wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.

The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.

So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.

Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.

I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.

Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke, another vast majority of the game quits because of nerfs, another vast majority of players quit because of broken game machnics such as the block bug in combat and various other bugs. Don't try to sweep known issues under the rug because you find it less important than other issues that the game has. They have to address them all, and the economy is just as important if not more important.

King_*** wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.

The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.

So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.

Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.

I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.

Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,

I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.

The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.

So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.

Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.

I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.

Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,

I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.

That's absolutely false but humor me this, how much money can you consistently make in an hour as profit and elder scrolls online and what exactly are you doing to make that cash? what are you selling?

joergino wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke, another vast majority of the game quits because of nerfs, another vast majority of players quit because of broken game machnics such as the block bug in combat and various other bugs.

That's a lot of vast majorities.

Still accurate cause it happens in phases.

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.

The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.

So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.

Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.

I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.

Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,

I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.

That's absolutely false but humor me this, how much money can you consistently make in an hour as profit and elder scrolls online and what exactly are you doing to make that cash? what are you selling?

All my toons have Jewelry lv50, so any intricate drops from the writs go on the free market All upgrade mats that I do not need. Surplus items with value, like hot overland drops in good traits Companion gear in purple Valuable stuff from all kinds of dailies Or high value ingredients for potion making, like corn flower, for example I even sell repair kits, because I get a free stack of 200 every week from writs [\list] A million per week is always possible and I am not even farming the valuable stuff, like the latest furnishing recipes or anything that is rare, valuable and in demand.

I gotcha, a million a week. But what do you make an hour guaranteed? If you decided you wanted to make some money, how much can you make an hour at a guaranteed rate that does not involve carries?

King_*** wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.

The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.

So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.

Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.

I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.

Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,

I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.

That's absolutely false but humor me this, how much money can you consistently make in an hour as profit and elder scrolls online and what exactly are you doing to make that cash? what are you selling?

All my toons have Jewelry lv50, so any intricate drops from the writs go on the free market All upgrade mats that I do not need. Surplus items with value, like hot overland drops in good traits Companion gear in purple Valuable stuff from all kinds of dailies Or high value ingredients for potion making, like corn flower, for example I even sell repair kits, because I get a free stack of 200 every week from writs [\list] A million per week is always possible and I am not even farming the valuable stuff, like the latest furnishing recipes or anything that is rare, valuable and in demand.

I gotcha, a million a week. But what do you make an hour guaranteed? If you decided you wanted to make some money, how much can you make an hour at a guaranteed rate that does not involve carries?

Carries? I play SOLO now, always.
Please do not insinuate anything. That keeps the forum civil. 🤨

The gold per hour thinking is not fitting to measure your success. ☝️
That thinking is totally 2010. 😂
The return in gold is often not happening straight away. I mean, it is not gold drops we are talking about, that make the profit.

You should look up your total income per week. Or even better per month.
Sales are often better at weekends, because of more population. And grinding is easier during graveyard time in the week, mondays to thursdays, because of a lot less population. You've got to bring these two together.
If not, you are just lying to yourself by creating a random and misleading number.

Gold per hour... 😞

And the true Masters of commerce know when to sell and when to keep/store.
You do not want to sell at low prices when you can expect them to rise again in the near future. Or at/before events. Good traders know that and utilise ESOplus, Alt accounts, storage mules and the craftbag to maximise storage and profit respectively.

And all these can be pruchased with RL money, which is why I see that critically. It's unlikely to change and I've made my peace with that.
But still, one can purchase himself an advantage, if one desires it.

And btw, that one million is considered "not even trying" in many trading guilds. It really comes in almost passively.
The GM of a partner guild made 300 millions in the first week of Zeal of Zenithar event. I am not kidding. He's very public about it. You can easily find him on YouTube, if you search. And before you ask, I will not call him out by name, because I do not know if it is against his will or even community rules on the forums. Okay?

If you feel you know nothing about trading, start by joining a trading guild with a discord. Most advertise in Zone Chat of the trading hubs they are in: Mournhold, Vivec City, Belkarth, etc.
Pay their fees and talk to them. Ask them. Learn from them. That is the best way. Youtubers rarely know what is what and are mostly clickbaiting you.

King_*** wrote: »

It's not pointless, the history feature is a basic feature that's already in other mmorpg's, which prevents people from scamming. For example, players taking advantage of lone items on the market that freshly sold out to list it at what ever price they feel because they have the only one....

