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Should our in-game achievements be visible on our Forum Accounts?
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The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In FavorBlood_again wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Blood_again wrote: »If you think developers seriously changed content for forum voting only, without checking real game stats and further data research, I guess you should trust them a bit more.
That is your assumption, and your interpretation. If you feel like it’s gatekeeping for people to have a stake in what it is they are taking about, a visible one at that, then you should join the NBA, you’re 5 feet tall, but you got this. While you’re there, be sure to critique their form, as you know best.
You missed the point why "your content" was changed. It happened because of stats of thousand battles was checked. Not because thousand of malicious unexperienced players called to nerf templars. After, maybe, not because.
You may be 5 feet tall in your area of expertise, but ingame changes work in other way. If even you got you forum profile changes, you would be terrified with the next nerf, although high achievement holders didn't want that nerf. Why nerf? The right people said so much right things on forum!
Really, if you can manage trial boss mechanics, why the content changes mechanic is not obvious for you? Trials are more complex.
Scroll up.0 -
BretonMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OpposedImplying a less experienced player has less right to voice their opinion is really some next-level elitism.
Posts that are well-worded and backed up with sound arguments already tend to be taken more seriously, and that's all we need.18 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In FavorBretonMage wrote: »Implying a less experienced player has less right to voice their opinion is really some next-level elitism.
Posts that are well-worded and backed up with sound arguments already tend to be taken more seriously, and that's all we need.
Why would a less experienced player’s voice get silenced? All visible achievements would do is give people context as to why others believe the things they do.
When you apply to a guild, your achievement score is visible to the people handling applications; how is this different? Transparency is good.Edited by The_Titan_Tim on December 23, 2022 12:55PM5 -
BretonMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OpposedThe_Titan_Tim wrote: »BretonMage wrote: »Implying a less experienced player has less right to voice their opinion is really some next-level elitism.
Posts that are well-worded and backed up with sound arguments already tend to be taken more seriously, and that's all we need.
Why would a less experienced player’s voice get silenced? All visible achievements would do is give people context as to why others believe the things they do.
When you apply to a guild, your achievement score is visible to the people handling applications; how is this different? Transparency is good.
"Context" to dismiss their opinion? It is still elitism. And talking on a public forum is not the same as applying to a population-limited guild.14 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OpposedI'm not going to earn achievements on this account just so I can participate in discussion lol. Its for storage and low-key stuff.
On my main, I have Former Emperor, 5 stars, and I can tell you right now that nothing I could say about Templar would be relevant in PvP because I haven't stepped back in Cyro for well over 6 months.
So much for the credibility of linked achievements.
And anyway. Attack the logic, not the person. If your counter-argument is relying on attacks about the person, and not focussing on the logic of what she or he is saying, its a weak argument.18 -
fizl101✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Opposedendgamesmug wrote: »My accounts not connected to my ingame accounts so wouldnt work anyway. Besides peacocking has never been my style, i have a ton of titles on my main account and have never used one in all the years ive been playing.
My account is my original beta account but I play 99% on Playstation, so TBH you would see very little on my forum account if this was implementedSoupy twist4 -
freespirit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭OpposedIf you click on peoples names here on the forums, you will see an increasing number are making even their profiles here private.
Taking this into consideration your idea would likely be dead out of the starting gate, unfortunately the internet and these forums are full of trolls, I certainly wouldn't want any game info of mine accessable here!!When people say to me........
"You're going to regret that in the morning"
I sleep until midday cos I'm a problem solver!13 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In FavorGotta give credit where it’s due, the poll is almost unanimously skewed towards secrecy.
Funny enough, the first vote was a private account.
Can’t even make this stuff up.0 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭OpposedHmm, I would be both for and against this. Mostly against though.
Would be for this: Because it would be fun to see everyone's achievement points. And what they may be doing in-game.
Would be against this: Because linking our accounts to the forum accounts can go very badly. Imagine something going wrong with either the forums or the game, and losing achievements because of it. Or imagine if you get forum banned, would you be account banned as well? .. Also, players would be able to see who we are in-game, which could lead to whole other issues, like stalking and sending pm's because of on-forum opinions. And that is even besides the point of players who would be using achievement points to discredit other's opinions.
