[SUGGESTION] Have different bodies for Argonians and Khajit

AnduinTryggva · February 2023

I always found it very odd that khajiit and argonians basically have exactly the same body shape as humans and mer.

At least the legs could be different. As far as I see the basic shape would be already present like they use for minotaurs.

Panderbander · February 2023

I would love the option to make a Suthay-raht Khajiit like I had in Morrowind. I would second this without hesitation.

AnduinTryggva · February 2023

Oh do you have an image? Did not play Morrowind.

colossalvoids · February 2023

Thousands of people already created their characters as is, it's not gonna happen. Beth also didn't used this style past Morrowind which is a shame but that's how modern tes games are set now.

Even as a new subrace or something, it would require a rework of already implemented armour pieces, which isn't something zeni doing.

emilyhyoyeon · February 2023

Please no. Unless it's an option. I can't play a khajiit or argonian in Morrowind because of this.

Panderbander · February 2023

colossalvoids wrote: »

Thousands of people already created their characters as is, it's not gonna happen. Beth also didn't used this style past Morrowind which is a shame but that's how modern tes games are set now.

Well the furstock wasn't written out of the lore. In fact there's already statues and other depictions of digitigrade Khajiit furstocks in-game. A "race variant" upgrade in the crown store would be a killer seller, I think.

Even as a new subrace or something, it would require a rework of already implemented armour pieces, which isn't something zeni doing.

I can't claim to be an expert on the way one might do this, but games like WoW have introduced new races with wildly varying body types that were capable of retroactively displaying years worth of armor art, presumably without requiring the art to be custom made for each one. The pieces we have in ESO already adjust to the variances in character appearance on their own. I imagine on a digitigrade model they could just occlude the boot model past the ankle or something of that sort.

Danikat · February 2023

I'd love to have the option to play different khajiit furstocks, even if it was limited to the bipedal ones.

Of course they shouldn't change existing characters, or make the current furstock (Cathay) unavailable, that would defeat the point of adding more options and it's not like there's anything wrong with them, it would just be nice to be able to play the others too.

We've got Cathay-raht, Dagi and Dagi-raht and Pahmar and Pahmar-raht in ESO already (as NPCs) and they're able to use the same armour and equipment as player characters (because they're basically the same models scaled up and down - it's no different to a bosmer being able to wear the same stuff as a nord). Even just having those options would be nice, if ZOS can't give us anything more varied.

Kesstryl · February 2023

I'd just be happy to play any of the variant NPC khajiit body types that are already present in ESO. I would love to make a Dagi-raht tank

LittlePinkDot · February 2023

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I always found it very odd that khajiit and argonians basically have exactly the same body shape as humans and mer.

At least the legs could be different. As far as I see the basic shape would be already present like they use for minotaurs.

My only comment is women argonians shouldn't have boobs. They're egg layers, not mammals.

katanagirl1 · February 2023

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I always found it very odd that khajiit and argonians basically have exactly the same body shape as humans and mer.

At least the legs could be different. As far as I see the basic shape would be already present like they use for minotaurs.

My only comment is women argonians shouldn't have boobs. They're egg layers, not mammals.

True, but I think they are used as a tool to help the player identify an Argonian as female or male upon first glance. Should we look under the tails of every Argonian NPC like kittens to tell their sex? Lol.

Besides, female Khajiit should probably 6 boobs! More lol.

Grizzbeorn · February 2023

I'd love the option to make a Pahmar-raht.

colossalvoids · February 2023

Panderbander wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Thousands of people already created their characters as is, it's not gonna happen. Beth also didn't used this style past Morrowind which is a shame but that's how modern tes games are set now.

Well the furstock wasn't written out of the lore. In fact there's already statues and other depictions of digitigrade Khajiit furstocks in-game. A "race variant" upgrade in the crown store would be a killer seller, I think.

Even as a new subrace or something, it would require a rework of already implemented armour pieces, which isn't something zeni doing.

