VaranisArano wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If you just quest, you'll be like my AD character, who finished her alliance zones with roughly 300k gold in the bank, IIRC. So, practically broke when you hit CP 160 and start looking at upgrading to gold materials.

Funnily enough, that's actually not a bad chunk of gold on Playstation for getting gear.

Let's say an newbie wanted to use fully crafted gear for their gear. Let's also say they have a guildmate that will craft it for them and make it purple for free, but they will need to provide the silk and gold mats. As that is a pretty typical occurrence on Playstation, at least in all the guilds I have been in.

So the newbie decides they want to use Mother's Sorrow and Order's Wrath or Julianos. That's also a fairly common setup I've seen requested for beginning magicka damage dealers in zone/guild chat, at least when it comes to the people who were vocal about asking straight away.

So....

Robe = 150 silk
Shoes = 130 silk
Bracers= 130 silk
Guards = 140 silk
Belt = 130 silk

Hat = 130 silk
Shoulders = 130 silk

940 total silk, typically someone will just buy 5 stacks. At 8,000 coins per stack that is 40k.

I see some Mother's Sorrow weapons on the guild trader for 25k right now, and some jewelry pieces for 25k. That's 125k.

So now their bill is 165k.

They can get Rosin for around 3k each. They need 16. That's another 48k. That's 213k all together to have full purple crafted gear with gold weapons, which is a fairly standard order.

If the guildmate doesn't offer the upgrades to purple....

I see a full stack of hemming for 2900 coins. That's 14.5 coins per hemming. That's 203 coins for the hemming.
I see a full stack of Embroider for 5000 coins. That's 25 coins per embroidery. That's 525 coins for the embroidery
I see a full stack of Elegant Lining for 9400 coins. That's 47 coins per lining. That's 1316 coins for the lining.

You can see why people often offer this free in guilds. That's a lot of time wasted doing math for very little coins LOL. Some people also just ask for a flat 2-3k.

That's an extra 2044 coin for the upgrade mats to purple. So that's around 215k coins altogether for a fully equipped character.

In other words, if they fairly typical help from a guild mate, they would have enough coin to get everything they needed to start playing their toon in beginner vet dungeons just from questing (assuming your 300k ish coin value is correct about the quest rewards) including gold weapons.

Gold Jewelry on the other hand is a different matter. Many people on here consider it too expensive to be worth it unless you're an endgame player.

Nice! Yeah, even on PC, my first guild would make purple gear free for lower level players, or for CP 160 if you provided the mats.

And while gold upgrade mats might be more expensive, it's not necessarily a bad thing. The first gear I golded was my early Whitestrake's Retribution set, which I promptly outgrew as I got better at tanking. I still have those pieces for nostalgia's sake...

Anyways, I digress. It's also really easy to defray the costs of crafted gear by farming one's own materials or doing crafting writs, which goes to show that it's pretty accessible even to newer players without much gold. My AD character didn't farm much. My main crafted her own gear as she leveled up (we'll not talk about the white cotton on the white snow of Eastmarch) and so was pretty well prepared for heading into dungeons when I decided to try it out.

It may be my biases showing here, but it seems to me that players who experience the most problems are the ones who refuse to engage in ESO's support systems, be it helpful guilds or spending their limited time doing activities like crafting and farming their own materials. I understand there are players who never ever want to join guilds, but they are cutting themselves off from a valuable source of help. Trying to be self-sufficient is possible, but naturally harder.

I don't really believe that joining guilds is the problem as most players that's established in the game usually always have 5 guild slots, even when leaving one, they immediately join another. I have two trading guilds on PC, a housing guild, a guild my friend asked me to join to assist newer players, and my own which is a pvp guild.

When it comes to selling materials, I don't sell mine, I'm more of the material buyer as I'm into player housing, have a guild hall of my own for my guild mates, and I make PvP builds to give away to players especially within my guild, I test these builds first hand too to make sure each build is viable.

