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Important Needed Economy Changes for ESO!
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King_Jude✭✭✭Billium813 wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Going to check out every trader in the game for an item that may or may not be present at any trader *at all* is "fine" apparently.
There are very few items rare enough that they may not exist anywhere in the game. And those items all cost way more money than a casual players can afford. If you want a regular rare item, you can usually find it at one of three hubs. Even on PS4 I was looking at like 15 minutes of time, and the load screens on last gen consoles are some of the worst of the worst.Having to join a guild to sell is "fine", apparently. Except to the very large number of people who plain *do not want* to join a guild, no it isn't.
So, sell in zone chat. Plenty of people make money doing that
I surrender. This is exactly what I am talking about.
I can't see "sell in zone chat" as a good recommendation for any player. Some must make money, but it is annoying and only applies to some things.
It would be nice if there was a separate "buy/sell" zone chat; similar to /yell or /emote. Perhaps it could be called [snip]? I dislike players selling in zone chat only because it clutters up the chat window.
It honestly doesn't bother me, if someone spamming a chat and I was reading something in one of my guild chats, is just scroll back up or leave the area. But I'm not gonna disregard how annoying it could be however I'm not going to get in the way of a player trying to make their gold as hard as it already is.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 30, 2022 5:35PM0 -
Treeshka✭✭✭✭✭
✭This current system is just nice. Allowing more interactions and bidding system is the biggest gold sink in the game. I am sure every week billions of gold is gone from the system thanks to bidding.
Secondly some might say current system is a bit hard to get used to since you have to check Guild Store to Guild Store to find a desired item without using any third party website or program. That is one flaw of this system that we have to live with it in my opinion.
Price system is also hard to find for some rare items but they can add systems that tracks the price data of certain items. So whenever a player is in Guild Store a cumulative price data that is collected from all Guild Stores in the server can be shown to players. But not sure how this is going to affect the database and server performance.2 -
King_Jude✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »Plan ahead? How does that help finding gear for a character?
Well you don't do this for a start.SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »A central auction house would blow up the economy and make it far worse than it already is in my opinion. The cost of everything would explode and the people who play ESO as kind of a practice for buying/selling stocks in the real world would end up with WAY too much influence. Better to make those players have to spend hours searching each vendor spread out all over the realm.
What about when you're money is low, but you gotta buy a set of gear from the traders, yet you're on a budget, also people are waiting on you so you guys can get going back to the content you were doing with your team. It's extremely redundant to have to search from trader to trader to find the best deals and to see if that item you can afford is still located as it's last seen location... It's a major hindrance to the player.
(Bolded for emphasis)
If I am going to do harder content, and I am not sure about my gear I ask ahead, and start planning.
I look up builds ("Hack the Minotaur" is a great resource) and start figuring things out. And if I need crafted gear, I make it, BEFORE it becomes an issue. I do the best I can and with what resources I have available. And if I can't do it, I ask for help, again before it becomes an issue. You know, plan ahead...
I'm not talking about not knowing the gear you need, I always know what gear I need for whatever content. But when it comes up to do something and it suddenly comes up as something that's needed that you don't have, you got to acquire it and everyone has to wait on you. So at that point, then you start doing your "planning" that you keep talking about, but it doesn't change the fact that it was just sprung on you, and you gotta go get the gear right now while everyone's waiting on you...
Whether it's PvE or PvP, you're in a group, your group is min-maxing and you have to accommodate. You're already in the middle of doing content with them and you gotta go grab the suggested gear on the fly, the games system should allow you to find the gear and at the best deals immediately without having to waste time checking from trader to trader to find what you're looking for at a good deal because your money is already low.
You're completely disregarding that, like every player isn't batman that can prep for everything imaginable given the prep time. Even so that still requires a whole lot of prep time. Lol content changes, people take breaks from the game, and they could come back and be tossed right into the mix where they didn't have planning prep time. They have to make due with what the tools at hand. But this current trader system is a major hindrance...0 -
King_Jude✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »Zodiarkslayer wrote: »Zodiarkslayer wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.
Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.
Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.VaranisArano wrote: »A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.
Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.
Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.
Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.
The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.
So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.
Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.
I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.
Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,
I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.
That's absolutely false but humor me this, how much money can you consistently make in an hour as profit and elder scrolls online and what exactly are you doing to make that cash? what are you selling?-
All my toons have Jewelry lv50, so any intricate drops from the writs go on the free market
All upgrade mats that I do not need.
Surplus items with value, like hot overland drops in good traits
Companion gear in purple
Valuable stuff from all kinds of dailies
Or high value ingredients for potion making, like corn flower, for example
I even sell repair kits, because I get a free stack of 200 every week from writs
[\list]
A million per week is always possible and I am not even farming the valuable stuff, like the latest furnishing recipes or anything that is rare, valuable and in demand.
I gotcha, a million a week. But what do you make an hour guaranteed? If you decided you wanted to make some money, how much can you make an hour at a guaranteed rate that does not involve carries?
Carries? I play SOLO now, always.
Please do not insinuate anything. That keeps the forum civil. 🤨
The gold per hour thinking is not fitting to measure your success. ☝️
That thinking is totally 2010. 😂
The return in gold is often not happening straight away. I mean, it is not gold drops we are talking about, that make the profit.
You should look up your total income per week. Or even better per month.
Sales are often better at weekends, because of more population. And grinding is easier during graveyard time in the week, mondays to thursdays, because of a lot less population. You've got to bring these two together.
If not, you are just lying to yourself by creating a random and misleading number.
Gold per hour... 😞
And the true Masters of commerce know when to sell and when to keep/store.
You do not want to sell at low prices when you can expect them to rise again in the near future. Or at/before events. Good traders know that and utilise ESOplus, Alt accounts, storage mules and the craftbag to maximise storage and profit respectively.
And all these can be pruchased with RL money, which is why I see that critically. It's unlikely to change and I've made my peace with that.
But still, one can purchase himself an advantage, if one desires it.
And btw, that one million is considered "not even trying" in many trading guilds. It really comes in almost passively.
The GM of a partner guild made 300 millions in the first week of Zeal of Zenithar event. I am not kidding. He's very public about it. You can easily find him on YouTube, if you search. And before you ask, I will not call him out by name, because I do not know if it is against his will or even community rules on the forums. Okay?
If you feel you know nothing about trading, start by joining a trading guild with a discord. Most advertise in Zone Chat of the trading hubs they are in: Mournhold, Vivec City, Belkarth, etc.
Pay their fees and talk to them. Ask them. Learn from them. That is the best way. Youtubers rarely know what is what and are mostly clickbaiting you.
I believe I understand your line of thinking, you're not used to playing an MMO where you have plenty of products you can get as a guaranteed drop that can sell for a decent rate of cash. For example in RuneScape, you can sell dragon ones for 3k each, and green dragon hide for 1.5k each around the time I was playing many years ago. My character was strong so I calculated how much I could kill, how much I could profit an hour. That's common in MMORPGs.
This issue with ESO is the only thing you can kill for a close to a guaranteed drop is animals for hide, and it's not even always guaranteed, also it's not worth enough to make the average player want to farm it. It simply isn't worth enough. ESO doesn't have any product that you can farm at a guaranteed hourly rate for profit. You say it's not realistic to farm at an hourly rate, but that's just because ESO doesn't offer a proper reward loot system for players to utilize, however you can farm XP for an hourly rate, just not products for profit... If this has been your only MMORPG, just say that. Lol
Lol the point I'm getting at is that this is a game, not IRL, and also technically irl would have the features if you're doing online shopping.
Lol that's cute how you're going on about not knowing anything about trading as I merch in other MMORPGs. Your buddy made 300m by flipping. For example. The rare thesis recipe item used to make 150% xp pvp food is being flipped all the time where people might buy it for as low as 150m and re sell it for 300m. You need loads of gold to be able to flip like this and you can make a lot of money at a fast rate.
Getting there is an issue. Earning gold per hour isn't something you can fathom cause you're not used to it cause this game does it badly while other games do it flawlessly. During this event, powering leveling CP has got me casual rate of 9m XP an hour which could be raised to 9.5-10m an hour depending how try hard we want to be.
