to avoid enabling too much damage on the set by adding the Major versions of Slayer or Aegis, as those buffs are meant to be sourced from trial sets and to encourage coordinated behavior for groups. Instead, we went with the much more readily available Minor versions to help out players who may not have access to trials gear (or just have other sets they’d rather run!). In addition, we wanted to add the new Empower buff, which is by design now focused on helping accessibility – just like this ring is – so it was a stars aligning moment that we think will drastically help the set claw back some of its power, without showing up on veteran player’s bars as frequently as we saw."

Source: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/613645/pts-patch-notes-v8-1-3

You're very much welcome

ZOS is not referring to accessibility in the way that refers to disability. In the context of the game, ZOS refers to accessibility as newer players or players with less optimized builds having the same 'access' to content as veteran players.

Just because that is one part of accessibility, does not mean it is the only.

Regardless of the reason, if oakensoul enables more players to enjoy more parts of the game, or enables new styles of game play, it is good for the game and its community. I have not seen one argument to counter this!

Quethrosar · March 2023

i loved oakensoul, but i have speed ring and speed ring so much more important for day to day use.

Tia413 · March 2023

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

ZOS is not referring to accessibility in the way that refers to disability. In the context of the game, ZOS refers to accessibility as newer players or players with less optimized builds having the same 'access' to content as veteran players.

See this video by Dottz to show you what ZOS is speaking about.

https://youtu.be/EU_rpgIU1vA

"This ring is meant to provide more accessibility to the game, especially for newer or less experienced players in ESO. For endgame players the Oakensoul Ring definitely took a hit, because all the unique Major buffs are usually hard to get (Major Heroism, Protection, Berserk, Courage and Force). The Minor versions of these buffs are a lot easier to get and therefore the ring won’t be that compelling anymore. However, for the playerbase that the ring is intended for, you could make the argument that it is actually stronger than before, but why?

New players often don’t have access to all these buffs because they don’t have good buff uptime or they don’t know what skill provides what buff. They also don’t have optimized groups that provide high uptime on the strong buffs. Having one ring provide all these buffs with a 100% uptime is a blessing for new players, it makes the game a lot more accessible.

Especially the newly added Empower buff that now increases heavy attack damage by 80% is going to make one bar heavy attack builds even more popular. Heavy Attack builds are also often the perfect choice for new players because they play a lot slower than other builds (Heavy Attacks take long to charge).

One Bar Builds will definitely stay popular among newer players and thanks to this ring they will deal a lot of damage."
From https://alcasthq.com/how-is-the-oakensoul-ring-changing-in-the-lost-depths-dlc-for-the-elder-scrolls-online/

I may not be a New Player but the Ring helps me!
I play Solo 100% of the time. Why? Because I am too scared to join a group because of the Toxicity level of people in most games now adays.
I had Toxicity spewed all over me on another game because of my lack to be able to Jump right in a dungeon. I am not reliving that nightmare again. So I play alone.

I realize that I am gonna miss out on ever having Trial or Vet Dungeon gear or weapons. And I am fine with that.

And up until a week ago I never thought I would get any more achievements for WB's ( I got my previous ones in 2016 with the guild I have been in since 2016 while they did WB runs. They no longer do them or Dungeon runs.

I Group with no one. I have no rl friends who even play this game.
I can't even hold the mouse button down long enough to get off a HA.
I barely even get in a LA.
I don't PvP.
I don't do Group Dungeons or Trials.
I am strictly an Overlander.
So how am I a threat to you or anyone else?

Why take this out on people who are doing no one else any harm by using the Ring just because of the others who ruined something useful to me and to others with similar problems like I have, or for New Players just learning the game?

Although for New Players to even be able to obtain the ring they couldn't really be a New Player now could they?
Because New Players don't have Immediate Access to most of these places. They would have to get a taxi from someone to get to some of those places.
Plus you have to own the High Isle expansion
PLUS....you will need to have access to the Greymoor DLC, either by owning it or by having an active ESO Plus subscription. You also need to have the Excavation and Scrying skill lines at at least rank 7 in order to scry and dig for master level leads.

1) close vents in High Isle and Amenos zone
2) Kill Titanclaw boss at Mudcrab Beach (south west) location in the Stormhaven zone
3)Safeboxes & Thieves Troves in the Murkmire zone
4)Any monster in Malabal Tor
5)Blacksmithing nodes in Glenumbra

Baffled

Elsonso · March 2023

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

ZOS is not referring to accessibility in the way that refers to disability. In the context of the game, ZOS refers to accessibility as newer players or players with less optimized builds having the same 'access' to content as veteran players.

I agree. While it may improve access for those who have a disability, the intent seems to be much broader and includes anyone that is having difficulty reaching harder end game content.

TaSheen · March 2023

Add to that, the ring can't be used until CP160+, so new players have a certain amount of time and grind to be able to use it anyway.

Tia413 · March 2023

Elsonso wrote: »

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

ZOS is not referring to accessibility in the way that refers to disability. In the context of the game, ZOS refers to accessibility as newer players or players with less optimized builds having the same 'access' to content as veteran players.

I agree. While it may improve access for those who have a disability, the intent seems to be much broader and includes anyone that is having difficulty reaching harder end game content.

