Give Uppercut's Knockback back

Artheiron · January 2023

As the title suggests, if people can't build reflexes to press both mouse buttons in pvp, please at least bring back knockback for pve. This was (still is) an iconic skill, one of the things that makes ESO a fun game. It's super annoying when my companion can do it, all the NPC's can do it but I can't.
In video games NPC shouldn't have more fun than the player.

Here's another topic about this discussion, posting the link so you can see the nice videos posted there.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/541949/add-knockback-to-uppercut-morph#latest

Revert it, please.

endgamesmug · January 2023

I remember when it was like that, it was super fun and effective!

The_Titan_Tim · January 2023

When your spammable provides CC immunity, it’s a massive problem.

Leave Uppercut alone.

Artheiron · January 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

When your spammable provides CC immunity, it’s a massive problem.

Leave Uppercut alone.

In this game spitting on a mob's face gives them CC immunity. Besides, most of the above trash mobs-bosses cannot be CC'd anyway. Still, that uppercut change was meaningless.

PVP however, spent thousands of hours in cyrodiil, I don't remember an efficient duellist or pvx'er primarily utilizing uppercut. It never was meta for the raids-zergs. It was meta for trolls who hunted down and ganged the most inexperienced players. Stealth attacks used to be a problem to those who roamed with glass cannon light armour setups but the CC it provided never was. Long story short, that's not fair.

Luede · January 2023

Artheiron wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

When your spammable provides CC immunity, it’s a massive problem.

Leave Uppercut alone.

In this game spitting on a mob's face gives them CC immunity. Besides, most of the above trash mobs-bosses cannot be CC'd anyway. Still, that uppercut change was meaningless.

PVP however, spent thousands of hours in cyrodiil, I don't remember an efficient duellist or pvx'er primarily utilizing uppercut. It never was meta for the raids-zergs. It was meta for trolls who hunted down and ganged the most inexperienced players. Stealth attacks used to be a problem to those who roamed with glass cannon light armour setups but the CC it provided never was. Long story short, that's not fair.

Dizzy Meta not telling you anything right now? that's frightening

jecks33 · January 2023

Luede wrote: »

Dizzy Meta not telling you anything right now? that's frightening

I still remember the combo Dizzy + Executioner + Warden's Scorch while my char was still flying, 25k damage. No more, thanks

OBJnoob · January 2023

Artheiron wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

When your spammable provides CC immunity, it’s a massive problem.

Leave Uppercut alone.

In this game spitting on a mob's face gives them CC immunity. Besides, most of the above trash mobs-bosses cannot be CC'd anyway. Still, that uppercut change was meaningless.

PVP however, spent thousands of hours in cyrodiil, I don't remember an efficient duellist or pvx'er primarily utilizing uppercut. It never was meta for the raids-zergs. It was meta for trolls who hunted down and ganged the most inexperienced players. Stealth attacks used to be a problem to those who roamed with glass cannon light armour setups but the CC it provided never was. Long story short, that's not fair.

Dizzy had a LONG reign of borderline OPness in PvP, round about the same time as the heavy armor 7th legion/fury/ravager meta. As did the 2H line in general.

Don't get me wrong I don't care if Dizzy gets the knock back back or not. Just setting the record straight.

Meta builds would pop a clever alchemist immovable pot and just dizzy swing the heck out of you. And yes it was a L2P issue, but this mightve honestly been before the psijic skill-line and swift jewelry and getting away just wasn't as easy then. Some people... Due to some advanced weaving techniques or perhaps just due to their superior internet speed... Seemed like they could fire off dizzys incredibly fast, so much so that the game would kinda glitch, and much like snipe-desync, you'd just POOF be dead. You only saw one dizzy swing but your recap showed 3 and one executioner hitting you, and this was called macroslicing. Fengrush did this in some of his videos.

Dizzy isn't that bad now either, it just isn't used as much. ESO gave classes better spammables-- delayed burst abilities-- and better class heals. Rally isn't needed for every stam build anymore, and so people are finding better ways to use other weapons.

