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Should our in-game achievements be visible on our Forum Accounts?
The_Titan_Tim
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Lately I feel as though I’ve been talking to people about topics that they have not the slightest clue about, yet have extremely strong opinions over.
Not to discredit people that are new to the game or are trying to get involved in the community, as a baseline, playing the game a little bit before jumping into forums about balance would be nice.
I am of the belief that our in-game achievements should be visibly attached to our Forum Accounts, this would help to shed some light on whether people having these heated debates about changes or better yet, nerfs or buffs, are talking from experience using that thing in question, or from emotions as not having found a way to combat the problem yet.
There have been quite a few extreme opinions flying around about how the game should be, which is understandable, it would help create constructive conversations to be able to see where people are at, and how invested they are in the topic they are contributing to.
Edited by Psiion on December 31, 2022 1:07AM Not to discredit people that are new to the game or are trying to get involved in the community, as a baseline, playing the game a little bit before jumping into forums about balance would be nice.
I am of the belief that our in-game achievements should be visibly attached to our Forum Accounts, this would help to shed some light on whether people having these heated debates about changes or better yet, nerfs or buffs, are talking from experience using that thing in question, or from emotions as not having found a way to combat the problem yet.
There have been quite a few extreme opinions flying around about how the game should be, which is understandable, it would help create constructive conversations to be able to see where people are at, and how invested they are in the topic they are contributing to.
Should our in-game achievements be visible on our Forum Accounts? 226 votes
In Favor
25%
57 votes
Opposed
74%
169 votes
5
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opalcity✭✭✭✭✭OpposedYou say "not to discredit people" but this sounds exactly like what you're trying to do.
Now this sounds like gatekeeping.
48 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In FavorYou say "not to discredit people" but this sounds exactly like what you're trying to do.
Now this sounds like gatekeeping.
If I have every single quest achievement in the game but none in veteran trials, should people know that especially If I’m on a forum talking about veteran trials? Especially when those uninformed voices have potential to change my content?
Nothing tells, like experience, and if you work hard for something, I believe you should be able to represent that.
Everything in the game is equal opportunity, it just takes the will to achieve it, and if you have 50 AvA kills total, and you’re complaining about Templars over-performing loudly, that should be public knowledge readily accessible.9 -
Shihp00✭✭✭The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Lately I feel as though I’ve been talking to people about topics that they have not the slightest clue about, yet have extremely strong opinions over.
idc because mine is linked to an empty one
but I totally agree with this sentence. Most things people type in the forums does Not reflect how they play in game 
[snip]
[edited for mild baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 25, 2022 5:00PM6 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OpposedWhat would end up happening is this: you don't have X achievement - then you don't have right to speak / what you are saying is irrelevant... which is like um... bad idea.36 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In FavorThe_Titan_Tim wrote: »Lately I feel as though I’ve been talking to people about topics that they have not the slightest clue about, yet have extremely strong opinions over.
idc because mine is linked to an empty one but I totally agree with this sentence. Most things people type in the forums does Not reflect how they play in game [snip]
Yeah… unfortunately. There have been quite a few people talking about Veteran Overland and questing changes too, that haven’t even completed the main storyline yet.
Being able to represent what type of player we are, by a click on our profile and achievement list like in-game would be an incredible change that would help shed light.
Not everyone who has every achievement will have the majority’s interests in mind, which would have to be taken into account, but it would be a helpful guide nonetheless.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 25, 2022 5:07PM1 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In FavorTommy_The_Gun wrote: »What would end up happening is this: you don't have X achievement - then you don't have right to speak / what you are saying is irrelevant... which is like um... bad idea.
I would hope that it would not come to that, if a change like this were implemented because I believe everyone has a voice and should be heard, but our experience in a topic should be visible.
When you see someone with most trifectas, including Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, and Planesbreaker, saying that Rockgrove hard mode is too demanding, that would matter so much for people, especially the newer players trying to get to the point that player is at.
Not being able to differentiate works to discredit people that have knowledge in the topic.2 -
Grizzbeorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭In FavorIn an attempt to be magnanimous, I made a bad assumption and voted before reading your accompanying text.
I think it would be nice if we ourselves were able to see *our* character info outside of the game.
But giving other people the ability to see our info is a big NO.
There is already enough gatekeeping between players in the game; it shouldn't be dragged into the forum as well.