To both of you I can only say this.....only ZOS knows what they meant by "Accessibility".
And I would be surprised if they actually included the Disabled in it.

Although it would look good for them if they did to those of us who fight every day in the USA to have the same Rights and Accessibility Options to things as everyone else has.

I really am a nice person but when it comes to something I believe in I take a Stand and Fight for it.

And the Oakensoul Ring helps this Disabled person to be able to play this game better and to achieve things I didnt think I would be able to achieve any longer.

Why can't others just be happy for me and for the others who use the ring for the right reasons?

Peace! Out.

Auldwulfe · March 2023

Tia413 wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

(Thank you for your sharings @Tia413 )

You're very Welcome

I am actually a very nice person but I really can't stand it when people who aren't Disabled attack things that are designed to help Disabled people.

Some of us, no matter our Disabilities still want to live. To take part in things we used to be able to do, but can't do as well now. Or we are limited to our Homes, and so thereforth the Internet and all it has to offer has became our new form of life.

Even though we know we may never be able to play all parts of a game it is both Healing and Therapeutic. And ofc, much more fun than sitting in a rocking chair and twiddling our thumbs or feeling sorry for ourselves

I refuse to just throw in the towel on life and sit in a rocking chair twiddling my thumbs. I am a fighter and I will fight for my Rights as a Disabled person whom lives in the USA.

I appreciate Game Companies like ZOS who try to find a way to include us Disabled people in their game.

I understand, completely ....
I don't normally go on, because life is what it is .... but 30 years ago, I could have, easily, matched any person on a parse --- I was a military combat vet, body builder and I ran 11 miles a day, while bench pressing 565.

Several things happened, one of which is a car accident, where the vehicle I was in, was hit by a drunk driver.... I ended up with my back broken in 5 places and being told I would never walk again.
I was able to walk, but body building and running are now distant memories.... I can still hike, and fish..... but I have also crossed the 5 decade mark.... so some nerve degeneration, due to that injury, plus other exposures in my life .....

I no longer have the ability to do a rotation or parse over about 70K on a dummy ... and that's one of my better days.
I can no longer raise my left arm past horizontal, due to shoulder injuries in my past and arthritis..... and oddly, every so often, ordering my right index finger to click the mouse means my left foot twitches, instead..... there goes a weave.

On most days, I am fine, but we all have some days where things are less .... optimal.
I have one guy set up as an Oakensoul for those days I can't do the rotations... but I am not as fond of it as I am of my other characters... because it is rather limited.... I like mixing and matching, and doing different things through a fight .... but it does allow me to be there for my guildmates with a build that can work.

So yes, it is an accessibility option -- that said, I would, again, note that you CAN build an identical build without oakensoul, but with the right armor combos, be equally as tanky, with as few button pushes, and do the EXACT SAME THING, as you can do with Oakensoul.......

Oakensoul is not the problem, it's merely a tool .... the problem is a combination of synergies with the rest of the kit, combined with a bunch of gatekeepers that feel that if you aren't working as hard as they did, you don't deserve to be allowed where they go. That thinking is elitist, and discriminatory towards the other players in the game......

If you think you can just stroll through a dungeon holding the button down, I invite you to do it with a new dungeon.... SHOW US HOW BAD IT IS.... or, in the parlance of MY era, put up, or shut up.

However you want it to be, and make sure it is not one you already know the mechanics for.... and you will find that the limits inherent in a one bar build very much equal the benefits when you can't use meta knowledge to make it work better.

It's an alternate method, not an I Win button, because if it was, you KNOW the competitive score pushes would have all swapped over, and BRAGGED about how META and Awesome it is.... It would have been the NEW Relequins and Pillars of Nirn rage...... the fact that it isn't already proves it isn't what the detractors think it is.

Auldwulfe

JJMaxx1980 · March 2023

Tia413 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

ZOS is not referring to accessibility in the way that refers to disability. In the context of the game, ZOS refers to accessibility as newer players or players with less optimized builds having the same 'access' to content as veteran players.

I agree. While it may improve access for those who have a disability, the intent seems to be much broader and includes anyone that is having difficulty reaching harder end game content.

To both of you I can only say this.....only ZOS knows what they meant by "Accessibility".
And I would be surprised if they actually included the Disabled in it.

Although it would look good for them if they did to those of us who fight every day in the USA to have the same Rights and Accessibility Options to things as everyone else has.

I really am a nice person but when it comes to something I believe in I take a Stand and Fight for it.

And the Oakensoul Ring helps this Disabled person to be able to play this game better and to achieve things I didnt think I would be able to achieve any longer.

Why can't others just be happy for me and for the others who use the ring for the right reasons?

Peace! Out.

Nobody is saying they are not happy for you. You do you. But saying that the Oakensoul ring is for disabled people is demeaning and completely untrue. Even people in this thread have said that people are 'abusing' this item if they use it without being disabled. ZOS have never used the word 'disabled' and it is implied that 'accessibility' refers to players who for one reason or another do not have the ability to successfully interact with the LA weaving mechanic.

It is healthy to have more than one single playstyle available to players. If people who are naturally gifted and can do 130k dps using a LA build, that's awesome. If people can learn how to weave using HA and do 95k dps and gain access to endgame content, that's also awesome.