The best (or at least tied for the best,) guy who duels where I duel is a dizzy swing stamsorc. And that is current. Not sure what his build is exactly but he APPEARS to just dizzy you down. I've noticed he uses curse and the Vateshran 2H. He seems to have absurd uptime on snare immunity and immovability, and his offense is so oppressive you can't do anything but take it. Thing is he never runs out of stam, lol.

dinokstrunz · January 2023

No. Knock up is pretty clunky to break out from and damage spammables don't need CCs attached to them.

Artheiron · January 2023

OBJnoob wrote: »

Artheiron wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

When your spammable provides CC immunity, it’s a massive problem.

Leave Uppercut alone.

In this game spitting on a mob's face gives them CC immunity. Besides, most of the above trash mobs-bosses cannot be CC'd anyway. Still, that uppercut change was meaningless.

PVP however, spent thousands of hours in cyrodiil, I don't remember an efficient duellist or pvx'er primarily utilizing uppercut. It never was meta for the raids-zergs. It was meta for trolls who hunted down and ganged the most inexperienced players. Stealth attacks used to be a problem to those who roamed with glass cannon light armour setups but the CC it provided never was. Long story short, that's not fair.

Dizzy had a LONG reign of borderline OPness in PvP, round about the same time as the heavy armor 7th legion/fury/ravager meta. As did the 2H line in general.

Don't get me wrong I don't care if Dizzy gets the knock back back or not. Just setting the record straight.

Meta builds would pop a clever alchemist immovable pot and just dizzy swing the heck out of you. And yes it was a L2P issue, but this mightve honestly been before the psijic skill-line and swift jewelry and getting away just wasn't as easy then. Some people... Due to some advanced weaving techniques or perhaps just due to their superior internet speed... Seemed like they could fire off dizzys incredibly fast, so much so that the game would kinda glitch, and much like snipe-desync, you'd just POOF be dead. You only saw one dizzy swing but your recap showed 3 and one executioner hitting you, and this was called macroslicing. Fengrush did this in some of his videos.

Dizzy isn't that bad now either, it just isn't used as much. ESO gave classes better spammables-- delayed burst abilities-- and better class heals. Rally isn't needed for every stam build anymore, and so people are finding better ways to use other weapons.

The best (or at least tied for the best,) guy who duels where I duel is a dizzy swing stamsorc. And that is current. Not sure what his build is exactly but he APPEARS to just dizzy you down. I've noticed he uses curse and the Vateshran 2H. He seems to have absurd uptime on snare immunity and immovability, and his offense is so oppressive you can't do anything but take it. Thing is he never runs out of stam, lol.

Yep, I too don't care if gets in pvp or not my friend. I'm an absolute dinosaur when it comes to that. Also had all the fun I can get with my old guild named "bad people on a shortbus" or something? lol anyway it was fun while it lasted. But let me tell you something, we knew people would follow meta builds and trends, I remember hours of theorycrafting and counless tests we did just to find build that counters meta builds. It was much more profitable. If this is still doable, I'm game.

My only concern is the ID of the game. What I see here is nerf after nerf the game dumbed down to a level it's not even cool to joke about it. We've been asking devs to give things that'd would counter other things considered op, uppercut already had many different ways to counter it. Heck I was still able to cancel it after playing 20 hours straight and seeing things blurry.

My fear is, if this fashion stays for another 10 years, you'll be hitting each other with wooden bats like bunch of cavemen, light attacks only, no running allowed.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 2023

Wow people are really ill informed. The way dizzy swing functions now provides MORE burst than when it used to knock back, because now you can hit someone with it, then medium weave into an ultimate and execute. Bringing back the stun would not be a buff in terms of burst potential. It would be a sidegrade at best and in many ways would function as a nerf in burst potential because you would no longer be able to control the stun proc.

React · January 2023

Dizzying swing definitely needs a buff. A lot of the stam stuff does really, hybridization really favors the magicka morphs of most offensive abilities.

I'd like to see them do one of the following to dizzying swing.

1) Keep off balance. Remove the "if you hit an off balance target with dizzying swing, stun them" mechanic so I can choose when to stun them with a medium attack. Increase the damage slightly.

