This game has the worst pvp out of most other online games.

seventy_kg · January 2023

"my pure dps build"
so you want pure dps builds to not get destroyed?
sorry but by your logic there's no pvp game that will suit you
if you can just build into one aspect and win it all that would be pretty boring and braindead and destroys build diversity
not to mention there is a "pure dps build" that is 100% viable in eso and it's called ganking
you're new to pvp and the first reaction you have after losing is to come to forum to cry about getting destroyed by calling eso the worst pvp game, have you tried improving your build? have you asked experienced PvP'ers how they build their characters? i bet you slotted 4 offensive cps thinking you'll do mind blowing damage, honestly, glad you're taught a lesson
improve or get destroyed, you're a proper noob in eso pvp

SeaGtGruff · January 2023

Manslayer49 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Manslayer49 wrote: »

pvp is a total clown fest where everyone has so much damage resist and so much healing that in a 1 on 1 fight it goes on for an eternity.

i think pvp is long over due for some mitigation nerfs.

my pure dps build just gets destroyed.

pvp in this game is a joke and unfun.

When I'm in a 1-on-1 fight in PvP, it usually (not always, but usually) ends fairly quickly, with me dead.

But I'm confused. If your "pure dps build just gets destroyed," how are your 1-on-1 fights going "on for an eternity"?

i wasnt talking about my self but other players when i talked about people having so much mitigation fights last for an eternity. That should have been pretty obvious when i said all this mitigation is why i get destroyed in pvp.

Yes, it was pretty obvious to me that you were talking about other players having a lot of damage mitigation, not about you having a lot of damage mitigation.

But what seems obvious to me is that if you do not have a lot of damage mitigation and are getting destroyed, then you must not be surviving for very long against the players who are destroying you, in which case I don't see how those fights can be going on "for an eternity."

All I'm getting out of this is that you're unhappy that you can't wipe out other players in PvP as quickly as you'd like, so you want those other players to be nerfed so you can wipe them out quickly.

Amottica · January 2023

ArchMikem wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Manslayer49 wrote: »

my pure dps build just gets destroyed..

What is this pure DPS build? The build and playstyle are paramount for doing well in PvP.

Most likely typical PvE Glass Cannon, like my StamBlade. It's a massive struggle, but it's still possible to be successful, you just have to cherrypick your targets. Lower end health pools, players with no visibly active buffs, DW setups. You take a glass cannon against sword and boards or two handers or Sorcs you're gonna have a bad time.

and that is where playstyle comes in. One must know what playstyle works for them to be able to PvP well, as you are noting. Also, understanding how to PvP in a particular game is paramount as well. I do not play the same way here as I have in other games. That would lead to me being dead far too often to find the game enjoyable.

Clearly, OP is entitled to their opinion but these are things that are likely heavily contributing to that opinion. I do hope they find a PvP they enjoy.

mocap · January 2023

I just googled
Overwatch, NW, Destiny 2, WOW, SWTOR, FF14
+
worst pvp ever

and here you go:

It's all very subjective. The developers of anything on this planet will not be able to please everyone. There will always be dissatisfied people. Somewhere there are more of them, somewhere less, but to please everyone will not work.

blue_peaceful_Manticore · January 2023

What i hate in PvP in This game:

-Respawn Times. They are 100% annoying for me. Waiting from 10 until 18seconds to Respawn in batlegrounds is really stupid (from 1 to 9 Will be enough). I avoid battleground ONLY because of This.

- return allway back in cyrodill when someone kill US. It's 100% stupid. We travel in mount from point A to point B for x reason and we take 10 minutes to reach point B. We die... We return allway back. I avoid cyrodill ONLY because of This.

- PvP in imperial city. If someother flag is in Control of the zone where we die in PvP... We Respawn else where, or in sewers... We Respawn anywhere... But not in PvP. I avoid imperial city ONLY because of This. 100% stupid.

PvP for eso is take you away from PvP as long as they can. You call This PvP? Lol

Sarannah · January 2023

For those suggesting to nerf survivablility AGAIN... if ZOS does so, they should do it through battle spirit. Also, add all the previous survivability nerfs to battle spirit! My PvE tanks have lost over 40% of their total survivability due to PvP tank nerfs. Heavy armor nerfs(negatives), resource nerfs, damage shield nerfs, skill nerfs, item set nerfs, etc.

Survivability keeps dropping, while at the same time players are asking for more difficult dungeons, other more difficult content, and even more survivability nerfs. This isn't right, especially when there is already a major tank shortage for dungeons!

AdamLAD · January 2023

At the end of the day, if you die as easy and as quickly as you do, to come to the forums to complain, then there's a learn to play issue. That's just the simple harsh truth. Whilst we all know PvP right now is lackluster buts let's not forget one thing. We are all here still fighting for PvP because of the baseline potential it holds and how fantastic it is. We just need more dedication and effort from the devs to make it what it could be. I'm gonna stick up for Zos on this one. Do not blame Zos for you dying within seconds in PvP. It's not there fault they created a phenomenal baseline PvP environment which you can't adapt and improve in without complaining. (Like I stated its a bit rough right now). That's ones thing I'll never complain about and that's dying due to not being good enough to survive. Unless it's lag or when it was oakensoul or desyncing or something beyond my control I'll never complain because I should be good enough to adapt to the situation I'm in and live. PvP is all about adaption and learning. Proof is in the pudding when you see so many great players on here.

ForumBully · January 2023

Manslayer49 wrote: »

pvp is a total clown fest where everyone has so much damage resist and so much healing that in a 1 on 1 fight it goes on for an eternity.

i think pvp is long over due for some mitigation nerfs.

my pure dps build just gets destroyed.

pvp in this game is a joke and unfun.