21 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In FavorGrizzbeorn wrote: »In an attempt to be magnanimous, I made a bad assumption and voted before reading your accompanying text.
I think it would be nice if we ourselves were able to see *our* character info outside of the game.
But giving other people the ability to see our info is a big NO.
There is already enough gatekeeping between players in the game; it shouldn't be dragged into the forum as well.
Would that be considered gatekeeping? Don’t you need a degree to host certain seminars? How is it that someone who has no stake in a topic, has the ability to destroy the content for people.
Look at it this way…
People knew Templar was overperforming, it was all over the forums, but people couldn’t isolate the real problems and pain points of the class. There were a sea of voices all shouting for nerfs, and oh did we get them.
All of the wrong things were changed, and now the class is dead for 2/3 of the people playing it, because the 5/6ths of people that chose other classes were louder than the actual Templars that recognized, from experience, how the class was overperforming.
The “Class Representative” program ended and nothing took its place, and this is where we are.2 -
bmnoble✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OpposedHow do you determine if the person got some or most of their vet content achievements via paid carries?
I could not care less what achievements/titles people have, everyone on here has the opportunity to state their opinions about the game, just as you are free to state why you disagree with them, that is the entire point of the forum.
All I see this kinda thing doing is people using people achievements as a excuse to forgo an actual argument of why they disagree with a post and simply reply with the pointless "learn to play"20 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's pretty obvious to anyone who does certain content which people know what they are talking about and which ones are talking out their ... elbow.9 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In FavorHow do you determine if the person got some or most of their vet content achievements via paid carries?
I could not care less what achievements/titles people have, everyone on here has the opportunity to state their opinions about the game, just as you are free to state why you disagree with them, that is the entire point of the forum.
All I see this kinda thing doing is people using people achievements as a excuse to forgo an actual argument of why they disagree with a post and simply reply with the pointless "learn to play"
An easy remedy to your first point, would be, when in doubt, look at quantity over quality. If someone has one or two trifectas, and no other veteran DLC dungeon achievements, it would be blatantly obvious.1 -
Grizzbeorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭In FavorThe_Titan_Tim wrote: »Would that be considered gatekeeping? Don’t you need a degree to host certain seminars? How is it that someone who has no stake in a topic, has the ability to destroy the content for people.
Look at it this way…
People knew Templar was overperforming, it was all over the forums, but people couldn’t isolate the real problems and pain points of the class. There were a sea of voices all shouting for nerfs, and oh did we get them.
All of the wrong things were changed, and now the class is dead for 2/3 of the people playing it, because the 5/6ths of people that chose other classes were louder than the actual Templars that recognized, from experience, how the class was overperforming.
The “Class Representative” program ended and nothing took its place, and this is where we are.
You are giving players way too much credit, *especially* since they ended the Class Representative program, for the changes that happen in this game.
The driving force behind change is game data. Numbers. Information to which we don't have access.
That data has far higher priority than player opinion.
The forums wouldn't be on fire to the degree that they are right now, most acutely since U35, if they paid as much attention to player opinion as you are claiming.
8 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In FavorGrizzbeorn wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Would that be considered gatekeeping? Don’t you need a degree to host certain seminars? How is it that someone who has no stake in a topic, has the ability to destroy the content for people.
Look at it this way…
People knew Templar was overperforming, it was all over the forums, but people couldn’t isolate the real problems and pain points of the class. There were a sea of voices all shouting for nerfs, and oh did we get them.
All of the wrong things were changed, and now the class is dead for 2/3 of the people playing it, because the 5/6ths of people that chose other classes were louder than the actual Templars that recognized, from experience, how the class was overperforming.
The “Class Representative” program ended and nothing took its place, and this is where we are.
You are giving players way too much credit, *especially* since they ended the Class Representative program, for the changes that happen in this game.
The driving force behind change is game data. Numbers. Information to which we don't have access.
That data has far higher priority than player opinion.
The forums wouldn't be on fire to the degree that they are right now, most acutely since U35, if they paid as much attention to player opinion as you are claiming.
Did I imagine all of the people complaining how powerful Jabs were? Or how broken Power of the Light was? Now the class has no teeth.0 -
Blood_again✭✭✭✭✭OpposedThe_Titan_Tim wrote: »If I have every single quest achievement in the game but none in veteran trials, should people know that especially If I’m on a forum talking about veteran trials? Especially when those uninformed voices have potential to change my content?
