Please implement Gold/Crown exchange in game

p4l4mu7 · February 2023

Crown exchange is already a big part of the game however we have to relly on discord servers while buying and selling crowns, we have to pay a fortune to middleman, we have to deal with scammers and then there is this random gold/crown exchange rate based on absolutely nothing.

We could really benefit from an ingame exchange tab controlled by the developers themselves. Guild Wars 2 already has this system and prices scale on based on the purchases made in game in real time and it works perfectly, Eso has no reason to really on third party management for crown exchange.

CrashTest · February 2023

This should've been implemented when ZOS allowed crown sales.

I'm in that crown exchange discord with ranked buyers and sellers to deter scamming, but I'm still hesitant every time I buy crowns from there even if the seller has a good rank because you simply don't have a 100% guarantee you won't get scammed.

Snamyap · February 2023

Alternatively they could put stuff in the game that's is actually worth buying with gold. Furnished houses for instance, and more mounts.

XSTRONG · February 2023

Yes this would be great!

Buyer and seller meets in crownstore, shouldnt be very hard to do a Crownstore trading page for crown buyers and crown sellers

TaSheen · February 2023

Unlikely. The way it works now, ZOS still sells crowns for RL money; some of those crowns are resold in game for gold, but ZOS always gets their money. They're not very likely to cut their own monetization with gold to crowns in game exchange, and almost certainly would not set up a gem exchange.

XSTRONG · February 2023

Snamyap wrote: »

Alternatively they could put stuff in the game that's is actually worth buying with gold. Furnished houses for instance, and more mounts.

Problem with that is many players have been hoarding Gold and can buy anything they want the moment they release more in game stuff for Gold, and other players would have to spend alot of time to buy these stuff.

Best way is to create a new currency with a max cap for mount rewards and stuff like that.

Androrix · February 2023

I don't see this happening. I just don't see any upside for the developer.

Snamyap · February 2023

Androrix wrote: »

I don't see this happening. I just don't see any upside for the developer.

Says a lot if customer satisfaction is not considered an upside for a company.

Danikat · February 2023

TaSheen wrote: »

Unlikely. The way it works now, ZOS still sells crowns for RL money; some of those crowns are resold in game for gold, but ZOS always gets their money. They're not very likely to cut their own monetization with gold to crowns in game exchange, and almost certainly would not set up a gem exchange.

The way Guild Wars 2 does it the cash shop currency (gems) still has to be bought with real money. The menu in the OP's screenshot does the same thing as the Discord servers ESO players currently use, but automatically within the game and with no risk of being scammed.

So one person buys gems with real money and exchanges them for gold. Then the game holds those gems until someone else wants to buy them with gold. I've never seen it happen but if too many people bought gems at the same time the supply could run out and then the exchange would be unavailable until enough people traded some in. (And the same for gold.)

That's unlikely though because the exchange rate is based on demand and updates regularly, so if a lot of people start trading in one direction the price jumps up. That happens pretty much every time there's a big sale in the gem store, suddenly it's much more expensive to buy gems, so fewer people do, but it's a great time to convert them to gold because you'll get more for your money. On average it balances out. (There's also a transaction fee both ways, which discourages flipping and acts as a gold sink.)

A simpler way to achieve a similar result would be to make crowns tradable on guild stores, or have a voucher you can buy with crowns which can be traded between players and then sold to an NPC to get that amount of crowns. So someone still has to buy the crowns with real money for them to be available, and then they can sell them to another player for gold, but within the game so there's no risk of being scammed.

Paralyse · February 2023

So basically this would be just a built-in version of the functionality already provided by Tamriel Crown Exchange, discord servers and private sellers. I can see why it would be useful to have the game itself acting as a TMM (trusted middleman) or escrow service, to minimize the risk of scammers.

That being said -- I believe it is still the case that players do not actually own their Crowns, but instead they are held on license from ZOS. I don't think ZOS wants to navigate the murky legal and ethical waters of directly supporting the exchange of crowns for gold. Not as much so here in the US -- but over in EU there are much stricter regulations on in-game purchases and RMT, and non-compliance can be extremely expensive in terms of fines and penalties. They have been taking a "hands-off" or neutral approach thus far by neither explicitly condoning crown sales nor discouraging them.

My only concern here in ESO with a GW2-type system is that currently many players do not buy or sell crowns in ESO, for various reasons: they don't know how to do so, they have no interest in it, they do not have the gold or real money needed to participate in the market, they don't trust other players to conduct a fair transaction, they're under the impression that it's illegal to sell crowns, etc. If all of these players -- who are not in the market -- were to suddenly enter the market, the in-game economy runs a significant risk of being severely destabilized with a sudden influx of crowns, gold, or both.