Just because you may not know much about trading doesn't mean you should dismiss the other side of trading. Lol
I dunno. It seems like there are a lot of assumptions you are making.
Here is the thing about eso, you are not required to trade to play. The trade system is a time saver nothing more. You can in fact bypass the entire system and still play just fine. Afterall there isn't anything that you can buy or trade that you can not obtain with time, effort, and/or skill. The trade system is a shortcut to those ends and rewards players who dedicate their time to fill those that don't want to do the above.
You don't need a lot of gold to actually play the game.
If you can point me to a single gameplay aspect that 100% requires gold expenditures that is debilitating to gameplay please let me know.
My friend was just complaining to me to where she often has a plan to that costs about 13 or more heartwood, and she might need like 30+ of that particular furniture for her housing project, and she's tried farming it, which takes her about an hour to just get 30 which isn't even close to a stack... She doesn't want to farm that long for so little...
That’s a problem with furnishings and drop rates, not with how trade works. ZoS makes everything take an inordinate amount of heartwood and mundane runes, even things that are not enchanting or woodworking plans. Some of the recipes are nonsensical. Just look at the comparison of those mats with things like bast and regulus and it’s easy to see that ZoS has skewed these recipes very unfavorably. That’s a fix that should absolutely take place but, again, has nothing to do with trading.
The thing though with me is that I am always farming for mats because I know better than to buy them at a vendor. I just store them up for when I want to furnish a home, then I don't have to run around looking for mats. I don't do a ton of sales, but I make my money really by spending my gold wisely.
The guy you quoted said he had a friend who had to run all over for heartwood. Well, I am really into housing yet..,
And while we are at it.
(etc.)
Just plan ahead for what you want to do. Stop relying on a vendor to fix emergencies for you.
This is the second time in this thread I see a simple example of just how planning ahead can save a person a lot of problems.
Personally, I believe that varies, also the screenshots of the materials you've posted isn't a lot. For example say someone is creating something that takes up 60 housing spaces, that heartwood would only make 42 of them, so you don't even have enough but you took your time and prepped out plenty. Thats just one type of item too, housing takes up a lot more than you think. You gotta understand just because something might work for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone else. This is an MMORPG with the freedom to play as you want and not everyone plays the same way.
You say to just plan ahead but people maybe planning for other things, multiple things, you really cannot plan for everything. People do housing, people do trials, people do trifectas, people do PvP, people farm, there's just so much for people to do, you can't stop and do everything, but you can pick and choose what you prep for and what you buy so you can get tasks done sooner. That's absolutely realistic when you think about it.
No one is just filling their houses with just wood working items.
I am an officer in a housing guild and I run a housing contest in another. That is plenty.
What's more there are achievement furnishings, home furnishings...
I just made this home and it hardly made a dent.
That is plenty of mats.
Yes I agree that players are filling their houses up with just woodworking but that is a lot of different types of mats, but if you gotta make a lot of the same furniture like maybe making a lot of floors for a bigger house to decorate, a lot of chairs which is clothing, a lot of stairs from the enchanting table, there's a lot of mats needed and players that get into housing often struggle with The current acquisition of obtaining materials. Some people often luck out when decorating smaller homes.
So I agree with you, that's a whole lot of mats. Lol0 -
King_Jude✭✭✭Maybe not a popular opinion, but I hate guild trader. I understand the concept behind that, but I hate the fact of having to go around the whole Tamriel to find the item I need/want.
I’m not against removing the guild traders, but I’m for adding a market like in RuneScape where you can freely buy and sell items to any players.
Thank you for speaking up. 🗣️ More players agree with this, just not enough players within the forums. More so players in the game.0 -
King_Jude✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Going to check out every trader in the game for an item that may or may not be present at any trader *at all* is "fine" apparently.
There are very few items rare enough that they may not exist anywhere in the game. And those items usually cost way more money than a casual players can afford. Someone who can buy something like the Sixth House Banner is already making money in this game just fine. If you want a regular rare item, you can usually find it at one of three hubs. Even on PS4 I was looking at like 15 minutes of time, and the load screens on last gen consoles are some of the worst of the worst. I've had to actually hunt for an item that was both rare and cheap really hard only a couple of times in the multiple years I've played this game.
I won't deny a central hub would make it easier to find. But, upending an entire economy over a very rare occurrence isn't a compelling argument to me personally.Having to join a guild to sell is "fine", apparently. Except to the very large number of people who plain *do not want* to join a guild, no it isn't.
So, sell in zone chat. Plenty of people make money doing that
How can you call it a rare occurrence if it's constant on console?
Because it's not a constant on console. The majority of what players buy, the items that actually move and don't need to be relisted, are available at the capital city traders. And frankly, they are generally easier to find at those traders too.
From a console gamer and a PC gamer, I can strongly attest to the notion that it's definitely an issue on console from experience, and just about every player I meet on console complaining about the same thing...0 -
King_Jude✭✭✭This current system is just nice. Allowing more interactions and bidding system is the biggest gold sink in the game. I am sure every week billions of gold is gone from the system thanks to bidding.
Secondly some might say current system is a bit hard to get used to since you have to check Guild Store to Guild Store to find a desired item without using any third party website or program. That is one flaw of this system that we have to live with it in my opinion.
Price system is also hard to find for some rare items but they can add systems that tracks the price data of certain items. So whenever a player is in Guild Store a cumulative price data that is collected from all Guild Stores in the server can be shown to players. But not sure how this is going to affect the database and server performance.
I spoke on how bidding wouldn't change... I only talked about improving the current system, not dismantling it. How you obtain a guild trader isn't what I want to change, the features that guild traders provide is what I want updated. We need more features. I've explained this. Gotta read the whole post.
Why would we have to live with that flaw in a game that's constantly updating for the better?
Just carefully re-read my whole post cause I've explained your third paragraph too.0 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »Zodiarkslayer wrote: »Zodiarkslayer wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.
Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.
Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.VaranisArano wrote: »A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.
Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.
Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.
Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.
The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.
So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.
Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.
I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.
Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,
I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.
That's absolutely false but humor me this, how much money can you consistently make in an hour as profit and elder scrolls online and what exactly are you doing to make that cash? what are you selling?-
All my toons have Jewelry lv50, so any intricate drops from the writs go on the free market
All upgrade mats that I do not need.
Surplus items with value, like hot overland drops in good traits
Companion gear in purple
Valuable stuff from all kinds of dailies
Or high value ingredients for potion making, like corn flower, for example
I even sell repair kits, because I get a free stack of 200 every week from writs
[\list]
A million per week is always possible and I am not even farming the valuable stuff, like the latest furnishing recipes or anything that is rare, valuable and in demand.
I gotcha, a million a week. But what do you make an hour guaranteed? If you decided you wanted to make some money, how much can you make an hour at a guaranteed rate that does not involve carries?
Carries? I play SOLO now, always.
Please do not insinuate anything. That keeps the forum civil. 🤨
The gold per hour thinking is not fitting to measure your success. ☝️
That thinking is totally 2010. 😂
The return in gold is often not happening straight away. I mean, it is not gold drops we are talking about, that make the profit.
You should look up your total income per week. Or even better per month.
Sales are often better at weekends, because of more population. And grinding is easier during graveyard time in the week, mondays to thursdays, because of a lot less population. You've got to bring these two together.
If not, you are just lying to yourself by creating a random and misleading number.
Gold per hour... 😞
And the true Masters of commerce know when to sell and when to keep/store.
You do not want to sell at low prices when you can expect them to rise again in the near future. Or at/before events. Good traders know that and utilise ESOplus, Alt accounts, storage mules and the craftbag to maximise storage and profit respectively.
And all these can be pruchased with RL money, which is why I see that critically. It's unlikely to change and I've made my peace with that.
But still, one can purchase himself an advantage, if one desires it.
And btw, that one million is considered "not even trying" in many trading guilds. It really comes in almost passively.
The GM of a partner guild made 300 millions in the first week of Zeal of Zenithar event. I am not kidding. He's very public about it. You can easily find him on YouTube, if you search. And before you ask, I will not call him out by name, because I do not know if it is against his will or even community rules on the forums. Okay?
If you feel you know nothing about trading, start by joining a trading guild with a discord. Most advertise in Zone Chat of the trading hubs they are in: Mournhold, Vivec City, Belkarth, etc.
