Would you like to see more dark/evil themed companion?

Michaelkeir · March 2023

Have you ever been sneaking around a major city or town and got the urge to “relieve” npc town folks of their hard earned goods? Or have you ever had the urge to “silently remove” an annoying npc or npcs or to reset their loot pool. Or as a vampire wanted to feed on an helpless victim to raise your vampire stage? Only to be stoped by Bastion complaining and whining in your ear?
Well I have. Now some of you might say, “Just dismiss your companion before engaging in war crimes and you should be fine.” To these people I saw, why should I have too? Why don’t I have the option to do evil deeds with a like minded companion at my side?

This got me thinking. We should have more evil or at the very least, companions who lean more towards the dark side.

I hope ZoS eventually realize not everyone wants a goody goody two shoes companion. We want options. I was thinking why not add….
-Dark Brotherhood Companions-
With one we could eliminate with impunity and actually gain favor with them. We would have a valid reason to return to the Gold Coast to engage in old content, Dark Brotherhood Contracts to gain a huge bump in favor with them.

-Vampire/Werewolf Companions-
Vampire companions would be an easy one. Just have a companion with one of his skill lines centered around using vampire skills. And feeding around them bumps up their favor.
Werewolves would be a bit difficult. Can’t have a companion in werewolf form most of the time. But limit their ultimate to say 20-30 secs of WW and have them get a bump in favor every time you transform.
And lastly why not have a…
-Necromancer companion-
Former Worm Cult member turned hired mercenary. Using skills mostly of necromancy. My necromancer main would love this.

SpacemanSpiff1 · March 2023

there should be an argonian assassin

Danikat · March 2023

Yes. I'd like a very wide-range of companions and considering the player character can be a necromancer, werewolf or vampire, part of the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood or simply go on a murderous rampage whenever they feel like it I think it would make sense to have a companion who is ok with all that.

Araneae6537 · March 2023

If they were like Elam Drals, sure. Someone like Amelia Crowe, who’s practically giddy about murder, ugh, no.

Half of the companions are okay with stealing and, in my opinion, all those that ZOS has introduced so far should be against murder. It does not fit with what I have seen of her character in her unlock quest for Ember to be okay with murder, but fortunately I can pretend that that isn’t the case since it won’t be coming up for me (most of my characters are not DB, made two to get the skull candle furnishing, I’ve been corrupted, lol).

So, yes, I think a DB character and/or Shadowscale would make sense. A vampire and/or werewolf would make sense too although I confess I prefer those who aren’t evil and who aim to control their hungers.

What is most important is that the companion characters make sense and are consistent with their characterization, which I don’t feel that Bastian and Ember always are.

Related to all this, wouldn’t it be cool if the companions had character arcs based on their interactions with the player? Like I mentioned above, I like the Ravenwatch vampires and the non-evil werewolves we meet in Blackreach, but other players understandably prefer different, and I think it would be really engaging if our character could influence how such a companion develops, both through their own actions and through dialogue!

Likewise, if ZOS wanted Ember to be potentially evil, she should start out less cutesy and concerned about everyone’s feelings (she was even concerned lest the chickens should suffer headaches from her illusion magic) and then develop either more caring or callous over the course of her interactions with the player, their actions, and her quests (which I haven’t done yet and of course may change how I understand her character).

(Edited for typos and clarity.)

Treselegant · March 2023

Those who want an 'evil' companion seem the most difficult of players to please. Right now we have Ember as the most 'evil' - a companion who will squeal in delight at everything you do and then give one of her many many compliments about how great a person you are regardless of your morally dubious acts and yet she is still complained about because she doesn't like fishing!

The kind of 'perfect' companion that usually gets brought up in these discussions is a companion that is part fashion dummy and part compliment dispensary. An AI combat bot with no dislikes and loves everything you do. Anything beyond that is usually disregarded as disruptive to the 'evil' playstyle.

Can you imagine a sociopathic assassin character loving your long fishing sessions or being sympathetic to you getting caught by guards? Or maybe your 'evil vampire' character hates you helping people? You can already smell the complaints from here

. It often seems that the only way to have these sort of characters without player complaint is to strip them of their dislikes and make them love everything you do - which reduces the already threadbare companion system to practically nothing.

Araneae6537 · March 2023

Treselegant wrote: »

Those who want an 'evil' companion seem the most difficult of players to please. Right now we have Ember as the most 'evil' - a companion who will squeal in delight at everything you do and then give one of her many many compliments about how great a person you are regardless of your morally dubious acts and yet she is still complained about because she doesn't like fishing!

