Can we have a mythic or even some sort of consumable that ups pickpocket chances?

Saucy_Jack · January 2023

I know there's already a green perk that affects pickpocketing, but when you're dealing with pickpocketing nobles and other high-difficulty targets the success percentages are essentially a crapshoot. Thoughts?

Necrotech_Master · January 2023

maybe add force lock to that too lol

although that is a weird one, ive failed forcing a simple lock 12x in a row (@ 85% chance), but i succeed in forcing the master lock at 60% chance in 1 try lol

Hapexamendios · January 2023

Don't think it's necessary myself. The Legerdemain skill line isn't that hard to level up and maxed out will give you reasonable chances even pickpocketing nobles.

rpa · January 2023

At low legerdemain the actual pickpocket change appears smaller than the % shown. Real or not, I don't pickpocket before having a point or more in Light Fingers, it's just too frustrating. Also lag can mess the window of opportunity indication so one can fail at 100%. Prime time is not a good time for pickpocketing.

katanagirl1 · January 2023

Roll a Khajiit.

I don’t even bother with CP slottables but pickpocketing is not my favorite activity. At least i can evade the guards if I fail, ha ha.

Faulgor · January 2023

Agreed. I just want to pick pockets with characters besides my Khajiit.

No other race and activity combination is this restricted. Unless you really like to swim, I guess.

DinoZavr · January 2023

Have you seen a IRL pickpocket with a bear, fireworks, a gypsy chorus and a drum set, but still attempting to steal?

I have seen this a plenty in ESO: knight in shiny armor with a bear, soulfire illusion pet, uleashed decon assistant (alltogether! sometimes with a torch from Treasure Hunter personality)- stealing in Maltheo's house in Vastyr.
Please let me repeat: i saw exactly that dozens of times.
Do you think if that is smart?

Such approach insults a good name of thief, if you ask me!

Maybe dismiss your pets and assistant, wear 5x Night Mothers Embrace + 4x Darloc Brae + 3x Night Terror, invest in Improved Sneak (Medium Armor passive) and Out of Sight (Green CP) ?
Optional: be a Khajiit with 3 skillpoints in Feline Ambush, also optional: be a Vampire to negate stealth motion penalty.
This is quite enough to be barely invisible for NPCs (excluding Guards).
TL/DR: no other simplification necessary, it is already too simple.

spartaxoxo · January 2023

I agreed this would be nice. I wish it had been Ember's perk but too late for that. RNG isn't a skill a person can improve on, we can only get better at pickpocketing with perks.

DinoZavr · January 2023

Sparta, please, let me disagree.

You need nobles only for them Thrones furnishing plans,
you need guards only for these fancy "Wanted" posters (shillings drop during Jubilee a plenty)

Improving hard targets (the nobles and guards) pickpocketing chances to 100% will destroy risk vs reward component of gameplay. e.g. stealing turns into looting (though in desert places players use the Blade of Woe turning steal-steal-kill into one kiil & loot).

This will crush Thrones furnishing recipes prices and there will remain no much interest to pickpocket them nobles.
Is this OK for you?

Snamyap · January 2023

DinoZavr wrote: »

Have you seen a IRL pickpocket with a bear, fireworks, a gypsy chorus and a drum set, but still attempting to steal?

I have seen this a plenty in ESO: knight in shiny armor with a bear, soulfire illusion pet, uleashed decon assistant (alltogether! sometimes with a torch from Treasure Hunter personality)- stealing in Maltheo's house in Vastyr.
Please let me repeat: i saw exactly that dozens of times.
Do you think if that is smart?

Such approach insults a good name of thief, if you ask me!

Maybe dismiss your pets and assistant, wear 5x Night Mothers Embrace + 4x Darloc Brae + 3x Night Terror, invest in Improved Sneak (Medium Armor passive) and Out of Sight (Green CP) ?
Optional: be a Khajiit with 3 skillpoints in Feline Ambush, also optional: be a Vampire to negate stealth motion penalty.
This is quite enough to be barely invisible for NPCs (excluding Guards).
TL/DR: no other simplification necessary, it is already too simple.

And all that has exactly zero influence on your pickpocket chances.

DinoZavr · January 2023

@Snamyap maybe i needed to say this directly: dumbing down the game should have some reasonable limits.
"play as you want", in my understanding should not eliminate challenges and players' need to plan and think.
making pickpocketing chances 100% for harder targets will also eliminate the need to pickpocket these harder targets
is this reasonable? i'd prefer some challenge left, even a little.

