There're so many of guild which keep pushing mandatory for the members. Why?

AvalonRanger · December 2022

There're so many of guild which keep pushing mandatory for the members. Why?

Unfortunately, according to guild recruiting document on the zone chat, many guild keep pushing
"discord chat" and lots of "disgusting mandatory".

I think it's simply bad idea, if guild master want to increase member and gold income.

There're not much group contents in this game, mostly solo story RPG game. If you're CP over 1K
decent balanced player, you can beat most of WB and public dungeon by solo.

People just want their personal shop to sell the item which they get from the field or crafted.
People just want more believable tank or healer for normal running or gear farming business
than random grouping. But it's not always anyway. Mostly people are going solo, and do something
freely. That's the ESO.

spartaxoxo · December 2022

Good guild traders cost multiple millions of coins every single week, so guilds share the cost rather than putting it all on one person.

Discord is often mandatory for rostered activities only, and it's just so the guild master can have everyone sign up on a sheet that automatically updates rather than having to track everyone down with a spreadsheet.

Ultimately, both of these things allow the guild officers to enjoy the game too.

Sir_Gentleman777 · December 2022

Disgusting? It is disgusting when players want to do endgame content and can't or don't want to at least join voice chat. Nobody forces you to get a discord account or to sign your life away when doing so. Just setup any mail address that has no connection to you or to anything you do on the Internet and with that sign up to discord. You decide what information you give away and having voice is almost essential for a lot of content and certainly a must have for some content. If you are not willing to join out of whatever reason, the problem is on your end, not the guilds. You don't even have to talk yourself in voice, but you must be able to listen.

If you want to play without voice, you can try joining Craglorn pugs, but don't expect that you will finish vet trials, let alone Hardmodes.And no, if you only have a few seconds to do a mechanic you won't be able to do it via chat. It takes too long to switch to chat, it takes too long to type the message and it takes too long for everybody to read the message. Yes you can use chat bubbles, but many players get tunnel vision when they stand at a boss and parse. If they don't even see AOEs they stand in, then they won't see chat bubbles either. Or shall we weave the opening of the chat as well in now ala LA-> Skill->Enter for Chat-> LA.....? VC is not only mandatory, it is essential for many trials.

Aislinna · December 2022

So, is your complaint that guilds advertise things you don't like?

If you want to play solo, play solo. Easy.

robpr · December 2022

Because it's convenient, you can add much more information in single, organized place, automate things with bots and simply hang out without jumping into game. Nobody reads guild message of the day even if game specifically have notification that it got changed. Discord can push messages on your phone that is handy especially if you are into raids to see on first glance that someone's missing before it happens.

If thats not your fancy, just look for guild that doesnt have it "mandatory", there are a lot of guilds around there. Social guilds are dying easily in current state of the game, so trying pushing social aspect makes people less likely to just leave.

Arthtur · December 2022

So because ppl want to play diffrent than u they are wrong and have "disgusting rules"?
So u want to get a real tank/healer just because? While calling their rules "disgusting"?
U want guild shop without supporting the guild?

U can play how u want but u cant decide how others want to play. If u dont want to respect rules in other guilds then create your own guild. See how hard it is to get a guild trader when ppl dont support the guild.

AvalonRanger · December 2022

robpr wrote: »

If thats not your fancy, just look for guild that doesnt have it "mandatory", there are a lot of guilds around there...

Really? Do you know any of casual and minimum mandatory guild?

I'm in very nice guild for me now. I'm feeling extremely comfortable against my current guild.
(no mandatory, no discord forcing, must log in once per 2 weeks, just keep doing somethin activity freely.)
But, I can't find same style guild like the current one.

bmnoble · December 2022

So long as discord is only required to do organized guild group activities, whether its arena's/trials/dungeons/PVP with voice chat got no issue with it.

But if discord is required to simply be in the guild, that is when I have an issue with it and don't bother applying to such guilds.

As for guild weekly dues the trader needs to be paid for somehow, often you will have a set minimum contribution nothing wrong with that and can often be accomplished in multiple ways eg: sales tax, a gold donation/raffle tickets, auctions, mat gathering/fishing etc..

fred4 · December 2022

You don't say what's mandatory? Dues? I think that varies by server. I'm normally on PC EU. When I played on PC NA maybe 2 years ago, dues seemed much more prevalent there. It was hard to find a guild with a crafting hall - which is typically a trading guild who can afford such a thing - that didn't charge any dues, whereas on PC EU I am in a guild that charges no dues, yet maintains a trader in one of the minor 5-trader towns most weeks, not in an Outlaw reefuge. If you want quick trade turnover, e.g. a trader in, say, Belkarth or Mounhold, you have sales quotas to meet in those guilds, or dues. Last I looked (and this was also a year or three ago) 350K sales per week was required by a top guild on PC EU. People leave the game or take breaks without telling anyone. The top trading guilds can't really afford that. They'll no doubt throw you out, unless you at least give them notice. What you get for that is fast turnover of goods, e.g. stuff won't languish at the trader with all 30 slots filled, unless it's an overpriced or low volume item.