I agree that 1v1s on open world builds are almost pointless and usually last until the zerg from one side or the other shows up...but if you're getting destroyed quickly then I don't know how you can have the complaint that it lasts too long.
PvP has been in a bad spot for so long, I don't know if it's ever coming back. We used to occasionally have a "tank meta" but the last few years with healing and mitigation sets going unchecked (and new ones coming all the time) it's no longer a passing meta, it's the norm.

SaffronCitrusflower · January 2023

Actually it's the best combat system of any MMO I've ever played. It's super fast paced, no tab targeting and the build complexity to do well in PvP is, or at least was, challenging enough to separate the casuals from the experienced.

The flood of proc sets in the last few years and hybridization has watered down the combat system dramatically, but it's still much better than any other MMO that I know of.

The only real drawback to ESO PvP is the performance issues and the way ZOS has chosen to deal with those that play the game for it's PvP rather than casual questing. PvP used to be the main end game in ESO, but ZOS has done a 180 on supporting PvP since the first few years of game release....to ZOS's detriment in my opinion.

Zama666 · January 2023

PvP - The game is always changing.
Characters have to change with it.

I have tried to kill the unkillable - and it does not go my way.

Or is it, I am just not a very good player....?

I am ok with the balance shifting and readjusting. It is a cycle.
Waiting for the Templar to be good at something soon!

Vevvev · January 2023

I guess I should add that if a person is running less than 25k HP, less than 20% damage resistance from their armor (Basically 13k and below), and isn't using stealth and/or dodge rolls with constant healing over time... yeah, they're dead.

A pure DPS build in ESO PvP has never worked unless they had the ability to negate incoming damage via damage shields (which got nerfed for good reason), dodge rolling, and going invisible.

This is why PvPers run over 25k health, buff their resistances, try to wear heavy armor (Which I don't but I know how to dodge and weave heals in), and find other mechanics to boost their survivability. Anyone with less than 25k HP is a juicy target for a ganker, and they'll never survive for long if a bunch of players pick them out of the crowd and slam them.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2023

"My Pure DPS build Just gets destroyed."

Of course it does! That's the point. A pure DPS build should get destroyed in PVP, otherwise there would be no balance. Glass cannon builds only work on gankers, bombers, or as part of an organized group.

Gankers die if they get caught, bombers are usually a one way trip, and organized groups run with 4-5 healers to keep you alive.

To take it one step further, DPS (damage per second) is not a useful PVP metric. PVE is about DPS, PVP is about burst at an opportune moment. A pure DPS build is probably the worst possible thing you can bring into cyrodiil.

PVP metas come and go, some are certainly better than others, but the biggest thing plaguing PVP is performance, not balance. When the game is running well, ESO PVP is as good as any non shooter in the industry, and better than most.

Shihp00 · January 2023

I usually just throw a laugh emote when I see a tank in pvp

AnduinTryggva · January 2023

colossalvoids wrote: »

Dying is a learning experience telling you're doing something wrong there, so learn from it.

I have played a couple of pvp shooters and two or three pvp melee games. I managed to learn how to be competitive enough to enjoy it. In one or two I excelled.

I have to admit that while I played quite a lot PvP in ESO, be it Cyro or battlegrounds I still don't understand what I do wrong why I die so quickly and most opponents not. The cues are so subtle, the builds and combat mechanics so complex I fear it is nearly impossible to self-learn in a decent time of amount to be at least in the middle range of pvp competence.

So I really don't adhere to this phrase that I hear so often in this context. Dying in a duel never taught me a lot as I simply don't get information on what I did wrong.

Amottica · January 2023

mocap wrote: »

I just googled
Overwatch, NW, Destiny 2, WOW, SWTOR, FF14
+
worst pvp ever

and here you go:

It's all very subjective. The developers of anything on this planet will not be able to please everyone. There will always be dissatisfied people. Somewhere there are more of them, somewhere less, but to please everyone will not work.

@mocap

I think you missed one. GW2

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/938738-guild-wars-2/64958379

I have played PvP in most of those games and once I understood how to build and figured out my playstyle for the combat design it was enjoyable. Before that, it was a chore to get it all together. I hope OP figured it out so they can enjoy ESO PVP.

Einar_Hrafnarsson · January 2023

The only thing that makes pvp bad in ESO is the massive number of Bugs and 4 second lags in Cyrodiil

Vanionator · January 2023

When I started PVP in Cyro, I had no idea what I was doing, so I hit youtube. The best thing I learned was from isth3reno1else, ask yourself a tough question, what did I do, or what am I doing wrong. If you can't answer that, then ask people who easily destroy you(I did that too). I'm certainly no 1vX'er, but I can now hold my own because I learned to recognize and own my mistakes. Do I die? Yup. Do I die nearly as often? Heck no. Toggle the Death Recap, see what took you down. Learn what killed you and then try to learn how to prevent it from happening again. Best of luck to you.

Luede · January 2023

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Dying is a learning experience telling you're doing something wrong there, so learn from it.

I have played a couple of pvp shooters and two or three pvp melee games. I managed to learn how to be competitive enough to enjoy it. In one or two I excelled.

I have to admit that while I played quite a lot PvP in ESO, be it Cyro or battlegrounds I still don't understand what I do wrong why I die so quickly and most opponents not. The cues are so subtle, the builds and combat mechanics so complex I fear it is nearly impossible to self-learn in a decent time of amount to be at least in the middle range of pvp competence.

