Class Change Token
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Skcarkden✭✭✭✭My reply taken from another thread about class change:
I'm against an easy class change... as this would have players simply follow the flavor-of-the-month builds.
'easy class change' lol... no, not easy. it'll be anything but easy when it finally happens due to all the years of battling this one argument that has no merit.
Flavour of the month builds already happen. but thanks for blaming a feature that doesn't exist (yet, hopefully) a class change won't create an 'issue' that already happens.
One thing that is easy however is a solution to the very problem you imagined up. Class change lockdown timers. Changed clasas? okay, have to wait another 3 or 6 months to use another- for the whole account.
Problem solved, if only people would stop trying to tell us 'no' because they don't want to use it.1 -
LightYagami✭✭✭✭✭Class change token with limitations will be nice.
I know ZOS wants players to grind repeatedly to keep a certain level of player counts.
It take a long time for hardcore players to grind new PvP Overlord, PvE no death trial titles, skyshards, teleport locations, skill lines, etc.
Those who say grinding to level 50 can be done is 2 days, how many days can you grind a new "star rank" PvP toon?
I have a few ALTs over CP1000, but not all of them have multiple achievements unlocked like my main.
If ZOS wants to make money by selling skill lines skyshards, etc., they can simply sell class change tokens at higher price.
If they want to keep player population, they can limit every account ONE TOKEN ONLY EVERY YEAR, or even every two years, and set the tokens cannot be traded to other players. People won't keep "spamming" tokens if they cost a lot and can be used once per year or once every two years only.
People want to create alts can still enjoy their alts. No conflict. People hate repeated grindings can stay in the game by paying money to ZOS. Problems solved.No improvement on Cyrodill servers -> no ESO plus renewal.0 -
Arnoldthehawk✭✭✭Arnoldthehawk wrote: »
again just tie achievements to account and not only character - if your concern is about not sharing progress across characters
That is why I included it in the post as alternatives. I love how achievements in Guild Wars 2 works. You can literally start from zero, but you will have every achievement you got until now. There are multi-character achievements but not the grindy type, rather the "experience it other way" type, like a different story choice for example. Would also solve a lot of problem but I have a gut feeling that that would be technically challenging compared to give us an option to essentially change a logo and 3 skill lines, since Classes in this game has literally no impact on your character in any other way. They are not making your story missions different, won't get different rewards, won't have to make class specific choices along your progress, nothing. A logo and 3 skill lines, that is all.2 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭El_Borracho wrote: »I'm ambivalent on class change tokens. Yes, it would be convenient. But here's the counterpoint: the game is cyclical. What might be the top DPS class today (because that's all that really matters when it comes to class changes) will not be the top DPS class 6-12 months from now.
The game gives you 9 free character slots. Use them. I had a dark elf magblade that I used all the time several years ago when it was the beast of PVE and PVP. Then it slid down the charts in both so I started to use characters of other classes like the stamblade, stam necro, mag DK, and stamplar, all when each were near or at the peak of performance. Then, out of the blue, several sets get a rework, the magblade gets a boost, and its back.
Be patient. It doesn't take that long to level up a new character. And its nice having multiple characters to choose from.
To add a counter point to this. I have 18 Characters. They have all the reasearches, they have their mounts maxed. Now i would like to change the class on one of them because i enjoy playing a certain class more. Deleting one character and getting it up to this level takes me 3-6 Months. So there is no "it doesnt take long" involved here.
When Necromancer came out i changed my main from a Warden to a Necro and i played my Necro for a very long time until it was close to the state of my Necro. The reason ppl want class change is not because it takes some days to level. Its because it takes Months to get them to a certail level.3 -
Viewsfrom6ix✭✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »I'm ambivalent on class change tokens. Yes, it would be convenient. But here's the counterpoint: the game is cyclical. What might be the top DPS class today (because that's all that really matters when it comes to class changes) will not be the top DPS class 6-12 months from now.
The game gives you 9 free character slots. Use them. I had a dark elf magblade that I used all the time several years ago when it was the beast of PVE and PVP. Then it slid down the charts in both so I started to use characters of other classes like the stamblade, stam necro, mag DK, and stamplar, all when each were near or at the peak of performance. Then, out of the blue, several sets get a rework, the magblade gets a boost, and its back.