Pay their fees and talk to them. Ask them. Learn from them. That is the best way. Youtubers rarely know what is what and are mostly clickbaiting you.
I believe I understand your line of thinking, you're not used to playing an MMO where you have plenty of products you can get as a guaranteed drop that can sell for a decent rate of cash. For example in RuneScape, you can sell dragon ones for 3k each, and green dragon hide for 1.5k each around the time I was playing many years ago. My character was strong so I calculated how much I could kill, how much I could profit an hour. That's common in MMORPGs.
This issue with ESO is the only thing you can kill for a close to a guaranteed drop is animals for hide, and it's not even always guaranteed, also it's not worth enough to make the average player want to farm it. It simply isn't worth enough. ESO doesn't have any product that you can farm at a guaranteed hourly rate for profit. You say it's not realistic to farm at an hourly rate, but that's just because ESO doesn't offer a proper reward loot system for players to utilize, however you can farm XP for an hourly rate, just not products for profit... If this has been your only MMORPG, just say that. Lol
Lol the point I'm getting at is that this is a game, not IRL, and also technically irl would have the features if you're doing online shopping.
Lol that's cute how you're going on about not knowing anything about trading as I merch in other MMORPGs. Your buddy made 300m by flipping. For example. The rare thesis recipe item used to make 150% xp pvp food is being flipped all the time where people might buy it for as low as 150m and re sell it for 300m. You need loads of gold to be able to flip like this and you can make a lot of money at a fast rate.
Getting there is an issue. Earning gold per hour isn't something you can fathom cause you're not used to it cause this game does it badly while other games do it flawlessly. During this event, powering leveling CP has got me casual rate of 9m XP an hour which could be raised to 9.5-10m an hour depending how try hard we want to be.
Just because you may not know much about trading doesn't mean you should dismiss the other side of trading. Lol
I dunno. It seems like there are a lot of assumptions you are making.
Here is the thing about eso, you are not required to trade to play. The trade system is a time saver nothing more. You can in fact bypass the entire system and still play just fine. Afterall there isn't anything that you can buy or trade that you can not obtain with time, effort, and/or skill. The trade system is a shortcut to those ends and rewards players who dedicate their time to fill those that don't want to do the above.
You don't need a lot of gold to actually play the game.
If you can point me to a single gameplay aspect that 100% requires gold expenditures that is debilitating to gameplay please let me know.
My friend was just complaining to me to where she often has a plan to that costs about 13 or more heartwood, and she might need like 30+ of that particular furniture for her housing project, and she's tried farming it, which takes her about an hour to just get 30 which isn't even close to a stack... She doesn't want to farm that long for so little...
That’s a problem with furnishings and drop rates, not with how trade works. ZoS makes everything take an inordinate amount of heartwood and mundane runes, even things that are not enchanting or woodworking plans. Some of the recipes are nonsensical. Just look at the comparison of those mats with things like bast and regulus and it’s easy to see that ZoS has skewed these recipes very unfavorably. That’s a fix that should absolutely take place but, again, has nothing to do with trading.
It has everything to do with trading, as improving the trade system would allow players to easily find more of the product for far better deals far quicker. Also this would give more competitive pricings making those cheaper.
Why would you rather focus on "fixing" the trade system instead of fixing the root of the problem? I, for sure, would rather these recipes and drop rates be balanced between crafts, even though I personally do participate much in housing.PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS2 -
fizl101✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As a console player I like the current system. Its like comparing going out to the shops or shopping on Amazon. Yes Amazon is convenient for the buyers but not for the people that own the shops in the shopping centre
Tamriel doesnt have an Amazon like service, it has shopping centres and corner shops, that you go and visit.
I am not in any trading guilds so I am not saying this from only one perspective. Not everyone is chasing the meta to the absolute minute (and tbh as a person who likes trials most I have never ever had someone leave half way through to go buy something asolutely critical).
Its up to you how you invest your time in the game, and the game expects some compromises from you if you arent going to do all your farming for gear, reagents etc yourself. To someone who loves trading that is their end game, just as pvp/trials is yours. We shouldnt be asking to take away peoples enjoyment of the game for anothers convenience
Soupy twist2 -
King_Jude✭✭✭wolfie1.0. wrote: »Zodiarkslayer wrote: »Zodiarkslayer wrote: »wolfie1.0. wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.
Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.
Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.VaranisArano wrote: »A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.
Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.
Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.
Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.
The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.
So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.
Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.
I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.
Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,
I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.
That's absolutely false but humor me this, how much money can you consistently make in an hour as profit and elder scrolls online and what exactly are you doing to make that cash? what are you selling?-
All my toons have Jewelry lv50, so any intricate drops from the writs go on the free market
All upgrade mats that I do not need.
Surplus items with value, like hot overland drops in good traits
Companion gear in purple
Valuable stuff from all kinds of dailies
Or high value ingredients for potion making, like corn flower, for example
I even sell repair kits, because I get a free stack of 200 every week from writs
[\list]
A million per week is always possible and I am not even farming the valuable stuff, like the latest furnishing recipes or anything that is rare, valuable and in demand.
I gotcha, a million a week. But what do you make an hour guaranteed? If you decided you wanted to make some money, how much can you make an hour at a guaranteed rate that does not involve carries?
Carries? I play SOLO now, always.
Please do not insinuate anything. That keeps the forum civil. 🤨
The gold per hour thinking is not fitting to measure your success. ☝️
That thinking is totally 2010. 😂
The return in gold is often not happening straight away. I mean, it is not gold drops we are talking about, that make the profit.
You should look up your total income per week. Or even better per month.
Sales are often better at weekends, because of more population. And grinding is easier during graveyard time in the week, mondays to thursdays, because of a lot less population. You've got to bring these two together.
If not, you are just lying to yourself by creating a random and misleading number.
Gold per hour... 😞
And the true Masters of commerce know when to sell and when to keep/store.
You do not want to sell at low prices when you can expect them to rise again in the near future. Or at/before events. Good traders know that and utilise ESOplus, Alt accounts, storage mules and the craftbag to maximise storage and profit respectively.
And all these can be pruchased with RL money, which is why I see that critically. It's unlikely to change and I've made my peace with that.
But still, one can purchase himself an advantage, if one desires it.
And btw, that one million is considered "not even trying" in many trading guilds. It really comes in almost passively.
The GM of a partner guild made 300 millions in the first week of Zeal of Zenithar event. I am not kidding. He's very public about it. You can easily find him on YouTube, if you search. And before you ask, I will not call him out by name, because I do not know if it is against his will or even community rules on the forums. Okay?
If you feel you know nothing about trading, start by joining a trading guild with a discord. Most advertise in Zone Chat of the trading hubs they are in: Mournhold, Vivec City, Belkarth, etc.
Pay their fees and talk to them. Ask them. Learn from them. That is the best way. Youtubers rarely know what is what and are mostly clickbaiting you.
I believe I understand your line of thinking, you're not used to playing an MMO where you have plenty of products you can get as a guaranteed drop that can sell for a decent rate of cash. For example in RuneScape, you can sell dragon ones for 3k each, and green dragon hide for 1.5k each around the time I was playing many years ago. My character was strong so I calculated how much I could kill, how much I could profit an hour. That's common in MMORPGs.
This issue with ESO is the only thing you can kill for a close to a guaranteed drop is animals for hide, and it's not even always guaranteed, also it's not worth enough to make the average player want to farm it. It simply isn't worth enough. ESO doesn't have any product that you can farm at a guaranteed hourly rate for profit. You say it's not realistic to farm at an hourly rate, but that's just because ESO doesn't offer a proper reward loot system for players to utilize, however you can farm XP for an hourly rate, just not products for profit... If this has been your only MMORPG, just say that. Lol
Lol the point I'm getting at is that this is a game, not IRL, and also technically irl would have the features if you're doing online shopping.
Lol that's cute how you're going on about not knowing anything about trading as I merch in other MMORPGs. Your buddy made 300m by flipping. For example. The rare thesis recipe item used to make 150% xp pvp food is being flipped all the time where people might buy it for as low as 150m and re sell it for 300m. You need loads of gold to be able to flip like this and you can make a lot of money at a fast rate.
