How did this heavy attack build hit me sooo hard in PvP?!

Draxund · February 2023

You've probably noticed the increase in lightning heavy attack (HA) builds in both BGs and Cyrodiil. These are definitely back on the menu in PvE and all the rage once again; heck, I'm using the new cookie cutter setup (Sergeants / Noble Duelist or Storm Master / Oaken) to solo dungeons lately. But in PvP though, I usually just giggle when I'm getting hit by them because it doesn't do much. I usually assume two things are happening when getting hit by lightning heavies in PvP: 1) someone is just refilling their magicka, or 2) someone brought their PvE HA build into BGs or Cyrodiil. Nothing wrong with that, but I assumed it wasn't effective.

HOWEVER, last night I was in a BG and was absolutely SHOCKED (<-- see what I did there) by a lighting heavy attacker. After this player hit me with one full heavy attack, I noticed my health bar drop below half. This suprised me because I was on my Warden beefcake tank/healer build; a little over 42k health, 33k resistances, and heals and shields for days. I get lots of hate messages for my heal build, but this guy's lightning heavy attack cut through me like butter. No joke, my death recap was just 5 or 6 consecutive lightning attacks (each one a separate tick I assume), each doing at least 5500 damage or more. In no time at all, I was dead.

How is this possible? There were no pets or NPCs around, so I wasn't catching splash damage from that trick people are using in IC. Does anyone know the secret sauce here? I haven't brought my HA build into PvP, but that can't be all there is to it, right? RIGHT?! Someone please help me get some sleep! If you don't want to share it publicly, please message me! My theorycrafting brain won't let me eat or sleep, please do a good deed and give me my sanity back!

jaws343 · February 2023

Heavies still can do decent damage in PVP if built right.

Also helps that they can't be dodged. While you cannot use empower, you can stack the right sets to drop a lot of damage on another player that they can barely avoid.

It's even worse with 2 or 3 players doing the same. Ran into that once. Individually I could have taken 1 build, but 3 heavy attack stacks paired with the templar execute was just way too much undodgable damage.

Draxund · February 2023

EDIT: I should add, after messaging the person, all they said was it was their secret one shot heavy attack build. Couldn't get any other info. Also, I think I saw them cloak mid-fight, so must be a NB (I think). I just don't understand how I can usually have a whole team wailing on me while my health bar barely budges, but something about that guy's lightning attacks just ate me alive.

The_Titan_Tim · February 2023

If you attack a non-player with your heavy attacks, any players nearby are taking 100% of the damage from Tri-Focus, it’s a bug that’s being exploited.

Draxund · February 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

If you attack a non-player with your heavy attacks, any players nearby are taking 100% of the damage from Tri-Focus, it’s a bug that’s being exploited.

Indeed, I've seen this taking place in IC where there are NPCs to kill, but not in BGs. At least not in this particular BG is was in... during our exchange there weren't even pets around.

SkaraMinoc · February 2023

The final hit of a lightning heavy attack is guaranteed to crit when cast from Stealth. They also get 10% damage from Concealed Weapon and if they open with Incapacitating Strike (or other morphs) then that's another 20% damage. That could very well lead to 5k ticks and a final 10k tick if everything crit. You'd die in under 5 seconds.

SkaraMinoc · February 2023

Did they open from melee range? Just wondering if they were using Noble Duelist or not.

Draxund · February 2023

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Did they open from melee range? Just wondering if they were using Noble Duelist or not.

They did not open from melee, so I was able to rule out Noble's. That was the trick... I was nearly dead before I could get to them. Reminded me of the shock HA builds that swept PvP quite a few patches ago.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

The final hit of a lightning heavy attack is guaranteed to crit when cast from Stealth. They also get 10% damage from Concealed Weapon and if they open with Incapacitating Strike (or other morphs) then that's another 20% damage. That could very well lead to 5k ticks and a final 10k tick if everything crit. You'd die in under 5 seconds.

Now this is making some sense! If NB, then this would be the way to pump that damage. I'm left wondering what sets and gear though. Sheesh.

RoseTheSnowElf · February 2023

These HA builds that have been showing up in Cyro are typically pairing Knight Slayer / Sload's Semblance / Oaken. If they are using a monster set, idk what it is.

The NB HA lightning staff troll grp has been pretty active in Cyro these last few campaigns. (Well on PS NA server at least)

They usually all stay in stealth and then attack the same target as 1.

MindOfTheSwarm · February 2023

Draxund wrote: »

You've probably noticed the increase in lightning heavy attack (HA) builds in both BGs and Cyrodiil. These are definitely back on the menu in PvE and all the rage once again; heck, I'm using the new cookie cutter setup (Sergeants / Noble Duelist or Storm Master / Oaken) to solo dungeons lately. But in PvP though, I usually just giggle when I'm getting hit by them because it doesn't do much. I usually assume two things are happening when getting hit by lightning heavies in PvP: 1) someone is just refilling their magicka, or 2) someone brought their PvE HA build into BGs or Cyrodiil. Nothing wrong with that, but I assumed it wasn't effective.

HOWEVER, last night I was in a BG and was absolutely SHOCKED (<-- see what I did there) by a lighting heavy attacker. After this player hit me with one full heavy attack, I noticed my health bar drop below half. This suprised me because I was on my Warden beefcake tank/healer build; a little over 42k health, 33k resistances, and heals and shields for days. I get lots of hate messages for my heal build, but this guy's lightning heavy attack cut through me like butter. No joke, my death recap was just 5 or 6 consecutive lightning attacks (each one a separate tick I assume), each doing at least 5500 damage or more. In no time at all, I was dead.

How is this possible? There were no pets or NPCs around, so I wasn't catching splash damage from that trick people are using in IC. Does anyone know the secret sauce here? I haven't brought my HA build into PvP, but that can't be all there is to it, right? RIGHT?! Someone please help me get some sleep! If you don't want to share it publicly, please message me! My theorycrafting brain won't let me eat or sleep, please do a good deed and give me my sanity back!

Knight Slayer combined with another heavy hitting set and very high penetration is the likely culprit.

DC137 · February 2023

what are the other heavy hitting sets??

Genfe · March 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

If you attack a non-player with your heavy attacks, any players nearby are taking 100% of the damage from Tri-Focus, it’s a bug that’s being exploited.

Bug being exploited? It’s the literal mechanic of a passive. You talk like someone is cheating and should get perma banned.

2h has the same passive.

That’s like saying DK gets resources from using an ultimate. It’s a bug being exploited.

Ankael07 · March 2023

Genfe wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

If you attack a non-player with your heavy attacks, any players nearby are taking 100% of the damage from Tri-Focus, it’s a bug that’s being exploited.

Bug being exploited? It’s the literal mechanic of a passive. You talk like someone is cheating and should get perma banned.

2h has the same passive.

That’s like saying DK gets resources from using an ultimate. It’s a bug being exploited.

The splash damage ignores battle spirit.You can easily do 35-40k per full heavy attack so its not intended

Zama666 · March 2023

You just can't miss with a Lightning Staff!