Kingsindarkness wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

There were people outside those two groups you particularly target every time, so relax.

70 Stream team members how many represent those who don't Raid or PVP? ...Who didn't get a word in edgewise by his own admission, and it really still doesn't account for anything else I mentioned...

Sit back and let the "Vets" handle it never ends well.

you misheard. he said he took over in some instances. he said they)the other stream team members) agreed with him.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

Nefas just posted a really good video summarizing a conversation he and the stream team had with the devs & community managers. Might be worth looking at.

https://youtu.be/Z5UAVDMDMMI

This was a really informational video done by nefas highlighting the pain points the players have been feeling, and zos themselves listening to feedback on.

Nefas even goes into detail about how "they're well aware" of their retention issues as well as other pain points and want feedback to make the game better.

Kind of pokes a hole in that whole "doing it for clicks" POV since the devs see the same writing everyone else sees. If you've had doubts, you SHOULD watch this.

Currently watching this myself, it's really interesting and telling.

I've never understood the undeserved hate that so many content creators get from many here on the forums. It's like there's an infestation of denialism and "anti-negativity at all costs" going on where people just cannot accept that the game is not in a healthy place at the moment and that the company and dev team needs to hear the criticisms (especially the valid and constructive criticisms) to help them to steer it back in the right direction to keep it growing and improving for many years to come, which is what we all should want.

The vast majority of content creators do it because they love the game, not because it gets them views and the proof is in the numbers.

Just look at the numbers for games like minecraft, fortnight, COD, BF, DotA, League, etc compared to ESO. All of those other games get insane viewer numbers that eso content creators could only dream of even during the best of times, yet the content creators are still doing eso content and have only really branched out within the past month or so due to the game itself becoming barely playable for how they enjoy playing the game.

If the content creators were only in it for the views or the clicks as is claimed by some, then those creators would have permanently switched over to another more popular game a long long time ago and would never even consider playing ESO or creating content for it again.

There's a very "yes man" approach on the forums, partially created because of how harsh the moderation team can be at times. There are messages that absolutely should not exist, but there's also just a heavy hand in a lot of moderation that funnels a lot of warranted negativity from the forums. This leaves you with an echo chamber of positivity that isn't indicative of the actual player base.

It's always fun to come on the forums and see the perspective here because it's vastly different than youtube, twitch and discord. It's not that anyone here is wrong. There are plenty of people that ARE happy with this game and they should be mentioned as well(like I do in my videos). There's also a lot of unhappy players because their content does not work, is not being worked on, etc.

ESO happiness/unhappiness isn't black and white, it's a lot of gray that we all inhabit, and those that think it's an either/or thing are just living in their own echo chamber and should at least hear out the other perspective. We'd all be a lot better off for it.

Yes it's for content, but it wouldn't be interesting if there wasn't at least some truth in it.

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

ESO happiness/unhappiness isn't black and white, it's a lot of gray that we all inhabit, and those that think it's an either/or thing are just living in their own echo chamber and should at least hear out the other perspective. We'd all be a lot better off for it.

On that, I'll agree...my concern is we are going to end up having the game steered by a few content creators and their rabid fans...I mean talk about Echo chamber, say anything against a Streamer, and his calvary will charge over the hill to shout you down.

Can't get more Echoy than that.

I don't know any streamers with that loyal of a following anymore, other than maybe one. And he's very, very casual focused so his followers are a lot closer to what you seem to want based on what you say here. I don't think you have anything to worry about from that perspective.

Destai wrote: »

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

Nefas just posted a really good video summarizing a conversation he and the stream team had with the devs & community managers. Might be worth looking at.

He did a really good job with this video and I appreciate him being candid with the community managers. Hopefully it starts to sink in. I find myself mostly in agreement with him, except for his take on the Q&A. It's a bad look they're not updating it - regardless of whether they're giving us one or not.

My take away is honestly just disappointment. It's good they reached out to the Stream Team but it's really alarming that they're struggling with communication this far into the game. All the points Nefas made I know I've made and many others have made for the last few years. It's hard not to feel like they're ignoring the forums. Furthermore, Gina asked something similar last year with the "what's communication" tweet. Seeing that from a supposedly seasoned professional is shocking. But like I said, I'm happy they reached out and got a more unfiltered and direct take on what's happening with the community. Hopefully it amounts to something, but seeing is believing.