FrancisCrawford · March 2023

Heelie wrote: »

The splash from tri focus should just be halved. And not scale on the model, this would fix all empower problems. The 2nd problem is tankyness, I think it should just receive the sneak function where oakensoul has one set of buffs or the other. This way you don't have 100k dps tanks, which is really the bigger problem. Many of the buffs are buffs 2 bar dds in no way has access to like aegis. The tankyness and splash is what makes oakensoul preferred for trials like AS over any other type of build atm. 100k single target dps with little to no effort is fine, as said a million times, 2 bar has more ST at the top. 100k aoe dps the size of the entire room while having more damage mitigation than the main tank, is problematic. Because tri focus does 100% splash damage mini bosses in AS die extremely quickly, therefore you can now forgoe the OT role and bring an extra dd, this could mean that an oakensoul group might take the AS World Record, and that defeats the entire Oakensoul narrative.

A whole lightning attack doesn't splash. Half the damage or a little more? Maybe; I haven't run in a trial setting. But all? No way.

The "whole room" part would surprise me, unless it's a very small room.

As for 10% or whatever damage reduction being a huge game-breaking deal -- I'll take your word for that part.

Tia413 · March 2023

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

Nobody is saying they are not happy for you. You do you. But saying that the Oakensoul ring is for disabled people is demeaning and completely untrue. Even people in this thread have said that people are 'abusing' this item if they use it without being disabled. ZOS have never used the word 'disabled' and it is implied that 'accessibility' refers to players who for one reason or another do not have the ability to successfully interact with the LA weaving mechanic.

It is healthy to have more than one single playstyle available to players. If people who are naturally gifted and can do 130k dps using a LA build, that's awesome. If people can learn how to weave using HA and do 95k dps and gain access to endgame content, that's also awesome.

I used bad wording in Post 69 and I also deleted it after you quoted me and I realized how badly worded it was.
I truly only meant that the Oakensoul Ring was/will be/can be/would be... extremely helpful to those of us who live with Disabilities that we wish we didn't have and whom want to be able to play and enjoy this game just like everyone else.
And the Ring makes this possible for some of us.

But there are some very selfish people in this world whom think only the good/best things should be theirs and they abuse it/misuse it and then poof its removed from the game or nerfed so badly that no one uses it any more. I've seen it happen one too many times on games.

Maybe you are familiar with this Saying....“One bad apple can spoil the bunch."
That popular phrase is used to refer to a situation in which one person's negative demeanor or bad behavior can affect a whole group of people.

And it fits in this situation.

Thank You for the kind words JJ. I hope you have a nice day or evening

SkaiFaith · March 2023

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

Nobody is saying they are not happy for you. You do you. But saying that the Oakensoul ring is for disabled people is demeaning and completely untrue. Even people in this thread have said that people are 'abusing' this item if they use it without being disabled. ZOS have never used the word 'disabled' and it is implied that 'accessibility' refers to players who for one reason or another do not have the ability to successfully interact with the LA weaving mechanic.

It is healthy to have more than one single playstyle available to players. If people who are naturally gifted and can do 130k dps using a LA build, that's awesome. If people can learn how to weave using HA and do 95k dps and gain access to endgame content, that's also awesome.

Yep JJ, I got it, you weren't pushing against it. Still, I don't think who says "Oakensoul is for disabled people" AND is disabled himself wants to imply that Oakensoul shouldn't be used as an accessibility tool by new players or others. I for one have stated above that it's hilarious seeing skilled raiders use it in Trials.
The problem is that people who hates Oakensoul don't want skilled players to be better thanks to it, but since maybe they feel bad aknowledging this, they attack Oakensoul as a whole, comprehending all disabled people. And THIS hurts the nerves of all disabled players who feel the risk of being unfairly nerfed - not because skilled player ""abuse"" of the item, but because a laudly vocal percentage of people make sure to express their hate for Oakensoul to the devs. Hence why I made the original post.

No nerf needed, thanks, as everybody seems to agree, apart from those who hates Oakensoul and that will always hate every thing would be implemented to enable "others" to achieve their same results or better.
Everyone grows up eventually, each one at its pace, we all need patience 😁

Elsonso · March 2023

Tia413 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

ZOS is not referring to accessibility in the way that refers to disability. In the context of the game, ZOS refers to accessibility as newer players or players with less optimized builds having the same 'access' to content as veteran players.

I agree. While it may improve access for those who have a disability, the intent seems to be much broader and includes anyone that is having difficulty reaching harder end game content.

To both of you I can only say this.....only ZOS knows what they meant by "Accessibility".
And I would be surprised if they actually included the Disabled in it.

I agree. Also, I want to point out that "Disabled" does not necessarily mean "Unable". This makes the broader use of "Accessibility" more interesting, as someone who might get labeled as "Disabled" but does not think of themselves as "Disabled" may not even be interested in these things.

Tia413 wrote: »

And the Oakensoul Ring helps this Disabled person to be able to play this game better and to achieve things I didnt think I would be able to achieve any longer.

Why can't others just be happy for me and for the others who use the ring for the right reasons?

Personally, more than happy that Oakensoul is working for you!