But for discussions to take place, it is good when both sides have to defend their point-of-view. This way anyone reading a discussion would get a sense of what that player is thinking. As someone who is part of quite some discussions, I would never outright dismiss someone's point-of-view. And at the end of the day, even if we fundamentally disagree, we have to understand none of us are making gamechanging decisions. ZOS does that, so when you want changes, make sure to be able to defend them. That way ZOS may read it, maybe agree with it, and maybe make changes because of it.
Personally I only try to enter discussions that are based on overall changes, as I am not good at balance stuff. This is also why I mostly stay away from PvP threads, unless it is about ways to get more players to PvP. Than I will throw in my two cents. Because sometimes it takes an outside view to see what changes may be needed. And even if I am wrong, I respect those who point it out.
PS: Happy holidays everyone!
PPS: Thanks for the free pet ZOS!Edited by Sarannah on December 23, 2022 1:46PM3 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In FavorPersonally I only try to enter discussions that are based on overall changes, as I am not good at balance stuff. This is also why I mostly stay away from PvP threads, unless it is about ways to get more players to PvP. Then I will throw in my two cents. Because sometimes it takes an outside view to see what changes may be needed. And even if I am wrong, I respect those who point it out.
PS: Happy holidays everyone!
PPS: Thanks for the free pet ZOS!
People are going to try to discredit each other regardless of account achievements, I have been getting attacked this entire form for even suggesting that the time I put into this game be visible, making all kinds of assumptions about what ‘people’ would do with this tool, and how elitest of a concept it is to even suggest. lol
It’s interesting to see people’s perspective from the other side, what little trust they have in each other to use the concept for constructive conversations instead of a tool for division.
Although we only semi-agree, I understand your points and respect them, and wish you happy holidays too.1 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Opposed.The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Personally I only try to enter discussions that are based on overall changes, as I am not good at balance stuff. This is also why I mostly stay away from PvP threads, unless it is about ways to get more players to PvP. Then I will throw in my two cents. Because sometimes it takes an outside view to see what changes may be needed. And even if I am wrong, I respect those who point it out.
PS: Happy holidays everyone!
PPS: Thanks for the free pet ZOS!
People are going to try to discredit each other regardless of account achievements, I have been getting attacked this entire form for even suggesting that the time I put into this game be visible, making all kinds of assumptions about what ‘people’ would do with this tool, and how elitest of a concept it is to even suggest. lol
It’s interesting to see people’s perspective from the other side, what little trust they have in each other to use the concept for constructive conversations instead of a tool for division.
Its your *idea* that is being attacked. No one that I can see is against "you" for "even suggesting"- they're against the idea, because they can see problems with it. Honestly, suggest whatever you like. We all want content to scroll through. If anything, putting such an emotional spin on this only weakens your case.14 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OpposedThe_Titan_Tim wrote: »DMuehlhausen wrote: »The only thing that should be on our forum accounts for what you are suggesting is how many years in Software/Game Development people have. Cause the loudest people frankly have 0 clue how it works, and the time it takes, and why you can't fix and catch every bug.
You just made my point, why are you opposed?
If you can't see the issue with this...then well not sure what to say.6 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OpposedThe_Titan_Tim wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »What would end up happening is this: you don't have X achievement - then you don't have right to speak / what you are saying is irrelevant... which is like um... bad idea.
I would hope that it would not come to that. . .
It feels like it 'comes to that' in your original post.9 -
Hlaaluna✭✭✭OpposedIt is important to not lose sight of the fact that we play games for entertainment. It really isn’t that important to lose sleep over. Achievements do not prove a persons wisdom or ability to provide accurate and precise advice. We can all blunder our way through achievements. It does not prove any true understanding though, just that we made it somehow.9 -
Blood_again✭✭✭✭✭OpposedThe_Titan_Tim wrote: »Software/Game Development people being the ones who should speak on fixing the bugs we’re experiencing in the game
If that is the idea you support, I got it. Again, we interpret the quotation in different way.