This could lead to a significant rise of (or fall of) the price of crowns relative to gold, and other unpleasant surprises such as inflationary spirals. A sudden and sharp rise or drop in the exchange rate might also draw negative attention from ZOS -- if 1 Crown is currently worth (example) 1300 gold, but that exchange rate were to fall to something like 1 Crown = 100 gold after the in-game market was in place, players might be less likely to purchase Crowns, which would deprive ZOS of the income earned from one of their major cash cows. On the other hand, a sudden and sharp rise in the exchange rate might be equally damaging (e.g. 1 Crown = 5000 gold) -- it might bring a sudden influx of bots and gold farmers, who would then be competing with actual players for the same in-game resources, once the rate reaches a point where it becomes profitable enough to farm gold for crowns.

Just to provide a bit of tangentially related info -- WoW only sells one thing for real money that can be directly converted into gold within the game (game time tokens.) You can buy a single token for $25.00, and list it on the auction house at a fixed exchange rate which is set at the time you purchase the token, and guaranteed for that value. e.g. You spend $25.00 and buy a token at the current exchange rate of 125,000 gold. You then list the token in-game, and receive 125,000 gold when it sells. The token cannot be resold by whomever purchases it. You cannot choose the exchange rate yourself.

perfiction · February 2023

Doubt it will happen, but adding cash on delivery system for crown gifts would be a step in the right direction to 1. reduce scams; 2. move crown trading out of the gray area.

Somber97866 · February 2023

Yes plz

Luke_Flamesword · February 2023

This could lead to a significant rise of (or fall of) the price of crowns relative to gold, and other unpleasant surprises such as inflationary spirals.

There always will be more players with gold than real money for crowns, so for 90% whole system will drastically increase price of crowns (in gold), but for gold there will be no inflation, because there will be same amount of gold in whole game (system don't generate additional gold). Gold only change owners, so at the end there will be still same amount of it. Of course some people will farm gold for new system, but it's hard to farm it effective without guild store (guild store don't generate new gold, only take from one player to another even with taxes as gold sink).

To be honest, I think that this system will encourage some people to buy more crowns (as form of buying ingame gold) and people sitting on millions are not a problem, because for ZOS it doesn't matter who bought crowns - even if they will buyout whole crown store - it's even better because someone paid for this real money. People buying everything are not a problem, this is a goal

Only side which will be angry, are the actual buyers, because tha change for them will come with much, much higher prices.

If they don't want to implent it, I guess that there are legal problems or just crowns are such a big part of revenue that they are afraid of touching whole ecosystem in case that something went wrong.

Paralyse · February 2023

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

This could lead to a significant rise of (or fall of) the price of crowns relative to gold, and other unpleasant surprises such as inflationary spirals.

There always will be more players with gold than real money for crowns, so for 90% whole system will drastically increase price of crowns (in gold), but for gold there will be no inflation, because there will be same amount of gold in whole game (system don't generate additional gold). Gold only change owners, so at the end there will be still same amount of it. Of course some people will farm gold for new system, but it's hard to farm it effective without guild store (guild store don't generate new gold, only take from one player to another even with taxes as gold sink).
.

This is a persistent myth in MMO economic studies which is only partially accurate.

The system generates gold every time an NPC dies that drops gold, every time a quest is completed that rewards gold, every time a writ is done that rewards gold, etc. That is gold that was not already part of the money supply; it doesn't exist until it's created by the game. The NPC, e.g. doesn't actually "carry" the gold in inventory, it's generated on death. Daily Login Rewards also create gold when earned.

This contrasts with things such as farming nodes, selling items looted from monsters, stealing/pickpocketing, crafting things to sell, etc. where the gold being used to purchase your items for sale (by a vendor or by a player) already existed in game.

We know this is the case because the total amount of circulating currency in game has grown many times over in the past 8 years since launch (just ask old school guild traders what a prime trader bid is now vs 5-6-7 years ago); the inflation can be seen in the price of materials for which demand is relatively constant, such as Dreugh Wax, Chromium Grains, Potent Nirncrux and Perfect Roe. This trend shows no signs of reversing. Some things have seen inflation in excess of 500-600% (mundane runes, heartwood) vs their original average trader sale prices. Crowns themselves used to have an exchange rate of less than 100:1 -- one reason gold farmers never plagued ESO like they did other MMO's is that ESO gold became so abundant within 2-3 years of launch that it was not profitable to sell it.

If the crown : gold ratio is too low (say 1:100) there will be less crown sales for gold; people will offer more money to buy crowns, raising the ratio back up (the corollary is that less people will purchase crowns if they don't feel it's profitable to sell them.)

If the crown : gold ratio is too high (say 1:5000) there will also be less crown sales for gold; sellers will reduce the selling price per crown, lowering the ratio back down (the corollary is that less people will purchase crowns to sell if they don't find ready buyers when offered for sale.)