Snamyap · January 2023

DinoZavr wrote: »

@Snamyap maybe i needed to say this directly: dumbing down the game should have some reasonable limits.
"play as you want", in my understanding should not eliminate challenges and players' need to plan and think.
making pickpocketing chances 100% for harder targets will also eliminate the need to pickpocket these harder targets
is this reasonable? i'd prefer some challenge left, even a little.

I totally agree on challenge, but RNG is not a challenge, it's just a random factor that you have no further control over. But, I'm also not sure how to make this mechanic more rewarding with factors you do have control over without removing challenge.

Maybe your base chance to successfully pickpocket should increase each time you pickpocket a target without being seen at all in between targets, and reset to base when you do get spotted. That way it depends more on your situational awareness than a virtual dice.

DinoZavr · January 2023

Snamyap wrote: »

Maybe your base chance to successfully pickpocket should increase each time you pickpocket a target without being seen at all in between targets, and reset to base when you do get spotted. That way it depends more on your situational awareness than a virtual dice.

Oh. Thieving spree. Good idea. Agreed

CGPsaint · January 2023

I don't know that this is necessarily needed, however I'd also like to point out that I've failed pickpocketing when it displayed a 100% chance in green... Pickpocketing and lockpicking seem to be like Whose Line Is It Anyway? where the skill points don't matter and success or failure is based on a roll of the dice.

White wabbit · January 2023

Thing is where do you stop with these mythical items , next someone will want one that increases fishing 🎣

UnabashedlyHonest · January 2023

White wabbit wrote: »

Thing is where do you stop with these mythical items , next someone will want one that increases fishing 🎣

Actually, a mythic fishing pole would be kinda nice...or something to that effect.

However, with legerdemain leveled you already get 100% and 90% chance respectively for your first two pick pockets, so no reason IMO to have a mythic that helps with pick pocketing.

Snamyap · January 2023

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

However, with legerdemain leveled you already get 100% and 90% chance respectively for your first two pick pockets, so no reason IMO to have a mythic that helps with pick pocketing.

That only goes for easy targets, there are different tiers.

spartaxoxo · January 2023

Snamyap wrote: »

DinoZavr wrote: »

@Snamyap maybe i needed to say this directly: dumbing down the game should have some reasonable limits.
"play as you want", in my understanding should not eliminate challenges and players' need to plan and think.
making pickpocketing chances 100% for harder targets will also eliminate the need to pickpocket these harder targets
is this reasonable? i'd prefer some challenge left, even a little.

I totally agree on challenge, but RNG is not a challenge, it's just a random factor that you have no further control over. But, I'm also not sure how to make this mechanic more rewarding with factors you do have control over without removing challenge.

Maybe your base chance to successfully pickpocket should increase each time you pickpocket a target without being seen at all in between targets, and reset to base when you do get spotted. That way it depends more on your situational awareness than a virtual dice.

I agree 100%. RNG isn't a challenge. If you don't have control, then it doesn't have anything to do with your preparedness or skill.

I like the idea of increasing your odds when you don't get caught. This would allow for skill /preparedness to actually be an influence on success rate. Currently, our ability doesn't really play much of a factor. This would allow people who are good at stealing to have a higher success rate pickpocketing nobles than those who don't.

fleetingyouth_ESO · January 2023

I'm confused about what is considered a success when pickpocketing.

I have a dedicated thief build I've been grinding for the black market mogul achiev. I max out my fence with blue and purple items each day from pickpocketing and safes. So I have been doing a lot of pickpocketing. I have every perk/skill related to thieving maxed and a negative detection radius. I can pickpocket a guard with 2 other guards standing practically on top of me and never be seen. When I pick safes I don't even avoid the people around I'm invisible to them.
The only time I ever fail a pickpocket is if they move in a weird way and it switches to aware but lets me still pickpocket them. If it flashes green whether 65% to 100% It's successful. By successful I mean I get an item and I'm not seen. Now it's more often a junk white item that I just trash and getting purple items is a lot harder but priests seem to have the best loot table for that.
So are we talking about success as in the rarity of the loot or as in the chance to get caught? Cause if it's being caught I don't see how if you have the thief skills and perks you could be getting caught very often.

zaria · January 2023

DinoZavr wrote: »

Have you seen a IRL pickpocket with a bear, fireworks, a gypsy chorus and a drum set, but still attempting to steal?