Getting there is an issue. Earning gold per hour isn't something you can fathom cause you're not used to it cause this game does it badly while other games do it flawlessly. During this event, powering leveling CP has got me casual rate of 9m XP an hour which could be raised to 9.5-10m an hour depending how try hard we want to be.
Just because you may not know much about trading doesn't mean you should dismiss the other side of trading. Lol
I dunno. It seems like there are a lot of assumptions you are making.
Here is the thing about eso, you are not required to trade to play. The trade system is a time saver nothing more. You can in fact bypass the entire system and still play just fine. Afterall there isn't anything that you can buy or trade that you can not obtain with time, effort, and/or skill. The trade system is a shortcut to those ends and rewards players who dedicate their time to fill those that don't want to do the above.
You don't need a lot of gold to actually play the game.
If you can point me to a single gameplay aspect that 100% requires gold expenditures that is debilitating to gameplay please let me know.
My friend was just complaining to me to where she often has a plan to that costs about 13 or more heartwood, and she might need like 30+ of that particular furniture for her housing project, and she's tried farming it, which takes her about an hour to just get 30 which isn't even close to a stack... She doesn't want to farm that long for so little...
That’s a problem with furnishings and drop rates, not with how trade works. ZoS makes everything take an inordinate amount of heartwood and mundane runes, even things that are not enchanting or woodworking plans. Some of the recipes are nonsensical. Just look at the comparison of those mats with things like bast and regulus and it’s easy to see that ZoS has skewed these recipes very unfavorably. That’s a fix that should absolutely take place but, again, has nothing to do with trading.
It has everything to do with trading, as improving the trade system would allow players to easily find more of the product for far better deals far quicker. Also this would give more competitive pricings making those cheaper.
Why would you rather focus on "fixing" the trade system instead of fixing the root of the problem? I, for sure, would rather these recipes and drop rates be balanced between crafts, even though I personally do participate much in housing.
Because that's a totally different issue, the trade system is still an issue that has to be resolved... I honestly would like both to be resolved because fixing that other issue you call the root doesn't entirely fix the trade issue. There's still issues other than that which still trace to the trade issue. That's why. What you pointed out is only one factor. Far from the root.0 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To be honest, after reading through the whole thread it seems to me that the OP is coming from a position of "I don't want to pay those prices for the things I want", and has tried to redesign the way traders work so that he can get what he wants at the price that he wants to pay.
Traders? "Their point of view is not valid. How dare they ask for more than I want to pay?"
Farmers? "They enjoy what they do. My time is too precious to waste farming, but they should be thankful I pay them at all".
Undercutters? "I want a race to the bottom so I can get what I want for the least gold".
ZoS? "They should give me FF14".10 -
King_Jude✭✭✭As a console player I like the current system. Its like comparing going out to the shops or shopping on Amazon. Yes Amazon is convenient for the buyers but not for the people that own the shops in the shopping centre
Tamriel doesnt have an Amazon like service, it has shopping centres and corner shops, that you go and visit.
I am not in any trading guilds so I am not saying this from only one perspective. Not everyone is chasing the meta to the absolute minute (and tbh as a person who likes trials most I have never ever had someone leave half way through to go buy something asolutely critical).
Its up to you how you invest your time in the game, and the game expects some compromises from you if you arent going to do all your farming for gear, reagents etc yourself. To someone who loves trading that is their end game, just as pvp/trials is yours. We shouldnt be asking to take away peoples enjoyment of the game for anothers convenience
In the same argument you make as "we shouldn't be asking to take away people's enjoyment of the game for another's convenience" can be said in vice versa! However the current system. Affects player in a more negative way. Also the current system makes it far more difficult for newer players to get into...
Leaving in a trial and leaving in PvP we're examples however I've seen it. Especially more common in PvP.
Yes it should be up to us about how we should invest our time, and nobody wants to spend an extraordinary amount of time doing something inconvenient that can be done in seconds. Not everybody wants to spend their time going from trader to trader. Not everybody wants to spend their time farming that one product when they can be doing something else they would rather enjoy doing. You're offering complaints with no solution. Winning the system to stay the same isn't a solution to the issue.0 -
King_Jude✭✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »To be honest, after reading through the whole thread it seems to me that the OP is coming from a position of "I don't want to pay those prices for the things I want", and has tried to redesign the way traders work so that he can get what he wants at the price that he wants to pay.
Traders? "Their point of view is not valid. How dare they ask for more than I want to pay?"
Farmers? "They enjoy what they do. My time is too precious to waste farming, but they should be thankful I pay them at all".
Undercutters? "I want a race to the bottom so I can get what I want for the least gold".
ZoS? "They should give me FF14".
Lol it's actually far more in depth than that, but I'd that's all you got from it. That's fine.0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »Plan ahead? How does that help finding gear for a character?
Well you don't do this for a start.SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »A central auction house would blow up the economy and make it far worse than it already is in my opinion. The cost of everything would explode and the people who play ESO as kind of a practice for buying/selling stocks in the real world would end up with WAY too much influence. Better to make those players have to spend hours searching each vendor spread out all over the realm.
What about when you're money is low, but you gotta buy a set of gear from the traders, yet you're on a budget, also people are waiting on you so you guys can get going back to the content you were doing with your team. It's extremely redundant to have to search from trader to trader to find the best deals and to see if that item you can afford is still located as it's last seen location... It's a major hindrance to the player.
(Bolded for emphasis)
If I am going to do harder content, and I am not sure about my gear I ask ahead, and start planning.
I look up builds ("Hack the Minotaur" is a great resource) and start figuring things out. And if I need crafted gear, I make it, BEFORE it becomes an issue. I do the best I can and with what resources I have available. And if I can't do it, I ask for help, again before it becomes an issue. You know, plan ahead...
I'm not talking about not knowing the gear you need, I always know what gear I need for whatever content. But when it comes up to do something and it suddenly comes up as something that's needed that you don't have, you got to acquire it and everyone has to wait on you. So at that point, then you start doing your "planning" that you keep talking about, but it doesn't change the fact that it was just sprung on you, and you gotta go get the gear right now while everyone's waiting on you...
Whether it's PvE or PvP, you're in a group, your group is min-maxing and you have to accommodate. You're already in the middle of doing content with them and you gotta go grab the suggested gear on the fly, the games system should allow you to find the gear and at the best deals immediately without having to waste time checking from trader to trader to find what you're looking for at a good deal because your money is already low.
You're completely disregarding that, like every player isn't batman that can prep for everything imaginable given the prep time. Even so that still requires a whole lot of prep time. Lol content changes, people take breaks from the game, and they could come back and be tossed right into the mix where they didn't have planning prep time. They have to make due with what the tools at hand. But this current trader system is a major hindrance...
No one should ever be waiting on you to get geared up.
Understand?
You are doing min-max type content, and you are preparing for it while doing it? That is just stunning.
What scenario are you describing? That your off playing ToT then suddenly your in a group of strangers doing vKA hard mode, they need you to heal and your a stam dps?
Or are you in mismatched greens and blues?
I mean if that is not the scenario then what are you doing exactly?
• I have a stam dps character as my main. I have a trial build for that character. They have food/potions ready to go. I actually have enough of those to share if needs be.
• I have a stam tank character, that one is appropriately trial geared. Again with food/potions.
• I have a magika dps character. Guess what? While they have never been in a trial, they should be fine.
• I don’t pvp that often in a group, but if I did I would have appropriate gear before doing it. If I am playing solo, then I just suffer through it.
• If they ask me to heal, I tell them I don’t have a geared healer. If in the future they do need me to heal I will work on it for next time. (This scenario has never come up luckily.)
(Btw I am NOT in a regular trial group, I am an alternate for a friends trial group.)
This is not being Batman. This is acknowledging that the particular content exists, I am willing to do it, and I am prepared for it.
And if you are truly doing cutting edge min/max content, a guild vendor will not save you. Most of the really great gear comes from trials, mythics, and dungeons. And that stuff is bound to the people doing it. The only gear you can possibly need from a guild vendor is overland gear sets that you don’t want to farm for yourself. (Crafted sets can be crafted, no need to buy.) I can’t think of a dungeon/trial set that drops that can be resold. I don’t think they exist.
