they're definitely not doing it for content.

As near as I can tell... If they want to make money streaming games and grow that income, they are going to need to find something other than ESO to stream.

All content creators of every game doom say games anytime something happens they don't like. This game is still one of the most played and profitable games on the market, it's not going anywhere soon.

Pepegrillos wrote: »

The ship (viewership) is sinking and many of them can't make it on different twitch directories/covering other games. Negative content about their main game is still content and draws clicks.

But if the viewer numbers decline, doesnt that mean that players are less interested in a game and therefore the game is dying ? as far as i can tell less and less players are interested in the game. Lost dephts (u35) is a pretty accurate description of my friendlists and guilds and it hasnt gotten any better with u36.

StShoot wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

The ship (viewership) is sinking and many of them can't make it on different twitch directories/covering other games. Negative content about their main game is still content and draws clicks.

But if the viewer numbers decline, doesnt that mean that players are less interested in a game and therefore the game is dying ? as far as i can tell less and less players are interested in the game. Lost dephts (u35) is a pretty accurate description of my friendlists and guilds and it hasnt gotten any better with u36.

For me, watching Twitch live streams has nothing to do with my enjoyment of actually playing the game, but rather, my enjoyment of the streamer. Twitch live stream success seems to be achieved one of two ways: either through exciting game content or through the host being personable and enjoyable to watch; the truly successful streamers have both, with the personality streamers able to move to different games more successfully.

Some aspects of ESO are more on-demand and better served by Youtube content videos, not Twitch live streams... build guides, dungeon/trial mechanics, quest walkthroughs, how to complete special achievements, how to get furnishings/pets/mounts, how to reach that seemingly impossible to get to skyshard, etc.

I don't feel ESO is a very live stream friendly game, as most of it is not very exciting to watch. For me, in the exciting category is PVP, an activity that can be enjoyable to watch even if the streamer is not very engaging themselves. So, I can watch a depressed, negative streamer play PVP if they keep it moving and are good, but I will not watch them do writs for an hour making me feel like I'm on suicide watch.

Twitch live streaming seemed to bear this out, PVP/action streams tend to have higher viewership/followings then streamers doing less action oriented activities like questing, fishing, dailies, etc. And many PVP streamers have stopped playing/streaming given the current state of bad performance for PVP, so yes, Twitch viewership is down, but for me that doesn't lessen my interest in playing the actual game, nor do I think it means the game is "dying".
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Speaking as someone who is friends with some of those streamers, I can tell you that the frustration you're seeing in there is very much real. I know it's simpler to attribute it to them being click-hungry drama queens, but they play the game as much if not more than you or I, and they're real people feeling genuine frustration that the community they care so much about isn't doing well.

Compared to other games, ESO viewership numbers are abysmally low, because outside of PvP or really strong raid teams (and even those don't generate impressive numbers), it's really not that interesting watching someone pick flowers or do quests/writs (as much as I enjoy doing those things myself). The people who stream this game do it because they love this game, for better or for worse, and they want this game to succeed. If all they wanted was viewers, they'd have left a long time ago.

p00tx wrote: »

Speaking as someone who is friends with some of those streamers, I can tell you that the frustration you're seeing in there is very much real. I know it's simpler to attribute it to them being click-hungry drama queens, but they play the game as much if not more than you or I, and they're real people feeling genuine frustration that the community they care so much about isn't doing well.

Compared to other games, ESO viewership numbers are abysmally low, because outside of PvP or really strong raid teams (and even those don't generate impressive numbers), it's really not that interesting watching someone pick flowers or do quests/writs (as much as I enjoy doing those things myself). The people who stream this game do it because they love this game, for better or for worse, and they want this game to succeed. If all they wanted was viewers, they'd have left a long time ago.

So basically ESO is more a game to be enjoyed by playing other than something that is fun to watch others play. The player population is still healthy. What the players do while in the game has shifted some but still a good number playing.

kargen27 wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Speaking as someone who is friends with some of those streamers, I can tell you that the frustration you're seeing in there is very much real. I know it's simpler to attribute it to them being click-hungry drama queens, but they play the game as much if not more than you or I, and they're real people feeling genuine frustration that the community they care so much about isn't doing well.