So you're telling me that doesn't happen IRL?

ghastley wrote: »

What relevance does “economy” have to the purpose of an MMO? It’s not fundamentally a trading game; that’s just a mini-game for those with a special interest. Arguing central versus distributed economies is just re-hashing the capitalism/socialism debate by proxy. Leave that for other media
.
Does the current system serve the game’s players? Not the traders, the players. Yes, possibly at the expense of the traders, but they don’t matter.

Traders are not players then?


This discussion comes up every once in a while and i don't understand how you keep coming up with it when its clear its not wanted by the community.

The trading system is one of the few systems which sets ESO apart from other games. There are ENTIRE communities based around trading (probably one of the biggest communities in the game).

Removing the trader system would be the same as removing PVP, Housing or PVE. Its a fundamental part of this game, and for many people the sole reason they play it.

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.

The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.

So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.

Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.

I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.

Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,

I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.

That's absolutely false but humor me this, how much money can you consistently make in an hour as profit and elder scrolls online and what exactly are you doing to make that cash? what are you selling?

All my toons have Jewelry lv50, so any intricate drops from the writs go on the free market All upgrade mats that I do not need. Surplus items with value, like hot overland drops in good traits Companion gear in purple Valuable stuff from all kinds of dailies Or high value ingredients for potion making, like corn flower, for example I even sell repair kits, because I get a free stack of 200 every week from writs [\list] A million per week is always possible and I am not even farming the valuable stuff, like the latest furnishing recipes or anything that is rare, valuable and in demand.

I gotcha, a million a week. But what do you make an hour guaranteed? If you decided you wanted to make some money, how much can you make an hour at a guaranteed rate that does not involve carries?

Carries? I play SOLO now, always.
Please do not insinuate anything. That keeps the forum civil. 🤨

The gold per hour thinking is not fitting to measure your success. ☝️
That thinking is totally 2010. 😂
The return in gold is often not happening straight away. I mean, it is not gold drops we are talking about, that make the profit.

You should look up your total income per week. Or even better per month.
Sales are often better at weekends, because of more population. And grinding is easier during graveyard time in the week, mondays to thursdays, because of a lot less population. You've got to bring these two together.
If not, you are just lying to yourself by creating a random and misleading number.

Gold per hour... 😞

And the true Masters of commerce know when to sell and when to keep/store.
You do not want to sell at low prices when you can expect them to rise again in the near future. Or at/before events. Good traders know that and utilise ESOplus, Alt accounts, storage mules and the craftbag to maximise storage and profit respectively.

And all these can be pruchased with RL money, which is why I see that critically. It's unlikely to change and I've made my peace with that.
But still, one can purchase himself an advantage, if one desires it.

And btw, that one million is considered "not even trying" in many trading guilds. It really comes in almost passively.
The GM of a partner guild made 300 millions in the first week of Zeal of Zenithar event. I am not kidding. He's very public about it. You can easily find him on YouTube, if you search. And before you ask, I will not call him out by name, because I do not know if it is against his will or even community rules on the forums. Okay?

If you feel you know nothing about trading, start by joining a trading guild with a discord. Most advertise in Zone Chat of the trading hubs they are in: Mournhold, Vivec City, Belkarth, etc.
Pay their fees and talk to them. Ask them. Learn from them. That is the best way. Youtubers rarely know what is what and are mostly clickbaiting you.

I believe I understand your line of thinking, you're not used to playing an MMO where you have plenty of products you can get as a guaranteed drop that can sell for a decent rate of cash. For example in RuneScape, you can sell dragon ones for 3k each, and green dragon hide for 1.5k each around the time I was playing many years ago. My character was strong so I calculated how much I could kill, how much I could profit an hour. That's common in MMORPGs.

This issue with ESO is the only thing you can kill for a close to a guaranteed drop is animals for hide, and it's not even always guaranteed, also it's not worth enough to make the average player want to farm it. It simply isn't worth enough. ESO doesn't have any product that you can farm at a guaranteed hourly rate for profit. You say it's not realistic to farm at an hourly rate, but that's just because ESO doesn't offer a proper reward loot system for players to utilize, however you can farm XP for an hourly rate, just not products for profit... If this has been your only MMORPG, just say that. Lol

Lol the point I'm getting at is that this is a game, not IRL, and also technically irl would have the features if you're doing online shopping.