I can't claim to be an expert on the way one might do this, but games like WoW have introduced new races with wildly varying body types that were capable of retroactively displaying years worth of armor art, presumably without requiring the art to be custom made for each one. The pieces we have in ESO already adjust to the variances in character appearance on their own. I imagine on a digitigrade model they could just occlude the boot model past the ankle or something of that sort.

I don't know if you saw one of the recent interviews but even new weapon lines are apparently "too much work for art department" even though things like spears could be easily remodeled from staves. That's the level we're at, I absolutely see no way of them doing something race altering but a polymorph at the very maximum at this time. Even though I'd like them to at a point.

Danikat · February 2023

katanagirl1 wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I always found it very odd that khajiit and argonians basically have exactly the same body shape as humans and mer.

At least the legs could be different. As far as I see the basic shape would be already present like they use for minotaurs.

My only comment is women argonians shouldn't have boobs. They're egg layers, not mammals.

True, but I think they are used as a tool to help the player identify an Argonian as female or male upon first glance. Should we look under the tails of every Argonian NPC like kittens to tell their sex? Lol.

Besides, female Khajiit should probably 6 boobs! More lol.

Do we need to be able to tell at a glance?

Also they could always add some other form of sexual dimorphism. In Guild Wars 2 female charr don't have boobs, but they do have fluffier tails so if you need to know if a charr is male or female and can't tell from other clues you can just look at their tail.

I suspect it's a hold-over from the fact that in Arena and (to a lesser extent) Daggerfall all the different races were basically pallet swaps on the same model. In Daggerfall khajiit and argonians got tails (even then it was the same tail model for both) but it wasn't until Morrowind that the races started to actually look distinct, and I suspect by then they thought it was too well established to change.

emilyhyoyeon · February 2023

Ever since I started playing TES games I never understood wanting to make argonians and khajiits more animal-y. I mean, I guess I get it. But for me a lot of the interestingness of them was always more of ''they look like animals but are people'' instead of ''they look like people but are animals.''

Tommy_The_Gun · February 2023

Lazy game design will remain lazy.

Back in TES III Morrowind, they actually cared and both Argonians & Khajiits were looking properly. In fact, they even had different skeleton & animation sets. In TES IV however they changed the design to copy - paste unibody with same animations for all races and the only difference that Argonians & Khajiits had was a tail glued to the back, Eeyore style lol.

In DOS2 races, despite using different armours actually have different body models & animations. Elves are different than Humans and Lizards have an actual decent looking model. It is possible to do, but it requires more work, but in the end the result is worth it.
If you look at Lizards from DOS2 - this is how one should implement a humanoid race with animal features. Everything is there and nothing looks out of place or "glued" / kit-bashed.

Something like this, probably won't happen in ESO, because visual improvements are not important for ZOS. For instance, players were asking for Werewolf model update since um... forever and it still looks kinda ugly. How it is possible that they did "Import" Skyrim Dragon model, but they did not implemented Skyrim Werewolf model ? Skyrim one is way better.

The only thing that I can see happening however (but in the far future) is that something like this may be implement through apperal collection / motif / outfit etc. So for example a tail slot apperal could be added or even animal - style feet could be added (with a funny description memeing TES III in which beast races could not wear boots

). Of course it will be locked to Argonians & Khajiits and only characters of this race will be able to equip it.

Thee_Cheshire_Cat · February 2023

i'd like seeing an option for no boobs at all on the females. Like in GW, the female Charr are basically large cats, and the body shapes are treated as such. It's really nice.

katanagirl1 · February 2023

There are some differences for the races like Khajiit in the character creator. I don’t fiddle with knobs much due to wanting to get playing right away and my Khajiit has a very narrow waist and hips compared to other characters. Very cat-like.

wilykcat · February 2023

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I always found it very odd that khajiit and argonians basically have exactly the same body shape as humans and mer.

