What do you all think of the doom saying about the game by content creators?

karthrag_inak · December 2022

"Content Creators" ? pbbbt. Can khajiit play this content that they "create"? No? Then is not content, is it? How is a video of them playing the game and "waxing poetic" content?

That is like calling the guy who puts together the highlights video of a sports game an "athlete"

Dr_Con · December 2022

It's difficult to say you are happy playing the game when you can't block.

Rowjoh · December 2022

Like anything else in life its very much a case of the good, the bad, and the ugly.

One often has to go through bad stuff to get to good stuff.

Sometimes you get lucky (or smart!) and find the good stuff earlier rather than later.

Also recognise it for what it is - content creation for games is percieved as an easy bandwagon to jump on, and as such will attract its fair share of incompetent, lazy and copycat individuals.

corrosivechains · December 2022

I believe they have a better look at the bigger picture than most of us. They don't get the exact numbers, but they get to see the trends in interest the game has and when they're saying "hey, people aren't watching my videos, something is wrong" then yes, there is probably something that needs fixed.

And no, not all content creation is "watching other people play games", there are character build videos(which always need updated), there are gold farming videos, auction house tutorial videos, companion guide videos, item drop and unlock videos, tutorials on systems such as ToT and Antiquities, reviews of chapters and DLC content, new and returning player guides, and just general news about announcements and breaking down developer interviews...

Fingolfinn01 · December 2022

Zos is fixing server lag by reducing end game content participation . Raiding is been hit with the wrecking ball. And the game content creators make most of their content around raiding. So I understand why they are so gloomy.

Whether this is true or not I don't know. However it seems that way.

robwolf666 · December 2022

brylars wrote: »

What do you all think of the doom saying about the game by content creators?

My response is a heartfelt roll of the eyes. The thing I've noticed out of the ones I've seen is that they're all PvPers who think the entire game is dying because performance in Cyrodiil sucks. It's not, it won't.

colossalvoids · December 2022

If you have the voice that can be heard, it would be unwise to pass the opportunity to point into what's wrong or great about the product you're dealing with. They perfectly aware that they're being watched alongside their communities, basically melting down feedback of thousands player voices into one monolith. If it's all "doom and gloom" I'd say there's something to it.

Anifaas · December 2022

I think most "content creators" have hit diminishing returns in 2022 and their content is increasingly useless noise designed to generate clicks/engagement. Every topic online is getting yanked around by the fringes while the folks in the middle are reluctant to engage.

Agenericname · December 2022

Lebkuchen wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I play games, I don't watch people playing them.

You mean like football players who don't watch football championships? And all the other athletes who don't watch any sports events? And artist who are not interested in other peoples art? Cooks who only eat their own food? I understand.

I read and I don't watch other people read. This is an RPG, not a bowl game.

I havent watched any of them, or any at all really, but I suspect that our views are similar.

robwolf666 · December 2022

Anifaas wrote: »

I think most "content creators" have hit diminishing returns in 2022 and their content is increasingly useless noise designed to generate clicks/engagement.

Honestly, I stopped paying attention to influencers and content creators after the whole Cyberpunk debacle and the role they played in praising and getting people to buy a broken game. I only watch them now if it's actually live gameplay, but if they start giving an opinion on how good/bad it is, I tune out. If they give a commentary on what they're doing in-game though, fine.

me_ming · December 2022

DirtyDeeds765 wrote: »

I don't think much of it at all because they're playing the game because it's an MMO. Not because its an online Elder Scrolls game. The people who play it because its an online Elder Scrolls game will be the ones that keep it flourishing.

@DirtyDeeds765

I bet the people who play this game because it's an Elder Scrolls game are the first people who will leave ESO once TES VI launches, because they don't like playing an MMO-RPG, because well, you know that's what ESO is, an MMO-RPG. ESO is NOT a single player game. I've never played previous TES games, but I'm still here, and I've been playing this game since 2015.

Elder Scrolls fans are part of this community, but to tell me that you're the only part that's keeping this game alive is completely false. I've seen many Elder Scrolls fans say don't even consider ESO an Elder Scrolls game, that it's lore is not canon.

SaffronCitrusflower · December 2022

I think it's foolish for the players and the company to ignore the feedback coming from the content creators like Nefas and others. These are the players that know the most about how the game works and the status of every aspect of the game. With all the disrespect they get it's no wonder so many of them are moving away from ESO.