Lol that's cute how you're going on about not knowing anything about trading as I merch in other MMORPGs. Your buddy made 300m by flipping. For example. The rare thesis recipe item used to make 150% xp pvp food is being flipped all the time where people might buy it for as low as 150m and re sell it for 300m. You need loads of gold to be able to flip like this and you can make a lot of money at a fast rate.

Getting there is an issue. Earning gold per hour isn't something you can fathom cause you're not used to it cause this game does it badly while other games do it flawlessly. During this event, powering leveling CP has got me casual rate of 9m XP an hour which could be raised to 9.5-10m an hour depending how try hard we want to be.

Just because you may not know much about trading doesn't mean you should dismiss the other side of trading. Lol

If you just quest, you'll be like my AD character, who finished her alliance zones with roughly 300k gold in the bank, IIRC. So, practically broke when you hit CP 160 and start looking at upgrading to gold materials.

But it doesn't have to be that way.

My main character started harvesting materials to sell quite early. Alchemy Regeants, Fish, and Nirncrux are available to all players starting at level 3 right out of the tutorial.

That's what my first fortune was built on (and then rebuilt after I spent it on motifs).

Now, I haven't farmed seriously or tracked the results for at least a year at this point, so my numbers are out-of-date. Moreover, they always fluctuated with the price of Nirncrux and the demand for housing mats. However, I have tracked it in the past.

For most of the time, my hourly profit collecting max level crafting mats in Craglorn was 50-80k, topping out at 100k an hour during one patch where Potent Nirncrux, Mundane Runes, and Heartwood were expensive.


The real key to whether or not a player is going to feel broke is what they do in game. If the player participates in the available activities that net them items to sell to others, they'll have gold. If the player has limited time or limited desire to engage in gold-making activities, their gold is obviously also limited.

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

But that is no reason to destroy the fun of others playing the game. Don't you think?

The current system is horrid for most. Sure a few benefit, often greatly, but it is horrid as has been noted many times before. Finding things and finding a good price to sell things without something like the TTC addon is impossible and even that doesn't help (even with its webpage) in a great many cases.

I am greatly annoyed whenever I have to deal with it. Those on consoles don't get it at all.

At the very least, its functionality should be real-time and built into the game, though I won't hold my breath waiting though.

So I should suffer so some can "enjoy" profiting off limited information?

King_*** wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.

The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.

So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.

Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.

I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.

Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,

I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.

That's absolutely false but humor me this, how much money can you consistently make in an hour as profit and elder scrolls online and what exactly are you doing to make that cash? what are you selling?

All my toons have Jewelry lv50, so any intricate drops from the writs go on the free market All upgrade mats that I do not need. Surplus items with value, like hot overland drops in good traits Companion gear in purple Valuable stuff from all kinds of dailies Or high value ingredients for potion making, like corn flower, for example I even sell repair kits, because I get a free stack of 200 every week from writs [\list] A million per week is always possible and I am not even farming the valuable stuff, like the latest furnishing recipes or anything that is rare, valuable and in demand.

I gotcha, a million a week. But what do you make an hour guaranteed? If you decided you wanted to make some money, how much can you make an hour at a guaranteed rate that does not involve carries?

Carries? I play SOLO now, always.
Please do not insinuate anything. That keeps the forum civil. 🤨

The gold per hour thinking is not fitting to measure your success. ☝️
That thinking is totally 2010. 😂
The return in gold is often not happening straight away. I mean, it is not gold drops we are talking about, that make the profit.

You should look up your total income per week. Or even better per month.
Sales are often better at weekends, because of more population. And grinding is easier during graveyard time in the week, mondays to thursdays, because of a lot less population. You've got to bring these two together.
If not, you are just lying to yourself by creating a random and misleading number.

Gold per hour... 😞

And the true Masters of commerce know when to sell and when to keep/store.
You do not want to sell at low prices when you can expect them to rise again in the near future. Or at/before events. Good traders know that and utilise ESOplus, Alt accounts, storage mules and the craftbag to maximise storage and profit respectively.

And all these can be pruchased with RL money, which is why I see that critically. It's unlikely to change and I've made my peace with that.
But still, one can purchase himself an advantage, if one desires it.

And btw, that one million is considered "not even trying" in many trading guilds. It really comes in almost passively.
The GM of a partner guild made 300 millions in the first week of Zeal of Zenithar event. I am not kidding. He's very public about it. You can easily find him on YouTube, if you search. And before you ask, I will not call him out by name, because I do not know if it is against his will or even community rules on the forums. Okay?