You can play normal dungeons and trials without a guild using either the group finder or Craglorn zone chat. Many veteran dungeons / non hard modes too, and the vet Craglorn trials. Random groups of decently competent players will usually succeed in that content. Beyond that, the average random group won't. There is a reason why people in Craglorn only call for vDSA arena groups. The final boss can be borderline, but groups typically succeed. Watch how often people call out for vBRP, though. I've been in a few random groups for that. The great majority failed miserably. This is why guilds may require Discord. This is the stuff, the harder stuff like veteran DLC trials, vBRP, some vet dungeon hard modes, that you truly need guildies for and that you quite possibly need instruction for. The whole ethos of vet (DLC) trials is also that you coordinate gear to stack a maximum of non-overlapping bonuses. This is why people may tell you what to wear. Perhaps you don't need that to scrape through, but I've been in a half random vDSR group on Discord with a good and patient leader, yet we got stuck and failed at the first boss. If you want to get into vet trials, it's serious business. You have to work together with others and you need better communication than that little in-game chatbox.

I've felt that some RAID leaders overdo it and spout unnecessary nonsense that discourages and hinders groups in the leseer Craglorn vet trials as much as it helps. I should know, because I've also done those with random groups without Discord which was frequently successful without any fuss. I think when it comes to vDSR and some of the other DLC vet trials though, they're much less forgiving. You really do need Discord for those, unless you're in a coordinated group that already knows each other.

All that said, I'm sure there must be a social guild that suits you. You just haven't found it yet. The only thing is, such guilds - especially when they don't have / require Discord - tend to be kind of dead. There might be a core of 10 people out of 500 that talk. The rest only use the crafting hall and maybe sell something occasionally.

Kisakee · December 2022

AvalonRanger wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

If thats not your fancy, just look for guild that doesnt have it "mandatory", there are a lot of guilds around there...

Really? Do you know any of casual and minimum mandatory guild?

I'm in very nice guild for me now. I'm feeling extremely comfortable against my current guild.
(no mandatory, no discord forcing, must log in once per 2 weeks, just keep doing somethin activity freely.)
But, I can't find same style guild like the current one.

So what exactly do you want from a guild? I'm in one of the biggest trading guilds on PC EU with a permanent trader in Deshan and the only thing i have to achieve are 150k in sales per week. That's it. No Discord, no group activities, i'm not even writing in or reading the guild chat 99% of the time. But i guess even the single "mandatory" requirement of minimum sales is too much for you?

fred4 · December 2022

Kisakee wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

If thats not your fancy, just look for guild that doesnt have it "mandatory", there are a lot of guilds around there...

Really? Do you know any of casual and minimum mandatory guild?

I'm in very nice guild for me now. I'm feeling extremely comfortable against my current guild.
(no mandatory, no discord forcing, must log in once per 2 weeks, just keep doing somethin activity freely.)
But, I can't find same style guild like the current one.

So what exactly do you want from a guild? I'm in one of the biggest trading guilds on PC EU with a permanent trader in Deshan and the only thing i have to achieve are 150k in sales per week. That's it. No Discord, no group activities, i'm not even writing in or reading the guild chat 99% of the time. But i guess even the single "mandatory" requirement of minimum sales is too much for you?

Yeah, I agree, but I have to say playing on PC NA a few years ago was a culture shock. The majority of trading guilds seemed to requre dues, weekly participation in raffles or other such stuff. It seemed out of control, like most guilds were doing that and thereby jacking up trader prices, perpetuating the system. PC EU seemed much more relaxed in this regard.

DreamyLu · December 2022

Discord:
For activities in team, discord is a big help: to talk live is a lot faster and easier, especially if you need to explain/ask something. To stop fighting in middle of action, in order to type can cost your life and spoil it for the rest of the team. Also, it helps to direct people during a hard fight like telling them urgently to back up and such.

Paying a fee for merchant:
Trading guilds need a merchant, that has to be purchased every week. It's extremely expensive (weekly bidding system). So, unless the guild leader is very very - very - rich, it needs the help of several guildies to have enough gold to win the bidding.