I love the premise of Oakensoul, for whatever reason that ZOS had for "Accessibility". There needs to be a mechanism to counter the two-bar rotations that have been built in the game. Just based on early interviews about the game, I am of the opinion that two-bar rotations were not on the white board when they designed in the ability to have two weapons handy. My gut tells me that players invented this, and ZOS went along with it. Whether they thought it was a good idea, or some quirky adaptation by players, is unknown to me. In any case, they didn't stop it, and seem to have embraced it, so it is nice to have a mechanism in the game that allows single-bar combat without sacrificing tons of content.

Disclaimer: I use a single bar on XBox, and have since before Oakensoul. I *** at using controllers and not having to swap weapons allows me to actually focus on killing things.

Tia413 · March 2023

Elsonso wrote: »

Tia413 wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

ZOS is not referring to accessibility in the way that refers to disability. In the context of the game, ZOS refers to accessibility as newer players or players with less optimized builds having the same 'access' to content as veteran players.

I agree. While it may improve access for those who have a disability, the intent seems to be much broader and includes anyone that is having difficulty reaching harder end game content.

To both of you I can only say this.....only ZOS knows what they meant by "Accessibility".
And I would be surprised if they actually included the Disabled in it.

I agree. Also, I want to point out that "Disabled" does not necessarily mean "Unable". This makes the broader use of "Accessibility" more interesting, as someone who might get labeled as "Disabled" but does not think of themselves as "Disabled" may not even be interested in these things.

True, you make a valid point here. Personally I would rather just say up front that I am Disabled and may not be able to perform as well as expected in a dungeon or w/e than to have Toxicity spewed all over me because I didn't. But I just don't trust people on games as much as I used to, so I avoid group content as much as possible. I now just try to help others by answering questions in zone chat or by sending mats to someone that asked in zone chat. It fulfills my Social Interaction needs that I lack due to having Social Anxiety Disorder.

Tia413 wrote: »

And the Oakensoul Ring helps this Disabled person to be able to play this game better and to achieve things I didnt think I would be able to achieve any longer.

Why can't others just be happy for me and for the others who use the ring for the right reasons?

Personally, more than happy that Oakensoul is working for you!

Thank you Elsonso for the nice words

I love the premise of Oakensoul, for whatever reason that ZOS had for "Accessibility". There needs to be a mechanism to counter the two-bar rotations that have been built in the game. Just based on early interviews about the game, I am of the opinion that two-bar rotations were not on the white board when they designed in the ability to have two weapons handy. My gut tells me that players invented this, and ZOS went along with it. Whether they thought it was a good idea, or some quirky adaptation by players, is unknown to me. In any case, they didn't stop it, and seem to have embraced it, so it is nice to have a mechanism in the game that allows single-bar combat without sacrificing tons of content.

It was 2 bar when I started playing in August of 2016, so IDK.

Disclaimer: I use a single bar on XBox, and have since before Oakensoul. I *** at using controllers and not having to swap weapons allows me to actually focus on killing things.

I started using 1 bar not long after I started the game. Tried bar swapping and my Brain would say Bar Swap but the message never got received in my fingers to hit the Bar Swap button.
I also could never remember which button to hit for it. Too many things to remember at once and in a fast manner always has been my doom since my Stroke at 31 yrs old. Tis the reason why I also can not Kite, Dodge or Block. And on the seldom occasion I do Block...it is on accident because I held down the RMB instead of the LMB (mixed signals from the brain). But I do know to get out of the Red Circles

The funny thing is I use Zone gotten Gear sets and no pet and somehow I have managed to rarely die (not bragging). And that was before I even got the ring. Weird things happen I guess
The ring (which I just got a week ago) just makes me feel comfortable enough to be able to try my hand at soloing WB's and PD's now.

Melivar · March 2023

I always find these conversations interesting but have one questions for anyone speaking out against the various oakensoul builds. I have 2 OS builds and 4 non OS builds for reference.

Do you use any combat or PVP addons? If so what is the difference? *bows down to the console peeps* not speaking of you guys here.

Oakensoul gives some combat buffs and helps to simplify the rotation so you can pay attention to mechanics and kill things faster. How is that any different than raid notifier or any other addon telling you to block, roll dodge move etc.? That is a crutch as much as using a HA build to have access to content, gear achievements.

Heelie · March 2023

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

The splash from tri focus should just be halved. And not scale on the model, this would fix all empower problems. The 2nd problem is tankyness, I think it should just receive the sneak function where oakensoul has one set of buffs or the other. This way you don't have 100k dps tanks, which is really the bigger problem. Many of the buffs are buffs 2 bar dds in no way has access to like aegis. The tankyness and splash is what makes oakensoul preferred for trials like AS over any other type of build atm. 100k single target dps with little to no effort is fine, as said a million times, 2 bar has more ST at the top. 100k aoe dps the size of the entire room while having more damage mitigation than the main tank, is problematic. Because tri focus does 100% splash damage mini bosses in AS die extremely quickly, therefore you can now forgoe the OT role and bring an extra dd, this could mean that an oakensoul group might take the AS World Record, and that defeats the entire Oakensoul narrative.

A whole lightning attack doesn't splash. Half the damage or a little more? Maybe; I haven't run in a trial setting. But all? No way.

The "whole room" part would surprise me, unless it's a very small room.

As for 10% or whatever damage reduction being a huge game-breaking deal -- I'll take your word for that part.