If you feel you know nothing about trading, start by joining a trading guild with a discord. Most advertise in Zone Chat of the trading hubs they are in: Mournhold, Vivec City, Belkarth, etc.
Pay their fees and talk to them. Ask them. Learn from them. That is the best way. Youtubers rarely know what is what and are mostly clickbaiting you.

I believe I understand your line of thinking, you're not used to playing an MMO where you have plenty of products you can get as a guaranteed drop that can sell for a decent rate of cash. For example in RuneScape, you can sell dragon ones for 3k each, and green dragon hide for 1.5k each around the time I was playing many years ago. My character was strong so I calculated how much I could kill, how much I could profit an hour. That's common in MMORPGs.

This issue with ESO is the only thing you can kill for a close to a guaranteed drop is animals for hide, and it's not even always guaranteed, also it's not worth enough to make the average player want to farm it. It simply isn't worth enough. ESO doesn't have any product that you can farm at a guaranteed hourly rate for profit. You say it's not realistic to farm at an hourly rate, but that's just because ESO doesn't offer a proper reward loot system for players to utilize, however you can farm XP for an hourly rate, just not products for profit... If this has been your only MMORPG, just say that. Lol

Lol the point I'm getting at is that this is a game, not IRL, and also technically irl would have the features if you're doing online shopping.

Lol that's cute how you're going on about not knowing anything about trading as I merch in other MMORPGs. Your buddy made 300m by flipping. For example. The rare thesis recipe item used to make 150% xp pvp food is being flipped all the time where people might buy it for as low as 150m and re sell it for 300m. You need loads of gold to be able to flip like this and you can make a lot of money at a fast rate.

Getting there is an issue. Earning gold per hour isn't something you can fathom cause you're not used to it cause this game does it badly while other games do it flawlessly. During this event, powering leveling CP has got me casual rate of 9m XP an hour which could be raised to 9.5-10m an hour depending how try hard we want to be.

Just because you may not know much about trading doesn't mean you should dismiss the other side of trading. Lol

I dunno. It seems like there are a lot of assumptions you are making.

Here is the thing about eso, you are not required to trade to play. The trade system is a time saver nothing more. You can in fact bypass the entire system and still play just fine. Afterall there isn't anything that you can buy or trade that you can not obtain with time, effort, and/or skill. The trade system is a shortcut to those ends and rewards players who dedicate their time to fill those that don't want to do the above.

You don't need a lot of gold to actually play the game.

If you can point me to a single gameplay aspect that 100% requires gold expenditures that is debilitating to gameplay please let me know.

VaranisArano wrote: »

If you just quest, you'll be like my AD character, who finished her alliance zones with roughly 300k gold in the bank, IIRC. So, practically broke when you hit CP 160 and start looking at upgrading to gold materials.

Funnily enough, that's actually not a bad chunk of gold on Playstation for getting gear.

Let's say an newbie wanted to use fully crafted gear for their gear. Let's also say they have a guildmate that will craft it for them and make it purple for free, but they will need to provide the silk and gold mats. As that is a pretty typical occurrence on Playstation, at least in all the guilds I have been in.

So the newbie decides they want to use Mother's Sorrow and Order's Wrath or Julianos. That's also a fairly common setup I've seen requested for beginning magicka damage dealers in zone/guild chat, at least when it comes to the people who were vocal about asking straight away.

So....

Robe = 150 silk
Shoes = 130 silk
Bracers= 130 silk
Guards = 140 silk
Belt = 130 silk

Hat = 130 silk
Shoulders = 130 silk

940 total silk, typically someone will just buy 5 stacks. At 8,000 coins per stack that is 40k.

I see some Mother's Sorrow weapons on the guild trader for 25k right now, and some jewelry pieces for 25k. That's 125k.

So now their bill is 165k.

They can get Rosin for around 3k each. They need 16. That's another 48k. That's 213k all together to have full purple crafted gear with gold weapons, which is a fairly standard order.

If the guildmate doesn't offer the upgrades to purple....

I see a full stack of hemming for 2900 coins. That's 14.5 coins per hemming. That's 203 coins for the hemming.
I see a full stack of Embroider for 5000 coins. That's 25 coins per embroidery. That's 525 coins for the embroidery
I see a full stack of Elegant Lining for 9400 coins. That's 47 coins per lining. That's 1316 coins for the lining.