Yeah I came away with the same conclusion and had a different opinion on communication as well. My perspective is that I just want them to do what they say they're going to do. If you're going to re-architect the servers in 2022 and provide periodic updates, then provide periodic updates and not one in November of 2022 that it's happening in 2023.

If you're going to say you're doing a Q and A, then do the Q and A. I'm not expecting any more or any less than what they say they're going to do.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I've never understood the undeserved hate that so many content creators get from many here on the forums. It's like there's an infestation of denialism and "anti-negativity at all costs" going on where people just cannot accept that the game is not in a healthy place at the moment

For me, it has nothing to do with defending ESO from negativity, but just from an overall general not understanding why "content creators"/streaming is even a thing, let along something that some people are making (vast amounts of) money at. No particular 'hate' for ESO content creators, just the entire content creator concept & people having this bizarre idea that it's somehow important to gaming, at all.

Yes, yes - <old man yells at cloud.gif>

seventy_kg wrote: »

also the game needs another mega server, Asia Pacific and Oceanic players need to be able to play the game with less than 200 ping

I quite understand that, so let's hope that enough of the 2 million new players this year live in those areas to warrant not one but three new megaservers as clearly you couldn't add only one megaserver and leave the other platforms out of it.

As far as ESO's viewership numbers, my observation is that the numbers tend to follow the streamers, not the games being streamed. That is to say, a lot of people seem to watch specific streamers and will tune in to see them play-- and chat, or whatever-- regardless of what game they happen to be playing.

Case in point: I like to watch some of the older TES games being played, but you will almost never see Arena or Daggerfall drawing more than a few viewers.

Yet there have been times when I've opened up Twitch and-- WTF?-- there were hundreds of viewers watching Arena, and there was only one streamer playing Arena! Ah, it was a streamer I'd never heard of, but who has very loyal followers who number in the hundreds, and he had decided to do a playthrough of Arena-- on an old computer and loaded from the old diskettes, of all things. Day after day, he would continue his playthrough of Arena, and each day he would have hundreds of viewers watching him. Yet now that he's long since moved on to other games, Arena is back to having less than a dozen viewers, even on days when there are multiple streamers playing it at the same time.

Today I noticed the same thing with Daggerfall-- hundreds of viewers, all watching a single streamer playing Daggerfall. More people were watching Daggerfall than any of the other TES games except for ESO.

Right now the more popular streamers who used to play ESO-- the ones who can draw in a thousand viewers or more-- aren't playing ESO. Some of them do come back to play and stream ESO for a time, and when they do the viewership numbers for ESO always go way up. Then they move on to something else (again), and ESO's viewership numbers go down again.

I won't try to analyze why some streamers can consistently draw hundreds or thousands of viewers regardless of what game they happen to be playing, because I think there can be several different reasons-- personality, information, skill, action, etc.-- and it won't be the same reasons for every streamer, or even for every one of a given streamer's viewers. But the streamers who tend to play ESO most of the time, with perhaps a few other games thrown in on occasion, don't seem to have those huge viewership numbers for whatever reasons. They do have faithful viewers who like to tune in regularly, but they don't seem to have huge numbers the way some streamers do. And oddly enough, they also tend to have positive attitudes about the game, rather than seeming to be constantly critical of it. Several of them do play trials, so they're clearly "end-game players," but the fact that they aren't bashing the game seems to keep a lot of viewers from following them, as though they aren't sensational enough. Or maybe they just aren't "clicking" with a lot of viewers who feel unhappy about the game and are looking for others who feel the same way? I don't know.

@SeaGtGruff speaking for myself mostly what I watch is starcraft 2 streams. when even my favourite streamers start streaming something else i usually turn off the stream.
I don't care about AOE4 or whatever else, I'm there for only 1 game.

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

I don’t know who they are. I never watched their streams either. ESO is in pretty bad shape. Seems developers themselves ditched the game and milking the dying cow. Nothing flashy in any of the past years. Only a miracle can save the game from downtrend.

while every patch this year has had some kind of release problem, i think that things will improve next year mainly for 2 reasons:

• stadia will be dead, so they wont have to deal with "certification" on patches which should help get things fixed much faster
• less trying to just churn out large batches of lower quality content, but (if things go according to their proposal) are able to churn out better quality content and focus a little more on QoL and actually fixing things, the situation may improve

Tannus15 wrote: »

@SeaGtGruff speaking for myself mostly what I watch is starcraft 2 streams. when even my favourite streamers start streaming something else i usually turn off the stream.
I don't care about AOE4 or whatever else, I'm there for only 1 game.

