Capture the Relic Question

El_Borracho · February 2023

I don't play a lot of BGs, but did this weekend. Overall, had a lot of fun. But I saw something that players with more BG experience can help me with.

Queued as a Solo through GF, not a premade. Got put into a pretty capable group, but there was a player on our team that would take the opposition's relic, run it back to our relic, and sit there without cashing it in. Obviously, it would draw that team in and we would do our best to kill them. Ended up losing because this player did that 3 times while the third team simply played normally.

My first instincts were that this guy was working for the other team, kind of like Cyrodiil spies. But this was a random solo GF group where it would/should be very difficult for that to happen. Was this player a troll? Or is this a legitimate strategy?

Necrotech_Master · February 2023

they are part of the "treat every BG as DM" crowd

ive seen groups do that before they get the relic, and just hold it

that team that lost the relic, cannot score until they get their relic back
the other opposing team, will then have to try to either steal your relic, or the relic your teammate was carrying

if this person on your team could stay alive, they can drag the entire match out until theres like 30 sec left, then cash the relic in guaranteeing you a victory because nobody else will have time to score

OBJnoob · February 2023

If the team who's relic he kept holding was winning by a lot then I guess there could be some VERY rare and niche strategic reasons... But it sounds a lot more like a troll, especially since they did it 3 times.

For example if green has reds relic and green will win with one more score... I'm on the purple team and I have the green relic, then I suppose I just hold it instead of turning it in. Because their relic returns home 15 or 30 seconds after being captured, and then the game is over.

But if this were the case I think you would've figured it out. You were being trolled. He/she was trying to troll the enemy team, but ended up trolling you.

El_Borracho · February 2023

@Necrotech_Master and @OBJnoob thank you both. I thought about the first strategy, holding the relic and preventing the other team from scoring. If he was a 1 v X master, that would be a brilliant move. But he wasn't. Plus, since both relics were at our location, it ended up being 8 on 4 which went as well as one would expect, as the third team did not have to guard their relic. Oh well, it was either lots of effort for trolling or a silly strategy

OBJnoob · February 2023

I have a question also. Anybody notice anything weird about werewolves picking up relics? I saw several times-- always a werewolf-- picking up relics without seeming to go through the animation of doing so. One time in particular the werewolf seemed to be standing there light attacking as he was picking it up.

Necrotech_Master · February 2023

OBJnoob wrote: »

I have a question also. Anybody notice anything weird about werewolves picking up relics? I saw several times-- always a werewolf-- picking up relics without seeming to go through the animation of doing so. One time in particular the werewolf seemed to be standing there light attacking as he was picking it up.

WW cant do the normal animation for claiming the relic, it just looks like they stand there light attacking (though they really arent attacking anything)

thats also why WW have different animations for harvesting or the animation for looting a chest/heavy sack looks like they are eating it lol

OBJnoob · February 2023

Okay. Well if that's the way it is then that's fine I guess. I just never noticed until I played 20 CtRs in a row I guess.

Seems like it doesn't make the sound either, right? It should at least make the sound.

Necrotech_Master · February 2023

OBJnoob wrote: »

Okay. Well if that's the way it is then that's fine I guess. I just never noticed until I played 20 CtRs in a row I guess.

Seems like it doesn't make the sound either, right? It should at least make the sound.

depends if the sound is part of the animation possibly

when i remember being a WW trying to get a relic you would be growling and swiping at air/the object instead of the normal "clenching" animation

OBJnoob · February 2023

Hmm. Well, I wouldn't say it's a huge deal, but hopefully it gets fixed one day. I didn't enjoy being the fool while my relic was picked up. I guess from now on I know better... Just another thing to add to the long list of things us players have to learn and remember about the game because there's no explanation and little consistency.

CameraBeardThePirate · February 2023

It stems from the larger issue that Capture the Relic is an extremely poorly thought out gamemode that can be cheesed, metagamed, and exploited in just about every which way. The alternative is 1 person ending a match in 2 minutes that you waited 20 for by running a max movespeed build and exploiting immovability to not be interrupted while grabbing the relic.

There's also a buggy interaction with Negate and the relic that can prevent anyone from interacting with the relic for the rest of the game.

The mode (and all the others) needs some serious overhaul.

OBJnoob · February 2023

I really don't mind the max move speed builds. Don't really mind the tanks either. To me it isn't really a problem with the mode it's just something mildly annoying with the game in general. I would be happy enough if they just made you still interruptible whether you took an immov pot or not.

And I don't mean just in capture the relic either-- there's really very few things you can interrupt anyway, and being thoughtful and fast enough to DO it when it presents itself (or even in position to try,) is pretty rare. Dark Deal, Pet Summons, Jesus Beam, and Snipe are about the only things. So if you're lucky/good enough to bash those things when you see it I feel like it should be rewarded.

But about the max speed thing. My warden (in no CP environments,) has no investment into speed. No wild hunt ring and no swift jewelry. I do have the Wings slotted though, so I spend a fair amount of time immune to snares and sprinting with major expedition. If I get a relic that has no defenders on it I'm about 95% likely to return it. The speed is helpful, but really secondary to having picked up the relic in the first place. I'm not going to begrudge someone else their extra 30% movement speed when everybody is pretty fast anyway. The relic pick-up points are the main area of contention anyway-- if you as a defender are gambling on intercepting the runner then you're kinda doing it wrong anyway.

But in that vein I do have a solution to propose. Number one of course, as I already said, make people be interruptible even when CC immune. Number two, make people go through the interruptible channeled animation to turn relics in as well as pick them up. This would slow things down a bit.

thesarahandcompany · February 2023

It's most likely people wanting to fight each other and not play the objective. There's been a historical divide with the preference of deathmatch vs other modes.

Don't think there is much ZOS can do about BG queues. Their best path would be to merge both solo and duo queues and just let it be a free for all.

Cynical_Alchemist · March 2023

El_Borracho wrote: »

I don't play a lot of BGs, but did this weekend. Overall, had a lot of fun. But I saw something that players with more BG experience can help me with.

Queued as a Solo through GF, not a premade. Got put into a pretty capable group, but there was a player on our team that would take the opposition's relic, run it back to our relic, and sit there without cashing it in. Obviously, it would draw that team in and we would do our best to kill them. Ended up losing because this player did that 3 times while the third team simply played normally.

My first instincts were that this guy was working for the other team, kind of like Cyrodiil spies. But this was a random solo GF group where it would/should be very difficult for that to happen. Was this player a troll? Or is this a legitimate strategy?

This was happening a lot during the event. The primary reason people do it is to farm kills so they can flex their K/D ratio from their scorecards. It is the same as farming kills while having a scroll in Cyrodiil. People want to fight other people rather than play the game mode. The weekend event made that more difficult for them. I saw it most often with pre-made groups. They'd pick up both relics and just wait for people to try to take them back.