Tri focus is 100% of the damage splash and I have seen mini bosses in AS on the other side of the room hit by the splash because it scales off the hit box and Saint Olms is huge, same on tellaria you hit everything else.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2023

Melivar wrote: »

I always find these conversations interesting but have one questions for anyone speaking out against the various oakensoul builds. I have 2 OS builds and 4 non OS builds for reference.

Do you use any combat or PVP addons? If so what is the difference? *bows down to the console peeps* not speaking of you guys here.

Oakensoul gives some combat buffs and helps to simplify the rotation so you can pay attention to mechanics and kill things faster. How is that any different than raid notifier or any other addon telling you to block, roll dodge move etc.? That is a crutch as much as using a HA build to have access to content, gear achievements.

Not sure I want to dip my toe into this thread, but I will say specifically that you are comparing apples to oranges. End of the day, Addons amount to more information the player can utilize. Nothing more, nothing less. They certainly dont make you more powerful or play the game for you. Oakensoul literally gives a list of major/minor buffs as long as your arm for simply equipping a fairly easy to obtain item (grindy, but no skill barrier whatsoever). For one to obtain similar power, they have to actively manage a handful of skills and item sets to give them all the buffs. Oakensoul does a lot of the heavy lifting for you.

I have little to no issue with Oakensoul in its current state. It was certainly OP at launch, but I think they got the nerfs right for the most part. I am all for one bar builds being viable, but they shouldn't be competitive with a proper 2 bar build, and for the most part, they arent. That said, I wouldnt lose a lot of sleep if a HA one Bar build got nerfed by 10-15%. They are admittedly slightly over-tuned at the moment.

SkaiFaith · March 2023

Genuine question: if right now the state of Oakensoul is "fair enough" but it is "slightly overpowered" only when put in synergy with specific Heavy Attack sets... Wouldn't it be better to adjust said sets bonuses instead of touching Oakensoul or Empower or the Lightning staff passives?

I'm sure there's people like me utilizing Oakensoul + Empower + Lightning staff BUT still being in the 60-70K DPS because they don't want to get the specific Heavy Attack sets and just want to use other sets they enjoy more.
So, wouldn't it be unfair to them (us) nerfing Oakensoul/Empower/Lightning staff passives, when the problem only happen when in synergy with those specific Heavy Attack sets?

I'm genuinely asking if this sounds more legitimate or crazy, I've made this thought up just now...
P.s. I'm not stating it has to be done either, to be clear.

Vulkunne · March 2023

Liguar wrote: »

It's very timely that TheJimquisition just happened to upload a video last night about some of the backlash against accessibility options in games and the question of who should be able to enjoy games (as in, why not everyone).

There's a whole slew of quotables from the video and it was very interesting to see the way some developers are taking on the idea of making games more accessible (like the really weird ring system in FFXIV) that but the quote that stuck was:

"The sneering at difficulty and accessibility settings and the argument that you should just be better at games essentially communicate that people who need help are inherently inferior." -JSS

Are you by chance familiar with the story behind the Legend of Zelda?

Sufficed to say the original gem almost wasn't sold in America because the developers didn't feel people over here were smart enough to appreciate it.

Secondly, you may not like what I say but you know I'm being honest and I mean what I say without agenda, middle man or hidden alterior motives. Unlike some 'authorities' out there whose product, opinions, comments have proven to be questionable, subject to change at a whim and have a proven track record of not even listening to feedback or acknowledging contrasting points of view, which I do.

So yeah. I think I'm fine.

Vulkunne · March 2023

Tia413 wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

None of that is really the point. No one should have OS. It is still over the top and never should have been added to the game.

OS is the answer to a question no one asked. What happens is players get OS and they get stop learning. If you want to be strong and good at this game, drop OS, delete it, walk away from it and learn how things really work.

For example, in every one of my builds, I get everything I need without OS and have another bar that's useful as well. OS is wasteful and leads to power creap because people have buffs that they don't even need or will rarely use. OS is like ZOS apologizing for players not being smart enough to make a build, so they give you a (1)pc set that is so over powered and not grounded its not even funny. No critical thinking, problem solving or real work involved. Not to mention as I've seen before many OS users have no idea what half of those buffs even do or how they relate to gameplay.

To me when people go on about OS it means you don't know how to make a proper build. You don't know what you're doing, you don't want to learn and you want to spend a short, very very brief amount of time and work tracking down (1) Mythic so you can have it do the thinking for you. I don't mean to be smug here however I have such a low opinion of OS its not even funny and anyone who gets too comfortable using it does themselves a great disservice in the long run. Especially if certain things change in the game you will not understand how to adapt.

Just like with DK Wings from back in the day, I shoot down folks all the time thinking OS is the big answer and it lets them down every... single... time. Just like back in the day with those other DK who thought DK Wings was the big answer to everything. They died even faster.

[edited to remove quote]

People like you make me so very angry! Where is the respect for people with Disabilities in anything you said? Why don't you direct your anger over the misuse of the Oakensoul ring at the people in the game who are misusing it and aren't disabled?

You speak like you expect nothing but Non Disabled people to be allowed to play this game. Correct me if I am wrong.

Not all of us live Normal lives....some of us were born with Birth Defects, some of us had RL things happen to us that caused our Disabilities (accidents at work, car accidents, injuries incurred by the aggressive acts of another person... to name a few), and some of us have had Strokes (which a person has no control over preventing happening at any age).

