Skoomah wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

...the game’s high proportion of content devoted to the single player experience the past several years has been detrimental to the majority of the player base.

As a mostly solo PvP player (when I played), I'm curious about all the solo content we've supposedly been flooded with. From my POV, lately every update is a few group dungeons and a new boring system that I'm not interested in.

Antiquities - Solo System, most items are discovered and dug up from a purely solo experience

Companions - Solo System, made specifically for people who normally would have to group for content to fill a role, but now have AI mimicking a real person

Tales of Tribute - Solo System, you can’t even talk to the opponent in party chat while a game is going on

Tons of Questing Content in new zones each year made for solo players specifically

… that’s three years in a row that every major system is made for solo players. You want more examples?

And just to be clear, I’m advocating for a better mix. Give us something for everyone instead of mainly content for solo players.

I guess I never considered those as group or solo, just boring. At least Antiquities farmed something useful. I just thought of it as being as boring as group dungeons, but solo.
I have to agree that all of those examples did nothing for those looking for group activities, and they did nothing for me either. The content of the last couple of years has been sorely lacking for a lot of reasons.

Yeah, I don't think the game is lacking in group play.... probably the only time I think Zenimax stepped on the toes of group players was when they removed group queue for BGs. Lots of people I know quit playing ESO because of that and I never got into BGs nearly as much even when they added it back because those friends didn't return (lowkey mad at myself I wasn't smart enough to get out earlier as well haha).... but those were people whose main interest was BGs; not trials, not vet dungeons, not IC, not Cyrodiil, and not even world bosses/events (like vents and harrowstorms, which are also group content).

Skoomah wrote: »

If you ask the ESO community why they log in everyday to play the game, many players will say it is because they get to play and hang with their friends. Even through disappointing changes, game breaking bugs, or even unplayable lag, many choose to log in to have a good time with their friends.

And considering most people I know are solo players the majority of the time haha I definitely have a different perspective on "many players".... but the part I bolded definitely are some of the main reasons why this game struggles to keep them. I also would say the fact that the chapters have gotten worse over the years and Zenimax continuing to refuse to give players features they actually ask for (they just ignore the playerbase in general, honestly) adds to it as well. I, my bestfriend, my entire social guild, and other people who I knew that still played even after the mess that was the Greymoor proc set meta and the so called vampire "update".... left because of those reasons, not lack of group content.

And I have a friend that I would farm antiquities with haha we also did dungeons together with our companions. I also have multiple friends I would even quest together with all the time even. I mean, I even have a couple friends that I decorate houses with haha but I do agree that ToT was a flop and they should have made you play out in the world instead of instancing you along with no chat. Also the fact that you don't get rewards for playing people face to face really killed the social aspect of it. All the excuses saying "then people would abuse it to get rewards" is just nonsense too because they are trash rewards usually anyway and who really cares, honestly. My main point though, I think a lot of the content is what you make of it.

SilverBride wrote: »

You can chat while playing ToT. It minimizes the chat box when the game starts but you can click the arrow and open it again.

Oh, okay haha definitely don't play it enough to know and was going off what the other person said about not being able to talk in party chat during it? Like I said, I wouldn't know firsthand how that works haha but still doesn't fix the other issues of ToT.

I'm surprised by all the anti-group comments. We all start out as solo players, typically playing through the main quests as well as overland and guild quests, but I would have thought most have some friends or guilds they play with if they've been around a while. What do long-term solo players do? A few hours of new quests every 6 months does not seem like enough, and you can only do solo arenas so many times before they become dull. Some do housing, but I don't imagine that being much fun without friends or guildies to show. Writs and other daily quests seem like a mind-numbing activity to be repeating thousands of times.