Lastly, if a trial is kicking us around and we are not making headway, we step out, reset it, lower the difficulty and go back in.
Who stands around waiting for someone to gear themselves?6 -
King_Jude✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »Plan ahead? How does that help finding gear for a character?
Well you don't do this for a start.SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »A central auction house would blow up the economy and make it far worse than it already is in my opinion. The cost of everything would explode and the people who play ESO as kind of a practice for buying/selling stocks in the real world would end up with WAY too much influence. Better to make those players have to spend hours searching each vendor spread out all over the realm.
What about when you're money is low, but you gotta buy a set of gear from the traders, yet you're on a budget, also people are waiting on you so you guys can get going back to the content you were doing with your team. It's extremely redundant to have to search from trader to trader to find the best deals and to see if that item you can afford is still located as it's last seen location... It's a major hindrance to the player.
(Bolded for emphasis)
If I am going to do harder content, and I am not sure about my gear I ask ahead, and start planning.
I look up builds ("Hack the Minotaur" is a great resource) and start figuring things out. And if I need crafted gear, I make it, BEFORE it becomes an issue. I do the best I can and with what resources I have available. And if I can't do it, I ask for help, again before it becomes an issue. You know, plan ahead...
I'm not talking about not knowing the gear you need, I always know what gear I need for whatever content. But when it comes up to do something and it suddenly comes up as something that's needed that you don't have, you got to acquire it and everyone has to wait on you. So at that point, then you start doing your "planning" that you keep talking about, but it doesn't change the fact that it was just sprung on you, and you gotta go get the gear right now while everyone's waiting on you...
Whether it's PvE or PvP, you're in a group, your group is min-maxing and you have to accommodate. You're already in the middle of doing content with them and you gotta go grab the suggested gear on the fly, the games system should allow you to find the gear and at the best deals immediately without having to waste time checking from trader to trader to find what you're looking for at a good deal because your money is already low.
You're completely disregarding that, like every player isn't batman that can prep for everything imaginable given the prep time. Even so that still requires a whole lot of prep time. Lol content changes, people take breaks from the game, and they could come back and be tossed right into the mix where they didn't have planning prep time. They have to make due with what the tools at hand. But this current trader system is a major hindrance...
No one should ever be waiting on you to get geared up.
Understand?
You are doing min-max type content, and you are preparing for it while doing it? That is just stunning.
What scenario are you describing? That your off playing ToT then suddenly your in a group of strangers doing vKA hard mode, they need you to heal and your a stam dps?
Or are you in mismatched greens and blues?
I mean if that is not the scenario then what are you doing exactly?
• I have a stam dps character as my main. I have a trial build for that character. They have food/potions ready to go. I actually have enough of those to share if needs be.
• I have a stam tank character, that one is appropriately trial geared. Again with food/potions.
• I have a magika dps character. Guess what? While they have never been in a trial, they should be fine.
• I don’t pvp that often in a group, but if I did I would have appropriate gear before doing it. If I am playing solo, then I just suffer through it.
• If they ask me to heal, I tell them I don’t have a geared healer. If in the future they do need me to heal I will work on it for next time. (This scenario has never come up luckily.)
(Btw I am NOT in a regular trial group, I am an alternate for a friends trial group.)
This is not being Batman. This is acknowledging that the particular content exists, I am willing to do it, and I am prepared for it.
And if you are truly doing cutting edge min/max content, a guild vendor will not save you. Most of the really great gear comes from trials, mythics, and dungeons. And that stuff is bound to the people doing it. The only gear you can possibly need from a guild vendor is overland gear sets that you don’t want to farm for yourself. (Crafted sets can be crafted, no need to buy.) I can’t think of a dungeon/trial set that drops that can be resold. I don’t think they exist.
Lastly, if a trial is kicking us around and we are not making headway, we step out, reset it, lower the difficulty and go back in.
Who stands around waiting for someone to gear themselves?
Once again, trials was an example as was pvpy. I definitely see it happen more often in PvP. Yes trial gear is definitely needed in most trials, dungeon gear, mythic gear, yes of course. Not always but most of the time yes. Trials gear is hardly ever used in PvP but some is. Crafted gear is often used in PvP, overland gear that can be bought is used in PvP as well, and so is mythic gear... It's all situational but it happens.0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Going to check out every trader in the game for an item that may or may not be present at any trader *at all* is "fine" apparently.
There are very few items rare enough that they may not exist anywhere in the game. And those items usually cost way more money than a casual players can afford. Someone who can buy something like the Sixth House Banner is already making money in this game just fine. If you want a regular rare item, you can usually find it at one of three hubs. Even on PS4 I was looking at like 15 minutes of time, and the load screens on last gen consoles are some of the worst of the worst. I've had to actually hunt for an item that was both rare and cheap really hard only a couple of times in the multiple years I've played this game.
I won't deny a central hub would make it easier to find. But, upending an entire economy over a very rare occurrence isn't a compelling argument to me personally.Having to join a guild to sell is "fine", apparently. Except to the very large number of people who plain *do not want* to join a guild, no it isn't.
So, sell in zone chat. Plenty of people make money doing that
How can you call it a rare occurrence if it's constant on console?
Because it's not a constant on console. The majority of what players buy, the items that actually move and don't need to be relisted, are available at the capital city traders. And frankly, they are generally easier to find at those traders too.
From a console gamer and a PC gamer, I can strongly attest to the notion that it's definitely an issue on console from experience, and just about every player I meet on console complaining about the same thing...
Yes. Many people on console have experienced it. It doesn't mean they experienced it regularly. I have a capital city traders every week. One reason that people have trouble finding certain cheap but rare items is because they don't move and they are cheap, so people don't bother to sell them. Their is a very low demand for them. I've had such items fail to sale at reasonable prices at some of the most high traffic traders in the game. Many players have experienced that issue. But they experience it rarely.
I've experienced that like a couple of times in multiple years. Yes, it was so annoying as to be memorable. But, twice in five years for me is hardly a reason I would favor upending a thriving, stable economy.Edited by spartaxoxo on December 30, 2022 1:19PM0 -
King_Jude✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Going to check out every trader in the game for an item that may or may not be present at any trader *at all* is "fine" apparently.
There are very few items rare enough that they may not exist anywhere in the game. And those items usually cost way more money than a casual players can afford. Someone who can buy something like the Sixth House Banner is already making money in this game just fine. If you want a regular rare item, you can usually find it at one of three hubs. Even on PS4 I was looking at like 15 minutes of time, and the load screens on last gen consoles are some of the worst of the worst. I've had to actually hunt for an item that was both rare and cheap really hard only a couple of times in the multiple years I've played this game.
I won't deny a central hub would make it easier to find. But, upending an entire economy over a very rare occurrence isn't a compelling argument to me personally.Having to join a guild to sell is "fine", apparently. Except to the very large number of people who plain *do not want* to join a guild, no it isn't.
So, sell in zone chat. Plenty of people make money doing that
How can you call it a rare occurrence if it's constant on console?
Because it's not a constant on console. The majority of what players buy, the items that actually move and don't need to be relisted, are available at the capital city traders. And frankly, they are generally easier to find at those traders too.
From a console gamer and a PC gamer, I can strongly attest to the notion that it's definitely an issue on console from experience, and just about every player I meet on console complaining about the same thing...
Yes. Many people on console have experienced it. It doesn't mean they experienced it regularly. I have a capital city traders every week. One reason that people have trouble finding certain cheap but rare items is because they don't move and they are cheap, so people don't bother to sell them. Their is a very low demand for them. I've had such items fail to sale at reasonable prices at some of the most high traffic traders in the game. Many players have experienced that issue. But they experience it rarely.
I don't feel like there's any supply and demand issue in elder scrolls online. That has never been an issue in elder scrolls online. The issue is that people can't find them. Also the issue is all of the extra work going into finding them.0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Going to check out every trader in the game for an item that may or may not be present at any trader *at all* is "fine" apparently.
There are very few items rare enough that they may not exist anywhere in the game. And those items usually cost way more money than a casual players can afford. Someone who can buy something like the Sixth House Banner is already making money in this game just fine. If you want a regular rare item, you can usually find it at one of three hubs. Even on PS4 I was looking at like 15 minutes of time, and the load screens on last gen consoles are some of the worst of the worst. I've had to actually hunt for an item that was both rare and cheap really hard only a couple of times in the multiple years I've played this game.