Be patient. It doesn't take that long to level up a new character. And its nice having multiple characters to choose from.
To add a counter point to this. I have 18 Characters. They have all the reasearches, they have their mounts maxed. Now i would like to change the class on one of them because i enjoy playing a certain class more. Deleting one character and getting it up to this level takes me 3-6 Months. So there is no "it doesnt take long" involved here.
When Necromancer came out i changed my main from a Warden to a Necro and i played my Necro for a very long time until it was close to the state of my Necro. The reason ppl want class change is not because it takes some days to level. Its because it takes Months to get them to a certail level.
Totally agree. Not to mention the amount of grinding you need to do to max out psijic, mages, undaunted skill line and all the skyshards you need to hunt again.2 -
miawmiaw1337✭✭✭I would love to have a class change token. I only play one character and im not interested in creating another. Being able to change class would add a lot of hours of fun gameplay for me. Now I only login for a few minutes to get my tickets from event and then i logout.1
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LightYagami✭✭✭✭✭El_Borracho wrote: »I'm ambivalent on class change tokens. Yes, it would be convenient. But here's the counterpoint: the game is cyclical. What might be the top DPS class today (because that's all that really matters when it comes to class changes) will not be the top DPS class 6-12 months from now.
The game gives you 9 free character slots. Use them. I had a dark elf magblade that I used all the time several years ago when it was the beast of PVE and PVP. Then it slid down the charts in both so I started to use characters of other classes like the stamblade, stam necro, mag DK, and stamplar, all when each were near or at the peak of performance. Then, out of the blue, several sets get a rework, the magblade gets a boost, and its back.
Be patient. It doesn't take that long to level up a new character. And its nice having multiple characters to choose from.
To add a counter point to this. I have 18 Characters. They have all the reasearches, they have their mounts maxed. Now i would like to change the class on one of them because i enjoy playing a certain class more. Deleting one character and getting it up to this level takes me 3-6 Months. So there is no "it doesnt take long" involved here.
When Necromancer came out i changed my main from a Warden to a Necro and i played my Necro for a very long time until it was close to the state of my Necro. The reason ppl want class change is not because it takes some days to level. Its because it takes Months to get them to a certail level.
Some grinding take long time to do. Especially if you want to reach a high rank at PvP. Reaching a star rank (General or above in PvP).No improvement on Cyrodill servers -> no ESO plus renewal.0 -
ZibzuSoul ShrivenI got so bored of my templar, i liked him at first but... man... i relly got bored, i bearly log in for like half an hour before i get sick of it.... The thing is i try to made another class, a DK, and i have so much fun, bu then again i need to collect again over 400 skyshards and 90 days for a full horse, and several months to relearn all the traits.... profesions, guilds, etc... this make me playing or trying to play on a new character almost imposible.... And i see, everybody bring up class ballance, dudes, this is not World of Warcraft, people dont care about this stuff, not as many anyway, we just want to have fun, feel fresh again, given a chance ....I do hope they will introduce a class change token, i relly do....Anyway thats my 2 cents, not that will matter anyway.1
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Arnoldthehawk✭✭✭Anyway thats my 2 cents, not that will matter anyway.
Of course it matters!
ZoS needs to see that people want this option to feel the reason to introduce it. Many new posts appeared in the past about the topic, all asking for Class Change Token. Don't give up, be vocal about it, that is the only way to make it happen.
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Arnoldthehawk✭✭✭It seems more of an argument for having account-wide acheivements.
If you read the post, I listed is as an alternative, but I think it really comes down to the technical/financial part. Is it worth to make achievement system account wide, probably introduce a way of tracking which character did what (if they follow the WoW route, which I personally very much dislike) or make it centralized account wide totally, like in GW2 (which I personally very much like) or just simply put in a token that cost, say 5000 crowns, since it is a big change and gives players like me, who don't like to play with alt characters a way to continue the game on my main.2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LightYagami wrote: »Class change token with limitations will be nice.
I know ZOS wants players to grind repeatedly to keep a certain level of player counts.