Now don't forget that you're not forced to anything. It's a matter of preferences. You will feel better in a guild without discord, fine, but it's not the same for all. Personally, I help my guild pay for merchant and I couldn't play without discord. I need discord because I'm not fast enough with fingers to simultaneously fight and type in chat.

fred4 · December 2022

DreamyLu wrote: »

For activities in team, discord is a big help: to talk live is a lot faster and easier, especially if you need to explain something, rather than to have to type in chat while you're busy fighting (to stop fighting to type can cost your life).

I'll just use this as a jump off point and combine it with this quote from the OP:

AvalonRanger wrote: »

There're not much group contents in this game, mostly solo story RPG game. If you're CP over 1K decent balanced player, you can beat most of WB and public dungeon by solo.

This kind of tells you everything of where the OP is at. They're not doing hard content. They're also just not doing the group content much, it seems, cause saying "there's not much group content in this game" is just patently false. And no, I'm not counting WBs, public dungeons or dolmens / geysers as group content either. Those things are feeding frenzies with players being like piranhas, unless we're talking real beginners or role-players that never got invested in the combat. Dungeons, trials and some forms of PvP are the group content. Particularly the vet modes.

SilverBride · December 2022

I don't mind if Discord is mandatory to join a guild because this is a good way for a GM to keep players up to date about what's going on with the guild. I like being an involved member and Discord is a good way to find guild activities to participate in.

thorwyn · December 2022

People just want their personal shop to sell the item which they get from the field or crafted.

You seriously expect people to spend millions of gold every week to provide YOU with a spot where you can sell your stuff.... for free?

endgamesmug · December 2022

I get your resistance with dischord, i see the same ad in zonechat over and over again. Only difference is a different guild name in front of it, bit boring to me but thats what people want trials 24/7. If youve found one that fits thats something though ay, as for trading yeah they need the gold for rent so when i sell through an alt i make sure its clearing a few mil a week-works for me 😁

AvalonRanger · December 2022

Kisakee wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

If thats not your fancy, just look for guild that doesnt have it "mandatory", there are a lot of guilds around there...

Really? Do you know any of casual and minimum mandatory guild?

I'm in very nice guild for me now. I'm feeling extremely comfortable against my current guild.
(no mandatory, no discord forcing, must log in once per 2 weeks, just keep doing somethin activity freely.)
But, I can't find same style guild like the current one.

So what exactly do you want from a guild? I'm in one of the biggest trading guilds on PC EU with a permanent trader in Deshan and the only thing i have to achieve are 150k in sales per week. That's it. No Discord, no group activities, i'm not even writing in or reading the guild chat 99% of the time. But i guess even the single "mandatory" requirement of minimum sales is too much for you?

Yea, I meant that kind of degree guild. No trial mandatory, No veteran dungeon mandatory, No PVP mandatory,
No discord chat log in mandatory. Just keep selling something at the guild shop, then no problem all.
But, there're not much guild like that in PC-NA.

Lady_Galadhiel · December 2022

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

If thats not your fancy, just look for guild that doesnt have it "mandatory", there are a lot of guilds around there...

Really? Do you know any of casual and minimum mandatory guild?

I'm in very nice guild for me now. I'm feeling extremely comfortable against my current guild.
(no mandatory, no discord forcing, must log in once per 2 weeks, just keep doing somethin activity freely.)
But, I can't find same style guild like the current one.

So what exactly do you want from a guild? I'm in one of the biggest trading guilds on PC EU with a permanent trader in Deshan and the only thing i have to achieve are 150k in sales per week. That's it. No Discord, no group activities, i'm not even writing in or reading the guild chat 99% of the time. But i guess even the single "mandatory" requirement of minimum sales is too much for you?

Yea, I meant that kind of degree guild. No trial mandatory, No veteran dungeon mandatory, No PVP mandatory,
No discord chat log in mandatory. Just keep selling something at the guild shop, then no problem all.
But, there're not much guild like that in PC-NA.

PC-NA being my secondary server, I just joined one guild I saw in chat announced and am a member ever since.No requirements, no mandatory Discord,no mandatory runs or minimum sales.
We don't have a trader in a top spot but my stuff sells nonetheless.
Guess I was just lucky to find a guild like that if there aren't many like that on NA.

AvalonRanger · December 2022

Aislinna wrote: »

So, is your complaint that guilds advertise things you don't like?

NO. Not kind of meaning.
I said that "accepting diversity" is very important.

dmnqwk · December 2022

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

If thats not your fancy, just look for guild that doesnt have it "mandatory", there are a lot of guilds around there...