I won't deny a central hub would make it easier to find. But, upending an entire economy over a very rare occurrence isn't a compelling argument to me personally.Having to join a guild to sell is "fine", apparently. Except to the very large number of people who plain *do not want* to join a guild, no it isn't.
So, sell in zone chat. Plenty of people make money doing that
How can you call it a rare occurrence if it's constant on console?
Because it's not a constant on console. The majority of what players buy, the items that actually move and don't need to be relisted, are available at the capital city traders. And frankly, they are generally easier to find at those traders too.
From a console gamer and a PC gamer, I can strongly attest to the notion that it's definitely an issue on console from experience, and just about every player I meet on console complaining about the same thing...
Yes. Many people on console have experienced it. It doesn't mean they experienced it regularly. I have a capital city traders every week. One reason that people have trouble finding certain cheap but rare items is because they don't move and they are cheap, so people don't bother to sell them. Their is a very low demand for them. I've had such items fail to sale at reasonable prices at some of the most high traffic traders in the game. Many players have experienced that issue. But they experience it rarely.
I don't feel like there's any supply and demand issue in elder scrolls online. That has never been an issue in elder scrolls online. The issue is that people can't find them. Also the issue is all of the extra work going into finding them.
If they can't find them, it is either a supply or demand issue. Not an issue with the guild traders. If the item was worth selling on traders and it was reasonable to get, it would be in the capital city traders.5 -
King_Jude✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Going to check out every trader in the game for an item that may or may not be present at any trader *at all* is "fine" apparently.
There are very few items rare enough that they may not exist anywhere in the game. And those items usually cost way more money than a casual players can afford. Someone who can buy something like the Sixth House Banner is already making money in this game just fine. If you want a regular rare item, you can usually find it at one of three hubs. Even on PS4 I was looking at like 15 minutes of time, and the load screens on last gen consoles are some of the worst of the worst. I've had to actually hunt for an item that was both rare and cheap really hard only a couple of times in the multiple years I've played this game.
I won't deny a central hub would make it easier to find. But, upending an entire economy over a very rare occurrence isn't a compelling argument to me personally.Having to join a guild to sell is "fine", apparently. Except to the very large number of people who plain *do not want* to join a guild, no it isn't.
So, sell in zone chat. Plenty of people make money doing that
How can you call it a rare occurrence if it's constant on console?
Because it's not a constant on console. The majority of what players buy, the items that actually move and don't need to be relisted, are available at the capital city traders. And frankly, they are generally easier to find at those traders too.
From a console gamer and a PC gamer, I can strongly attest to the notion that it's definitely an issue on console from experience, and just about every player I meet on console complaining about the same thing...
Yes. Many people on console have experienced it. It doesn't mean they experienced it regularly. I have a capital city traders every week. One reason that people have trouble finding certain cheap but rare items is because they don't move and they are cheap, so people don't bother to sell them. Their is a very low demand for them. I've had such items fail to sale at reasonable prices at some of the most high traffic traders in the game. Many players have experienced that issue. But they experience it rarely.
I don't feel like there's any supply and demand issue in elder scrolls online. That has never been an issue in elder scrolls online. The issue is that people can't find them. Also the issue is all of the extra work going into finding them.
If they can't find them, it is either a supply or demand issue. Not an issue with the guild traders. If the item was worth selling on traders and it was reasonable to get, it would be in the capital city traders.
Is the supplies out there but there's hundreds of guiltrators to look through It's not a supply issue if it's out there. I can understand that there was absolutely none listed That's the supply issue. Yes it's definitely a thing to have common products uncommon products rare products. But the biggest factor of it all is that you have hundreds of locations to search through to find what you're looking for. Each location has its own shopping list to look through. All of these issues could be resolved if players could go to a place and look at one list to find all the products.0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Going to check out every trader in the game for an item that may or may not be present at any trader *at all* is "fine" apparently.
There are very few items rare enough that they may not exist anywhere in the game. And those items usually cost way more money than a casual players can afford. Someone who can buy something like the Sixth House Banner is already making money in this game just fine. If you want a regular rare item, you can usually find it at one of three hubs. Even on PS4 I was looking at like 15 minutes of time, and the load screens on last gen consoles are some of the worst of the worst. I've had to actually hunt for an item that was both rare and cheap really hard only a couple of times in the multiple years I've played this game.
I won't deny a central hub would make it easier to find. But, upending an entire economy over a very rare occurrence isn't a compelling argument to me personally.Having to join a guild to sell is "fine", apparently. Except to the very large number of people who plain *do not want* to join a guild, no it isn't.
So, sell in zone chat. Plenty of people make money doing that
How can you call it a rare occurrence if it's constant on console?
Because it's not a constant on console. The majority of what players buy, the items that actually move and don't need to be relisted, are available at the capital city traders. And frankly, they are generally easier to find at those traders too.
From a console gamer and a PC gamer, I can strongly attest to the notion that it's definitely an issue on console from experience, and just about every player I meet on console complaining about the same thing...
Yes. Many people on console have experienced it. It doesn't mean they experienced it regularly. I have a capital city traders every week. One reason that people have trouble finding certain cheap but rare items is because they don't move and they are cheap, so people don't bother to sell them. Their is a very low demand for them. I've had such items fail to sale at reasonable prices at some of the most high traffic traders in the game. Many players have experienced that issue. But they experience it rarely.
I don't feel like there's any supply and demand issue in elder scrolls online. That has never been an issue in elder scrolls online. The issue is that people can't find them. Also the issue is all of the extra work going into finding them.
If they can't find them, it is either a supply or demand issue. Not an issue with the guild traders. If the item was worth selling on traders and it was reasonable to get, it would be in the capital city traders.
Is the supplies out there but there's hundreds of guiltrators to look through It's not a supply issue if it's out there.
Again. It can be a supply or demand issue. Like for example, I have sold cheap and rare motifs that nobody wanted and stayed listed at a cap city traders for over a month. I haven't had to relist them twice. But a couple of months before someone wants them means that the demand isn't there. It wasn't hard to get, so if the money was there it would be on traders. The supply is low because the demand is low for that item.
Upending a healthy economy because on rare occasion someone has to shop around does not make sense.
It was listed at a capital city traders. This is by far the most shopped traders in the game. You don't have to go through hundreds of traders to know that the capital city traders should be your first stop. Most players figure that out quickly and go to them first. That's why they command such a high bidding price. Anyone searching for that item, they'd have found the item in minutes.Edited by spartaxoxo on December 30, 2022 2:12PM2 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »To be honest, after reading through the whole thread it seems to me that the OP is coming from a position of "I don't want to pay those prices for the things I want", and has tried to redesign the way traders work so that he can get what he wants at the price that he wants to pay.
Traders? "Their point of view is not valid. How dare they ask for more than I want to pay?"
Farmers? "They enjoy what they do. My time is too precious to waste farming, but they should be thankful I pay them at all".
Undercutters? "I want a race to the bottom so I can get what I want for the least gold".
ZoS? "They should give me FF14".
Lol it's actually far more in depth than that, but I'd that's all you got from it. That's fine.
Lol, no, it's not a deep intellectual discussion of the economics of traders. That is all it boils down to. The two examples you give: holding up a trial while you shop around for the right gear (pants on fire - didn't prepare before? What did you need that you can buy? Not trials gear or mythics, they can't be sold); secondly, the cost of materials for housing.
You sound like a guy who rides past water hyacinth because you can't be bothered to pick it up, and then complains when I set the selling price for the flowers that I did pick.
The whole middle section of the thread was an argument about how best to farm gold, and how it wasn't worth your time so prices must come down, in part because you can't be bothered looking for a bargain. You even explained how you wanted a global price list to encourage undercutting to bring prices down, or as you call it "fair pricing". Fair for who?