It sounds even more like a gatekeeping now.
Сhanging some private info status to public in purpose to make peoples' words weigh less is a strong and toxic change.
In opposite, an argument about somebody's voice that have potential to change content (your content?) is weak. It is a huge distance between forum discussions and ingame changes. If you think developers seriously changed content for forum voting only, without checking real game stats and further data research, I guess you should trust them a bit more.
So you ask for a strong change based on a weak justification.The_Titan_Tim wrote: »whether people having these heated debates about changes or better yet, nerfs or buffs, are talking from experience or from emotions
If I have 'Flawless' achievement, may I speak about poisonous fungus mechanic with emotions, please? I do have a lot of emotions about it, strictly connected with my experience.
If I don't have achievement, my emotions are definitely invalid, for sure
14 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In FavorBlood_again wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »If I have every single quest achievement in the game but none in veteran trials, should people know that especially If I’m on a forum talking about veteran trials? Especially when those uninformed voices have potential to change my content?
It sounds even more like a gatekeeping now.
Сhanging some private info status to public in purpose to make peoples' words weigh less is a strong and toxic change.
In opposite, an argument about somebody's voice that have potential to change content (your content?) is weak. It is a huge distance between forum discussions and ingame changes. If you think developers seriously changed content for forum voting only, without checking real game stats and further data research, I guess you should trust them a bit more.
So you ask for a strong change based on a weak justification.The_Titan_Tim wrote: »whether people having these heated debates about changes or better yet, nerfs or buffs, are talking from experience or from emotions
If I have 'Flawless' achievement, may I speak about poisonous fungus mechanic with emotions, please? I do have a lot of emotions about it, strictly connected with my experience.
If I don't have achievement, my emotions are definitely invalid, for sure
That is your assumption, and your interpretation. If you feel like it’s gatekeeping for people to have a stake in what it is they are taking about, a visible one at that, then you should join the NBA, you’re 5 feet tall, but you got this. While you’re there, be sure to critique their form, as you know best.Edited by The_Titan_Tim on December 23, 2022 12:04PM1 -
fizl101✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OpposedThe_Titan_Tim wrote: »How do you determine if the person got some or most of their vet content achievements via paid carries?
I could not care less what achievements/titles people have, everyone on here has the opportunity to state their opinions about the game, just as you are free to state why you disagree with them, that is the entire point of the forum.
All I see this kinda thing doing is people using people achievements as a excuse to forgo an actual argument of why they disagree with a post and simply reply with the pointless "learn to play"
An easy remedy to your first point, would be, when in doubt, look at quantity over quality. If someone has one or two trifectas, and no other veteran DLC dungeon achievements, it would be blatantly obvious.
It really wouldnt. I enjoy trials, its one of my favorite content, but I rarely run dungeons, only if I need gear or helping someone get gear/leads. I’ve never paid for a carry
Soupy twist2 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OpposedI think you're taking what you do in game a little too seriously.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 25, 2022 5:04PM22 -
DinoZavr✭✭✭✭✭
✭OpposedPlease, no.
This will only heat trolls and increase the number of personal attacks like "how dare you n00b to speak in my royal presence".PC EU19 -
Grizzbeorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭In FavorThe_Titan_Tim wrote: »Grizzbeorn wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Would that be considered gatekeeping? Don’t you need a degree to host certain seminars? How is it that someone who has no stake in a topic, has the ability to destroy the content for people.
Look at it this way…
People knew Templar was overperforming, it was all over the forums, but people couldn’t isolate the real problems and pain points of the class. There were a sea of voices all shouting for nerfs, and oh did we get them.
All of the wrong things were changed, and now the class is dead for 2/3 of the people playing it, because the 5/6ths of people that chose other classes were louder than the actual Templars that recognized, from experience, how the class was overperforming.
The “Class Representative” program ended and nothing took its place, and this is where we are.
You are giving players way too much credit, *especially* since they ended the Class Representative program, for the changes that happen in this game.
The driving force behind change is game data. Numbers. Information to which we don't have access.
That data has far higher priority than player opinion.
The forums wouldn't be on fire to the degree that they are right now, most acutely since U35, if they paid as much attention to player opinion as you are claiming.