Anyway, I don't agree with this either. I see a gatekeeping here too.
Thank you for clarification.2 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In FavorIt is important to not lose sight of the fact that we play games for entertainment. It really isn’t that important to lose sleep over. Achievements do not prove a persons wisdom or ability to provide accurate and precise advice. We can all blunder our way through achievements. It does not prove any true understanding though, just that we made it somehow.
Interesting perspective! I agree that some achievements can just kind of happen, as you’re playing the content.
Although, some content takes time and dedication…
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DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OpposedHere is a simple example.
I'm in a guild, that I love being in the people are great, that has a level / tier system and requirement for trials. They run a weekly Vet SS. They have that has a level 2 trial. I'm like 2 points short of being level 2. I've done Vet VSS HM though, but even with that "achievement" I'm blocked from joining this trial.
Achievements mean nothing ultimately on even skill for the game. Bang your head against them long enough and even average players will get basically everyone in the game. Want to view other people's acchievements to see if they are "worthy" to talk on a topic is just ego stroking at best.5 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In FavorDMuehlhausen wrote: »Here is a simple example.
I'm in a guild, that I love being in the people are great, that has a level / tier system and requirement for trials. They run a weekly Vet SS. They have that has a level 2 trial. I'm like 2 points short of being level 2. I've done Vet VSS HM though, but even with that "achievement" I'm blocked from joining this trial.
Achievements mean nothing ultimately on even skill for the game. Bang your head against them long enough and even average players will get basically everyone in the game. Want to view other people's acchievements to see if they are "worthy" to talk on a topic is just ego stroking at best.
Then you’re in a toxic guild, idk what to tell you.
I don’t even raid, but because I’m a well enough known player I got pulled into a Gryphon Heart prog and got to Exe with 36 vitality for someone else to drop an ice in the group.
It’s not an ego stroke, because at the end of the day, how can I expect you to respect my content when you haven’t even played it?
If you had achievements leading up to one we were debating, and you were actively working towards the one on topic, you would have a stake in the conversation, nobody would try to disregard you. It’s the guy with 10,000 hours in Cyrodiil that has completed only 23 veteran dungeons telling other people that Sorcerer pet builds don’t do enough damage for trifectas that would get shut down.
It would help identify trolls.Edited by The_Titan_Tim on December 23, 2022 3:16PM2 -
robwolf666✭✭✭✭✭
✭OpposedI don't really see the point in them being visible. Personally, I couldn't care less if someone else doesn't believe I've got a particular achievement. I know if I have or not, their belief isn't a requirement.9 -
NeKryXe✭✭✭✭✭
✭OpposedI'd prefer an optional public profile page out of the forum than this.
Edited by NeKryXe on December 23, 2022 3:31PM3 -
Four_Fingers✭✭✭✭✭
✭OpposedYou forget ZOS doesn't do their own forum software it is provided by Vanilla Forums, so integrating separate database queries and keeping them updated would be difficult and expensive.Edited by Four_Fingers on December 23, 2022 3:37PM3 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OpposedThe_Titan_Tim wrote: »DMuehlhausen wrote: »Here is a simple example.
I'm in a guild, that I love being in the people are great, that has a level / tier system and requirement for trials. They run a weekly Vet SS. They have that has a level 2 trial. I'm like 2 points short of being level 2. I've done Vet VSS HM though, but even with that "achievement" I'm blocked from joining this trial.
Achievements mean nothing ultimately on even skill for the game. Bang your head against them long enough and even average players will get basically everyone in the game. Want to view other people's acchievements to see if they are "worthy" to talk on a topic is just ego stroking at best.
Then you’re in a toxic guild, idk what to tell you.
I don’t even raid, but because I’m a well enough known player I got pulled into a Gryphon Heart prog and got to Exe with 36 vitality for someone else to drop an ice in the group.
It’s not an ego stroke, because at the end of the day, how can I expect you to respect my content when you haven’t even played it?