So I really don't adhere to this phrase that I hear so often in this context. Dying in a duel never taught me a lot as I simply don't get information on what I did wrong.

that's a bit of the problem with ESO's pvp, that you could copy all the builds, but without proper experience you won't benefit from them. the road to becoming a good pvp player in ESO is really quite long and it's normal to die a lot, look at the recap, understand what just killed you and finally learn from it. the number of possibilities alone makes this process quite long. the non procc non cp campaign can help a little here, at least to limit the possible deaths due to missing procc sets significantly. ultimately, it is only the skills of the talent trees that kill you here.

on the other hand, the campaign is poorly populated and the few players that do hang around are pretty good on average.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2023

seventy_kg wrote: »

"my pure dps build"
so you want pure dps builds to not get destroyed?
sorry but by your logic there's no pvp game that will suit you
if you can just build into one aspect and win it all that would be pretty boring and braindead and destroys build diversity
not to mention there is a "pure dps build" that is 100% viable in eso and it's called ganking
you're new to pvp and the first reaction you have after losing is to come to forum to cry about getting destroyed by calling eso the worst pvp game, have you tried improving your build? have you asked experienced PvP'ers how they build their characters? i bet you slotted 4 offensive cps thinking you'll do mind blowing damage, honestly, glad you're taught a lesson
improve or get destroyed, you're a proper noob in eso pvp

It's tough, I will say that. I really try not to be negative on these forums, but sometimes, it gets the better of me. OP is clearly new to the game, and that is okay. But you hit the nail on the head. Most of us, myself included, would bend over backwards to help a stranger improve on these forums.

For Better or Worse, ESO is a skill game when it comes to end game content. Theory crafting without game knowledge is really difficult, and admittedly, a lot of that is on ZOS. And when you are new, some builds are just going to be easier to master out of the gate. But there seems to be a theme here where after clearly failing at an attempt, the response is to trash the game, a game the vast majority of us here really really love when it comes to it (despite many of my own complaints), rather than saying, "hey, this is what I am doing, its not working, HELP".

In the last month, OP on these forums has made topics that:

-Requested a class change token
-Asked for increase damage to a spammable under the guise of asking for more burst damage
-Trashed PVP
-Made a rage quite thread

Other than the last one, I would love to help him.
-We could discuss the class he chose, the pitfalls/strengths, and look to find a build that suits him, and if we can't, have a candid discussion about what other class might fit his wants and needs a bit better.
-Have a discussing about how burst damage works in this game, and how why most spammables are actually fairly balanced, this probably also gets into a convo about how to setup and perform a simple yet proper DPS rotation.
-Have a discussion about balancing your offensive and defensive protentional in PVP. Target ranges for armor, crit resist, damage, penetration, so you can have a build capable have hanging in a fight.

I am happy to reasonably discuss any of the above, but it's hard not to push back with topics like this.

Manslayer49 · January 2023

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

seventy_kg wrote: »

"my pure dps build"
so you want pure dps builds to not get destroyed?
sorry but by your logic there's no pvp game that will suit you
if you can just build into one aspect and win it all that would be pretty boring and braindead and destroys build diversity
not to mention there is a "pure dps build" that is 100% viable in eso and it's called ganking
you're new to pvp and the first reaction you have after losing is to come to forum to cry about getting destroyed by calling eso the worst pvp game, have you tried improving your build? have you asked experienced PvP'ers how they build their characters? i bet you slotted 4 offensive cps thinking you'll do mind blowing damage, honestly, glad you're taught a lesson
improve or get destroyed, you're a proper noob in eso pvp

It's tough, I will say that. I really try not to be negative on these forums, but sometimes, it gets the better of me. OP is clearly new to the game, and that is okay. But you hit the nail on the head. Most of us, myself included, would bend over backwards to help a stranger improve on these forums.

For Better or Worse, ESO is a skill game when it comes to end game content. Theory crafting without game knowledge is really difficult, and admittedly, a lot of that is on ZOS. And when you are new, some builds are just going to be easier to master out of the gate. But there seems to be a theme here where after clearly failing at an attempt, the response is to trash the game, a game the vast majority of us here really really love when it comes to it (despite many of my own complaints), rather than saying, "hey, this is what I am doing, its not working, HELP".

In the last month, OP on these forums has made topics that:

-Requested a class change token
-Asked for increase damage to a spammable under the guise of asking for more burst damage
-Trashed PVP
-Made a rage quite thread

Other than the last one, I would love to help him.
-We could discuss the class he chose, the pitfalls/strengths, and look to find a build that suits him, and if we can't, have a candid discussion about what other class might fit his wants and needs a bit better.
-Have a discussing about how burst damage works in this game, and how why most spammables are actually fairly balanced, this probably also gets into a convo about how to setup and perform a simple yet proper DPS rotation.
-Have a discussion about balancing your offensive and defensive protentional in PVP. Target ranges for armor, crit resist, damage, penetration, so you can have a build capable have hanging in a fight.

I am happy to reasonably discuss any of the above, but it's hard not to push back with topics like this.

I have spent millions of gold on a build that i like and i dont wanna change it just so i can be good at pvp. This isnt a skill issue as a skilled person can be skilled with a wide range of different builds. The main issue is these meta builds are drasticly better and they shouldnt be because it ruins build diversity wich makes it less fun for people that prefer to play a certain way.

If they just added new unique pvp armor and weapon sets that had their own unique stats it would fix alot of the imbalance.

add pvp damage,pvp damage resist and so on and that would go a long way into preserving peoples play styles.

and it would fulfill the spirit of the game wich is play the way you want.