Lauranae · December 2022

hummm ... content creator ? what means please ? that they create a content ? which one ? because they dont create ESO for certain.
Do you mean Twitch streamers or streamers generally ? is that is the case, then they are like us, loving or hating the game as we all do.

I am able during a full year to hate the game i play, and throw critics or praise it. Do i have an impact on you all. No.
Streamers will have an impact because you follow them like you would follow a guru.

They have valid opinions, as you have. But their opinions are not better than yours. If you feel that its time for you to hit the button bye, do it and come back later.

All the ...doomsayers ... are just doomsayers. I do not not count the number of games forums full of the same sentences, critics, alerts, that the game is going down, and finished, and though those games are still there with over 10 years of doomsayers along the way.

The best choice you can do is to do your choice by yourself.

Elsonso · December 2022

me_ming wrote: »

DirtyDeeds765 wrote: »

I don't think much of it at all because they're playing the game because it's an MMO. Not because its an online Elder Scrolls game. The people who play it because its an online Elder Scrolls game will be the ones that keep it flourishing.

I bet the people who play this game because it's an Elder Scrolls game are the first people who will leave ESO once TES VI launches, because they don't like playing an MMO-RPG, because well, you know that's what ESO is, an MMO-RPG. ESO is NOT a single player game. I've never played previous TES games, but I'm still here, and I've been playing this game since 2015.

Elder Scrolls fans are part of this community, but to tell me that you're the only part that's keeping this game alive is completely false. I've seen many Elder Scrolls fans say don't even consider ESO an Elder Scrolls game, that it's lore is not canon.

They will be the first people who pick up and play TES 6. That is not the same thing as leaving ESO. Personally, I think the people who would leave ESO for TES 6 are the same people who have already left ESO because it is not Skyrim 2.

As for ESO Lore vs Elder Scrolls Lore... BGS will be the final arbiter of that debate when TES 6 comes out. I think there are Elder Scrolls fans that think BGS will toss ESO under the bus, but I think that ESO Lore will be part of TES 6.

Amottica · December 2022

TaSheen wrote: »

I play games, I don't watch people playing them.

I have always preferred to play the game myself. Never understood why anyone would want to watch someone else play the game instead of doing it themselves.

As for doom and gloom, lol, people have been claiming ESO was dead and dying for years and the one thing has held true throughout, each has been wrong.
'

Tandor · December 2022

As and when streamers actually create content then I'll take an interest in them as content creators, meanwhile I've no interest in their streaming.

sarahthes · December 2022

All I know is the ESO category on Twitch used to be around the 3-4K viewers mark and now it's usually under 1K.

That's a huge difference.

React · December 2022

I mean, it's both.

Many of those content creators care about the growth and engagement of their channels. Since endgame PVP and PVE are undeniably in a rough place, their primary audience often shares the same sentiments that they do. Therefore, the kind of content that you call "doomsaying" really is what will drive the most engagement right now.

On the other side of things, they do actually believe these things about the game. I share most of these opinions about the game, and they aren't based on just the feeling that we've been mistreated or that we deserve more. They're based on historical facts.

Even if you don't like the content, I'd reccomend checking out the video @FrankonPC (isthereno1else) posted today. It goes back and looks at the 2017, 2018, 2020, and 2021 letters from @ZOS_MattFiror . In these letters, Matt often uses the exact same verbiage as yesterday's letter when making promises that they still haven't made good on today. For me, more than half a decade of failure to fix specific issues is more than enough for me to make negative comments about the developers and the game.

I know that these promises don't affect the more casual side of the game. It's understandable that most people that play ESO for housing, casual PVE, normal dungeons, fashion, social, etc don't feel like they've been wronged by the developers. That is fine, but if you don't understand the historical context behind why endgame veterans feel this, you shouldn't belittle their concerns or pretend that they're just being dramatic.

Castagere · December 2022

They have been saying the same thing for years and it gets them clicks on their videos. No one should pay any attention to them. Every update and the game is doomed and mass quitting is the same crap they always spew on their channels.

Dr_Con · December 2022

There's a lot of valid points in this topic, but some are straight up hating lol.

I know most viewers like to watch streams for 2 main reasons.
1. They like the broadcaster/group/quality of work coming out of the channel. The person streaming could be playing the worst game of the year and people would still tune in.
2. The streamer consistently overperforms/comments about the topic/game they are streaming and the viewer feels they can learn something by watching, or tuned in because they saw a video and wanted to comment in-person about it or see what they are up to.

there's other valid arguments, like they want to see if they should buy a game so they watch someone else play it first and ask questions, or they are stuck and need help.