Eventually there might be a theoretical equilibrium established (for a short while)

At least, that's the way it should work in simple theory, but there are far too many variables involved for anything in ESO's economy to be that simple - player population trends, sales on Crown packs, adding or removing trader stalls, new houses or crafting styles being added, changes in the meta sets/builds that require people to craft new gear and upgrade it, and so on.

One little change can have far-reaching and unforeseen implications (the Butterfly Effect) so even something that seems innocuous such as a ZOS-built interface for Crown Exchange could end up completely reshaping the in-game economy.

Vulkunne · February 2023

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Crown exchange is already a big part of the game however we have to relly on discord servers while buying and selling crowns, we have to pay a fortune to middleman, we have to deal with scammers and then there is this random gold/crown exchange rate based on absolutely nothing.

We could really benefit from an ingame exchange tab controlled by the developers themselves. Guild Wars 2 already has this system and prices scale on based on the purchases made in game in real time and it works perfectly, Eso has no reason to really on third party management for crown exchange.

As long as Crowns cost $$$ this will not work. If they switch over to Gold exchange directly then the game will not make as much $$$. ESO is an older game and part of what keeps it around is the fact it is still profitable for the company. Eliminating Crown sales in this manner sounds good but it will hurt the game in the long run.

Another thing too, you guys come onto the forums to complain about the Crowns price but if they do this Crowns, much like Tel Vars, would become virtually worthless. Everything in life is not free and getting something on demand costs something. If there is no risk there should no reward worth getting.

wilykcat · February 2023

Nice post. I agree with your suggestion. I will buy lots more stuff from the crown store when the currency exchange system gets added into Elderscrolls 👍.

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Crown exchange is already a big part of the game however we have to relly on discord servers while buying and selling crowns, we have to pay a fortune to middleman, we have to deal with scammers and then there is this random gold/crown exchange rate based on absolutely nothing.

We could really benefit from an ingame exchange tab controlled by the developers themselves. Guild Wars 2 already has this system and prices scale on based on the purchases made in game in real time and it works perfectly, Eso has no reason to really on third party management for crown exchange.

Vulkunne · February 2023

Paralyse wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

This could lead to a significant rise of (or fall of) the price of crowns relative to gold, and other unpleasant surprises such as inflationary spirals.

There always will be more players with gold than real money for crowns, so for 90% whole system will drastically increase price of crowns (in gold), but for gold there will be no inflation, because there will be same amount of gold in whole game (system don't generate additional gold). Gold only change owners, so at the end there will be still same amount of it. Of course some people will farm gold for new system, but it's hard to farm it effective without guild store (guild store don't generate new gold, only take from one player to another even with taxes as gold sink).
.

This is a persistent myth in MMO economic studies which is only partially accurate.

The system generates gold every time an NPC dies that drops gold, every time a quest is completed that rewards gold, every time a writ is done that rewards gold, etc. That is gold that was not already part of the money supply; it doesn't exist until it's created by the game. The NPC, e.g. doesn't actually "carry" the gold in inventory, it's generated on death. Daily Login Rewards also create gold when earned.

This contrasts with things such as farming nodes, selling items looted from monsters, stealing/pickpocketing, crafting things to sell, etc. where the gold being used to purchase your items for sale (by a vendor or by a player) already existed in game.

We know this is the case because the total amount of circulating currency in game has grown many times over in the past 8 years since launch (just ask old school guild traders what a prime trader bid is now vs 5-6-7 years ago); the inflation can be seen in the price of materials for which demand is relatively constant, such as Dreugh Wax, Chromium Grains, Potent Nirncrux and Perfect Roe. This trend shows no signs of reversing. Some things have seen inflation in excess of 500-600% (mundane runes, heartwood) vs their original average trader sale prices. Crowns themselves used to have an exchange rate of less than 100:1 -- one reason gold farmers never plagued ESO like they did other MMO's is that ESO gold became so abundant within 2-3 years of launch that it was not profitable to sell it.

If the crown : gold ratio is too low (say 1:100) there will be less crown sales for gold; people will offer more money to buy crowns, raising the ratio back up (the corollary is that less people will purchase crowns if they don't feel it's profitable to sell them.)

If the crown : gold ratio is too high (say 1:5000) there will also be less crown sales for gold; sellers will reduce the selling price per crown, lowering the ratio back down (the corollary is that less people will purchase crowns to sell if they don't find ready buyers when offered for sale.)

Eventually there might be a theoretical equilibrium established (for a short while)

At least, that's the way it should work in simple theory, but there are far too many variables involved for anything in ESO's economy to be that simple - player population trends, sales on Crown packs, adding or removing trader stalls, new houses or crafting styles being added, changes in the meta sets/builds that require people to craft new gear and upgrade it, and so on.