You can see why people often offer this free in guilds. That's a lot of time wasted doing math for very little coins LOL. Some people also just ask for a flat 2-3k.

That's an extra 2044 coin for the upgrade mats to purple. So that's around 215k coins altogether for a fully equipped character.

In other words, if they fairly typical help from a guild mate, they would have enough coin to get everything they needed to start playing their toon in beginner vet dungeons just from questing (assuming your 300k ish coin value is correct about the quest rewards) including gold weapons.

Gold Jewelry on the other hand is a different matter. Many people on here consider it too expensive to be worth it unless you're an endgame player.

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

King_*** wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

A practical objection: Trading guild pages can already start to chug when getting near their maximum of 15,000 items. A market board in a major city would be updating many more items than that, and I'm not sure how well the servers would cope.

Another practical objection: in the past, ZOS had to limit the number of calls trading add-ons like Master Merchant and TTC could make on the server in a short period of time because it was impacting server performance. When you talk about updating a large Market Board as well as item histories, price points, etc. as a base game feature rather than an addon and thus subject to a much higher demand from the broader playerbase, ZOS would have to address the underlying issues first for it to even be feasible.

Then that means the system doesn't work well, and ZOS would have to change the system as a whole, which could be the main focus of the upcoming 2023. Upgrading the game giving player's and the servers a better quality of life that would fit better into the game.

Zos has other more functional issues to worry about. Primarily they need to focus on replacing servers and fixing combat issues while also making money.

The type of upgrades we are talking is going to be very costly on the hardware end. For no guarantee that the system will improve.

So please explain exactly why zos should make this change at massive expense and possible loss of playerbase for almost no financial return, when the current system works.

Personally, if I were in charge and forced to consider something like this I would look at revamping loot tables and item drop rates, gold sinks, inventory options.

I would also go as far as making everything bind on pickup as the resulting loss of player base would be the same and it would cost the company less to implement.

Simple because it would bring more players back to the game. You gotta understand that the vast majority of the player base quit of frustration due to being broke,

I don't believe that for a second. Gold is easy to come by in game. Just by playing the game you can afford everything you need and a good amount of things you want. That aside there is no way we as players can know why the majority of players that left the game did so. The vast majority never posts here.

That's absolutely false but humor me this, how much money can you consistently make in an hour as profit and elder scrolls online and what exactly are you doing to make that cash? what are you selling?

You look at it from the wrong side. It is not false that you can easily afford everything you need just by playing the game. It isn't how much you make an hour but how much gold you need. You might be confusing want with need. You don't need gold gear until you are ready to start running vet trials and DLC dungeons. By the time you need the gold gear you have plenty of gold or supplies to either buy or make your own.
Players confuse want with need quite often. With the current market system most players can get everything the need and most of what they want. The market is strong, fluid and vibrant. It ebb and flows with supply and demand as any healthy market would. And the most important thing is changing to a central type of system would only compound the problems you are looking to address.
As others have stated it isn't about how much can be made in an hour. That will always vary some in this game and that isn't a bad thing at all. Farming gear sometimes you get lucky and get the choice weapon with the preferred trait first run. Other times it may take many runs. For consistent and steady income crafting is the way to go. You won't build up a huge surplus of gold but you can keep yourself in good gear the the desired foods/potions easily enough.
I used to make a lot of gold by doing master writs, purchasing furniture plans with the vouchers then selling those plans. Then because I had a ton of AP I started purchasing things with AP then selling them for gold. Just playing at what I enjoyed I amassed a bit of a fortune.
I am in a guild that gets a trader maybe once every two months. It isn't in a prime location but during that one week I can usually come in with over seven million gold. Again that is just by doing things I find fun. I don't go out looking for gold or for items to sell. It just happens as I play the game.

I digress, however this is your idea of making a fortune, playing the game beating the game through various questing and slow pay and compiling up all your saving calling it a good sum of gold, but you can't even buy yourself basic necessities for more than one character. Also you're under the implication of 300K being a lot of money which is not a lot of money in elder scrolls online. You also feel like making a million gold a week is a good rate of income in a game elder scrolls online. Compared to what the average product cost in elder scrolls online and the things that you need for the high prices especially on PC you'll be running out of money so fast every time.