The kind of 'perfect' companion that usually gets brought up in these discussions is a companion that is part fashion dummy and part compliment dispensary. An AI combat bot with no dislikes and loves everything you do. Anything beyond that is usually disregarded as disruptive to the 'evil' playstyle.

Can you imagine a sociopathic assassin character loving your long fishing sessions or being sympathetic to you getting caught by guards? Or maybe your 'evil vampire' character hates you helping people? You can already smell the complaints from here . It often seems that the only way to have these sort of characters without player complaint is to strip them of their dislikes and make them love everything you do - which reduces the already threadbare companion system to practically nothing.

Haha, agreed, although I don’t think it’s specifically players who want evil companions who complain about their dislikes, as exemplified by fishing. That’s not even something you can accidentally do like grabbing a bug, so how is it an issue to dismiss Ember first if you would avoid disapproval???

I like companions having likes and dislikes, and only wish it was more developed to be effected more by quests and by interactions with them, and that rapport would change some of their banter lines too.

The compliments and praise are a bit much, I agree. I take it as her being eager to please or get on your good side rather than sincerely meant.

everseeing_njpreub18_ESO · March 2023

More options is always good: good/evil, different races and classes, eventually they could even add different creatures (dogs, wolves, big cats, monsters, etc.) which would be basically neutral.

Now (again) give us some more housing slots to put OUT members of this growing list of companions and all the better.

Kisakee · March 2023

Treselegant wrote: »

Those who want an 'evil' companion seem the most difficult of players to please. Right now we have Ember as the most 'evil' - a companion who will squeal in delight at everything you do and then give one of her many many compliments about how great a person you are regardless of your morally dubious acts and yet she is still complained about because she doesn't like fishing!

The kind of 'perfect' companion that usually gets brought up in these discussions is a companion that is part fashion dummy and part compliment dispensary. An AI combat bot with no dislikes and loves everything you do. Anything beyond that is usually disregarded as disruptive to the 'evil' playstyle.

Can you imagine a sociopathic assassin character loving your long fishing sessions or being sympathetic to you getting caught by guards? Or maybe your 'evil vampire' character hates you helping people? You can already smell the complaints from here . It often seems that the only way to have these sort of characters without player complaint is to strip them of their dislikes and make them love everything you do - which reduces the already threadbare companion system to practically nothing.

I want one who only likes killing neutral NPC's when there's getting a bounty with it involved.

Danikat · March 2023

I was thinking the personality would be the difficult part, especially since different players will likely want different kinds of evil companions. Some may want someone like Amelia Crowe who is openly happy with what she does, others would likely want more of a dark and brooding type or someone who is conflicted about it but sees it as necessary.

I think it's difficult to make evil characters who are also likeable in a serious (or mostly serious) setting like TES, although when I've done it some of that will be because I'm not a professional writer. When necromancers were announced I had an idea for one who would be a very practical but utterly ruthless 'the ends will justify the means' type who doesn't recognise (or doesn't care) that the ends only benefit her so no one else would see it that way. I had a name and appearance and backstory all worked out but never made her because I realised her personality wouldn't come through in the game's story and I wouldn't want to role-play as her because she'd be a horrible person for anyone else to be around and that wouldn't be fun for the rest of the group.

Treselegant · March 2023

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Treselegant wrote: »

Those who want an 'evil' companion seem the most difficult of players to please. Right now we have Ember as the most 'evil' - a companion who will squeal in delight at everything you do and then give one of her many many compliments about how great a person you are regardless of your morally dubious acts and yet she is still complained about because she doesn't like fishing!

The kind of 'perfect' companion that usually gets brought up in these discussions is a companion that is part fashion dummy and part compliment dispensary. An AI combat bot with no dislikes and loves everything you do. Anything beyond that is usually disregarded as disruptive to the 'evil' playstyle.

Can you imagine a sociopathic assassin character loving your long fishing sessions or being sympathetic to you getting caught by guards? Or maybe your 'evil vampire' character hates you helping people? You can already smell the complaints from here . It often seems that the only way to have these sort of characters without player complaint is to strip them of their dislikes and make them love everything you do - which reduces the already threadbare companion system to practically nothing.

Haha, agreed, although I don’t think it’s specifically players who want evil companions who complain about their dislikes, as exemplified by fishing. That’s not even something you can accidentally do like grabbing a bug, so how is it an issue to dismiss Ember first???

I like companions having likes and dislikes, and only wish it was more developed to be effected more by quests and interactions with them, and that rapport would change some of their banter lines too.

The compliments and praise are a bit much, I agree. I take it as her being eager to please or get on your good side rather than sincerely meant.