I have seen this a plenty in ESO: knight in shiny armor with a bear, soulfire illusion pet, uleashed decon assistant (alltogether! sometimes with a torch from Treasure Hunter personality)- stealing in Maltheo's house in Vastyr.
Please let me repeat: i saw exactly that dozens of times.
Do you think if that is smart?

Such approach insults a good name of thief, if you ask me!

Maybe dismiss your pets and assistant, wear 5x Night Mothers Embrace + 4x Darloc Brae + 3x Night Terror, invest in Improved Sneak (Medium Armor passive) and Out of Sight (Green CP) ?
Optional: be a Khajiit with 3 skillpoints in Feline Ambush, also optional: be a Vampire to negate stealth motion penalty.
This is quite enough to be barely invisible for NPCs (excluding Guards).
TL/DR: no other simplification necessary, it is already too simple.

Before the new CP I had an Khajiit getting pushed around by hostile npc as they could not see her, that was with 3 sneak sets as in 3*2+3= 9 meter reduction. Out of Sight give the same buff as Feline Ambush so all can be as Khajiit used to be but Khajiit can have both so -6 meter base, with 2 stealth set an Khajiit is at -10 meters.
Ring of wild hunt works well for buffing your speed. On an vampire or an negate speed penalty set I find you to be to fast for heist as you run into traps more

However pickpocket has its own chances for detection.
So does blade of woe, now Shadowstrike CP probably help for blade of Woe but has not tested this buff.
But for pick pocketing only Light Fingers makes it easier and how stealthy you are don't matter as long as you are not detected, yes being stealthy helps getting into position but only that.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2023

How many pockets do you think you have picked, Saucy? Haha. Folks, hide your wallets when he is around.

SpiritKitten · January 2023

as far as I know...darloc brae+night terror is bugged, so can only wear 2 sets...mother's embrace+darloc brae or mother's embrace+night terror...

I wear the first combo, and I took off my ring of the wild hunt and pickpocketing (getting into position) went way smoother

I'm on a stage 4 vampire, so I don't care about getting caught even tho I rarely do because I just sprint into invisible and the guards stop chasing

I have the perks but I rarely get purple treasure and what I REALLY want is purple furn patterns, the rng rate for thieving is horrible unless you love green and blue treasures

CGPsaint · January 2023

zaria wrote: »

Ring of wild hunt works well for buffing your speed. On an vampire or an negate speed penalty set I find you to be to fast for heist as you run into traps more

I transmuted my jewelry to Swift and just stealth all over the place in turbo!

SpiritKitten wrote: »

as far as I know...darloc brae+night terror is bugged, so can only wear 2 sets...mother's embrace+darloc brae or mother's embrace+night terror...

Wasn't aware of this issue. Any way to confirm?

Necrotech_Master · January 2023

CGPsaint wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Ring of wild hunt works well for buffing your speed. On an vampire or an negate speed penalty set I find you to be to fast for heist as you run into traps more

I transmuted my jewelry to Swift and just stealth all over the place in turbo!

SpiritKitten wrote: »

as far as I know...darloc brae+night terror is bugged, so can only wear 2 sets...mother's embrace+darloc brae or mother's embrace+night terror...

Wasn't aware of this issue. Any way to confirm?

ive been using 5pc darloc and 3pc night terror on my stealth toon i use for heists, it has something to do with the stealth set bonus from either darloc or night terror, i dont remember exactly what the issue was though

kargen27 · January 2023

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

DinoZavr wrote: »

@Snamyap maybe i needed to say this directly: dumbing down the game should have some reasonable limits.
"play as you want", in my understanding should not eliminate challenges and players' need to plan and think.
making pickpocketing chances 100% for harder targets will also eliminate the need to pickpocket these harder targets
is this reasonable? i'd prefer some challenge left, even a little.

I totally agree on challenge, but RNG is not a challenge, it's just a random factor that you have no further control over. But, I'm also not sure how to make this mechanic more rewarding with factors you do have control over without removing challenge.

Maybe your base chance to successfully pickpocket should increase each time you pickpocket a target without being seen at all in between targets, and reset to base when you do get spotted. That way it depends more on your situational awareness than a virtual dice.

I agree 100%. RNG isn't a challenge. If you don't have control, then it doesn't have anything to do with your preparedness or skill.

I like the idea of increasing your odds when you don't get caught. This would allow for skill /preparedness to actually be an influence on success rate. Currently, our ability doesn't really play much of a factor. This would allow people who are good at stealing to have a higher success rate pickpocketing nobles than those who don't.