Compared to other games, ESO viewership numbers are abysmally low, because outside of PvP or really strong raid teams (and even those don't generate impressive numbers), it's really not that interesting watching someone pick flowers or do quests/writs (as much as I enjoy doing those things myself). The people who stream this game do it because they love this game, for better or for worse, and they want this game to succeed. If all they wanted was viewers, they'd have left a long time ago.

So basically ESO is more a game to be enjoyed by playing other than something that is fun to watch others play. The player population is still healthy. What the players do while in the game has shifted some but still a good number playing.

That's not at all what I said. As I said, the parts of the game that people actually enjoy watching on stream are NOT doing well, and populations are down significantly in those parts. I'm genuinely glad you haven't seen any changes to your chosen part of the game, but many of the rest of us weren't so lucky. I would ask for a bit of empathy, understanding, and open-minded listening when members of the community voice their very real concerns.

p00tx wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Speaking as someone who is friends with some of those streamers, I can tell you that the frustration you're seeing in there is very much real. I know it's simpler to attribute it to them being click-hungry drama queens, but they play the game as much if not more than you or I, and they're real people feeling genuine frustration that the community they care so much about isn't doing well.

Compared to other games, ESO viewership numbers are abysmally low, because outside of PvP or really strong raid teams (and even those don't generate impressive numbers), it's really not that interesting watching someone pick flowers or do quests/writs (as much as I enjoy doing those things myself). The people who stream this game do it because they love this game, for better or for worse, and they want this game to succeed. If all they wanted was viewers, they'd have left a long time ago.

So basically ESO is more a game to be enjoyed by playing other than something that is fun to watch others play. The player population is still healthy. What the players do while in the game has shifted some but still a good number playing.

That's not at all what I said. As I said, the parts of the game that people actually enjoy watching on stream are NOT doing well, and populations are down significantly in those parts. I'm genuinely glad you haven't seen any changes to your chosen part of the game, but many of the rest of us weren't so lucky. I would ask for a bit of empathy, understanding, and open-minded listening when members of the community voice their very real concerns.

I don't really have a chosen part. I am very lucky in that regard that I like most everything in the game. I don't enjoy the card game but don't mind that it was added to the game. Many in my guilds and friends list do like the card game.

Picking up a group in Craglorn for trials has been slow as of late but that doesn't seem to have hurt trial participation in guilds. I think part of the problem with finding pugs for trials is an over abundance of events and most recently the blocking bug. That activity usually goes in cycles but right now it seems fairly low. Outside of low numbers for pug trials I still see a lot of players across many of the zones. Goes in cycles but that is to be expected.
And I am skeptical of anyone that generates revenue by playing or commenting on the game. Most do not have a good track record some repeatedly calling the game dead since 2014. The big names do what they do to promote themselves. Nothing wrong with that until people start believing what they say is true of what the general playing population thinks.

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

I watch many streamers, Deltia, Sawman, Fragmansaul, Nefas, HTM, and Brah We Got This.

I do agree with most of the sentiments they present, and I think they have a lot of ideas worth listening to. A lot of what they say echo my concerns.

No offense but that is what's known as an echo chamber.

My bad, had an unfinished thought there.

I’m not necessarily looking for their confirmation, but it reassuring that others are feeling the same way. There’s been times where I’ve disagreed with Nefas or BWGT, but by and large I think many streamers, especially stream team members have good insight into what’s happening.

they're not that far off-base - the concerns they're expressing are relevant. the streamers you mention that i recognized are more 'hardcore' endgame pve or pvp players (which tend to be most of the content creators i've seen), but i've even noticed more casual trading or housing oriented content creators expressing similar concerns.

plus, my own experience with players in guilds that have had stable population for years - the recent releases have experienced players seemingly quitting in droves. I see less interest in grouping, and much less interest in trials... i don't have server stats to know if the playerbase is shrinking, but from where i'm sitting it's shifting away from what it used to be...

DirtyDeeds765 wrote: »

I don't think much of it at all because they're playing the game because it's an MMO. Not because its an online Elder Scrolls game. The people who play it because its an online Elder Scrolls game will be the ones that keep it flourishing.

This 100%. I only ever came to ESO since it was in the Elder Scrolls series. The only MMO I really played before this was Runescape back on dial up, so I am not an MMO person. It being tied into the ES games really makes a huge impact on why I play it and how much I can put up with to still enjoy the lore/etc.