P.S. You could have earned a few million (or the equivalent in mats) farming instead of arguing with every comment in this thread... probably a better way to get ahead:)Edited by I_killed_Vivec on December 30, 2022 2:54PM11 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also I gotta say I have played this game since consoles' launch, and I have never once seen someone go "Guys we really need someone to go to the guild traders and buy this gear set right now. It's urgent!" The most I have seen is asking for someone to change a morph out for a ranged interrupt and even that was exceedingly rare.
Edited by spartaxoxo on December 30, 2022 2:26PM6 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Also I gotta say I have played this game since consoles' launch, and I have never once seen someone go "Guys we really need someone to go to the guild traders and buy this gear set right now. It's urgent!" The most I have seen is asking for someone to change a morph out for a ranged interrupt and even that was exceedingly rare.
I've played since beta and I've never heard of anyone say "Hold on, I need a pair of gold briarheart daggers, one sharpened, one nirncrux" (briarheart used as an example of something you can actually buy). And indeed I wouldn't necessarily expect to find them on sale at any given moment - even with a global auction house.
The idea of delaying play because of the sudden, unexpected need for a specific piece of gear is a made up nonargument, clutching at straws to bolster a flimsy premise that the current traders are failing.11 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Also I gotta say I have played this game since consoles' launch, and I have never once seen someone go "Guys we really need someone to go to the guild traders and buy this gear set right now. It's urgent!" The most I have seen is asking for someone to change a morph out for a ranged interrupt and even that was exceedingly rare.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Also I gotta say I have played this game since consoles' launch, and I have never once seen someone go "Guys we really need someone to go to the guild traders and buy this gear set right now. It's urgent!" The most I have seen is asking for someone to change a morph out for a ranged interrupt and even that was exceedingly rare.
I've played since beta and I've never heard of anyone say "Hold on, I need a pair of gold briarheart daggers, one sharpened, one nirncrux" (briarheart used as an example of something you can actually buy). And indeed I wouldn't necessarily expect to find them on sale at any given moment - even with a global auction house.
The idea of delaying play because of the sudden, unexpected need for a specific piece of gear is a made up nonargument, clutching at straws to bolster a flimsy premise that the current traders are failing.
Thank you!
These two comments have restored my sanity.
I have been walking around, muttering to myself about this. I can finally put it past me and concentrate on something else.8 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »Plan ahead? How does that help finding gear for a character?
Well you don't do this for a start.SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »A central auction house would blow up the economy and make it far worse than it already is in my opinion. The cost of everything would explode and the people who play ESO as kind of a practice for buying/selling stocks in the real world would end up with WAY too much influence. Better to make those players have to spend hours searching each vendor spread out all over the realm.
What about when you're money is low, but you gotta buy a set of gear from the traders, yet you're on a budget, also people are waiting on you so you guys can get going back to the content you were doing with your team. It's extremely redundant to have to search from trader to trader to find the best deals and to see if that item you can afford is still located as it's last seen location... It's a major hindrance to the player.
(Bolded for emphasis)
If I am going to do harder content, and I am not sure about my gear I ask ahead, and start planning.
I look up builds ("Hack the Minotaur" is a great resource) and start figuring things out. And if I need crafted gear, I make it, BEFORE it becomes an issue. I do the best I can and with what resources I have available. And if I can't do it, I ask for help, again before it becomes an issue. You know, plan ahead...
I'm not talking about not knowing the gear you need, I always know what gear I need for whatever content. But when it comes up to do something and it suddenly comes up as something that's needed that you don't have, you got to acquire it and everyone has to wait on you. So at that point, then you start doing your "planning" that you keep talking about, but it doesn't change the fact that it was just sprung on you, and you gotta go get the gear right now while everyone's waiting on you...
Whether it's PvE or PvP, you're in a group, your group is min-maxing and you have to accommodate. You're already in the middle of doing content with them and you gotta go grab the suggested gear on the fly, the games system should allow you to find the gear and at the best deals immediately without having to waste time checking from trader to trader to find what you're looking for at a good deal because your money is already low.
You're completely disregarding that, like every player isn't batman that can prep for everything imaginable given the prep time. Even so that still requires a whole lot of prep time. Lol content changes, people take breaks from the game, and they could come back and be tossed right into the mix where they didn't have planning prep time. They have to make due with what the tools at hand. But this current trader system is a major hindrance...
No one should ever be waiting on you to get geared up.
Understand?
You are doing min-max type content, and you are preparing for it while doing it? That is just stunning.
What scenario are you describing? That your off playing ToT then suddenly your in a group of strangers doing vKA hard mode, they need you to heal and your a stam dps?
Or are you in mismatched greens and blues?
I mean if that is not the scenario then what are you doing exactly?
• I have a stam dps character as my main. I have a trial build for that character. They have food/potions ready to go. I actually have enough of those to share if needs be.
• I have a stam tank character, that one is appropriately trial geared. Again with food/potions.
• I have a magika dps character. Guess what? While they have never been in a trial, they should be fine.
• I don’t pvp that often in a group, but if I did I would have appropriate gear before doing it. If I am playing solo, then I just suffer through it.
• If they ask me to heal, I tell them I don’t have a geared healer. If in the future they do need me to heal I will work on it for next time. (This scenario has never come up luckily.)
(Btw I am NOT in a regular trial group, I am an alternate for a friends trial group.)
This is not being Batman. This is acknowledging that the particular content exists, I am willing to do it, and I am prepared for it.
And if you are truly doing cutting edge min/max content, a guild vendor will not save you. Most of the really great gear comes from trials, mythics, and dungeons. And that stuff is bound to the people doing it. The only gear you can possibly need from a guild vendor is overland gear sets that you don’t want to farm for yourself. (Crafted sets can be crafted, no need to buy.) I can’t think of a dungeon/trial set that drops that can be resold. I don’t think they exist.
Lastly, if a trial is kicking us around and we are not making headway, we step out, reset it, lower the difficulty and go back in.
Who stands around waiting for someone to gear themselves?
Once again, trials was an example as was pvpy. I definitely see it happen more often in PvP. Yes trial gear is definitely needed in most trials, dungeon gear, mythic gear, yes of course. Not always but most of the time yes. Trials gear is hardly ever used in PvP but some is. Crafted gear is often used in PvP, overland gear that can be bought is used in PvP as well, and so is mythic gear... It's all situational but it happens.
I've been a guild raid healer in Cyrodiil. In my experience, this business of waiting for players to buy recommended gear before we could ride out didn't happen. Once we were in Cyrodiil for raid night, we didn't leave until we were done because of the queues.
We ran specific builds. We helped our guildies buy
or farm for that gear. If the guild leaders needed someone to swap to different gear mid-raid, it was organized ahead of time so they had the gear on them to swap. If we needed a different character it was done at the start of raid before someone waited through the queues. If you found yourself unexpectedly short, someone else would lend you potions or poisons or some such (I remember sending extra mats to someone before raid so they could quick craft some), but we knew to come prepared and with our game faces on, so that was rare.
Maybe your PVP experience is different than mine, but in my guild, we planned ahead or rolled out with what we had.
I mean, I understand that some players find running to different traders annoying. Annoyance at inconvenience is a valid opinion. But there's a saying that I think neatly illustrates the folly of blaming the guild trader system for making other players wait on you while you shop: "Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."
It can be annoying without hyperbole.9 -
ZOS_IcymodGreetings,
We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.
Thank you for your understanding.1 -
King_Jude✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »Plan ahead? How does that help finding gear for a character?
Well you don't do this for a start.SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »A central auction house would blow up the economy and make it far worse than it already is in my opinion. The cost of everything would explode and the people who play ESO as kind of a practice for buying/selling stocks in the real world would end up with WAY too much influence. Better to make those players have to spend hours searching each vendor spread out all over the realm.
What about when you're money is low, but you gotta buy a set of gear from the traders, yet you're on a budget, also people are waiting on you so you guys can get going back to the content you were doing with your team. It's extremely redundant to have to search from trader to trader to find the best deals and to see if that item you can afford is still located as it's last seen location... It's a major hindrance to the player.
(Bolded for emphasis)
If I am going to do harder content, and I am not sure about my gear I ask ahead, and start planning.
I look up builds ("Hack the Minotaur" is a great resource) and start figuring things out. And if I need crafted gear, I make it, BEFORE it becomes an issue. I do the best I can and with what resources I have available. And if I can't do it, I ask for help, again before it becomes an issue. You know, plan ahead...