RNG absolutely is a challenge. Just one with variables beyond your control. That is a part of the challenge.

spartaxoxo · January 2023

kargen27 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

DinoZavr wrote: »

@Snamyap maybe i needed to say this directly: dumbing down the game should have some reasonable limits.
"play as you want", in my understanding should not eliminate challenges and players' need to plan and think.
making pickpocketing chances 100% for harder targets will also eliminate the need to pickpocket these harder targets
is this reasonable? i'd prefer some challenge left, even a little.

I totally agree on challenge, but RNG is not a challenge, it's just a random factor that you have no further control over. But, I'm also not sure how to make this mechanic more rewarding with factors you do have control over without removing challenge.

Maybe your base chance to successfully pickpocket should increase each time you pickpocket a target without being seen at all in between targets, and reset to base when you do get spotted. That way it depends more on your situational awareness than a virtual dice.

I agree 100%. RNG isn't a challenge. If you don't have control, then it doesn't have anything to do with your preparedness or skill.

I like the idea of increasing your odds when you don't get caught. This would allow for skill /preparedness to actually be an influence on success rate. Currently, our ability doesn't really play much of a factor. This would allow people who are good at stealing to have a higher success rate pickpocketing nobles than those who don't.

RNG absolutely is a challenge. Just one with variables beyond your control. That is a part of the challenge.

I take the same exact action regardless if it's 100% success or 10% success. I wait until the color turns green and it makes a ding, then I press x and hope for the best. It's a risk, and I would agree it adds risk to the risk-reward system of the justice system. But, it's not something that is affected by skill expression. I would love to see the random chance be lessened but the skill expression increased, personally. I think Snamyap had a great idea for that.

BretonMage · January 2023

White wabbit wrote: »

Thing is where do you stop with these mythical items , next someone will want one that increases fishing 🎣

Tbf we need better fishing chances.. but I agree, I don't know why players are asking for farming mythics when it's already a massive hassle to swap green tree perks when we farm.

rpa · January 2023

Situational green tree perks obviously should be passives but changing that would make whoever tought making em slottables would be a good idea to lose face. Expect adjustments only if cp is ever overhauled and nerfed again.

Dr_Con · January 2023

Rajhin's Mantle would-

o wait nvm

kargen27 · January 2023

spartaxoxo wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

DinoZavr wrote: »

@Snamyap maybe i needed to say this directly: dumbing down the game should have some reasonable limits.
"play as you want", in my understanding should not eliminate challenges and players' need to plan and think.
making pickpocketing chances 100% for harder targets will also eliminate the need to pickpocket these harder targets
is this reasonable? i'd prefer some challenge left, even a little.

I totally agree on challenge, but RNG is not a challenge, it's just a random factor that you have no further control over. But, I'm also not sure how to make this mechanic more rewarding with factors you do have control over without removing challenge.

Maybe your base chance to successfully pickpocket should increase each time you pickpocket a target without being seen at all in between targets, and reset to base when you do get spotted. That way it depends more on your situational awareness than a virtual dice.

I agree 100%. RNG isn't a challenge. If you don't have control, then it doesn't have anything to do with your preparedness or skill.

I like the idea of increasing your odds when you don't get caught. This would allow for skill /preparedness to actually be an influence on success rate. Currently, our ability doesn't really play much of a factor. This would allow people who are good at stealing to have a higher success rate pickpocketing nobles than those who don't.

RNG absolutely is a challenge. Just one with variables beyond your control. That is a part of the challenge.

I take the same exact action regardless if it's 100% success or 10% success. I wait until the color turns green and it makes a ding, then I press x and hope for the best. It's a risk, and I would agree it adds risk to the risk-reward system of the justice system. But, it's not something that is affected by skill expression. I would love to see the random chance be lessened but the skill expression increased, personally. I think Snamyap had a great idea for that.

I agree it isn't something that is affected by skill. It is still a challenge. Like if I challenged you to take a six sided die and roll back to back threes once in fifteen seconds. How fast you roll is on you. How they land is luck. Having it all come together just right is the challenge. A challenge need not be based on skill.
Snamyap's idea is still random chance just with odds getting more in your favor as you succeed. Failing would still be random. ZoS would need to introduce a mini game akin to picking a lock for skill to be more that just a better random chance.

rpa · January 2023

Lockpicking works because locks are not animate. Making a pickpocketing minigame of skill is complicated because one needs to be able to pickpocket a moving npc. Having the subject stop for duration of being picked would be rather odd in a multiplayer game.