PvPing gold acquisition can be fairly decent if you're buying and selling gold jewelry of worth... Or if you happen to "luckily" acquire a piece of gear with selling while the vast majority of pieces of gear you collect aren't worth selling on the traders as the worth of the item is so minuscule. Let alone how long items actually sit on the traders. For example the gold mara's balm ring I placed on the guild trader at the standard ttc rate didn't even sell, it just went through the whole 30 days and i got it back in the mail.

I'm definitely not new to buying and selling, it's just that ESOs trading system is extremely underwhelming compared to most...

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If you just quest, you'll be like my AD character, who finished her alliance zones with roughly 300k gold in the bank, IIRC. So, practically broke when you hit CP 160 and start looking at upgrading to gold materials.

Funnily enough, that's actually not a bad chunk of gold on Playstation for getting gear.

Let's say an newbie wanted to use fully crafted gear for their gear. Let's also say they have a guildmate that will craft it for them and make it purple for free, but they will need to provide the silk and gold mats. As that is a pretty typical occurrence on Playstation, at least in all the guilds I have been in.

So the newbie decides they want to use Mother's Sorrow and Order's Wrath or Julianos. That's also a fairly common setup I've seen requested for beginning magicka damage dealers in zone/guild chat, at least when it comes to the people who were vocal about asking straight away.

So....

Robe = 150 silk
Shoes = 130 silk
Bracers= 130 silk
Guards = 140 silk
Belt = 130 silk

Hat = 130 silk
Shoulders = 130 silk

940 total silk, typically someone will just buy 5 stacks. At 8,000 coins per stack that is 40k.

I see some Mother's Sorrow weapons on the guild trader for 25k right now, and some jewelry pieces for 25k. That's 125k.

So now their bill is 165k.

They can get Rosin for around 3k each. They need 16. That's another 48k. That's 213k all together to have full purple crafted gear with gold weapons, which is a fairly standard order.

If the guildmate doesn't offer the upgrades to purple....

I see a full stack of hemming for 2900 coins. That's 14.5 coins per hemming. That's 203 coins for the hemming.
I see a full stack of Embroider for 5000 coins. That's 25 coins per embroidery. That's 525 coins for the embroidery
I see a full stack of Elegant Lining for 9400 coins. That's 47 coins per lining. That's 1316 coins for the lining.

You can see why people often offer this free in guilds. That's a lot of time wasted doing math for very little coins LOL. Some people also just ask for a flat 2-3k.

That's an extra 2044 coin for the upgrade mats to purple. So that's around 215k coins altogether for a fully equipped character.

In other words, if they fairly typical help from a guild mate, they would have enough coin to get everything they needed to start playing their toon in beginner vet dungeons just from questing (assuming your 300k ish coin value is correct about the quest rewards) including gold weapons.

Gold Jewelry on the other hand is a different matter. Many people on here consider it too expensive to be worth it unless you're an endgame player.

Nice! Yeah, even on PC, my first guild would make purple gear free for lower level players, or for CP 160 if you provided the mats.

And while gold upgrade mats might be more expensive, it's not necessarily a bad thing. The first gear I golded was my early Whitestrake's Retribution set, which I promptly outgrew as I got better at tanking. I still have those pieces for nostalgia's sake...

Anyways, I digress. It's also really easy to defray the costs of crafted gear by farming one's own materials or doing crafting writs, which goes to show that it's pretty accessible even to newer players without much gold. My AD character didn't farm much. My main crafted her own gear as she leveled up (we'll not talk about the white cotton on the white snow of Eastmarch) and so was pretty well prepared for heading into dungeons when I decided to try it out.

It may be my biases showing here, but it seems to me that players who experience the most problems are the ones who refuse to engage in ESO's support systems, be it helpful guilds or spending their limited time doing activities like crafting and farming their own materials. I understand there are players who never ever want to join guilds, but they are cutting themselves off from a valuable source of help. Trying to be self-sufficient is possible, but naturally harder.

The final statement is completely wrong.

Getting simple stuff from guildmates is trivial, but that is not the problem. Finding something on a guild trader is the challenge, even with TTC.

I completely agree with this... I have two traders even when I'm grinding pvp selling pvp loot for proper gold acquisition I find it difficult to fill up both traders all the way if I can even fill up one with items that's worth selling that's worth my time. Lol

When your money's low and you're trying to find things on TTC for a good deal It sucks that you have to travel from trader to trader to find what you're looking for just to find out that it's already gone.