If i want to be a medium armor two hander user i should be able to be competitive without changing anything.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2023

Manslayer49 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

seventy_kg wrote: »

"my pure dps build"
so you want pure dps builds to not get destroyed?
sorry but by your logic there's no pvp game that will suit you
if you can just build into one aspect and win it all that would be pretty boring and braindead and destroys build diversity
not to mention there is a "pure dps build" that is 100% viable in eso and it's called ganking
you're new to pvp and the first reaction you have after losing is to come to forum to cry about getting destroyed by calling eso the worst pvp game, have you tried improving your build? have you asked experienced PvP'ers how they build their characters? i bet you slotted 4 offensive cps thinking you'll do mind blowing damage, honestly, glad you're taught a lesson
improve or get destroyed, you're a proper noob in eso pvp

It's tough, I will say that. I really try not to be negative on these forums, but sometimes, it gets the better of me. OP is clearly new to the game, and that is okay. But you hit the nail on the head. Most of us, myself included, would bend over backwards to help a stranger improve on these forums.

For Better or Worse, ESO is a skill game when it comes to end game content. Theory crafting without game knowledge is really difficult, and admittedly, a lot of that is on ZOS. And when you are new, some builds are just going to be easier to master out of the gate. But there seems to be a theme here where after clearly failing at an attempt, the response is to trash the game, a game the vast majority of us here really really love when it comes to it (despite many of my own complaints), rather than saying, "hey, this is what I am doing, its not working, HELP".

In the last month, OP on these forums has made topics that:

-Requested a class change token
-Asked for increase damage to a spammable under the guise of asking for more burst damage
-Trashed PVP
-Made a rage quite thread

Other than the last one, I would love to help him.
-We could discuss the class he chose, the pitfalls/strengths, and look to find a build that suits him, and if we can't, have a candid discussion about what other class might fit his wants and needs a bit better.
-Have a discussing about how burst damage works in this game, and how why most spammables are actually fairly balanced, this probably also gets into a convo about how to setup and perform a simple yet proper DPS rotation.
-Have a discussion about balancing your offensive and defensive protentional in PVP. Target ranges for armor, crit resist, damage, penetration, so you can have a build capable have hanging in a fight.

I am happy to reasonably discuss any of the above, but it's hard not to push back with topics like this.

I have spent millions of gold on a build that i like and i dont wanna change it just so i can be good at pvp. This isnt a skill issue as a skilled person can be skilled with a wide range of different builds. The main issue is these meta builds are drasticly better and they shouldnt be because it ruins build diversity wich makes it less fun for people that prefer to play a certain way.

If they just added new unique pvp armor and weapon sets that had their own unique stats it would fix alot of the imbalance.

add pvp damage,pvp damage resist and so on and that would go a long way into preserving peoples play styles.

and it would fulfill the spirit of the game wich is play the way you want.

If i want to be a medium armor two hander user i should be able to be competitive without changing anything.

You can absolutely build a medium armor 2Hander to be competitive in PVP, but it wont look like a competitive medium 2 hand build that is effective in PVE.

ZOS has said on more than one occasion that they dont want to balance PVP and PVE separately, but they have included battle spirit to help in that area. They want skills to function roughly the same in both environments, but of course, what is good against an NPC with fixed stats and fixed mechanics is not going to be the same as what is good against a player with a brain and the ability to make choices in their setup.

The primary differences are that PVE enemies do not have crit resist, and they have fixed armor ratings nearly across the board. They also can't crit against you, so in PVE, crit resistance is irrelevant. In PVP, you can stack armor and crit resist through the roof. So a classic PVE DPS build favoring crit damage, is going to be very week in PVP. On the flip side, if you dont build for high armor and crit resist, you are going to get smoked by any competent player. This isnt a shooter with a TTK under 1.0 second, where the person who sees the other guy first wins 95% of the encounters. There is a lot of counter play in ESO PVP.

PVE also favors DPS. Boss fights can take a long time, and it the most efficient way to take them down is a high steady stream of damage (AKA DPS). That wont kill a good PVP player. A good player can absorb a constant stream of DPS, wait until you are spent on resources, and then counter and wreck your day. You need to learn to line up burst damage. The DPS might be relatively low over a long period of time, but if you can get it to spike at just the right time (when your opponent is stunned or low health, or out of stamina to block), then you can secure a kill. You also need to learn to counter your opponent, because they are doing the same thing.

As a DPS, PVE is 95% offense. Fights have fixed mechanics so anything resembling burst can be avoided, and pressure can be healed through. In PVP, its about 75% defense, 25% offense. Pressure needs healing over time, but burst needs to be mitigated in some way (block, roll dodge, line of sight, burst heals) and its not as simple as moving out of the giant red circle.

There is plenty of armor aimed at PVP. How would new armor that you would have to acquire and level be any different than your current complaint about wanting your "millions" of gold build to work?

Millions of gold is vague, but ultimately, not that much in ESO. If you think you are going to be able to build a set of armor that is going to be equally good in all content and last forever, I have some bad news for you. I have spent hundreds of millions worth of mats and resources over the years. Some builds last a few patches, some get nerfed really fast. That is the nature of an MMO, they are always a gear treadmill. If you get 6 months out of a build for a specific activity, you are doing pretty well.

Also, I guarantee there is a skill gap in play. ESO PVP is hard. People are really good at this game. The jump between overland, even vet dungeons in PVE to PVP is chasmic.

In all this time, I still have no idea what class you play or what your build looks like. Instead of complaining, how about you post your build and maybe there are some obvious and simple tweaks that would make it more effective for PVP. Again, would love to help you improve, but that does take some effort on your part.