I create PvP builds collecting different sets of gear takes time and money by the way you play, you might take a year to gear out each character effectively when you should have been able to do it within that hour. I personally think your defense is that you like taking the game extremely slow, and you'd like everyone else to play as you do as if people aren't supposed to have different play style and goals other than the types that you have.

That's fine that you don't farm gold specifically for income, but a lot of people farm gold for income to purchase what they want. Farming for gold for general income in ESO is a very slow rate to other MMORPGs due to the way the economy is setup and that's the main point I'm getting at.

King_*** wrote: »

That's fine that you don't farm gold specifically for income, but a lot of people farm gold for income to purchase what they want. Farming for gold for general income in ESO is a very slow rate to other MMORPGs due to the way the economy is setup and that's the main point I'm getting at.

Actually, I've found making gold in this game FAR FAR easier than I did in WoW and RIFT years back. I guess it depends on one's referents.

VaranisArano wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

If you just quest, you'll be like my AD character, who finished her alliance zones with roughly 300k gold in the bank, IIRC. So, practically broke when you hit CP 160 and start looking at upgrading to gold materials.

Funnily enough, that's actually not a bad chunk of gold on Playstation for getting gear.

Let's say an newbie wanted to use fully crafted gear for their gear. Let's also say they have a guildmate that will craft it for them and make it purple for free, but they will need to provide the silk and gold mats. As that is a pretty typical occurrence on Playstation, at least in all the guilds I have been in.

So the newbie decides they want to use Mother's Sorrow and Order's Wrath or Julianos. That's also a fairly common setup I've seen requested for beginning magicka damage dealers in zone/guild chat, at least when it comes to the people who were vocal about asking straight away.

So....

Robe = 150 silk
Shoes = 130 silk
Bracers= 130 silk
Guards = 140 silk
Belt = 130 silk

Hat = 130 silk
Shoulders = 130 silk

940 total silk, typically someone will just buy 5 stacks. At 8,000 coins per stack that is 40k.

I see some Mother's Sorrow weapons on the guild trader for 25k right now, and some jewelry pieces for 25k. That's 125k.

So now their bill is 165k.

They can get Rosin for around 3k each. They need 16. That's another 48k. That's 213k all together to have full purple crafted gear with gold weapons, which is a fairly standard order.

If the guildmate doesn't offer the upgrades to purple....

I see a full stack of hemming for 2900 coins. That's 14.5 coins per hemming. That's 203 coins for the hemming.
I see a full stack of Embroider for 5000 coins. That's 25 coins per embroidery. That's 525 coins for the embroidery
I see a full stack of Elegant Lining for 9400 coins. That's 47 coins per lining. That's 1316 coins for the lining.

You can see why people often offer this free in guilds. That's a lot of time wasted doing math for very little coins LOL. Some people also just ask for a flat 2-3k.

That's an extra 2044 coin for the upgrade mats to purple. So that's around 215k coins altogether for a fully equipped character.

In other words, if they fairly typical help from a guild mate, they would have enough coin to get everything they needed to start playing their toon in beginner vet dungeons just from questing (assuming your 300k ish coin value is correct about the quest rewards) including gold weapons.

Gold Jewelry on the other hand is a different matter. Many people on here consider it too expensive to be worth it unless you're an endgame player.

Nice! Yeah, even on PC, my first guild would make purple gear free for lower level players, or for CP 160 if you provided the mats.

And while gold upgrade mats might be more expensive, it's not necessarily a bad thing. The first gear I golded was my early Whitestrake's Retribution set, which I promptly outgrew as I got better at tanking. I still have those pieces for nostalgia's sake...

Anyways, I digress. It's also really easy to defray the costs of crafted gear by farming one's own materials or doing crafting writs, which goes to show that it's pretty accessible even to newer players without much gold. My AD character didn't farm much. My main crafted her own gear as she leveled up (we'll not talk about the white cotton on the white snow of Eastmarch) and so was pretty well prepared for heading into dungeons when I decided to try it out.

It may be my biases showing here, but it seems to me that players who experience the most problems are the ones who refuse to engage in ESO's support systems, be it helpful guilds or spending their limited time doing activities like crafting and farming their own materials. I understand there are players who never ever want to join guilds, but they are cutting themselves off from a valuable source of help. Trying to be self-sufficient is possible, but naturally harder.

The final statement is completely wrong.

Getting simple stuff from guildmates is trivial, but that is not the problem. Finding something on a guild trader is the challenge, even with TTC.