Amottica wrote: »

The first premise or point is merely an opinion from people who want the current system to be like games such as FF14. Considering a large volume of trade occurs daily and has been for years, the current trade system is working. Because of that fact, these occasional threads wanting something different have failed to change the system. It will not happen anytime soon.

I wouldn't say the current system is working if this is a reoccurring topic from players who're frustrated enough to join the forums to speak up verses so many players who's never once even came to the forums that feel the same way. So many players are broke.

Those earlier comments about questing for a week
or maybe even longer if people are speed questing their way through it to complete all the zones for a measly 300k is a joke. 1mill a week is also a joke. The crazy thing to me is, I ask players in game verses hearing opinions in this forum and the responses are different. Different ends of the spectrum really.

King_*** wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The first premise or point is merely an opinion from people who want the current system to be like games such as FF14. Considering a large volume of trade occurs daily and has been for years, the current trade system is working. Because of that fact, these occasional threads wanting something different have failed to change the system. It will not happen anytime soon.

I wouldn't say the current system is working if this is a reoccurring topic from players who're frustrated enough to join the forums to speak up verses so many players who's never once even came to the forums that feel the same way. So many players are broke.

People create threads all the time to express their opinion, just as you have. That is not an indication of something working or not working. And an occasionally recurring topic is not even an indicator that most players want the change. It merely means some are of a particular opinion which is not a reason for a change.

King_*** wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The first premise or point is merely an opinion from people who want the current system to be like games such as FF14. Considering a large volume of trade occurs daily and has been for years, the current trade system is working. Because of that fact, these occasional threads wanting something different have failed to change the system. It will not happen anytime soon.

I wouldn't say the current system is working if this is a reoccurring topic from players who're frustrated enough to join the forums to speak up verses so many players who's never once even came to the forums that feel the same way. So many players are broke.

Those earlier comments about questing for a week
or maybe even longer if people are speed questing their way through it to complete all the zones for a measly 300k is a joke. 1mill a week is also a joke. The crazy thing to me is, I ask players in game verses hearing opinions in this forum and the responses are different. Different ends of the spectrum really.

Here is my question to you then and it's an honest one. What exactly are you spending your gold on? And yes I am trying to be genuine here.

You see I spend a set amount of hours playing eso and I make millions doing in game activities including selling. Roughly 50% of what I make goes to guilds for traders. The remaining? I hold onto it. I still have millions. So tell me where are you spending your funds?

Because to be perfectly honest the system you are wont make that problem go away. Really it could just make it worse.

Sure undercutting could happen the way you want, but that won't stop people from playing the trading game. Especially if you lower the costs of traders because then comes the fun part. Guilds have excess coin which means they can mess with that coin.

With competition reduced via your method the second largest recurring gold sink gets removed from the game, without a way to offset it.


You also have this thing called the craft bag. Where near infinite amounts of places to store mats. Sure 1 player probably couldn't manipulate the market enough to do anything, but 500 - 2500 all with craft bags could in fact do so. Especially if they locked down certian market places.

The core problem is that there is an assumption that a small part of the overall economy isn't working. And you may be correct in that it isn't. But making wide sweeping changes to just one aspect of it.

Really at issue is progression. Eso is vertical progression until cp 1200 or so. At that point it's more about gearing up and horizontal progression.

This means that zos wants players to grind for it. It's core to the game.

Amottica wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The first premise or point is merely an opinion from people who want the current system to be like games such as FF14. Considering a large volume of trade occurs daily and has been for years, the current trade system is working. Because of that fact, these occasional threads wanting something different have failed to change the system. It will not happen anytime soon.

I wouldn't say the current system is working if this is a reoccurring topic from players who're frustrated enough to join the forums to speak up verses so many players who's never once even came to the forums that feel the same way. So many players are broke.

People create threads all the time to express their opinion, just as you have. That is not an indication of something working or not working. And an occasionally recurring topic is not even an indicator that most players want the change. It merely means some are of a particular opinion which is not a reason for a change.