It take a long time for hardcore players to grind new PvP Overlord, PvE no death trial titles, skyshards, teleport locations, skill lines, etc.
Those who say grinding to level 50 can be done is 2 days, how many days can you grind a new "star rank" PvP toon?
I have a few ALTs over CP1000, but not all of them have multiple achievements unlocked like my main.
If ZOS wants to make money by selling skill lines skyshards, etc., they can simply sell class change tokens at higher price.
If they want to keep player population, they can limit every account ONE TOKEN ONLY EVERY YEAR, or even every two years, and set the tokens cannot be traded to other players. People won't keep "spamming" tokens if they cost a lot and can be used once per year or once every two years only.
People want to create alts can still enjoy their alts. No conflict. People hate repeated grindings can stay in the game by paying money to ZOS. Problems solved.
If the comparatively few players who want class change tokens could only use one per year then that is (a) not going to be viable for the developers for whom it would entail a lot of work sorting out quests and skills etc and (b) not going to be acceptable to those players once another change comes along that impacts their character(s) or they want to change more than one character in the first place.1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Arnoldthehawk wrote: »
again just tie achievements to account and not only character - if your concern is about not sharing progress across characters
And I'll say give them a class change token and leave achievements as they are (with the possible addition of an account-wide overview that doesn't touch individual characters' achievement progress)The Moot Councillor2 -
Parasaurolophus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I just want to tell you why I want class change tokens. I have 9 characters and I don't want to have any more. I don't like having a whole army of twinks. However, I usually play with two or three characters for a long time. And I would like to be able to change the class for irrelevant characters who already have the maximum level, all skill lines, and of course the level of the mount.PC/EU1 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People have made clear so many times why things like "Account Wide Achievements" or " just grind out an alt, brah" isn't the solution, but you still get a bunch of people who refuse to engage it and keep spamming the same irrelevant responses. Also, its perplexing why someone who isn't interested enough to read the thread would want to take the time to contribute meaningless dispersions rather than just scrolling on. I mean, it probably shouldn't be all that perplexing, some people just want to crap on others and feel good doing it.
You know what? If ZOS wants to monetise something that they put money into developing- something that from the dev's own admission would not be simple to implement, I'm 100% on board with that. Convenience is nice. I would LOVE the option to CHOOSE to pay money or NOT pay money as per my own values or means.
THE META IS ALREADY CONSTANTLY CHANGING, and people are already spamming the "greedy zos" rhetoric. We are already living this reality. Their refusal or acceptance of a class change system would change absolutely nothing.
And if the "top 1%" or whatever it is wants to pay money to gain the 3-5% extra damage they can get for doing so, there is literally no way that I could possibly care any less. Let them! The argument is completely to the reality that THIS CRAP IS GOING ON UNDER YOUR VERY NOSES EVERY SINGLE DAY and it probably does not impact you in the slightest. I will keep playing my off-meta character that has achieved most of the hardest achievements in the game, on my own terms, but be free to undo the terrible choice I made 7 YEARS ago for a character I will never ever delete, but until/unless class token happens is useless to me.
ZOS needs to decide whether to put work into class change, at the expense of other potential systems and conveniences. They have to decide whether its worth the technical effort. They have to decide when (if ever) it would be a good time to do it. All of these reasons make sense to me. What DOESN'T stand up to sense are things like "well, some aspect of your character needs to be permanent!" when the whole build system was designed to be absolutely forgiving and reversible because they never wanted you to make a choice you would feel absolutely locked into; when it makes absolutely no sense that of all the aspects of your character, the most logically mutable one would be the one we're putting our foot down, against our philosophy.
"Just grind another character, brah!" was not the reason they allowed you to remorph skills, completely redo your attributes, change your characters gender, even its race. They obviously didn't subscribe to that notion when they introduced race and alliance change tokens. They CLEARLY RECOGNISED that people don't always WANT to regrind a whole new character. It still stands, and we still want this.3 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Also, shucks. This thread is totally gonna be shut down because necromancy is not permissible in the empire, and there are other recent threads just like it. Ah well.0 -
Shagreth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Coming back to ESO after all this time I honestly expected this to be a thing already. My character is known across Tamriel, hundreds upon hundreds of hours of progression, skill points, crafting, YOU NAME IT! I want to try Sorcerer & Necromancer, but being someone with super limited time -- I just can't. There is no good reason for this NOT to be a thing, it really boggles my mind.4 -
drsalvation✭✭✭✭✭I would love nothing more than to switch class, I like templar but I always wanted to try dragonknight, and I don't want to make alts to do all research, horse training, skyshards, and quests all over again.