Once communities associated with the channels/streamers get big enough, the broadcasters are able to do this sort of stuff and generate content that has nothing to do with games or the platforms they originated from anymore.

Their opinions should not be treated any greater, or any less than anyone else's opinion. Another thing- people make the mistake that if you are streaming and only have 10 viewers for an 8 hour stream, that those 10 viewers are watching the entire time. They aren't, you have all kinds of people tuning in for 2 seconds, 20 seconds, 2 minutes, 10 minutes, an hour, etc, any single stream might be seen by an upwards of 200-2000+ people, depending on duration of the stream, retention, interest in the stream, drops being enabled, tags, etc. even if someone has a consistent viewer count of 10. Fextralife has their own website with embeds that contains information people search for on google- that's how they boost their numbers. This more or less means that when you see that 1000 people are watching ESO in a single moment, it could really be as many as 10000 or 20000 different people over an hour. Just figured I'd chime in with this.

brylars · December 2022

Another thing to consider is the "free advertising" content creators provide for the game. I suppose ZOS would have to pay more in advertising to compensate for the loss of content creator interest.

DirtyDeeds765 · December 2022

me_ming wrote: »

DirtyDeeds765 wrote: »

I don't think much of it at all because they're playing the game because it's an MMO. Not because its an online Elder Scrolls game. The people who play it because its an online Elder Scrolls game will be the ones that keep it flourishing.

@DirtyDeeds765

I bet the people who play this game because it's an Elder Scrolls game are the first people who will leave ESO once TES VI launches, because they don't like playing an MMO-RPG, because well, you know that's what ESO is, an MMO-RPG. ESO is NOT a single player game. I've never played previous TES games, but I'm still here, and I've been playing this game since 2015.

Elder Scrolls fans are part of this community, but to tell me that you're the only part that's keeping this game alive is completely false. I've seen many Elder Scrolls fans say don't even consider ESO an Elder Scrolls game, that it's lore is not canon.

Well, I'm sure all Elder Scrolls fans will start playing TES6 and probably take a break from ESO when it comes out, but most true elder scrolls fans won't permanently leave and will ultimately continue playing ESO. The reason for this is because overall, ESO is the best Elder Scrolls experience there will ever be. No singleplayer elder scrolls game is ever going to let you travel across the entirety of Tamriel and beyond, bring content updates to the game FOUR times a year, be able to provide as much lore to the series as ESO does, let you play with your friends, wear virtually every armor in TES universe, and the list goes on and on.. a singleplayer TES game will always give you an amazing, singeplayer experience, but it will always lack in scope because of the way mmos work vs singleplayer games. After you get bored with TES6 after a couple years, what will you continue to main? ESO.

Also, I didn't mean to imply that only TES fans keep the game alive. MMO fans certainly do too. I'm just saying that there's alot of us that keep playing regardless of its shortfalls because its a tes game. Whereas alot of mmo players just want the best.

Also, any ES fans that say ESO isn't an elder scrolls game, have no idea what they're talking about. The game is 100 percent canon and made and maintained under the authority and grace of Bethesda. When they talk about Loremasters, that isn't just a cute, made up title. These guys are masters of the lore whose sole job is to ensure ESO stays consistent with the franchise that has been around for almost 30 years.

@DirtyDeeds765

Kiralyn2000 · December 2022

karthrag_inak wrote: »

"Content Creators" ? pbbbt.

^

I really don't get this whole modern 'streamer' culture. Let alone the importance people give to it.
"OMG, <name> isn't streaming <game> anymore! It must be a failing disaster!" /facepalm

sarahthes · December 2022

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

"Content Creators" ? pbbbt.

^

I really don't get this whole modern 'streamer' culture. Let alone the importance people give to it.
"OMG, <name> isn't streaming <game> anymore! It must be a failing disaster!" /facepalm

Streamers are a reflection of the community. The number of people streaming and watching streams for a game are reflective of the number of people actually playing. Online games without an active streaming/content creation presence tend to be smaller, less relevant games.

Basically, the bigger and more active the game, the bigger and more active the streaming and content creation community. The fact that ESO has a dramatically shrinking content creation community is yet another indication of a shrinking and less engaged player population.

Let me put it this way. When I took a break from ESO, I didn't stop streaming. I just streamed other games instead. And when I consumed media, it was for those other games. The stream community isn't shrinking because the streamers don't want to stream anymore. It's because they are playing other games... and the viewers aren't avoiding twitch or YouTube. They're consuming content about other games.