It is a clear indication that it is not working for enough people to regularly get threads on it.

It is of course functioning, but that is different than "working well".

Lots of stuff sells, but it is incredibly hard to find things you want at their normal price, clear with TTC. Even more so on consoles. But some profit from the hassles of the current system and many of those are active on the forums.

Many of us are disgusted by it, even if we have made money on it.

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.

The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.

So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.

Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.

I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.

Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,

I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.

That's absolutely false but humor me this, how much money can you consistently make in an hour as profit and elder scrolls online and what exactly are you doing to make that cash? what are you selling?

You look at it from the wrong side. It is not false that you can easily afford everything you need just by playing the game. It isn't how much you make an hour but how much gold you need. You might be confusing want with need. You don't need gold gear until you are ready to start running vet trials and DLC dungeons. By the time you need the gold gear you have plenty of gold or supplies to either buy or make your own.
Players confuse want with need quite often. With the current market system most players can get everything the need and most of what they want. The market is strong, fluid and vibrant. It ebb and flows with supply and demand as any healthy market would. And the most important thing is changing to a central type of system would only compound the problems you are looking to address.
As others have stated it isn't about how much can be made in an hour. That will always vary some in this game and that isn't a bad thing at all. Farming gear sometimes you get lucky and get the choice weapon with the preferred trait first run. Other times it may take many runs. For consistent and steady income crafting is the way to go. You won't build up a huge surplus of gold but you can keep yourself in good gear the the desired foods/potions easily enough.
I used to make a lot of gold by doing master writs, purchasing furniture plans with the vouchers then selling those plans. Then because I had a ton of AP I started purchasing things with AP then selling them for gold. Just playing at what I enjoyed I amassed a bit of a fortune.
I am in a guild that gets a trader maybe once every two months. It isn't in a prime location but during that one week I can usually come in with over seven million gold. Again that is just by doing things I find fun. I don't go out looking for gold or for items to sell. It just happens as I play the game.

I digress, however this is your idea of making a fortune, playing the game beating the game through various questing and slow pay and compiling up all your saving calling it a good sum of gold, but you can't even buy yourself basic necessities for more than one character. Also you're under the implication of 300K being a lot of money which is not a lot of money in elder scrolls online. You also feel like making a million gold a week is a good rate of income in a game elder scrolls online. Compared to what the average product cost in elder scrolls online and the things that you need for the high prices especially on PC you'll be running out of money so fast every time.

I create PvP builds collecting different sets of gear takes time and money by the way you play, you might take a year to gear out each character effectively when you should have been able to do it within that hour. I personally think your defense is that you like taking the game extremely slow, and you'd like everyone else to play as you do as if people aren't supposed to have different play style and goals other than the types that you have.

That's fine that you don't farm gold specifically for income, but a lot of people farm gold for income to purchase what they want. Farming for gold for general income in ESO is a very slow rate to other MMORPGs due to the way the economy is setup and that's the main point I'm getting at.

I didn't mention 300K at all. Must be a number you invented. When account wide achievements became a thing I started playing a new character on the EU server so I could have one character do achievements without help from other characters. I only have the one character. I've never had a problem purchasing something I need. I easily got the gear I wanted once I hit 160 other than the monster set I want because I'm not doing the harder vet DLC yet. I don't play that account often yet I still have decent gear for PvE and PvP. PvP could use some help but that isn't from a lack of gold.

I said you can get the gold for the stuff you need just by playing the game. If you hit the dolman circle or otherwise grind XP of course you will be short gold when you get to 160. You've concentrated on express XP and that means less opportunity to make gold.
On my main account I have 18 characters with 16 of them being fully outfitted for PvP and PvE. My Templar has six different builds meaning at least eight sets of armor/weapons/jewelry. A couple of my characters don't have jewelry golded out for every set but other than that all is gold.
I've never made it a point to grind for gold. That said I have every home in the game that can be bought with gold, my characters are well outfitted, I've bought crowns with gold for upgrades, assistants and assorted stuff and have over fifty million gold on hand. I have an abundance of AP and Tel Var I can convert to gold if I wish. Last time my trial guild got a trader I made seven million gold that week selling style motifs I was sitting on and materials. That was without replenishing in a timely manner as items sold. Next time we get a trader I have enough Perfect Roe, Chromium and other materials to easily do that again with no effort.