It does not make us so stupid that we can't play a video game nor less capable of being able to play a video game. It just means we have limitations to how we can play said video game. And some games, some of us just can't play at all.

I myself suffer from 2 sets of those above mentioned types of Disabilities and it caused me to lose a vast majority of my Motor Impulses (hand to brain connection). 1 I will discuss, the other I won't.

At 31 yrs of age I had a Stroke ...I lost the ability to ever be a 4.0 student again. My IQ even now is lower than what it was. I had to re-learn how to Speak, Walk, do simple Math, Read, Write, Drink, Feed myself, to do normal every day things, etc. And I couldn't even recognize my own children. I used to be able to type 80WPM without looking at my keys. Now I can barely type 40WPM and I have to look at my keys to even type. I use to be able to play Console games, but I lost the ability to use a Controller. But I accept that! I could have just sat there and felt sorry for myself and let myself wither away or I could fight to regain as much of my old self as I could and appreciate the fact that I was still alive. And I chose to fight it.
****
I am not writing this to get you to feel sorry for me...I don't want your sympathy. I am just hoping that I can get you and others to realize LIFE is hard enough for Disabled people already...that doesn't mean you have to make it even harder for us

It does not mean I am stupid, it just means I am limited in how my Neurological responses are received in my brain and my reaction time is slower because of that and I have to find other ways to do things I used to be able to do.

And I definitely SHOULD not be limited on being able to play a online game just because I am disabled and am unable to use 2 bars to play the game the way YOU think I should play it ( My Way or the Highway form of thinking)or my build isn't the Preferred or w/e ya'll call it build! Nor because I can't use WASD to move and have to use my Up and Down Arrow keys on my Keyboard to only move Forwards or Backwards. And my Mouse to turn my Camera Angle. My NUM keys for my skills. Nor because my Neurological responses don't afford me the time to Block or Dodge incoming attacks.
I accept that I will never be able to do Trials and Group Dungeons, because of the One Way form of thinking so many people like you have in this game. So.....IDC.

I still enjoy the game. I still enjoy running my 1 bar build(as I have since starting the game back in 2016) and swapping out skills from time to time just to see which is a more viable skill. And because of my Trial and Error method I managed to find 2 sets of gear that work out wonderfully for me and I am not only a 1 bar build....I am also a pet-less MagSorc build who just got the Oakensoul Ring a week ago. The Oakensoul Ring opened up new possibilities for me that I had been afraid to try Solo like WB's and PD's. It gave me more things to do now and I love it.

(EDUCATE YOURSELF) Here in the USA the Disabled have Rights by this ......Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act or the Americans with Disabilities Act, both of which require accessibility and are meant to prevent discrimination of individuals with disabilities.
According to data provided by Sayfarth Shaw, since 2015, the number of accessibility lawsuits has increased by almost 10-fold, with almost half of those relating to organizations in retails and online sales.

The 21st Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act of 2010 requires accessible communication options to be available in television, video, and streaming services. It wasn't until 2019, however, that this act finally applied to video games.
[url="https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2019/05/09/passionate-video-gamers-dont-let-their-disabilities-stop-them/3661312002/[/url]
https://accessibility.com/blog/the-state-of-accessibility-in-gaming-in-2021
[url="https://www.forbes.com/sites/lakenbrooks/2021/10/13/disabled-gamers-are-using-video-games-for-self-care/?sh=390914ce6884tp://[/url]

Embrace us instead of Shunning us because.....Disabled people are here to stay like it or not!
And I applaud ZOS for creating a way to make it easier for those of us with Disabilities to be able to play TESO!

There's no real point in us trying to establish a dialogue as you've more or less not been in favor of what I think for several threads now.

That said, I most def respect your feelings on the matter and your right to disagree. It doesn't necessarily mean I agree with you but if you feel strongly about this that's fine with me.

Vulkunne · March 2023

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I have no interest at all in "going further". Oakensoul enables me to deal with combat that's not intuitive, or interesting, or viable for me.

Some of us - like me - just want to have fun in this game. Without elitists attemptiing to put us down for not "going further".

Hmmm. You just wnt to have fun ok. But lemme ask you a question. If I had a ring that gave me a ton of buffs and unlocks things that are supposed to be behind other sets and I own you in combat then you would say its not fair that I have an advantage that I neither earned nor deserve.

And that's where we're coming from. Its not fair for someone to have all this power in one item and succeed in combat gameplay that as you said, to 'you' its not intuitive, or interesting or viable for you so why do it in the first place? Do you see what I'm saying. You're not happy about combat so you lean on your ring to prove a point to the rest of us who do find PvP intuitive, interesting and viable.

There is a difference. Its not just all about you and 'your fun' when it stacks the odds against other players. Moreover, just because you have Oak doesn't make up for not understanding how PvP works, esp if you hate it to begin with you're going to really hate losing to ppl who know more than you without the ring.

If you had that ring, I'd care the same as if you didn't....
Honestly, Oakensoul dies in PVP .... I have seen it, and done it .. the number of dead single bar players my NightBlade has left behind is pretty long......

I've tried using it in PVP --- I have died to a good player with a 2 bar setup, EVERY SINGLE TIME....

It works best in PVE .... seriously... don't like it, then leave and find another group ..... easy enough.