Not always definitely, I think it's pretty accepted that some companion reactions need a second look, but there is a theme when we have these sort of conversations about 'evil' companions - dislikes or disapproval is 'punishing' in some way. That having a companion that dislikes a particular activity is stopping the player from the engaging in it and therefore stunting their playstyle. That a character who dislikes murder is more 'immersion breaking' than one who laughs with glee as you knife a random shopper in the Daggerfall market. Noone can have a conversation about companions on the forum without seeing this argument repeated ad nauseum.

I can't help but see Ember's chaotic reactions as an attempt to placate this part of the community even when it doesn't match up with the characterisation set up in her quests. Same with Isobel being weirdly ok with being friends with a murderer. It's because people complained they were being punished. Fear of player backlash is driving companion design and that is a terrible way to create characters.

The only character I can think of which would fit the role of 'evil companion' asked for in the game would be Cicero in Skryim and well, there's a reason why even many Brotherhood aligned characters stab him to death.

I_killed_Vivec · March 2023

If you want a more "morally dubious" companion, then you should be prepared for them to hang back a bit when you attack a boss... just enough to see who's going to win - and stab you in the back if they think you'll lose.

You took them into a dungeon, you bit off more that you can chew... why should they suffer?

wilykcat · March 2023

I always thought companions are sort of sketchy. Now very soon evil companions will be on the rise.

Q: Know why companions always follow players around?

A: Companions will always want to be the player's friend and no one knows why. Turns out companions are all secretly evil werewolves who wants to eat fried player shreds for lunch.

umagon · March 2023

While I don’t view creatures from the void as evil; I would like options to have them as companions. I found it really odd that with necrom zos didn’t make a watcher companion with some back story. I would really like a deadlands Infernium companion, or one those dark heart looking orb things; I forget what they are called. To me I see no reason why they could not be companions with complete back stories to why would choose to travel with the player.

SilverBride · March 2023

Ember is ok with stealing but I had her with me while sneaking around a restricted area for a quest and if an NPC even glanced my way I lost rapport. It was getting so bad I just put her away.

It doesn't matter that she likes stealing if she is going to be so judgemental if it's not done perfectly every time.

The_Titan_Tim · March 2023

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

there should be an argonian assassin

Yeah, I don’t get why we didn’t get a Morag Tong companion out of Mirri, and why we are not getting a Necromancer Shadowscale instead of a Warden Argonian.

Araneae6537 · March 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

there should be an argonian assassin

Yeah, I don’t get why we didn’t get a Morag Tong companion out of Mirri, and why we are not getting a Necromancer Shadowscale instead of a Warden Argonian.

A member of the Morag Tong might reasonably try to assassinate a member of the Dark Brotherhood, which I expect people would object to a fair bit more than disapproval!

shadyjane62 · March 2023

Only if we can kill them.

Snamyap · March 2023

SilverBride wrote: »

Ember is ok with stealing but I had her with me while sneaking around a restricted area for a quest and if an NPC even glanced my way I lost rapport. It was getting so bad I just put her away.

It doesn't matter that she likes stealing if she is going to be so judgemental if it's not done perfectly every time.

Thought she'd make a nice companion for my Khajiit werewolf, that didn't last very long.

The_Titan_Tim · March 2023

Araneae6537 wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

there should be an argonian assassin

Yeah, I don’t get why we didn’t get a Morag Tong companion out of Mirri, and why we are not getting a Necromancer Shadowscale instead of a Warden Argonian.

A member of the Morag Tong might reasonably try to assassinate a member of the Dark Brotherhood, which I expect people would object to a fair bit more than disapproval!

Great point, they could have pulled it off as a quest reveal after a large amount of favor, where Mirri explains she decided to follow you because you were marked by Morag Tong for assassination, and for some odd reason she was intrigued by you and decided to stay her blade, and her pinnacle quest could be delving deep into the depths of a Morag Tong hideout to absolve your name.

emilyhyoyeon · March 2023

I'm wondering if the upcoming argonian will be okay with murder and stuff for two reasons:
1-people have been requesting a companion like this since the beginning
2-he was described as being reserved to himself about his past or something iirc, might mean he had a sketchy past in the DB or something

Anhedonie · March 2023

Some breton vampire mage would be nice.

Tandor · March 2023

I think what we need is a clearer distinction between those companions who like good and detest evil, and those who like evil and detest good. At the moment we seem to have companions whose likes and dislikes are mixed between good and evil. That makes it very difficult to choose between them for any character who is following a specific path.