At least the legs could be different. As far as I see the basic shape would be already present like they use for minotaurs.

Yes please. I agree with your suggestion.

I also want kahjiits to have less of a human body shape and instead more like different types of cat body shapes. Also the lizard people should look more like different types of dragons.

Amottica · February 2023

It keeps animations the same across the board. That is the why.

phantasmalD · February 2023

Digitigrade legs would def look better, more alien and fantastical, but considering that Rich cited 'needing to draw new art for old motifs' as a major issue with new weapons (*), it's unlikely that they will create new rigs for beast races that would necessitate redoing boots, or upset people who prefer the current looks.

The rig itself probably wouldn't be that difficult to do tho tbh, as they could piggyback off of the werewolf or minotaur skeletons. Or the Faun models that they made for High Isle.

* Even though there are many weapons that wouldn't require new models [one hand + magic], or could use old designs as its base.

emilyhyoyeon · February 2023

It's already canon that certain khajiit furstocks have different bodies/legs. Some khajiit look more feline, some look more human. Cathay, ohmes, etc are meant to look the way they look, retconned or not.

Having the option to play a suthay, for example, is one thing, and would be cool.

It's another thing to change the canon of the more humanoid looking furstocks. Some comments seem to be implying this.

Panderbander · February 2023

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

It's already canon that certain khajiit furstocks have different bodies/legs. Some khajiit look more feline, some look more human. Cathay, ohmes, etc are meant to look the way they look, retconned or not.

Having the option to play a suthay, for example, is one thing, and would be cool.

This is what I've wanted. I RP a fair few Khajiit. A few of them are Suthay-raht in-character and I kinda just have to make that known. A leg option would be super nice, something I'd be willing to pay for, even.

Jarl_Ironheart · February 2023

I'd be happy to a very muscular Nord sized argonian or a Cathay Raht Khajiit

AnduinTryggva · February 2023

Are there any other "historic" body shapes for Argonians in older TES games?

Tommy_The_Gun · February 2023

If they had no intention to provide a visual optional update, then I find it weird that they did not monetised it up to this day.

Even if it would be crown store only, people would definitely buy some kind of "bare foot" boot / feat slot apperal (limited to Argonians & Khajiits) so that it could look like an animal - style Digitigrade feet.

Same for tails. It is unused slot that could be (should be) used for additional apperal slot. It is kinda immersion breaking if you would ask me. We have a sentient species, capable of creating weapons, tools, armour, clothing and of course they have their own culture, but they were unable to find a use-case for a tail ?

It gets especially weird in case of Argonians as they actually have "invented" a sport foot-ball like game (Teeba-Hatsei meaning "Hip and Tail Ball") in which you are prohibited to interact with a ball with legs & arms, but instead you use your hip & tail. So you are telling me that no one figured out that if you would wear some kind of protective clothing on your tail you could hit the ball harder and more often without taking injuries (Teeba-Hatsei is said to kinda brutal) and therefore being more competitive ? Does not make much sense tbh

zaria · February 2023

Danikat wrote: »

I'd love to have the option to play different khajiit furstocks, even if it was limited to the bipedal ones.

Of course they shouldn't change existing characters, or make the current furstock (Cathay) unavailable, that would defeat the point of adding more options and it's not like there's anything wrong with them, it would just be nice to be able to play the others too.

We've got Cathay-raht, Dagi and Dagi-raht and Pahmar and Pahmar-raht in ESO already (as NPCs) and they're able to use the same armour and equipment as player characters (because they're basically the same models scaled up and down - it's no different to a bosmer being able to wear the same stuff as a nord). Even just having those options would be nice, if ZOS can't give us anything more varied.

Agree, now the Pahmar and Pahmar-raht might be to large as in head will clip or you has to sneak trough doorways.
But Cathay-raht, Dagi and Dagi-raht don't have that issue.
It might be some other armor issues we don't know about.