I'm not talking about not knowing the gear you need, I always know what gear I need for whatever content. But when it comes up to do something and it suddenly comes up as something that's needed that you don't have, you got to acquire it and everyone has to wait on you. So at that point, then you start doing your "planning" that you keep talking about, but it doesn't change the fact that it was just sprung on you, and you gotta go get the gear right now while everyone's waiting on you...
Whether it's PvE or PvP, you're in a group, your group is min-maxing and you have to accommodate. You're already in the middle of doing content with them and you gotta go grab the suggested gear on the fly, the games system should allow you to find the gear and at the best deals immediately without having to waste time checking from trader to trader to find what you're looking for at a good deal because your money is already low.
You're completely disregarding that, like every player isn't batman that can prep for everything imaginable given the prep time. Even so that still requires a whole lot of prep time. Lol content changes, people take breaks from the game, and they could come back and be tossed right into the mix where they didn't have planning prep time. They have to make due with what the tools at hand. But this current trader system is a major hindrance...
No one should ever be waiting on you to get geared up.
Understand?
You are doing min-max type content, and you are preparing for it while doing it? That is just stunning.
What scenario are you describing? That your off playing ToT then suddenly your in a group of strangers doing vKA hard mode, they need you to heal and your a stam dps?
Or are you in mismatched greens and blues?
I mean if that is not the scenario then what are you doing exactly?
• I have a stam dps character as my main. I have a trial build for that character. They have food/potions ready to go. I actually have enough of those to share if needs be.
• I have a stam tank character, that one is appropriately trial geared. Again with food/potions.
• I have a magika dps character. Guess what? While they have never been in a trial, they should be fine.
• I don’t pvp that often in a group, but if I did I would have appropriate gear before doing it. If I am playing solo, then I just suffer through it.
• If they ask me to heal, I tell them I don’t have a geared healer. If in the future they do need me to heal I will work on it for next time. (This scenario has never come up luckily.)
(Btw I am NOT in a regular trial group, I am an alternate for a friends trial group.)
This is not being Batman. This is acknowledging that the particular content exists, I am willing to do it, and I am prepared for it.
And if you are truly doing cutting edge min/max content, a guild vendor will not save you. Most of the really great gear comes from trials, mythics, and dungeons. And that stuff is bound to the people doing it. The only gear you can possibly need from a guild vendor is overland gear sets that you don’t want to farm for yourself. (Crafted sets can be crafted, no need to buy.) I can’t think of a dungeon/trial set that drops that can be resold. I don’t think they exist.
Lastly, if a trial is kicking us around and we are not making headway, we step out, reset it, lower the difficulty and go back in.
Who stands around waiting for someone to gear themselves?
Once again, trials was an example as was pvpy. I definitely see it happen more often in PvP. Yes trial gear is definitely needed in most trials, dungeon gear, mythic gear, yes of course. Not always but most of the time yes. Trials gear is hardly ever used in PvP but some is. Crafted gear is often used in PvP, overland gear that can be bought is used in PvP as well, and so is mythic gear... It's all situational but it happens.
I've been a guild raid healer in Cyrodiil. In my experience, this business of waiting for players to buy recommended gear before we could ride out didn't happen. Once we were in Cyrodiil for raid night, we didn't leave until we were done because of the queues.
We ran specific builds. We helped our guildies buy
or farm for that gear. If the guild leaders needed someone to swap to different gear mid-raid, it was organized ahead of time so they had the gear on them to swap. If we needed a different character it was done at the start of raid before someone waited through the queues. If you found yourself unexpectedly short, someone else would lend you potions or poisons or some such (I remember sending extra mats to someone before raid so they could quick craft some), but we knew to come prepared and with our game faces on, so that was rare.
Maybe your PVP experience is different than mine, but in my guild, we planned ahead or rolled out with what we had.
I mean, I understand that some players find running to different traders annoying. Annoyance at inconvenience is a valid opinion. But there's a saying that I think neatly illustrates the folly of blaming the guild trader system for making other players wait on you while you shop: "Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."
It can be annoying without hyperbole.
It's okay if it hasn't happened in your time of play, but you're disregarding that it happens. When I came to PC in March and got emperor as a low lvl before I reached CP, I've seen it happen many times during that play with the friends I made during that emperor run. Wasn't running with a guild just friends made during pvp, as people leveled, they left swapped/crafted/bought gear.
I've also seen it back on PlayStation, I have a few friends at CP I know in mind who would often do it. Just because your experience was different doesn't mean you can disregard another's experience. Lol1 -
King_Jude✭✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »I_killed_Vivec wrote: »To be honest, after reading through the whole thread it seems to me that the OP is coming from a position of "I don't want to pay those prices for the things I want", and has tried to redesign the way traders work so that he can get what he wants at the price that he wants to pay.
Traders? "Their point of view is not valid. How dare they ask for more than I want to pay?"
Farmers? "They enjoy what they do. My time is too precious to waste farming, but they should be thankful I pay them at all".
Undercutters? "I want a race to the bottom so I can get what I want for the least gold".
ZoS? "They should give me FF14".
Lol it's actually far more in depth than that, but I'd that's all you got from it. That's fine.
Lol, no, it's not a deep intellectual discussion of the economics of traders. That is all it boils down to. The two examples you give: holding up a trial while you shop around for the right gear (pants on fire - didn't prepare before? What did you need that you can buy? Not trials gear or mythics, they can't be sold); secondly, the cost of materials for housing.
You sound like a guy who rides past water hyacinth because you can't be bothered to pick it up, and then complains when I set the selling price for the flowers that I did pick.
The whole middle section of the thread was an argument about how best to farm gold, and how it wasn't worth your time so prices must come down, in part because you can't be bothered looking for a bargain. You even explained how you wanted a global price list to encourage undercutting to bring prices down, or as you call it "fair pricing". Fair for who?
P.S. You could have earned a few million (or the equivalent in mats) farming instead of arguing with every comment in this thread... probably a better way to get ahead:)
Lol hey listen, I'm definitely using my time wisely went from 2000cp to 2518cp just this current new life event, and I'm still going. I reply on my breaks or before I goto sleep. just been busy CP grinding.
Lol keep it civil, and hey, if you and others are frustrated by the post, you don't have to be here, you have the option to move on over to another thread instead of forcing yourself to be triggered. Nobody is forcing any of you who are getting upset to be here. Lol it's a nice friendly forum debating suggestions and opinions.0 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I spoke on how bidding wouldn't change... I only talked about improving the current system, not dismantling it. How you obtain a guild trader isn't what I want to change, the features that guild traders provide is what I want updated. We need more features. I've explained this. Gotta read the whole post.
Oh c'mon. You cannot be so naive!
Noone would be bidding on something that isn't special, but just like everything else. No trade guild would be bidding serious money on a spot.
A global market board is going to erase the need to bid beyond a certain very low level. The whole psychology of auctioning would be shattered.
There will be 50% to 80% less gold siphoned out of the system (my estimation), depending on how the main trader guilds adopt.
Nobody denies that the current system is inconvenient, but not so much that one couldn't deal with it with a little more effort.Edited by Zodiarkslayer on December 30, 2022 7:15PMNo Effort, No Reward?
No Reward, No Effort!2 -
King_Jude✭✭✭Zodiarkslayer wrote: »
I spoke on how bidding wouldn't change... I only talked about improving the current system, not dismantling it. How you obtain a guild trader isn't what I want to change, the features that guild traders provide is what I want updated. We need more features. I've explained this. Gotta read the whole post.
Oh c'mon. You cannot be so naive!
Noone would be bidding on something that isn't special, but just like everything else. No trade guild would be bidding serious money on a spot.
A global market board is going to erase the need to bid beyond a certain very low level. The whole psychology of auctioning would be shattered.
There will be 50% to 80% less gold siphoned out of the system (my estimation).
I think I understand your issue here... You keep bringing up bidding, and an auction house. But there's no form of bidding that you would do... You see an item, you purchase as you do now, you wouldn't have to bid for it, [snip]
Where's your basis on that percentage of less gold being siphoned out of the game?
[edited for minor baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 31, 2022 6:37PM1
This discussion has been closed.