I just think they're trying to push character and alt variants to force us into making alts, buying shortcuts, and buy the character slots.
I'd love a class change token4 -
Hurbster✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Goodness me, yes. While I enjoyed my OG character I hardly play him now as I just find Templar just so boring. I have a Warden that I absolutely love and I just want to change my Templar to a Warden as well, with all his years of progress and motif learning.
Or a knowledge transfer would do, don't really want to have to do Assassins/Thieves Guild all over again if I don't have to. And I definitely would want all the motif knowledge transferred over as well.So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.2 -
Shagreth✭✭✭✭✭
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What really troubles me is why they haven't done it yet. Technical difficulties, against the idea for X or Y reason, I mean, have they ever communicated this with the community? This is not something that will break the game or the community in ANY way, on the contrary -- I'm sure it will bring many people back and increase replayability. Anyone that wants to go through (and is against the token) all that is required to have a complete and nicely built character must have some kind of masochistic tendencies.drsalvation wrote: »I would love nothing more than to switch class, I like templar but I always wanted to try dragonknight, and I don't want to make alts to do all research, horse training, skyshards, and quests all over again.
I just think they're trying to push character and alt variants to force us into making alts, buying shortcuts, and buy the character slots.
I'd love a class change token1 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
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What really troubles me is why they haven't done it yet. Technical difficulties, against the idea for X or Y reason, I mean, have they ever communicated this with the community? This is not something that will break the game or the community in ANY way, on the contrary -- I'm sure it will bring many people back and increase replayability. Anyone that wants to go through (and is against the token) all that is required to have a complete and nicely built character must have some kind of masochistic tendencies.drsalvation wrote: »I would love nothing more than to switch class, I like templar but I always wanted to try dragonknight, and I don't want to make alts to do all research, horse training, skyshards, and quests all over again.
I just think they're trying to push character and alt variants to force us into making alts, buying shortcuts, and buy the character slots.
I'd love a class change token
It's no longer remotely necessary for those who used to make a case for it. You can already level an alt to 50 in 3 hours, with full CPs from level 1, skill points and lines in the crown store, and next week it will have account-wide achievements from level 1 too.
There are perfectly good reasons to oppose it, not least that it would lead to FOTM buiilds and players being kicked from groups for not spending the crowns to follow them, plus ZOS feeding the demand for tokens by constantly changing the class balance. Now, however, there is no incentive for ZOS to devote the resources necessary to introduce class change tokens because most of those who wanted them will get pretty much the same thing by the time next week's base game changes go live.1 -
Shagreth✭✭✭✭✭
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So you're telling me I can have all the guild & world skill lines etc. unlocked from the beginning with the new patch? If not, then the token is still needed, and that's just one of the reasons.There are perfectly good reasons to oppose it, not least that it would lead to FOTM buiilds and players being kicked from groups for not spending the crowns to follow them, plus ZOS feeding the demand for tokens by constantly changing the class balance. Now, however, there is no incentive for ZOS to devote the resources necessary to introduce class change tokens because most of those who wanted them will get pretty much the same thing by the time next week's base game changes go live.
It's easily solvable, make it extremely expensive AND limit it to once per some months. That shouldn't upset the balance too much. Also, as for people being new to a noobs to a class, it's hardly a problem. Vets? Non issue. Trials? Well, they aren't shy, I have been kicked for WAY less. Eventually people will get up to speed on how to play the class. I will die on this hill, the token will do more good than bad.
Edited by Shagreth on March 7, 2022 9:12PM2 -
Kwik1✭✭✭✭I vote no on class change tokens, but for a totally selfish reason.