We are going off on a tangent though. If the problem is a lack of gold switching to a central system is not going to fix the problem. It will make the problem much worse. And it still remains a new player can get everything they need in the game and a good chunk of what they want just by playing the game. There is no need to gold things out until you are ready to settle on a final build. Food and potions you get from the daily rewards will work great until you are ready to start doing end game content and then the food and potions you need are really affordable.

It can get expensive always chasing the META but chasing the META is a want not a need and I've clearly said you can afford what you need.

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

The first premise or point is merely an opinion from people who want the current system to be like games such as FF14. Considering a large volume of trade occurs daily and has been for years, the current trade system is working. Because of that fact, these occasional threads wanting something different have failed to change the system. It will not happen anytime soon.

I wouldn't say the current system is working if this is a reoccurring topic from players who're frustrated enough to join the forums to speak up verses so many players who's never once even came to the forums that feel the same way. So many players are broke.

People create threads all the time to express their opinion, just as you have. That is not an indication of something working or not working. And an occasionally recurring topic is not even an indicator that most players want the change. It merely means some are of a particular opinion which is not a reason for a change.

It is a clear indication that it is not working for enough people to regularly get threads on it.

It is of course functioning, but that is different than "working well".

Lots of stuff sells, but it is incredibly hard to find things you want at their normal price, clear with TTC. Even more so on consoles. But some profit from the hassles of the current system and many of those are active on the forums.

Many of us are disgusted by it, even if we have made money on it.

Preach!🫂

TaSheen wrote: »

The system here is only "underwhelming" for those who want to swoop in, make a killing and go caroling into the night with a lot of gold.

Not exactly but if your interest isn't gold, then why feel so strongly about the system? If it changed, it shouldn't necessarily matter to you because gold isn't your focus.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

Okay as true as that can be about the friend list or guild list. The forums doesn't exactly apply to the whole player base when such a small percent of players compared to the whole player base is actually on the forums. So we're in the same boat there...

Correct. So nobody is in a position to claim the vast majority quit for that reason. The general sentiment expressed online though does not cite being broke as a reason for quitting.

King_*** wrote: »

Lol people have the time to play games, people just don't have time to acquire gold through the slow accumulative methods you're suggesting as they're far too slow...

You wanted something to grind for gold per hour instead of making money through trade. Those are good activities for that. You have to know what to target to make real money stealing.

King_*** wrote: »

On the contrary I am focusing on the purchasing power of the coin. As a housing enthusiast buying the basic mats are quite expensive. Making one item when you probably need hundreds of that one item but that one item requires a material that costs 1.5k each and requires like 30 of that individual material, not including the other materials needed and their costs really adds up. You can ask housing guilds about what they think of material costs. The coins buying power is far too little. I personally think your opinion is biased cause you're simply basing it on your own casual play style.

You clearly aren't because you stated that PC makes more. Coin on PC has a higher numeric value, but a lower purchasing power. You get less stuff for the same amount of coin.

You suggestions of thieving and antiquities doesn't fit my requirement as the rate is too slow and not of worth.

So fish or farm hides.

I think you're confused. Because you keep completely disregarding the players that do quit for that reason as indonhave testimonies of players saying such. But I digress.

I think you're also confused about grinding making a 1m an hour because it's still through trade as you have to sell your goods when your done. It's the trade afterwards that also makes selling your hood difficult because the current trade system isn't good. Let alone the products you can farm to sell for a decent hourly profit. You've gotta admit that stealing for money won't yield you a desirable fast profit as it will be extremely slow gold acquisition.

Also that's still not true, yes PC gold has slightly less value but that also depends on the product as gear on PC are the same prices as they are on console, so buying gear is a lot easier on PC. So products on the market are the same price as console so PC players have a farm easier time of acquiring the same items as console players. But that solely depends on the product.