It's all symptomatic of a bigger problem. The community is much, much less engaged with ESO compared to how it used to be. And even if your corner of the game isn't impacted, it still means fewer new players, fewer people purchasing the game and crown store items, and ultimately the game becomes less profitable. If that goes on for too long then it becomes a really bad trajectory. Better to see what is going on now and try to reverse course before it gets worse.

FrankonPC · December 2022

React wrote: »

I mean, it's both.

Even if you don't like the content, I'd reccomend checking out the video @FrankonPC (isthereno1else) posted today. It goes back and looks at the 2017, 2018, 2020, and 2021 letters from @ZOS_MattFiror . In these letters, Matt often uses the exact same verbiage as yesterday's letter when making promises that they still haven't made good on today. For me, more than half a decade of failure to fix specific issues is more than enough for me to make negative comments about the developers and the game.

Thanks again React!

To piggyback off of this:

I don't make content that hits the youtube algorithm well, if I wanted more views, more subscribers, more ad revenue and potential sponsorships, I wouldn't dedicate an entire channel to just eso small scale pvp. ESO content in and of itself is a small fraction of a game that has struggled from years of performance, and eso pvp hasn't had new content for 3 years now.

You could look at some content creators and say that they're piggybacking off the "negative" meta and are doing it for clicks and I won't speak for them, but I get more views off of doing other content. You can go see this for yourself if you're curious.

I cover eso, and have for 6 years now not because it's profitable, but because I enjoy it. I enjoy doing it, I enjoy engaging with the community on it. This game, when it works, is fun and one of the best games I have ever played. For me and many end game pve and pvp players it's currently untenable and has been so since Firesong was released. You cannot do a lot of end game content without block working and as of this day, they have YET to fix it. Lag is also back in cyrodiil, when it has been gone for the previous 5-6 months.

You stack this 6 week long issue with update 35s end game issues as well as update 34s and it's glaringly apparent that the development team has lost touch with their community. I see it on youtube, on twitch, and on discords where I interact with end game players engaging in a variety of different content. I want this game to succeed, I want more content for everyone. We as a community don't get that if a big portion of endgame pve'ers and pvp'ers leave.

Then you have letters like this latest one, which are just like previous year's releases where it's nothing but empty promises and words that have yet to be fulfilled. 2017 they were going to "fix" pvp. 2019 and 2020 were "performance" years that have not improved performance. Re-architecture of the game was going to take "most of 2022" but won't start until 2023, I could go on here.

You don't have to click mine or any video you don't like. Just look at the results and think for yourself on it. For some of you, the game still works great and that's awesome. I hope it continues. For us endgame players it is not and I would appreciate it if you could let our voices get heard on a game we also love, just like you, but is currently untenable.

If you guys have any questions feel free to shoot me a message, respond on here etc...i don't get monetized interacting on the forums and you know it's not for "views".

Take care everyone,
Isth3reno1else

FrankonPC · December 2022

sarahthes wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

"Content Creators" ? pbbbt.

^

I really don't get this whole modern 'streamer' culture. Let alone the importance people give to it.
"OMG, <name> isn't streaming <game> anymore! It must be a failing disaster!" /facepalm

Streamers are a reflection of the community. The number of people streaming and watching streams for a game are reflective of the number of people actually playing. Online games without an active streaming/content creation presence tend to be smaller, less relevant games.

Basically, the bigger and more active the game, the bigger and more active the streaming and content creation community. The fact that ESO has a dramatically shrinking content creation community is yet another indication of a shrinking and less engaged player population.

Let me put it this way. When I took a break from ESO, I didn't stop streaming. I just streamed other games instead. And when I consumed media, it was for those other games. The stream community isn't shrinking because the streamers don't want to stream anymore. It's because they are playing other games... and the viewers aren't avoiding twitch or YouTube. They're consuming content about other games.

It's all symptomatic of a bigger problem. The community is much, much less engaged with ESO compared to how it used to be. And even if your corner of the game isn't impacted, it still means fewer new players, fewer people purchasing the game and crown store items, and ultimately the game becomes less profitable. If that goes on for too long then it becomes a really bad trajectory. Better to see what is going on now and try to reverse course before it gets worse.

All of this. You can look at a variety of different information, whether it's twitch charts, steam, discord activity, trial progression groups, youtube views...it all paints the exact same picture.

Once again, the game may be great for a lot of people, but less and less people are interested in it through a variety of different mediums.