Did I imagine all of the people complaining how powerful Jabs were? Or how broken Power of the Light was? Now the class has no teeth.
They don't make change based solely on player opinion.
They wouldn't have made a change that was out of line with their internal philosophy.
Game data, not player opinion, gives them that info.
There are far more things than Templar skills going on in the game right now about which people are very loudly angry that *aren't* getting changed.
If player opinion was as powerful as you think, AwA and U35 would have both been reverted.6 -
TechMaybeHic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OpposedAnd FWIW; a lot of players I know that know a lot in game, have different forum accounts than in game accounts because they probably went a little too far protesting some changes.6 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OpposedIf Jill can't invalidate Jack's argument without resorting to attacking his profile, then her arguments are weak and don't deserve the perception of legitimacy that having a "better" profile would give her.Edited by spartaxoxo on December 23, 2022 12:18PM18 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In FavorTechMaybeHic wrote: »I think you're taking what you do in game a little too seriously.
[snip]
How so? I don’t have those achievements. I wouldn’t be caught dead in a discussion about trial speed runs, I have no stake in it. What’s with the attack too?
What happened to pride in accomplishment?
If people actually played their game, more than they dwelled on how it would suit them better, this change wouldn’t be scary for them.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 25, 2022 5:05PM4 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In Favorspartaxoxo wrote: »If Jill can't invalidate Jack's argument without resorting to attacking his profile, then her arguments are weak and don't deserve the perception of legitimacy that having a "better" profile would give her.
Understandable, you’re using the worst case scenario to try to eliminate the good that would come from a change like this.
If someone attacked someone solely for their profile, it would be considered bashing and get taken down.2 -
endgamesmug✭✭✭✭OpposedMy accounts not connected to my ingame accounts so wouldnt work anyway. Besides peacocking has never been my style, i have a ton of titles on my main account and have never used one in all the years ive been playing.11
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The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In Favorendgamesmug wrote: »My accounts not connected to my ingame accounts so wouldnt work anyway. Besides peacocking has never been my style, i have a ton of titles on my main account and have never used one in all the years ive been playing.
I’ve been hearing that a lot since posting this poll, that people have been forced to make new accounts over debating topics.
That’s extremely unfortunate if that’s what happened to you, I don’t believe people should be censored unless they are preaching hate, if it’s a debate about in-game mechanics; the censorship makes no sense to me.
And for the record, I have no trial trifectas, it’s not about Peacocking as it’s not my thing either, but I have done a lot of PvP, and having class specifics, like time played, or player kills on each of my classes would be a nice thing for people to see, to add context to the topics I’m speaking about.
They wouldn’t even have to implement this with the in-game achievements if that would be too scary for people; for it to be successful, just a generalized stats and time-in-content would be sufficient.0 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OpposedThe only thing that should be on our forum accounts for what you are suggesting is how many years in Software/Game Development people have. Cause the loudest people frankly have 0 clue how it works, and the time it takes, and why you can't fix and catch every bug.8 -
The_Titan_Tim✭✭✭✭✭In FavorDMuehlhausen wrote: »The only thing that should be on our forum accounts for what you are suggesting is how many years in Software/Game Development people have. Cause the loudest people frankly have 0 clue how it works, and the time it takes, and why you can't fix and catch every bug.
You just made my point, why are you opposed?0 -
Blood_again✭✭✭✭✭OpposedThe_Titan_Tim wrote: »Blood_again wrote: »If you think developers seriously changed content for forum voting only, without checking real game stats and further data research, I guess you should trust them a bit more.
That is your assumption, and your interpretation. If you feel like it’s gatekeeping for people to have a stake in what it is they are taking about, a visible one at that, then you should join the NBA, you’re 5 feet tall, but you got this. While you’re there, be sure to critique their form, as you know best.
You missed the point why "your content" was changed. It happened because of stats of thousand battles was checked. Not because thousand of malicious unexperienced players called to nerf templars. After, maybe, not because.
You may be 5 feet tall in your area of expertise, but ingame changes work in other way. If even you got you forum profile changes, you would be terrified with the next nerf, although high achievement holders didn't want that nerf. Why nerf? The right people said so much right things on forum!
Really, if you can manage trial boss mechanics, why the content changes mechanic is not obvious for you? Trials are more complex.2
This discussion has been closed.