SechsPistole · January 2023

Yes the PvP is the worst on it on the games market. Basically, the PvP in teso consists only of desync, asynchrony, massive wrong calculation of damage and armor values of the server, lags and sucking out weak content The elder scrolls online still doesn't feel the basics after 9 years. I think my part about the devs, if I wrote my opinion on the devs here I would get banned-

VaranisArano · January 2023

Manslayer49 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

seventy_kg wrote: »

"my pure dps build"
so you want pure dps builds to not get destroyed?
sorry but by your logic there's no pvp game that will suit you
if you can just build into one aspect and win it all that would be pretty boring and braindead and destroys build diversity
not to mention there is a "pure dps build" that is 100% viable in eso and it's called ganking
you're new to pvp and the first reaction you have after losing is to come to forum to cry about getting destroyed by calling eso the worst pvp game, have you tried improving your build? have you asked experienced PvP'ers how they build their characters? i bet you slotted 4 offensive cps thinking you'll do mind blowing damage, honestly, glad you're taught a lesson
improve or get destroyed, you're a proper noob in eso pvp

It's tough, I will say that. I really try not to be negative on these forums, but sometimes, it gets the better of me. OP is clearly new to the game, and that is okay. But you hit the nail on the head. Most of us, myself included, would bend over backwards to help a stranger improve on these forums.

For Better or Worse, ESO is a skill game when it comes to end game content. Theory crafting without game knowledge is really difficult, and admittedly, a lot of that is on ZOS. And when you are new, some builds are just going to be easier to master out of the gate. But there seems to be a theme here where after clearly failing at an attempt, the response is to trash the game, a game the vast majority of us here really really love when it comes to it (despite many of my own complaints), rather than saying, "hey, this is what I am doing, its not working, HELP".

In the last month, OP on these forums has made topics that:

-Requested a class change token
-Asked for increase damage to a spammable under the guise of asking for more burst damage
-Trashed PVP
-Made a rage quite thread

Other than the last one, I would love to help him.
-We could discuss the class he chose, the pitfalls/strengths, and look to find a build that suits him, and if we can't, have a candid discussion about what other class might fit his wants and needs a bit better.
-Have a discussing about how burst damage works in this game, and how why most spammables are actually fairly balanced, this probably also gets into a convo about how to setup and perform a simple yet proper DPS rotation.
-Have a discussion about balancing your offensive and defensive protentional in PVP. Target ranges for armor, crit resist, damage, penetration, so you can have a build capable have hanging in a fight.

I am happy to reasonably discuss any of the above, but it's hard not to push back with topics like this.

I have spent millions of gold on a build that i like and i dont wanna change it just so i can be good at pvp. This isnt a skill issue as a skilled person can be skilled with a wide range of different builds. The main issue is these meta builds are drasticly better and they shouldnt be because it ruins build diversity wich makes it less fun for people that prefer to play a certain way.

If they just added new unique pvp armor and weapon sets that had their own unique stats it would fix alot of the imbalance.

add pvp damage,pvp damage resist and so on and that would go a long way into preserving peoples play styles.

and it would fulfill the spirit of the game wich is play the way you want.

If i want to be a medium armor two hander user I should be able to be competitive without changing anything.

Nobody just rolls from PVE to PVP and becomes competitive without practice, no matter what build they put on. (And if you're like me, you can't even swap from PVP build to another PVP build and do well without hours of practice.)

I actually had a medium armor bow/two hander Stam Warden built around proc sets and burst damage for a while. Hit like a truck. Popped like a balloon if I overextended.

Tactics were so important with that build. Even in the thick of large battles, I needed to pick out weaker targets, set up burst combos, and be ready to retreat the moment I got too much attention. It was a pretty big learning curve coming from my MagDK Healer who's playstyle was slower, steadier, and better able to handle the heat.

Was it competitive? Well, I had a niche where I performed really well and when I got out of that niche I didn't. I had to learn to perform well in my niche and create situations where I performed well and avoid situations where I didn't. From my perspective, that's pretty normal for Cyrodiil gameplay. If I wanted a general "jack of all trades" build, I'd be playing more into the meta builds instead.

So I'd say its still a "skill issue" or (really) more of a "practice issue."

Cyrodiil PVP is remarkably good at supporting a large number of niche builds alongside the meta, but it absolutely will take practice to perform well in your chosen niche, to create situations where you play in your niche more and get caught out of it less, and to learn how to turn bad situations back to your advantage.

If you want to walk in with your PVE build, it can be done. But the niche is going to be small and the learning curve very steep.

Amottica · January 2023

Manslayer49 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

seventy_kg wrote: »

"my pure dps build"
so you want pure dps builds to not get destroyed?
sorry but by your logic there's no pvp game that will suit you
if you can just build into one aspect and win it all that would be pretty boring and braindead and destroys build diversity
not to mention there is a "pure dps build" that is 100% viable in eso and it's called ganking
you're new to pvp and the first reaction you have after losing is to come to forum to cry about getting destroyed by calling eso the worst pvp game, have you tried improving your build? have you asked experienced PvP'ers how they build their characters? i bet you slotted 4 offensive cps thinking you'll do mind blowing damage, honestly, glad you're taught a lesson
improve or get destroyed, you're a proper noob in eso pvp

It's tough, I will say that. I really try not to be negative on these forums, but sometimes, it gets the better of me. OP is clearly new to the game, and that is okay. But you hit the nail on the head. Most of us, myself included, would bend over backwards to help a stranger improve on these forums.