If you had achievements leading up to one we were debating, and you were actively working towards the one on topic, you would have a stake in the conversation, nobody would try to disregard you. It’s the guy with 10,000 hours in Cyrodiil that has completed only 23 veteran dungeons telling other people that Sorcerer pet builds don’t do enough damage for trifectas that would get shut down.
It would help identify trolls.
It's farthest from a toxic guild as you can get really. We've been mentioned on several ESO LIve streams and featured in a few other things as well.
It wouldn't just be the PvPer being shut down it would lead to people with tons of achievements shutting out other people because they don't have the same amount so they aren't worth my time. This is just lead to nothing but issues and gatekeeping and trying to shut people out. It would essentially become what modern day US politics are. If you don't have enough achievements you aren't on our team it would be absolute chaos.7 -
Freelancer_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭OpposedI think it might be beneficial for the internal version to have a degree of that functionality but I think the public facing version would serve relatively little benefit as it would likely expand infighting.
Forums have a tendency to over-represent certain groups and the staff aren't necessarily present enough to always notice.
You'd likely find that players with more achievements would care less about those that have less and vis versa and might stir up arguments about it and increase the level of toxicity on forums.4 -
Soarora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OpposedI know what you’re talking about but I’m not sure it’s even possible and I don’t think people would be happy. You can already tell when people don’t know what they’re talking about and people can give information with consent through their forum signature or bio, which is exactly the reason I have a signature at all. Kept being talked to as if I don’t know what I’m talking about ahaha.[PC/NA] Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS), Retired Trialist, and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore.- Current GM of Hard Dungeoneers
- Tanks: Sorcerer - Necromancer - Templar
- DPS: Frost Warden - Stamarc
- Ex-healer
- Dungeons: 32/32 HMs - 26/26 Tris
View my builds!
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spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OpposedThe_Titan_Tim wrote: »If you had achievements leading up to one we were debating, and you were actively working towards the one on topic, you would have a stake in the conversation, nobody would try to disregard you. It’s the guy with 10,000 hours in Cyrodiil that has completed only 23 veteran dungeons telling other people that Sorcerer pet builds don’t do enough damage for trifectas that would get shut down.
It would help identify trolls.
Trolls? Someone isn't a troll because they are a PvPer struggling to do vet pve content. This is exactly what I mean about the kind of thing that would happen though. The purpose of a system like this one is to try to undermine an argument by discrediting the user rather than the logic of the argument.
If the argument is sound, then it is sound regardless of who it is coming from.
If it is not sound, then the would be profile snoop should be capable of defeating it by discrediting the argument. If they cannot do that, then their counter argument is weak. And they don't deserve a pass for weak reasoning because they have some gameplay achievement.Edited by spartaxoxo on December 23, 2022 3:55PM20 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OpposedNo.
I don't even want people to know who I am in game.Edited by Holycannoli on December 23, 2022 6:32PM6 -
KlauthWarthog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OpposedI would run out of popcorn long before the ensuing flame wars died out, and flame wars require popcorn to properly enjoy.7 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Opposed@The_Titan_Tim Wow, you are really passionate about it. I can respect that. And I also get where you are coming from. I'd like to know too whether someone is knowledgeable or just full of... ahm... himself. 😉
But a good argument is easily recognisable by its strength, not the person who made it. You have to use your own brain though. What you are seeking essentially is authority authentification. Again, I totally get that.
If someone doesn't recognise my one of my arguments and just starts writing random stuff, that is vaguely connected to the OP's or my topic, I will scroll down and ignore them. But that is my decision. And how I personally approach a discussion about fictional problems in a virtual existence. 😅No Effort, No Reward?
No Reward, No Effort!3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OpposedI see this request as a way to discredit anyone that doesn't agree with someone else's opinion.
Poster 1: I believe this.
Poster 2: I disagree.
Poster 1: Well you don't have this achievement so you are wrong!PCNA14 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OpposedSo we could identify someone who hasn't completed a particular achievement but couldn't identify someone who doesn't even play the game any more?
No thanks.7
This discussion has been closed.