FrankonPC · December 2022

alternatelder wrote: »

All of them do it for clicks. They always spew nonsense at this time of year. Kinda like the ridiculous "should you play ESO in '20,' 21, '22..."

I've been doing content for eso for 6 years now. You can go back through the years and see if I have yearly "nonsense", OR if this year is different. I've given credit when it's due(when the new hardware improved pvp) and I've also been critical. I am now being critical.

Applying this generalization is lazy and uninformed.

Tandor · December 2022

sarahthes wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

"Content Creators" ? pbbbt.

^

I really don't get this whole modern 'streamer' culture. Let alone the importance people give to it.
"OMG, <name> isn't streaming <game> anymore! It must be a failing disaster!" /facepalm

Streamers are a reflection of the community. The number of people streaming and watching streams for a game are reflective of the number of people actually playing. Online games without an active streaming/content creation presence tend to be smaller, less relevant games.

Basically, the bigger and more active the game, the bigger and more active the streaming and content creation community. The fact that ESO has a dramatically shrinking content creation community is yet another indication of a shrinking and less engaged player population.

Let me put it this way. When I took a break from ESO, I didn't stop streaming. I just streamed other games instead. And when I consumed media, it was for those other games. The stream community isn't shrinking because the streamers don't want to stream anymore. It's because they are playing other games... and the viewers aren't avoiding twitch or YouTube. They're consuming content about other games.

It's all symptomatic of a bigger problem. The community is much, much less engaged with ESO compared to how it used to be. And even if your corner of the game isn't impacted, it still means fewer new players, fewer people purchasing the game and crown store items, and ultimately the game becomes less profitable. If that goes on for too long then it becomes a really bad trajectory. Better to see what is going on now and try to reverse course before it gets worse.

Your first sentence, as bolded by me, refers only to a subset of the community. As such, every subsequent point you make relates only to that same subset. None of it relates to the whole community, or the overall state of the game.

Melivar · December 2022

I am logged into twitch most of the time and often have ESO streamers who I enjoy the banter with the communities or that are amusing. Hardly ever chat because it's on for background noise and to support in the little bit that I can while I am playing ESO it's not the greatest game to actually watch people play IMO.

The only time Twitch isn't a window in the background is the ESO LIVE streams and the occasional house tour as I look for ideas.

In my twitch recap I have 607 Hours watched Nine_Tales_Fox with 62 hours, Matygon with 41 Hours for ESO then 2 New world streamers with 32 and 30 hours for Drops only where I leave my computer on over night to get the hours needed never actually listened to the content.

In general if I am online I am actually playing games 90% of which is ESO I assume its similar for the rest of the community

The ESO channel hasn't been very busy in all the time I have played ESO only time its over 3K views is when someone who has an embedded stream tied with there websites or when a ESO or Bethesda stream is on.

sarahthes · December 2022

Tandor wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

"Content Creators" ? pbbbt.

^

I really don't get this whole modern 'streamer' culture. Let alone the importance people give to it.
"OMG, <name> isn't streaming <game> anymore! It must be a failing disaster!" /facepalm

Streamers are a reflection of the community. The number of people streaming and watching streams for a game are reflective of the number of people actually playing. Online games without an active streaming/content creation presence tend to be smaller, less relevant games.

Basically, the bigger and more active the game, the bigger and more active the streaming and content creation community. The fact that ESO has a dramatically shrinking content creation community is yet another indication of a shrinking and less engaged player population.

Let me put it this way. When I took a break from ESO, I didn't stop streaming. I just streamed other games instead. And when I consumed media, it was for those other games. The stream community isn't shrinking because the streamers don't want to stream anymore. It's because they are playing other games... and the viewers aren't avoiding twitch or YouTube. They're consuming content about other games.

It's all symptomatic of a bigger problem. The community is much, much less engaged with ESO compared to how it used to be. And even if your corner of the game isn't impacted, it still means fewer new players, fewer people purchasing the game and crown store items, and ultimately the game becomes less profitable. If that goes on for too long then it becomes a really bad trajectory. Better to see what is going on now and try to reverse course before it gets worse.

Your first sentence, as bolded by me, refers only to a subset of the community. As such, every subsequent point you make relates only to that same subset. None of it relates to the whole community, or the overall state of the game.

Games that excite people have active content creation, whether or not you or your subset of the community engage with it at all. Games that do not excite people do not have vibrant content creation scenes. Games that excite people draw in more people than they lose. Games that do not excite people cease being profitable as they lose more than they gain or retain.