I guess I figured that most multi-year players had some community engagement, and that a majority of them would be doing some form of end game group content: Cyrodiil, IC, BG's, dungeons, arenas or trials (normal or vet). I'm sure I'd be long gone if ESO had only solo content, or best case would play for about a week after a new expansion launch.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I'm surprised by all the anti-group comments. We all start out as solo players, typically playing through the main quests as well as overland and guild quests, but I would have thought most have some friends or guilds they play with if they've been around a while. What do long-term solo players do? A few hours of new quests every 6 months does not seem like enough, and you can only do solo arenas so many times before they become dull. Some do housing, but I don't imagine that being much fun without friends or guildies to show. Writs and other daily quests seem like a mind-numbing activity to be repeating thousands of times.

I guess I figured that most multi-year players had some community engagement, and that a majority of them would be doing some form of end game group content: Cyrodiil, IC, BG's, dungeons, arenas or trials (normal or vet). I'm sure I'd be long gone if ESO had only solo content, or best case would play for about a week after a new expansion launch.

Whole lot of assumptions here. Who says we don't do any of that? Forced grouping is a huge difference to choosing to group. Who says our guilds don't enjoy our homes, and us theirs? I usually solo cyro when I'm in the mood for PVP but may join a pick up group from time to time. Soloing dungeons is a favorite challenge of mine when there is no ridiculous mechanic preventing it. Today I bit the bullet (on a subject I'm STILL SALTY ABOUT) and decided to fill my sticker book on maelstrom perfected weapons(still have a few to go). We do houses, we do dungeons, we do stickerbooks, and we do social activities. We just appreciate a game that we can accomplish things without having to hold everyone's hands just to step past the newbie yard like EQ classic was for me. I'd actually go so far to say with our housing decorations, goofy outfit/styles and whatever we like to show off ATM we may just be a LOT more social than many groups/BG's I've been in where the other players don't say a single word.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I'm surprised by all the anti-group comments. We all start out as solo players, typically playing through the main quests as well as overland and guild quests, but I would have thought most have some friends or guilds they play with if they've been around a while. What do long-term solo players do? A few hours of new quests every 6 months does not seem like enough, and you can only do solo arenas so many times before they become dull. Some do housing, but I don't imagine that being much fun without friends or guildies to show. Writs and other daily quests seem like a mind-numbing activity to be repeating thousands of times.

I guess I figured that most multi-year players had some community engagement, and that a majority of them would be doing some form of end game group content: Cyrodiil, IC, BG's, dungeons, arenas or trials (normal or vet). I'm sure I'd be long gone if ESO had only solo content, or best case would play for about a week after a new expansion launch.

I don't see anti-group comments, I see pro-solo comments, and that's not the same. For the record: you can also solo (dlc) dungeons, world bosses, etc.

Snamyap wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I'm surprised by all the anti-group comments. We all start out as solo players, typically playing through the main quests as well as overland and guild quests, but I would have thought most have some friends or guilds they play with if they've been around a while. What do long-term solo players do? A few hours of new quests every 6 months does not seem like enough, and you can only do solo arenas so many times before they become dull. Some do housing, but I don't imagine that being much fun without friends or guildies to show. Writs and other daily quests seem like a mind-numbing activity to be repeating thousands of times.

I guess I figured that most multi-year players had some community engagement, and that a majority of them would be doing some form of end game group content: Cyrodiil, IC, BG's, dungeons, arenas or trials (normal or vet). I'm sure I'd be long gone if ESO had only solo content, or best case would play for about a week after a new expansion launch.

I don't see anti-group comments, I see pro-solo comments, and that's not the same. For the record: you can also solo (dlc) dungeons, world bosses, etc.

Won't be checking out them again (not as toxic-proof as i used to) but there absolutely were "anti" ones if not being moderated already.

Craglorn attempted this. Craglorn didn't really do so well.

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

If you ask the ESO community why they log in everyday to play the game, many players will say it is because they get to play and hang with their friends.

Source for that assertion, please? If it's just "the players I talk to," that's a tiny minority of ESO players.

The moment this game focuses on group content, I'm gone. We have a good balance of group vs. solo content right now. No need to rock the boat.