For Better or Worse, ESO is a skill game when it comes to end game content. Theory crafting without game knowledge is really difficult, and admittedly, a lot of that is on ZOS. And when you are new, some builds are just going to be easier to master out of the gate. But there seems to be a theme here where after clearly failing at an attempt, the response is to trash the game, a game the vast majority of us here really really love when it comes to it (despite many of my own complaints), rather than saying, "hey, this is what I am doing, its not working, HELP".

In the last month, OP on these forums has made topics that:

-Requested a class change token
-Asked for increase damage to a spammable under the guise of asking for more burst damage
-Trashed PVP
-Made a rage quite thread

Other than the last one, I would love to help him.
-We could discuss the class he chose, the pitfalls/strengths, and look to find a build that suits him, and if we can't, have a candid discussion about what other class might fit his wants and needs a bit better.
-Have a discussing about how burst damage works in this game, and how why most spammables are actually fairly balanced, this probably also gets into a convo about how to setup and perform a simple yet proper DPS rotation.
-Have a discussion about balancing your offensive and defensive protentional in PVP. Target ranges for armor, crit resist, damage, penetration, so you can have a build capable have hanging in a fight.

I am happy to reasonably discuss any of the above, but it's hard not to push back with topics like this.

I have spent millions of gold on a build that i like and i dont wanna change it just so i can be good at pvp.

Changes are made to the game multiple times a year that push us to update our builds. This is a given in ESO.

Manslayer49 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

seventy_kg wrote: »

"my pure dps build"
so you want pure dps builds to not get destroyed?
sorry but by your logic there's no pvp game that will suit you
if you can just build into one aspect and win it all that would be pretty boring and braindead and destroys build diversity
not to mention there is a "pure dps build" that is 100% viable in eso and it's called ganking
you're new to pvp and the first reaction you have after losing is to come to forum to cry about getting destroyed by calling eso the worst pvp game, have you tried improving your build? have you asked experienced PvP'ers how they build their characters? i bet you slotted 4 offensive cps thinking you'll do mind blowing damage, honestly, glad you're taught a lesson
improve or get destroyed, you're a proper noob in eso pvp

It's tough, I will say that. I really try not to be negative on these forums, but sometimes, it gets the better of me. OP is clearly new to the game, and that is okay. But you hit the nail on the head. Most of us, myself included, would bend over backwards to help a stranger improve on these forums.

For Better or Worse, ESO is a skill game when it comes to end game content. Theory crafting without game knowledge is really difficult, and admittedly, a lot of that is on ZOS. And when you are new, some builds are just going to be easier to master out of the gate. But there seems to be a theme here where after clearly failing at an attempt, the response is to trash the game, a game the vast majority of us here really really love when it comes to it (despite many of my own complaints), rather than saying, "hey, this is what I am doing, its not working, HELP".

In the last month, OP on these forums has made topics that:

-Requested a class change token
-Asked for increase damage to a spammable under the guise of asking for more burst damage
-Trashed PVP
-Made a rage quite thread

Other than the last one, I would love to help him.
-We could discuss the class he chose, the pitfalls/strengths, and look to find a build that suits him, and if we can't, have a candid discussion about what other class might fit his wants and needs a bit better.
-Have a discussing about how burst damage works in this game, and how why most spammables are actually fairly balanced, this probably also gets into a convo about how to setup and perform a simple yet proper DPS rotation.
-Have a discussion about balancing your offensive and defensive protentional in PVP. Target ranges for armor, crit resist, damage, penetration, so you can have a build capable have hanging in a fight.

I am happy to reasonably discuss any of the above, but it's hard not to push back with topics like this.

This isnt a skill issue as a skilled person can be skilled with a wide range of different builds.

In any action PvP setting a players skill is always an issue. It is often the difference between who is left standing and who is looking up from the flat of their back.

Manslayer49 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

seventy_kg wrote: »

"my pure dps build"
so you want pure dps builds to not get destroyed?
sorry but by your logic there's no pvp game that will suit you
if you can just build into one aspect and win it all that would be pretty boring and braindead and destroys build diversity
not to mention there is a "pure dps build" that is 100% viable in eso and it's called ganking
you're new to pvp and the first reaction you have after losing is to come to forum to cry about getting destroyed by calling eso the worst pvp game, have you tried improving your build? have you asked experienced PvP'ers how they build their characters? i bet you slotted 4 offensive cps thinking you'll do mind blowing damage, honestly, glad you're taught a lesson
improve or get destroyed, you're a proper noob in eso pvp

It's tough, I will say that. I really try not to be negative on these forums, but sometimes, it gets the better of me. OP is clearly new to the game, and that is okay. But you hit the nail on the head. Most of us, myself included, would bend over backwards to help a stranger improve on these forums.

For Better or Worse, ESO is a skill game when it comes to end game content. Theory crafting without game knowledge is really difficult, and admittedly, a lot of that is on ZOS. And when you are new, some builds are just going to be easier to master out of the gate. But there seems to be a theme here where after clearly failing at an attempt, the response is to trash the game, a game the vast majority of us here really really love when it comes to it (despite many of my own complaints), rather than saying, "hey, this is what I am doing, its not working, HELP".

In the last month, OP on these forums has made topics that:

-Requested a class change token
-Asked for increase damage to a spammable under the guise of asking for more burst damage
-Trashed PVP
-Made a rage quite thread

Other than the last one, I would love to help him.
-We could discuss the class he chose, the pitfalls/strengths, and look to find a build that suits him, and if we can't, have a candid discussion about what other class might fit his wants and needs a bit better.
-Have a discussing about how burst damage works in this game, and how why most spammables are actually fairly balanced, this probably also gets into a convo about how to setup and perform a simple yet proper DPS rotation.
-Have a discussion about balancing your offensive and defensive protentional in PVP. Target ranges for armor, crit resist, damage, penetration, so you can have a build capable have hanging in a fight.