Again your generalizing without giving actual numbers and facts. Give me some actual data. Stealing for a nice bonus that offers big money isn't telling me how much big money and a bonus is. Lol also it isn't giving me an actual rate of how much you can earn at a steady rate.

You're still disregarding that some prices of some times are the same on both console and PC making PCs buying power stronger essentially...

But you've yet to answer the question if money is so unimportant in this game. Why feel so strongly about this topic and that the economy needs to change. Essentially you'd be unaffected as that you're not motivated by money as you hardly have a use for it right?

Okay, you know of a player who made purely 300m thieving doing nothing else for cash. But you can't tell me how long it took them to make it... 👌🏾 That's not even worth mentioning then. Also that's just one player...

Yes thing a generally cheaper on console as we already established that. But that doesn't make the current system good.

You stated that money isn't a need in eso several times. That essentially the same thing. Consoles economy isn't healthy. And I literally told you i play on both platforms. PC and PlayStation. Lol I know the best of both worlds as I've personally experienced it and have several buddies who's experienced the same thing.

Actually the reason that this form has had very few complaints is because the average player are not on the forums and you can't begin to debate that...

To even get in the forums in this particular game is a hassle where you have to be invited in.

It's common that people in game will talk about how dissatisfied they are with the unhealthy economy system that eso has.

It's very understanding that you don't see these very same players in the forms as most players don't use forms which is a huge issue I understand that but it is what it is.

King_*** wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.

The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.

So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.

Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.

I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.

Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,

I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.

That's absolutely false but humor me this, how much money can you consistently make in an hour as profit and elder scrolls online and what exactly are you doing to make that cash? what are you selling?

All my toons have Jewelry lv50, so any intricate drops from the writs go on the free market All upgrade mats that I do not need. Surplus items with value, like hot overland drops in good traits Companion gear in purple Valuable stuff from all kinds of dailies Or high value ingredients for potion making, like corn flower, for example I even sell repair kits, because I get a free stack of 200 every week from writs [\list] A million per week is always possible and I am not even farming the valuable stuff, like the latest furnishing recipes or anything that is rare, valuable and in demand.

I gotcha, a million a week. But what do you make an hour guaranteed? If you decided you wanted to make some money, how much can you make an hour at a guaranteed rate that does not involve carries?

Carries? I play SOLO now, always.
Please do not insinuate anything. That keeps the forum civil. 🤨

The gold per hour thinking is not fitting to measure your success. ☝️
That thinking is totally 2010. 😂
The return in gold is often not happening straight away. I mean, it is not gold drops we are talking about, that make the profit.

You should look up your total income per week. Or even better per month.
Sales are often better at weekends, because of more population. And grinding is easier during graveyard time in the week, mondays to thursdays, because of a lot less population. You've got to bring these two together.
If not, you are just lying to yourself by creating a random and misleading number.

Gold per hour... 😞

And the true Masters of commerce know when to sell and when to keep/store.
You do not want to sell at low prices when you can expect them to rise again in the near future. Or at/before events. Good traders know that and utilise ESOplus, Alt accounts, storage mules and the craftbag to maximise storage and profit respectively.

And all these can be pruchased with RL money, which is why I see that critically. It's unlikely to change and I've made my peace with that.
But still, one can purchase himself an advantage, if one desires it.

And btw, that one million is considered "not even trying" in many trading guilds. It really comes in almost passively.
The GM of a partner guild made 300 millions in the first week of Zeal of Zenithar event. I am not kidding. He's very public about it. You can easily find him on YouTube, if you search. And before you ask, I will not call him out by name, because I do not know if it is against his will or even community rules on the forums. Okay?

If you feel you know nothing about trading, start by joining a trading guild with a discord. Most advertise in Zone Chat of the trading hubs they are in: Mournhold, Vivec City, Belkarth, etc.
Pay their fees and talk to them. Ask them. Learn from them. That is the best way. Youtubers rarely know what is what and are mostly clickbaiting you.

I believe I understand your line of thinking, you're not used to playing an MMO where you have plenty of products you can get as a guaranteed drop that can sell for a decent rate of cash. For example in RuneScape, you can sell dragon ones for 3k each, and green dragon hide for 1.5k each around the time I was playing many years ago. My character was strong so I calculated how much I could kill, how much I could profit an hour. That's common in MMORPGs.