Why play an MMO if you don't have any interest in grouping with other players? There are 100's of other games that focus on casual solo questing out there to choose from.

Well, that is ESO's player base. Why should they suddenly try to make the game the opposite of why people play it at the moment?

ESO was unusual in that a lot of its players came from people who wanted to scratch their Elder Scrolls itch while waiting for ES6. Presumably, they still do. And while some aspects of the game design are utterly bizarre given that it has a heavy load of solo players (most obviously the guild-gated trading system), they've done reasonably well on the whole at understanding who their players are and are not.

It's the people trying to make ESO exclusively a solo endeavor that are trying to make the game something other than what it was designed to be, as I stated in the post just above this one.

...I sincerely wish they had never introduced housing and encouraged all this focus on things other than the great combat that ESO used to be famous for.

When ESO launched, it was a total disaster, so much so that extra money had to be poured in to fix it rather than write the whole thing off. I'm not clear that people are trying to make ESO exclusively a solo endeavour, but I really doubt that more group content than is produced at the moment is where the player base is. It might be where *this forum* is, but the split of players on here is so conspicuously different from anywhere else that the forum view will always struggle to provide a representative feel for what players actually think on pretty much anything.

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

In relation to this core motivation to play the game, the game’s high proportion of content devoted to the single player experience the past several years has been detrimental to the majority of the player base. People log into ESO for the multiplayer experience. There are vastly better single player RPG experiences out there. If ESO wishes to retain players, the content should encourage making new friends and the stickiness that comes with the network effect.

Disagree. Historically, ES has always been a single/solo player experience, based in story and lore, and I'm willing to bet that the vast majority come to ESO expecting to play that way, even if it is an mmo. The fact they can form groups or pvp is an interesting new feature to them, which most likely don't invest much time to. Speaking for myself, I have zero interest in "organised" groups or pvp, I'm just here to solo everything that's soloable and enjoy the stories. As for interacting with other players - voice/text chat is turned off, duel/ToT challenges are turned off etc, that's my level of interest in the player communication side of things. In fact, I wish there was a setting to turn off other players, not just their pets etc, but alas, that will never happen.

Yeah, but ESO does not equal ES. They added that O and PvP, so PvP was always intended to be a large portion of the game play. PvP is now and always has been one of the primary end game activities. That's how the game was designed. There are literally 100's of solo questing games out there. No need to change what ESO was made to be when you can just play one of those other solo games.

Many here have stated that ESO has a good balance. OP stated that the company should instead focus more on social aspects as that's what the players want rather than solo activities in which OP claimed was detrimental to the success of ESO like it was fact rather than opinion. The O in ESO merely means online, and many of us jump into pvp solo, no grouping so unsure of your point here.

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

Skoomah wrote: »

If you ask the ESO community why they log in everyday to play the game, many players will say it is because they get to play and hang with their friends.

Source for that assertion, please? If it's just "the players I talk to," that's a tiny minority of ESO players.

The moment this game focuses on group content, I'm gone. We have a good balance of group vs. solo content right now. No need to rock the boat.

Why play an MMO if you don't have any interest in grouping with other players? There are 100's of other games that focus on casual solo questing out there to choose from.

Well, that is ESO's player base. Why should they suddenly try to make the game the opposite of why people play it at the moment?

ESO was unusual in that a lot of its players came from people who wanted to scratch their Elder Scrolls itch while waiting for ES6. Presumably, they still do. And while some aspects of the game design are utterly bizarre given that it has a heavy load of solo players (most obviously the guild-gated trading system), they've done reasonably well on the whole at understanding who their players are and are not.

It's the people trying to make ESO exclusively a solo endeavor that are trying to make the game something other than what it was designed to be, as I stated in the post just above this one.

...I sincerely wish they had never introduced housing and encouraged all this focus on things other than the great combat that ESO used to be famous for.

It's the people trying to make ESO exclusively a grouping, must have a team stapled to your rear end to do anything game that are trying to make the game something other than what it was designed to be.