I am happy to reasonably discuss any of the above, but it's hard not to push back with topics like this.

If they just added new unique pvp armor and weapon sets that had their own unique stats it would fix alot of the imbalance.

Special PvP gear often modifies the damage we do and receive (and healing). This is handled via battle sprit so it is already done in a different manner.

Manslayer49 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

seventy_kg wrote: »

"my pure dps build"
so you want pure dps builds to not get destroyed?
sorry but by your logic there's no pvp game that will suit you
if you can just build into one aspect and win it all that would be pretty boring and braindead and destroys build diversity
not to mention there is a "pure dps build" that is 100% viable in eso and it's called ganking
you're new to pvp and the first reaction you have after losing is to come to forum to cry about getting destroyed by calling eso the worst pvp game, have you tried improving your build? have you asked experienced PvP'ers how they build their characters? i bet you slotted 4 offensive cps thinking you'll do mind blowing damage, honestly, glad you're taught a lesson
improve or get destroyed, you're a proper noob in eso pvp

It's tough, I will say that. I really try not to be negative on these forums, but sometimes, it gets the better of me. OP is clearly new to the game, and that is okay. But you hit the nail on the head. Most of us, myself included, would bend over backwards to help a stranger improve on these forums.

For Better or Worse, ESO is a skill game when it comes to end game content. Theory crafting without game knowledge is really difficult, and admittedly, a lot of that is on ZOS. And when you are new, some builds are just going to be easier to master out of the gate. But there seems to be a theme here where after clearly failing at an attempt, the response is to trash the game, a game the vast majority of us here really really love when it comes to it (despite many of my own complaints), rather than saying, "hey, this is what I am doing, its not working, HELP".

In the last month, OP on these forums has made topics that:

-Requested a class change token
-Asked for increase damage to a spammable under the guise of asking for more burst damage
-Trashed PVP
-Made a rage quite thread

Other than the last one, I would love to help him.
-We could discuss the class he chose, the pitfalls/strengths, and look to find a build that suits him, and if we can't, have a candid discussion about what other class might fit his wants and needs a bit better.
-Have a discussing about how burst damage works in this game, and how why most spammables are actually fairly balanced, this probably also gets into a convo about how to setup and perform a simple yet proper DPS rotation.
-Have a discussion about balancing your offensive and defensive protentional in PVP. Target ranges for armor, crit resist, damage, penetration, so you can have a build capable have hanging in a fight.

I am happy to reasonably discuss any of the above, but it's hard not to push back with topics like this.

and it would fulfill the spirit of the game wich is play the way you want.

If i want to be a medium armor two hander user i should be able to be competitive without changing anything.

Play as we want is why there is a large variability in builds. Also, playing as you want does not mean each build will be viable, let alone viable for every play style. In PvE, one can get away with playing with less effective builds people find fun. In PvP, a more optimal build an adequate skill level are necessary for survival.

Manslayer49 · January 2023

VaranisArano wrote: »

Manslayer49 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

seventy_kg wrote: »

"my pure dps build"
so you want pure dps builds to not get destroyed?
sorry but by your logic there's no pvp game that will suit you
if you can just build into one aspect and win it all that would be pretty boring and braindead and destroys build diversity
not to mention there is a "pure dps build" that is 100% viable in eso and it's called ganking
you're new to pvp and the first reaction you have after losing is to come to forum to cry about getting destroyed by calling eso the worst pvp game, have you tried improving your build? have you asked experienced PvP'ers how they build their characters? i bet you slotted 4 offensive cps thinking you'll do mind blowing damage, honestly, glad you're taught a lesson
improve or get destroyed, you're a proper noob in eso pvp

It's tough, I will say that. I really try not to be negative on these forums, but sometimes, it gets the better of me. OP is clearly new to the game, and that is okay. But you hit the nail on the head. Most of us, myself included, would bend over backwards to help a stranger improve on these forums.

For Better or Worse, ESO is a skill game when it comes to end game content. Theory crafting without game knowledge is really difficult, and admittedly, a lot of that is on ZOS. And when you are new, some builds are just going to be easier to master out of the gate. But there seems to be a theme here where after clearly failing at an attempt, the response is to trash the game, a game the vast majority of us here really really love when it comes to it (despite many of my own complaints), rather than saying, "hey, this is what I am doing, its not working, HELP".

In the last month, OP on these forums has made topics that:

-Requested a class change token
-Asked for increase damage to a spammable under the guise of asking for more burst damage
-Trashed PVP
-Made a rage quite thread

Other than the last one, I would love to help him.
-We could discuss the class he chose, the pitfalls/strengths, and look to find a build that suits him, and if we can't, have a candid discussion about what other class might fit his wants and needs a bit better.
-Have a discussing about how burst damage works in this game, and how why most spammables are actually fairly balanced, this probably also gets into a convo about how to setup and perform a simple yet proper DPS rotation.
-Have a discussion about balancing your offensive and defensive protentional in PVP. Target ranges for armor, crit resist, damage, penetration, so you can have a build capable have hanging in a fight.

I am happy to reasonably discuss any of the above, but it's hard not to push back with topics like this.