@Tannus15, I'm like you in that respect-- I follow the game(s) more than the streamers.

I do occasionally develop a fondness for certain streamers and will continue to tune in after they've finished playing whatever game they were originally streaming when I first came across their channel-- but I'm much less inclined to continue watching them unless they're playing one of the other TES games, or some RPG I'm already familiar with or am curious about. Generally speaking, once they've finished their playthrough(s) of the TES game(s) I was watching them play, I tend to tune into someone else's channel.

But it seems as if a lot of other viewers are more likely to follow the streamer rather than the specific game being streamed. Or maybe a sizable percentage of their followers and viewers are actually bots or whatdver? I don't know.

Agenericname wrote: »

I don't begrudge Gina asking what communication means. I think it was phrased as "what does it is mean to you?" As in, "what exactly are you looking for?" Fine, but there hasnt been a follow up in my opinion.

Asking about communication seems to be a recurring theme. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why it is such problem for them that they need to ask every year. I'd really love to have them explain it to me because I must be missing something terribly fundamental.

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

Nefas just posted a really good video summarizing a conversation he and the stream team had with the devs & community managers. Might be worth looking at.

He did a really good job with this video and I appreciate him being candid with the community managers. Hopefully it starts to sink in. I find myself mostly in agreement with him, except for his take on the Q&A. It's a bad look they're not updating it - regardless of whether they're giving us one or not.

My take away is honestly just disappointment. It's good they reached out to the Stream Team but it's really alarming that they're struggling with communication this far into the game. All the points Nefas made I know I've made and many others have made for the last few years. It's hard not to feel like they're ignoring the forums. Furthermore, Gina asked something similar last year with the "what's communication" tweet. Seeing that from a supposedly seasoned professional is shocking. But like I said, I'm happy they reached out and got a more unfiltered and direct take on what's happening with the community. Hopefully it amounts to something, but seeing is believing.

I think it is good that community managers had a get together with the stream team but I think it is the wrong group on the ZOS side. The folks that should have been involved are the ones that make the actual decisions and control the design and direction. They are the group that needs to hear the unfiltered concerns and issues of the player base as they are the only ones that can address them. While the community managers are nice enough people, and I think they really do wish to help resolve player concerns, the fact is they can do nothing more than relay what they think they heard to development and respond with whatever development tells them to.

That’s the point of ZOS’s community team though

Agenericname wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

HappyTheCamper wrote: »

Nefas just posted a really good video summarizing a conversation he and the stream team had with the devs & community managers. Might be worth looking at.

He did a really good job with this video and I appreciate him being candid with the community managers. Hopefully it starts to sink in. I find myself mostly in agreement with him, except for his take on the Q&A. It's a bad look they're not updating it - regardless of whether they're giving us one or not.

My take away is honestly just disappointment. It's good they reached out to the Stream Team but it's really alarming that they're struggling with communication this far into the game. All the points Nefas made I know I've made and many others have made for the last few years. It's hard not to feel like they're ignoring the forums. Furthermore, Gina asked something similar last year with the "what's communication" tweet. Seeing that from a supposedly seasoned professional is shocking. But like I said, I'm happy they reached out and got a more unfiltered and direct take on what's happening with the community. Hopefully it amounts to something, but seeing is believing.

I don't begrudge Gina asking what communication means. I think it was phrased as "what does it is mean to you?" As in, "what exactly are you looking for?" Fine, but there hasnt been a follow up in my opinion.

I'm glad that they got the information from the stream team, but, Im left wondering, where's the QnA? We've waited two months for an update. Not the QnA, an update. The impression that Im left with is, if you're not a streamer, your voice doesnt matter to them.

She asked that on Twitter and I had to beg Kevin to get her over here. When she did, it was an excuse about having industry talk on her Twitter. I think my response is linked in my signature. But, she couldn’t be bothered to give us more than one response before disappearing. Nevermind our questions, feedback, and concerns. That completely ruined her image for me. So I agree with you 100%. Us everyday folk, our opinions don’t typically warrant a response.