2) Remove the off balance. Increase the damage slightly more than suggestion #1. Return the knockback.

endgamesmug · January 2023

I used heavy into dizzy into execute seemed to go well back then

AdamLAD · January 2023

Zenimax took away compounded aspects of skills. They did not want skills to have so many different aspects. If dizzy gets its knockback, I want frags to be able to stun through block

OBJnoob · January 2023

I'm confused. Haven't used a 2h in a while. If it still stuns, what's the point exactly of adding a knock back?

@AdamLAD Add frag stun back? Maybe. Stun through block? Get real.

AdamLAD · January 2023

Javelin goes through block, so does the damage. Only the stun on frags would go through. Be excellent for the current state of mag sorc

OBJnoob · January 2023

I'm not a fan of the new javelin TBH. I understand templar isn't in a great place right now so, y'know, let them have the few toys they have. But being speared out of blocking a meteor once is really quite enough. Dodge rolling into block is what you're supposed to do I guess but if the templars timing is perfect then you're just poop outta luck.

I see no reason to give the same combo to a class that has Curse and Endless Fury. I mean you already have streak which can't be blocked or dodge. Why would you ask for it on your heavy hitter?

I know sorc needs buffs but let's use a little discretion, eh?

AdamLAD · January 2023

The reason is say it is because frags projectile speed has been nerfed its so slow. Easily dodgeable just like endless fury, ele weapon or crushing shock. Most of our burst is either blocked or roll dodged. And since HP is so high we need to do multiple bursts to kill anyone. But the chances of doing that is ridiculously low especially in lag. I'd nerf streak so it only stuns from behind, increase its cost also.

OBJnoob · January 2023

We already have one class in the game that get to effectively 1-shot people because "it's super hard to land" I don't think we need another.

Sorcs have too much delayed damage to give them a stun on that particular ability. Seriously the first time I get hit with curse, meteor, and endless fury all at once because a dang crystal frag dropped my block I'm probably going to uninstall LOL.

Combos that all arrive at once and can't be dodged or blocked just don't need to exist.

Zodiarkslayer · January 2023

I think Dizzy Swing is fine as is.
Wrecking Blow is the problem, actually.
The changes to Empower have made that morph pretty much useless.

Since Dizzy seems to be intended for PvP, why not make Wrecking into a PvE spammable option? It should be comparable damage to Flurry.
Both are single target, channelled weapon abilities and the damage of Flurry would still be higher because of Dualwield passives.

I see no reason to not do this.

Artheiron · January 2023

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I think Dizzy Swing is fine as is.
Wrecking Blow is the problem, actually.
The changes to Empower have made that morph pretty much useless.

Since Dizzy seems to be intended for PvP, why not make Wrecking into a PvE spammable option? It should be comparable damage to Flurry.
Both are single target, channelled weapon abilities and the damage of Flurry would still be higher because of Dualwield passives.

I see no reason to not do this.

you've got different approach but still
/signed

Alchimiste1 · January 2023

I am in favor of this change. It wouldn't even be a big deal as the health of players in pvp has gone up significantly from those days. I doubt people would get one shot from full health even with a db thrown in.

Alchimiste1 · January 2023

OBJnoob wrote: »

We already have one class in the game that get to effectively 1-shot people because "it's super hard to land" I don't think we need another.

Sorcs have too much delayed damage to give them a stun on that particular ability. Seriously the first time I get hit with curse, meteor, and endless fury all at once because a dang crystal frag dropped my block I'm probably going to uninstall LOL.

Combos that all arrive at once and can't be dodged or blocked just don't need to exist.

You can block or roll dizzying swing, there is counterplay

OBJnoob · January 2023

@Alchimiste1 I'm in favor of the change to dizzy. I don't really understand why a "knock back" is important when it already stuns (doesn't it still stun???) But either way, doesn't seem terribly important to me either way. Give the people what they want!

The comment you quoted from me was in response to someone that said "if dizzy gets a knockback then sorc frags should stun through block." I don't think that makes any sense at all.

Alchimiste1 · January 2023

Honestly, the reason they should give dizzying its knockback back is simply because its fun, something that is lacking in the game right now.

Artheiron · January 2023

Exactly, it was fun, your companion, every trash mob, anything that has uppercut can knock you back but you can't do the same, like I said, npcs shouldn't have more fun than actual players.

Also it had that moments like throwing things off the sides of bridges. I don't see why at least wrecking blow can't have it.

Please zos.