I sincerely wish they had never introduced trials that encouraged all this focus on things other than the great experiences that ESO used to be famous for. (I was here before housing/cash shop and seem to recall many of us collecting motifs and polymorphs/costumes)

ESO is in a good balance. You can solo or group as you wish. Pvp or build a house. Join a trial group or practice to solo a vet dungeon. THATS what ESO was designed to be, choice. Options for everyone. Have a wonderful day.

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Nobody's trying to say ESO should be mandatory grouping content. People are only saying to bring back some of the focus to group content rather than going down a road that only promotes the casual PvE experience, as they are doing now.

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

4 DLC dungeons and a new trial per year for the last four years isn't like group content has been ignored.

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Not once did you mention PvP when the three banners war was always advertised as being one of the primary end game activities.

If you're referring to me and my posts, 2 out of 3 previous posts (3 out of 4 now) mentioned pvp. As much as the "king of the hill" crab mentality nerf calling and performance issues disgust me over the years, I'm a huge defender of pvp, which many of my posts show.

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

It's the people trying to make ESO exclusively a solo endeavor

Nobody in this thread has said that ESO should be exclusively a solo endeavor.
I've never seen anyone on the forum say that, even.

SilverBride wrote: »

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Nobody's trying to say ESO should be mandatory grouping content. People are only saying to bring back some of the focus to group content rather than going down a road that only promotes the casual PvE experience, as they are doing now.

They are going down the road that most players are traveling on.

They can promote all kinds of group content but I still won't be interested in it. I like to play how I want to play when I want to play it. Group content such as trials usually requires the player to be available on set days and times and that just doesn't work for a lot of players.

This is the real sticking point with content that requires a group. It's not just a casual thing doing a vet trial, or even a normal trial. People need to schedule those activities and that alone guarantees lower participation than content that can be completed relatively quickly with a random group or content like PvP that can be popped into for a little bit now and then.
ZoS is going to favor content that's as inclusive as possible (unless it's PvP...zos will forever ignore that)

SilverBride wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I'm surprised by all the anti-group comments. We all start out as solo players, typically playing through the main quests as well as overland and guild quests, but I would have thought most have some friends or guilds they play with if they've been around a while. What do long-term solo players do? A few hours of new quests every 6 months does not seem like enough, and you can only do solo arenas so many times before they become dull. Some do housing, but I don't imagine that being much fun without friends or guildies to show. Writs and other daily quests seem like a mind-numbing activity to be repeating thousands of times.

I guess I figured that most multi-year players had some community engagement, and that a majority of them would be doing some form of end game group content: Cyrodiil, IC, BG's, dungeons, arenas or trials (normal or vet). I'm sure I'd be long gone if ESO had only solo content, or best case would play for about a week after a new expansion launch.

I find it very presumptuous to assume that people who play solo don't have any friends. I have a lot of friends in game and am active in my guild.

I am currently working on finishing every quest in every zone on my 4th character which has taken over a year so far and I'm still not finished. And when there are new Chapters and DLCs I complete them on all my characters.

I have also decorated 21 houses and am sure there will be more, and me and my friends are always checking out each other's homes offering advice and stealing each other's good ideas. And all my homes are listed as open houses with the EHT community so others can visit them any time they wish.

A few times I've done Dragonstar Arena with a friend to level our Companions, or run back to back Fungal Grotto for endeavors because it goes faster when we pair up. I've also recently run around Cyrodiil with a friend and had a lot of fun. But in general I just don't care for activities that require groups.

Enjoying playing my game my own way in my own time does not make me antisocial and friendless.

@SilverBride I think we have a misunderstanding here. If you are active in guilds and playing with friends, doing Dragonstar, Fungal Grotto or housing, that is not solo play by my definition. That is the type of repeatable group content we need more of. It is these activities that make the game strong.

I'm happy with the recent statement that the devs will focus less on solo quests and more on repeatable content. Hopefully this means fun group activities and not more daily grinds like writs and guild quests.