I have no actual decent reasons to say no to class change whether it is from a purchased token or just an in game option, but I do have to admit that the second this becomes available I will quit.
I do not enjoy games where 1 toon can swap at will and change to a totally different class simply because I don't feel an RPG was meant to be that way. I personally enjoy a game knowing that I will need to make multiple characters to be able to play different roles with different abilities. I won't play Final Fantasy because of the no class thing, but I know tons of people love it and the game won't miss me and I don't expect it to change.
ESO has built the game on different classes and while I don't remember them ever saying you couldn't class change, it was certainly insinuated many times early in the games life. I find it a bit unfair to people that put the time into multiple toons if this is suddenly implemented.
So, if ESO does implement this, they would lose me as a player, but honestly, losing me means nothing to the bottom line, and maybe it would attract a whole slew of new players who do like the idea of this. I don't know, but I would miss ESO if they suddenly implemented something they told us years ago would never be an option.
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drsalvation✭✭✭✭✭
What really troubles me is why they haven't done it yet. Technical difficulties, against the idea for X or Y reason, I mean, have they ever communicated this with the community? This is not something that will break the game or the community in ANY way, on the contrary -- I'm sure it will bring many people back and increase replayability. Anyone that wants to go through (and is against the token) all that is required to have a complete and nicely built character must have some kind of masochistic tendencies.drsalvation wrote: »I would love nothing more than to switch class, I like templar but I always wanted to try dragonknight, and I don't want to make alts to do all research, horse training, skyshards, and quests all over again.
I just think they're trying to push character and alt variants to force us into making alts, buying shortcuts, and buy the character slots.
I'd love a class change token
It's no longer remotely necessary for those who used to make a case for it. You can already level an alt to 50 in 3 hours, with full CPs from level 1, skill points and lines in the crown store, and next week it will have account-wide achievements from level 1 too.
There are perfectly good reasons to oppose it, not least that it would lead to FOTM buiilds and players being kicked from groups for not spending the crowns to follow them, plus ZOS feeding the demand for tokens by constantly changing the class balance. Now, however, there is no incentive for ZOS to devote the resources necessary to introduce class change tokens because most of those who wanted them will get pretty much the same thing by the time next week's base game changes go live.
Then tell me how can I complete my research in 3 hours, or how can I max my horse in 3 hours (far as I know it takes half a year).
And for the last part, "getting the same thing by the time next week's base game changes go live"
Does that mean templars can have the same visual effects and ultimates that dragonknights have?1 -
drsalvation✭✭✭✭✭I vote no on class change tokens, but for a totally selfish reason.
I have no actual decent reasons to say no to class change whether it is from a purchased token or just an in game option, but I do have to admit that the second this becomes available I will quit.
I do not enjoy games where 1 toon can swap at will and change to a totally different class simply because I don't feel an RPG was meant to be that way. I personally enjoy a game knowing that I will need to make multiple characters to be able to play different roles with different abilities. I won't play Final Fantasy because of the no class thing, but I know tons of people love it and the game won't miss me and I don't expect it to change.
ESO has built the game on different classes and while I don't remember them ever saying you couldn't class change, it was certainly insinuated many times early in the games life. I find it a bit unfair to people that put the time into multiple toons if this is suddenly implemented.
So, if ESO does implement this, they would lose me as a player, but honestly, losing me means nothing to the bottom line, and maybe it would attract a whole slew of new players who do like the idea of this. I don't know, but I would miss ESO if they suddenly implemented something they told us years ago would never be an option.
This is the problem, people don't want to grind research and horse and skyshards all over again just to try out a new class, people don't want to replay all quests all over again, it's a live service, six years of building my character only to switch and start from 0 all over again just because I wanted to try a new class isn't something that I'm looking forward to.
And to call it out, since when is ESO an RPG game?
TES games were, but ESO? There's no role playing in this game at all, there's just character building.
Of course you'd be sad about making different characters and wasting all that time, but we're on the opposite end, wasted so much time on one class and the idea of doing what I did over 6 years just to try out a new class doesn't seem fair either.
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are enough new threads on this with the recent announcement without having to necro your old thread on it.Edited by Tandor on January 28, 2023 9:47PM1
This discussion has been closed.