Of course, we could also fix the one, seriously, broken part of the game that is, pretty much, an exploit .....
Animation cancelling, and breaking the Global Cool Down with light attacks... put them on the same GCD at one second as everything else..... it shouldn't be that people that wiggle faster can somehow do more damage... or that master some rythm.

Auldwulfe

Yeah and that's why I do somewhat agree with JohnAlterat's point of view. In learning ESO, it actually can be alot to take in, especially when mixed with one's job/family/daily routine.

So in that regard OS is fine as like a bridge between here and there. Conceptually, while I never used OS there was another set that was my bridge for awhile, DKS Dreugh King Slayer. Its a good set and I had fun like going thru FG to get it, doing so helped develop my skills as an early tank.

However. Its very important to note that this set ultimately was the bottle neck that held me back. And as I discovered there was much more to the game once I gave this up and opened all the doors and windows so to speak *chuckles*.

If I had stayed on this set, I would be years behind. Still not a bad set, just like OS might be viewed the same way, though I am not trying to draw any parallel between these two sets other than that from a metaphorical perspective in what they represent.

Ultimately, everyone has to move on. Enjoy your time with OS but for those inclined don't let that set own you, be prepared to move on for greater things at some point.

Starbridge84 · March 2023

Not to rain on your post (which I don't think they should nerf it either) but you say 3600CP like its some milestone of power. There is a point where once you are past 800CP extra CP levels don't mean much because you can only have a build consisting of 4/4/4. Sure you get some minor passives along the way but for the most part once you have your socket slots maxed out, which only costs about 750CP the others are very minor.

I do love Okensoul because I lack the ability to get the timing down to bar swap, but when the ring first came out I called it on day 2... "This is getting nerfed" Which if they want to balance 1bar vs 2bar, maybe they should be retooling 2bar and put a 30sec cooldown on bar swapping. Because you know people are running custom macros, which is a form of hacking. 1 button to preform multiple functions.

Auldwulfe · March 2023

Vulkunne wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I have no interest at all in "going further". Oakensoul enables me to deal with combat that's not intuitive, or interesting, or viable for me.

Some of us - like me - just want to have fun in this game. Without elitists attemptiing to put us down for not "going further".

Hmmm. You just wnt to have fun ok. But lemme ask you a question. If I had a ring that gave me a ton of buffs and unlocks things that are supposed to be behind other sets and I own you in combat then you would say its not fair that I have an advantage that I neither earned nor deserve.

And that's where we're coming from. Its not fair for someone to have all this power in one item and succeed in combat gameplay that as you said, to 'you' its not intuitive, or interesting or viable for you so why do it in the first place? Do you see what I'm saying. You're not happy about combat so you lean on your ring to prove a point to the rest of us who do find PvP intuitive, interesting and viable.

There is a difference. Its not just all about you and 'your fun' when it stacks the odds against other players. Moreover, just because you have Oak doesn't make up for not understanding how PvP works, esp if you hate it to begin with you're going to really hate losing to ppl who know more than you without the ring.

If you had that ring, I'd care the same as if you didn't....
Honestly, Oakensoul dies in PVP .... I have seen it, and done it .. the number of dead single bar players my NightBlade has left behind is pretty long......

I've tried using it in PVP --- I have died to a good player with a 2 bar setup, EVERY SINGLE TIME....

It works best in PVE .... seriously... don't like it, then leave and find another group ..... easy enough.

Of course, we could also fix the one, seriously, broken part of the game that is, pretty much, an exploit .....
Animation cancelling, and breaking the Global Cool Down with light attacks... put them on the same GCD at one second as everything else..... it shouldn't be that people that wiggle faster can somehow do more damage... or that master some rythm.

Auldwulfe

Yeah and that's why I do somewhat agree with JohnAlterat's point of view. In learning ESO, it actually can be alot to take in, especially when mixed with one's job/family/daily routine.

So in that regard OS is fine as like a bridge between here and there. Conceptually, while I never used OS there was another set that was my bridge for awhile, DKS Dreugh King Slayer. Its a good set and I had fun like going thru FG to get it, doing so helped develop my skills as an early tank.

However. Its very important to note that this set ultimately was the bottle neck that held me back. And as I discovered there was much more to the game once I gave this up and opened all the doors and windows so to speak *chuckles*.

If I had stayed on this set, I would be years behind. Still not a bad set, just like OS might be viewed the same way, though I am not trying to draw any parallel between these two sets other than that from a metaphorical perspective in what they represent.

Ultimately, everyone has to move on. Enjoy your time with OS but for those inclined don't let that set own you, be prepared to move on for greater things at some point.

That's the point, though, I use it on the days my nerves and arthritis get the better of me.. but honestly, I do get a bit bored with it, as I like variety, and trying different things --- However, after a day of work, I want to do some time in Tamriel to relax and have fun..... especially since we have had 20 inches of snow, just today... and I can't get out and hike and fish. So, on my rough days, I use it... other days, I do other things.... and some days, I go from place to place seeing how high of a location I can jump from, and NOT die...... just because.

Auldwulfe

SkaiFaith · March 2023

@Starbridge84 don't worry... I was just joking in the OP when talking about the 3.600 CP, my point was more about "if you've spent all that time on the game and still can't get things done, man it's sad! You HAVE to be skilled at that point..." But I was simply trying to mimic Nefas comedy to be honest - if he seen it maybe he laughed at it 😂 I didn't mean to be too serious.