LikiLoki · March 2023

ZOS will not take this step. The maximum we can get is a comic villain like that rat who used to be one of the strongest Daedra generals. Or a guy with a little criminal tendencies. We won't get companion a real soul-in-the-dark

rpa · March 2023

I don't care if companion is criminally insane or all rainbows and love as long as they do not whine about playing the game as intended. I'd prefer a mute one. Or option to mute em.
Minimal comments option helps a great deal but companions still blurb stupid. I BoW one of a pair of foes and Isobel comments: "Stow your weapons, my friend. We've won." while I'm still killing the other one.

Bo0137 · March 2023

Yes! Absolutely! And you know what? I'd like to see goofy companions, undead companions, weird companions! I feel like two companions a year is a bummer. We should have way more diversity! Even give us new, odd skills for the companions! They do not need to be tied to the already existing classes!

My dream is a soul shriven companion. He says absolutely nothing but mumbles, and his animation is that of the zombie/undead personality. His quests revolve around dealing with his soul with minor daedric entities. You ask him about your relationship, he says "Huh?!". He shivers when you enter a daedric place and adores when you gather crawlers and worms and all foul stuff!

Sarannah · March 2023

Yes, I would love an evil companion. But I would also want an indifferent companion who does not care about what I do, having no likes and no dislikes. The indifferent companion would be forever neutral, and could grant it's companion quests based on it's level. Making this the perfect companion for any situation an adventurer may find himself/herself in.

Araneae6537 · March 2023

rpa wrote: »

I don't care if companion is criminally insane or all rainbows and love as long as they do not whine about playing the game as intended. I'd prefer a mute one. Or option to mute em.
Minimal comments option helps a great deal but companions still blurb stupid. I BoW one of a pair of foes and Isobel comments: "Stow your weapons, my friend. We've won." while I'm still killing the other one.

The game as intended is most characters flee or attack a murderer! The whole point, if you choose to play that way, is not getting caught or face the consequences. Likewise, you should have to hide such activities from most companions and the rapport loss should be greater than it is, especially for Bastian and Isobel.

It would make sense to have an assassin, DB, or similar character who does not object, but from yours and others’ comments, it does seem there is interest in a character without either disapproval of anything or commentary. How about a dog? The mabari hound in Dragon Age was great, and there would be a trade off of less (no?) equipment to worry about but less customization and skill lines (no guild lines to grind either) and could make a fine tank or damage dealer.

Snamyap · March 2023

Sarannah wrote: »

Yes, I would love an evil companion. But I would also want an indifferent companion who does not care about what I do, having no likes and no dislikes. The indifferent companion would be forever neutral, and could grant it's companion quests based on it's level. Making this the perfect companion for any situation an adventurer may find himself/herself in.

Like an automaton, or clockwork.

DMuehlhausen · March 2023

I'm sure they will get to where there are several of every type even evil murder loving ones.

I just think they should be removed the game. They bring nothing but annoying sound bytes you can't turn off. Let them double my storage or something and awesome. Otherwise they are just a hinderance that occasionally pull enemies away when they immediately dodge roll for no reason.

Treselegant · March 2023

Araneae6537 wrote: »

rpa wrote: »

I don't care if companion is criminally insane or all rainbows and love as long as they do not whine about playing the game as intended. I'd prefer a mute one. Or option to mute em.
Minimal comments option helps a great deal but companions still blurb stupid. I BoW one of a pair of foes and Isobel comments: "Stow your weapons, my friend. We've won." while I'm still killing the other one.

The game as intended is most characters flee or attack a murderer! The whole point, if you choose to play that way, is not getting caught or face the consequences. Likewise, you should have to hide such activities from most companions and the rapport loss should be greater than it is, especially for Bastian and Isobel.

It would make sense to have an assassin, DB, or similar character who does not object, but from yours and others’ comments, it does seem there is interest in a character without either disapproval of anything or commentary. How about a dog? The mabari hound in Dragon Age was great, and there would be a trade off of less (no?) equipment to worry about but less customization and skill lines (no guild lines to grind either) and could make a fine tank or damage dealer.

I don't think there's a way for the game to have interesting and well written characters and also please the type of player who wants a 'companion' who never objects, never speaks and has no personality. Even if they added a dog I'm sure the companion threads would be filled with those declaring that they hate dogs and that dog companions are a waste of resources.

Best thing for the devs to do is to concentrate of fleshing out the companion system rather than trying to please a sub-section of the community who obviously cares little for them anyway.

rpa · March 2023

Voice acting and writing in companion quests are more or less fine. It's the artificial stupidity of random comments which gets annoying with repetition. I find that unpleasant noise, not "good writing". And it can't be turned off without crippling game audio or using an addon to cripple game audio.