I have spent millions of gold on a build that i like and i dont wanna change it just so i can be good at pvp. This isnt a skill issue as a skilled person can be skilled with a wide range of different builds. The main issue is these meta builds are drasticly better and they shouldnt be because it ruins build diversity wich makes it less fun for people that prefer to play a certain way.

If they just added new unique pvp armor and weapon sets that had their own unique stats it would fix alot of the imbalance.

add pvp damage,pvp damage resist and so on and that would go a long way into preserving peoples play styles.

and it would fulfill the spirit of the game wich is play the way you want.

If i want to be a medium armor two hander user I should be able to be competitive without changing anything.

Nobody just rolls from PVE to PVP and becomes competitive without practice, no matter what build they put on. (And if you're like me, you can't even swap from PVP build to another PVP build and do well without hours of practice.)

I actually had a medium armor bow/two hander Stam Warden built around proc sets and burst damage for a while. Hit like a truck. Popped like a balloon if I overextended.

Tactics were so important with that build. Even in the thick of large battles, I needed to pick out weaker targets, set up burst combos, and be ready to retreat the moment I got too much attention. It was a pretty big learning curve coming from my MagDK Healer who's playstyle was slower, steadier, and better able to handle the heat.

Was it competitive? Well, I had a niche where I performed really well and when I got out of that niche I didn't. I had to learn to perform well in my niche and create situations where I performed well and avoid situations where I didn't. From my perspective, that's pretty normal for Cyrodiil gameplay. If I wanted a general "jack of all trades" build, I'd be playing more into the meta builds instead.

So I'd say its still a "skill issue" or (really) more of a "practice issue."

Cyrodiil PVP is remarkably good at supporting a large number of niche builds alongside the meta, but it absolutely will take practice to perform well in your chosen niche, to create situations where you play in your niche more and get caught out of it less, and to learn how to turn bad situations back to your advantage.

If you want to walk in with your PVE build, it can be done. But the niche is going to be small and the learning curve very steep.

Its not a skill issue bub. im built for raw weapon damage and no crit and my attacks barely hurt people in pvp. I have 8.5k weapon damage and my attacks just tickle people.

i heard weapon damage was good in pvp but apparently not.

Manslayer49 · January 2023

SechsPistole wrote: »

Yes the PvP is the worst on it on the games market. Basically, the PvP in teso consists only of desync, asynchrony, massive wrong calculation of damage and armor values of the server, lags and sucking out weak content The elder scrolls online still doesn't feel the basics after 9 years. I think my part about the devs, if I wrote my opinion on the devs here I would get banned-

im willing to bet this is the problem that the server isnt calculating my damage properly. with 8.5k weapon damage my attacks should hit like a truck.

UnabashedlyHonest · February 2023

Manslayer49 wrote: »

SechsPistole wrote: »

Yes the PvP is the worst on it on the games market. Basically, the PvP in teso consists only of desync, asynchrony, massive wrong calculation of damage and armor values of the server, lags and sucking out weak content The elder scrolls online still doesn't feel the basics after 9 years. I think my part about the devs, if I wrote my opinion on the devs here I would get banned-

im willing to bet this is the problem that the server isnt calculating my damage properly. with 8.5k weapon damage my attacks should hit like a truck.

8.5k weapon damage an no penetration also doesn't work well. Have to balance both. Half that weapon damage and 15k penetration will hit a lot harder.

Manslayer49 · February 2023

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Manslayer49 wrote: »

SechsPistole wrote: »

Yes the PvP is the worst on it on the games market. Basically, the PvP in teso consists only of desync, asynchrony, massive wrong calculation of damage and armor values of the server, lags and sucking out weak content The elder scrolls online still doesn't feel the basics after 9 years. I think my part about the devs, if I wrote my opinion on the devs here I would get banned-

im willing to bet this is the problem that the server isnt calculating my damage properly. with 8.5k weapon damage my attacks should hit like a truck.

8.5k weapon damage an no penetration also doesn't work well. Have to balance both. Half that weapon damage and 15k penetration will hit a lot harder.

no point if you are squishy. i just went with a tanky build. while i dont hit very hard i can now fight multiple people at once.

full dps builds in pvp simply do not work. i now have a pve build and a pvp build.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · February 2023

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Manslayer49 wrote: »

SechsPistole wrote: »

Yes the PvP is the worst on it on the games market. Basically, the PvP in teso consists only of desync, asynchrony, massive wrong calculation of damage and armor values of the server, lags and sucking out weak content The elder scrolls online still doesn't feel the basics after 9 years. I think my part about the devs, if I wrote my opinion on the devs here I would get banned-

im willing to bet this is the problem that the server isnt calculating my damage properly. with 8.5k weapon damage my attacks should hit like a truck.

8.5k weapon damage an no penetration also doesn't work well. Have to balance both. Half that weapon damage and 15k penetration will hit a lot harder.

Mathematically, this is incorrect. 15k penetration is only 22.7% damage while doubling 4250 weapon damage to 8500 is 69.05% more damage, assuming 20k MaxStat. Some examples:

Assassin's Will
0.204534 MaxStat + 2.14761 MaxPower
((20000 * 0.204534) + (8500 * 2.14761)) / ((20000 * 0.204534) + (4250 * 2.14761)) = 69.0522

Elemental Weapon
0.09297 MaxStat + 0.976185 MaxPower
((20000 * 0.09297) + (8500 * 0.976185)) / ((20000 * 0.09297) + (4250 * 0.976185)) = 69.0522

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · February 2023

Manslayer49 wrote: »

full dps builds in pvp simply do not work. i now have a pve build and a pvp build.

Nothing wrong with playing a tanky PvP build as long as you're having fun.