One little change can have far-reaching and unforeseen implications (the Butterfly Effect) so even something that seems innocuous such as a ZOS-built interface for Crown Exchange could end up completely reshaping the in-game economy.

Well said but they will not listen. Hopefully ZOS continues to completely ignore things like this and others want their 'own' instance of IC to farm Tel Vars.

No risk no reward. This is not another game this is ESO.

AvalonRanger · February 2023

I've seen many times crown trading at the zone chat.
This will be business problem. ZOS must stop those trading for fair monetize.

Remember, "ESO Gold" is not real money.

bmnoble · February 2023

They just need to provide a safe way to exchange crowns with other players for gold.

I don't see them ever implementing a direct gold to crown exchange it would defeat the purpose of a cash shop currency.

Luke_Flamesword · February 2023

This is a persistent myth in MMO economic studies which is only partially accurate.

I know how gold is generate, what I meant is that new system doesn't change anything in gold inflation, because system will not generate more gold itself. Amount of gold in game economy will same with and without this system. Only thing that will change is gold:crowns ratio and this for 90% will change in direction of increasing cost of crowns, because there will much, much more players interested in buying crowns (now for many people this is too complicated, risky, etc) and with new system this will release all hidden demand into market.

[snip]

[snip]
[edited for flaming & to remove quote]

Sarannah · February 2023

ZOS will never do something like this, for one simple reason: They would have to take responsibility for every transaction through that new system. Which would create so much work for the customerservice, besides creating the new system in the first place.

And if I'm not mistaken, technically exchanging crowns for gold isn't allowed at all, even though ZOS does not actively punish players for doing this.

Ishtarknows · February 2023

Terrible idea of fixing crown cost. Which of the 6 servers do we go to to establish the exchange rate? Pc as was noted @ 1300 or Xbox 150?

All economies are different and one size will not fit all. I'm all for a safer way to trade crowns but the exchange rate must be decided between buyer and seller at the time.

CoronHR · February 2023

i wouldn't mind some in-game service that facilitates crown-gold exchanges, so that it's at least secure. like how we can trade items with other players, but have another tab in there that connects with the crown store. in this way, the current system where players are buying crowns with real money isn't really disrupted. and the current crown-gold exchange where we cross our fingers and hope we don't get scammed becomes safe and guaranteed. players and the market still sets ratio

i11ionward · February 2023

perfiction wrote: »

Doubt it will happen, but adding cash on delivery system for crown gifts would be a step in the right direction to 1. reduce scams; 2. move crown trading out of the gray area.

The best suggestion that will satisfy the players and should be acceptable to the developer.

LikiLoki · February 2023

People who want to convert crowns into gold should be able to do this on a special platform. And these crowns could be bought by other players for their gold. Such a system encourages players to buy more crowns for real money. It is beneficial to ZOS

p4l4mu7 · February 2023

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Terrible idea of fixing crown cost. Which of the 6 servers do we go to to establish the exchange rate? Pc as was noted @ 1300 or Xbox 150?

All economies are different and one size will not fit all. I'm all for a safer way to trade crowns but the exchange rate must be decided between buyer and seller at the time.

Have you spend 30 seconds checking how this system works in Gw 2 before claiming it is a terrible idea.

XSTRONG · February 2023

Maybe a crown trading page in Crownstore where you can choose what server you on and there you can see what other players are selling, like player A selling 5k crowns for x amount of gold and player B selling 2k crowns for x gold.

If you buy the 5k one Crownstore let you choose giftable items for max 5k crowns

Shagreth · February 2023

This has to become a thing, plus the ability to earn Crown Crates (Endless Dungeon could be a good place to do so) this will alleviate a lot of problems this game has with its flawed reward system.

Araneae6537 · February 2023

I’m happy with the way it is. It would cost more to both parties if a system as in GW2 was implemented.

Bushido2513 · February 2023

p4l4mu7 wrote: »

Ishtarknows wrote: »

Terrible idea of fixing crown cost. Which of the 6 servers do we go to to establish the exchange rate? Pc as was noted @ 1300 or Xbox 150?

All economies are different and one size will not fit all. I'm all for a safer way to trade crowns but the exchange rate must be decided between buyer and seller at the time.

Have you spend 30 seconds checking how this system works in Gw 2 before claiming it is a terrible idea.

Either way there is a bit of truth to this though. Safe trading and letting us decide how much something is worth for sale would be nice. A system where the value of our goods is decided for us even with any kind of sliding scale wouldn't be as useful.

I'm not saying GW2 system doesn't account for this but just look at guild traders and see the one rare item selling for x million gold when you think eh there's no way. Still I respect the game engine for letting someone list something for whatever they want even if we don't all agree it's worth that.

Tensar · February 2023

I don't think it would benefit crowns buyers