This issue with ESO is the only thing you can kill for a close to a guaranteed drop is animals for hide, and it's not even always guaranteed, also it's not worth enough to make the average player want to farm it. It simply isn't worth enough. ESO doesn't have any product that you can farm at a guaranteed hourly rate for profit. You say it's not realistic to farm at an hourly rate, but that's just because ESO doesn't offer a proper reward loot system for players to utilize, however you can farm XP for an hourly rate, just not products for profit... If this has been your only MMORPG, just say that. Lol

Lol the point I'm getting at is that this is a game, not IRL, and also technically irl would have the features if you're doing online shopping.

Lol that's cute how you're going on about not knowing anything about trading as I merch in other MMORPGs. Your buddy made 300m by flipping. For example. The rare thesis recipe item used to make 150% xp pvp food is being flipped all the time where people might buy it for as low as 150m and re sell it for 300m. You need loads of gold to be able to flip like this and you can make a lot of money at a fast rate.

Getting there is an issue. Earning gold per hour isn't something you can fathom cause you're not used to it cause this game does it badly while other games do it flawlessly. During this event, powering leveling CP has got me casual rate of 9m XP an hour which could be raised to 9.5-10m an hour depending how try hard we want to be.

Just because you may not know much about trading doesn't mean you should dismiss the other side of trading. Lol

I dunno. It seems like there are a lot of assumptions you are making.

Here is the thing about eso, you are not required to trade to play. The trade system is a time saver nothing more. You can in fact bypass the entire system and still play just fine. Afterall there isn't anything that you can buy or trade that you can not obtain with time, effort, and/or skill. The trade system is a shortcut to those ends and rewards players who dedicate their time to fill those that don't want to do the above.

You don't need a lot of gold to actually play the game.

If you can point me to a single gameplay aspect that 100% requires gold expenditures that is debilitating to gameplay please let me know.

My friend was just complaining to me to where she often has a plan to that costs about 13 or more heartwood, and she might need like 30+ of that particular furniture for her housing project, and she's tried farming it, which takes her about an hour to just get 30 which isn't even close to a stack... She doesn't want to farm that long for so little...
...

And you expect somebody else to do the grinding you or your friend do not want to do yourselves?
AND you want the players who make the grind give the result of their EFFORT away for a penny and a dime?

That's what you think an MMO economy should be like?

Thats your vision of FAIR TRADE?

REALLY?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.

The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.

So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.

Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.

I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.

Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,

I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.

That's absolutely false but humor me this, how much money can you consistently make in an hour as profit and elder scrolls online and what exactly are you doing to make that cash? what are you selling?

All my toons have Jewelry lv50, so any intricate drops from the writs go on the free market All upgrade mats that I do not need. Surplus items with value, like hot overland drops in good traits Companion gear in purple Valuable stuff from all kinds of dailies Or high value ingredients for potion making, like corn flower, for example I even sell repair kits, because I get a free stack of 200 every week from writs [\list] A million per week is always possible and I am not even farming the valuable stuff, like the latest furnishing recipes or anything that is rare, valuable and in demand.

I gotcha, a million a week. But what do you make an hour guaranteed? If you decided you wanted to make some money, how much can you make an hour at a guaranteed rate that does not involve carries?

Carries? I play SOLO now, always.
Please do not insinuate anything. That keeps the forum civil. 🤨

The gold per hour thinking is not fitting to measure your success. ☝️
That thinking is totally 2010. 😂
The return in gold is often not happening straight away. I mean, it is not gold drops we are talking about, that make the profit.

You should look up your total income per week. Or even better per month.
Sales are often better at weekends, because of more population. And grinding is easier during graveyard time in the week, mondays to thursdays, because of a lot less population. You've got to bring these two together.
If not, you are just lying to yourself by creating a random and misleading number.

Gold per hour... 😞

And the true Masters of commerce know when to sell and when to keep/store.
You do not want to sell at low prices when you can expect them to rise again in the near future. Or at/before events. Good traders know that and utilise ESOplus, Alt accounts, storage mules and the craftbag to maximise storage and profit respectively.