Amottica · March 2023

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Oakensoul power has not been gifted to everyone for free.
One has to purchase Greymoor, High Isle, Murkmire...
One has to level up Scrying and Excavation...
One has to clear Volcanic Vents, which we should admit are not easy to solo for low level player, especially when Necrom will come out and last year zones will become desert. I am CP 1.800 and WITH Oakensoul I can clear them solo, but I happened to see higher level players without Oakensoul attempting to solo them and fail badly.
To optimize the build one has to clear several times different Group Dungeons, take Bastian to Max Level (Blackwood purchase), and be able to slot specific CPs which requires to be high level.

None of these are reasons to not balanced items and builds in the game. Considering many already have the ring the reasons would no longer hold any justification if they did to begin with.

FrancisCrawford · March 2023

Heelie wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

The splash from tri focus should just be halved. And not scale on the model, this would fix all empower problems. The 2nd problem is tankyness, I think it should just receive the sneak function where oakensoul has one set of buffs or the other. This way you don't have 100k dps tanks, which is really the bigger problem. Many of the buffs are buffs 2 bar dds in no way has access to like aegis. The tankyness and splash is what makes oakensoul preferred for trials like AS over any other type of build atm. 100k single target dps with little to no effort is fine, as said a million times, 2 bar has more ST at the top. 100k aoe dps the size of the entire room while having more damage mitigation than the main tank, is problematic. Because tri focus does 100% splash damage mini bosses in AS die extremely quickly, therefore you can now forgoe the OT role and bring an extra dd, this could mean that an oakensoul group might take the AS World Record, and that defeats the entire Oakensoul narrative.

A whole lightning attack doesn't splash. Half the damage or a little more? Maybe; I haven't run in a trial setting. But all? No way.

The "whole room" part would surprise me, unless it's a very small room.

As for 10% or whatever damage reduction being a huge game-breaking deal -- I'll take your word for that part.

Tri focus is 100% of the damage splash and I have seen mini bosses in AS on the other side of the room hit by the splash because it scales off the hit box and Saint Olms is huge, same on tellaria you hit everything else.

I thought that only the final hit of a lightning heavy attack splashed. But I agree that the wording of Tri Focus seems to say otherwise.

FrancisCrawford · March 2023

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Genuine question: if right now the state of Oakensoul is "fair enough" but it is "slightly overpowered" only when put in synergy with specific Heavy Attack sets... Wouldn't it be better to adjust said sets bonuses instead of touching Oakensoul or Empower or the Lightning staff passives?

I'm sure there's people like me utilizing Oakensoul + Empower + Lightning staff BUT still being in the 60-70K DPS because they don't want to get the specific Heavy Attack sets and just want to use other sets they enjoy more.
So, wouldn't it be unfair to them (us) nerfing Oakensoul/Empower/Lightning staff passives, when the problem only happen when in synergy with those specific Heavy Attack sets?

I'm genuinely asking if this sounds more legitimate or crazy, I've made this thought up just now...
P.s. I'm not stating it has to be done either, to be clear.

Of course. If anything gets nerfed, it should and probably will be Sergeant's Mail.

For the record -- I do NOT want Sergeant's Mail nerfed. I've subscribed since launch, and it's quickly becoming one of my favorite sets ever specifically because it is strong.

Starbridge84 · March 2023

In all honesty, it's clear that 2bar players feel threatened by the ring.

Not that ZOS would say/do it, but if we lost Empowered on the ring, I think bar swap should get a 30 sec cooldown. I would be totally fine with that.

@FrancisCrawford , Segt Mail already got nerfed when Oken ring came out. It was something like 3200-ish or more I think, added damage on heavy attacks. Now it only tops out at 2580 and has to ramp up from 645 to 1290 to 1935 to 2580. Which takes time.

bachpain · March 2023

Question: How is an oakensoul HA build different from a 2 bar build with proc sets, a few dots on the backbar , and the front bar loaded with fighters guild or other passive boosters and one spammable? Just because the player light attack weaves and switches bars makes it superior when though they are also basically "using three or four skills and one button "?

I think it is time we just stop bellyacheing as a community and play the game for Pete's sake.

Red_chimera_oni · March 2023

As long Oakensoul is making more dps then players with bad rotation and as long ZoS allow dps share/show to all players... People will never stop.

Dps share is a very big problem and will allways create so much hate.
Disable only this function.... Problem 100% solved.

ZoS disable for exemple, functions for BeamMeUp addon because this was very harm to the game.
But disable DPS share.... Nah. They love blood too xD

Heromofo · March 2023

My mates and i returned to eso because of the Oakensoul. Odd right?, but we are from Australia with bad lag thanks to no Oceania server and Zenimax having a stance against giving us one ever since before console release.

Oakensoul allowed us to enjoy alot of content we were unable to previously do from release. Yes we still lag like chickens but the ring has allowed us to have a bit of forgiveness and keep up dps wise so we don't leech on others. I didn't expect to see threads like this as i expected it to be a win win for all. Less leeching players and better dps players across the board to take in.

Let's face it, it's not like ESO has a plethora of players still playing the game. Making more content accessible seems like a win win.