And all these can be pruchased with RL money, which is why I see that critically. It's unlikely to change and I've made my peace with that.
But still, one can purchase himself an advantage, if one desires it.

And btw, that one million is considered "not even trying" in many trading guilds. It really comes in almost passively.
The GM of a partner guild made 300 millions in the first week of Zeal of Zenithar event. I am not kidding. He's very public about it. You can easily find him on YouTube, if you search. And before you ask, I will not call him out by name, because I do not know if it is against his will or even community rules on the forums. Okay?

If you feel you know nothing about trading, start by joining a trading guild with a discord. Most advertise in Zone Chat of the trading hubs they are in: Mournhold, Vivec City, Belkarth, etc.
Pay their fees and talk to them. Ask them. Learn from them. That is the best way. Youtubers rarely know what is what and are mostly clickbaiting you.

I believe I understand your line of thinking, you're not used to playing an MMO where you have plenty of products you can get as a guaranteed drop that can sell for a decent rate of cash. For example in RuneScape, you can sell dragon ones for 3k each, and green dragon hide for 1.5k each around the time I was playing many years ago. My character was strong so I calculated how much I could kill, how much I could profit an hour. That's common in MMORPGs.

This issue with ESO is the only thing you can kill for a close to a guaranteed drop is animals for hide, and it's not even always guaranteed, also it's not worth enough to make the average player want to farm it. It simply isn't worth enough. ESO doesn't have any product that you can farm at a guaranteed hourly rate for profit. You say it's not realistic to farm at an hourly rate, but that's just because ESO doesn't offer a proper reward loot system for players to utilize, however you can farm XP for an hourly rate, just not products for profit... If this has been your only MMORPG, just say that. Lol

Lol the point I'm getting at is that this is a game, not IRL, and also technically irl would have the features if you're doing online shopping.

Lol that's cute how you're going on about not knowing anything about trading as I merch in other MMORPGs. Your buddy made 300m by flipping. For example. The rare thesis recipe item used to make 150% xp pvp food is being flipped all the time where people might buy it for as low as 150m and re sell it for 300m. You need loads of gold to be able to flip like this and you can make a lot of money at a fast rate.

Getting there is an issue. Earning gold per hour isn't something you can fathom cause you're not used to it cause this game does it badly while other games do it flawlessly. During this event, powering leveling CP has got me casual rate of 9m XP an hour which could be raised to 9.5-10m an hour depending how try hard we want to be.

Just because you may not know much about trading doesn't mean you should dismiss the other side of trading. Lol

I dunno. It seems like there are a lot of assumptions you are making.

Here is the thing about eso, you are not required to trade to play. The trade system is a time saver nothing more. You can in fact bypass the entire system and still play just fine. Afterall there isn't anything that you can buy or trade that you can not obtain with time, effort, and/or skill. The trade system is a shortcut to those ends and rewards players who dedicate their time to fill those that don't want to do the above.

You don't need a lot of gold to actually play the game.

If you can point me to a single gameplay aspect that 100% requires gold expenditures that is debilitating to gameplay please let me know.

My friend was just complaining to me to where she often has a plan to that costs about 13 or more heartwood, and she might need like 30+ of that particular furniture for her housing project, and she's tried farming it, which takes her about an hour to just get 30 which isn't even close to a stack... She doesn't want to farm that long for so little...
...

And you expect somebody else to do the grinding you or your friend do not want to do yourselves?
AND you want the players who make the grind give the result of their EFFORT away for a penny and a dime?

That's what you think an MMO economy should be like?

Thats your vision of FAIR TRADE?

REALLY?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Actually the players who like to farm that way and make their gold selling that way would still be free to do it that way as there will always be players doing it... Nobody is forcing these players to farm like that, but if a player chooses not to think outside the box like how things actually are in real life, then that's their issue but at least they would have the freedom of having options and choose what fits then best. It's like the whole idea is just flying over your head and it's funny to me. Lol

You missed the whole explanation of what ESO economy should be... 🤣😂😭