Really? Do you know any of casual and minimum mandatory guild?

I'm in very nice guild for me now. I'm feeling extremely comfortable against my current guild.
(no mandatory, no discord forcing, must log in once per 2 weeks, just keep doing somethin activity freely.)
But, I can't find same style guild like the current one.

So what exactly do you want from a guild? I'm in one of the biggest trading guilds on PC EU with a permanent trader in Deshan and the only thing i have to achieve are 150k in sales per week. That's it. No Discord, no group activities, i'm not even writing in or reading the guild chat 99% of the time. But i guess even the single "mandatory" requirement of minimum sales is too much for you?

Yea, I meant that kind of degree guild. No trial mandatory, No veteran dungeon mandatory, No PVP mandatory,
No discord chat log in mandatory. Just keep selling something at the guild shop, then no problem all.
But, there're not much guild like that in PC-NA.

This is simply you not understanding the game I'm afraid.

The game has a number of Traders found in many places - and each week guilds must 'bid' - that is place bids to win a location at a cost of a large amount of gold.
Then, if they win it, they have that location for precisely ONE week before having to bid again.
Now, every time something is sold in the game, 3.5% of the fee is taken and lost (vanishes as a gold sink) while 3.5% is paid to the guild who owned the trader.

If a guild has to pay 1 million gold each week to have a trader, then they require members to sell 28.58million worth of items in the week so they don't lose the gold.
Each guild is limited to 500 members. So if a guild pays 1 milion for a trader, each member would need to sell items worth 57.2k worth of stuff to afford that (or pay a fee of 2'000 gold to cover them not selling anything).

If you don't like the fact that guilds have to do this, stop playing the game and join any of the other MMOs who have big, giant Auction Houses that work differently and have new ways to be awful (such as one person being able to buy out the market of an item, then re-list it for triple).

Trading guilds do it because trading guilds would have no money if they didn't, they'd go broke. If you didn't know how it worked, that might explain why you're being so critical, but let's see how your response changes now you understand WHY it happens!

Aislinna · December 2022

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

So, is your complaint that guilds advertise things you don't like?

NO. Not kind of meaning.
I said that "accepting diversity" is very important.

Apologies, I think we may have a language communication issue, as I did not see you say "accepting diversity" in your original post and I didn't interpret that you were trying to find a guild that would require nothing of you, yet provide a guild trader for your use.

AvalonRanger · December 2022

dmnqwk wrote: »

This is simply you not understanding the game I'm afraid.

The game has a number of Traders found in many places - and each week guilds must 'bid' - that is place bids to win a location at a cost of a large amount of gold.
Then, if they win it, they have that location for precisely ONE week before having to bid again.
Now, every time something is sold in the game, 3.5% of the fee is taken and lost (vanishes as a gold sink) while 3.5% is paid to the guild who owned the trader.

If a guild has to pay 1 million gold each week to have a trader, then they require members to sell 28.58million worth of items in the week so they don't lose the gold.
Each guild is limited to 500 members. So if a guild pays 1 milion for a trader, each member would need to sell items worth 57.2k worth of stuff to afford that (or pay a fee of 2'000 gold to cover them not selling anything).

???
So What kind of relation ship with "strange guild mandatory"?

If guild master accept broad diversity of playing style, then guild member increase more easily.
That means guild shop can gather many type of item for selling more easily.
(PVP, PVE, crafted gear, crafted nice potion, motif, fancy housing model...etc etc.)

That's the biggest reason why most of guild shop which located in big city can sell plenty of item than small guild.

Vulkunne · December 2022

AvalonRanger wrote: »

There're so many of guild which keep pushing mandatory for the members. Why?

Unfortunately, according to guild recruiting document on the zone chat, many guild keep pushing
"discord chat" and lots of "disgusting mandatory".

I think it's simply bad idea, if guild master want to increase member and gold income.

There're not much group contents in this game, mostly solo story RPG game. If you're CP over 1K
decent balanced player, you can beat most of WB and public dungeon by solo.

People just want their personal shop to sell the item which they get from the field or crafted.
People just want more believable tank or healer for normal running or gear farming business
than random grouping. But it's not always anyway. Mostly people are going solo, and do something
freely. That's the ESO.

Take what they are asking for with a bit of salt. If they just want you to join Discord then that's ok. If they're asking you to sign something with their own specific terms then I wouldn't. You're already under the TOS and there's no need to sign any other agreement because what you're basically saying is you agree they can do whatever they want because you're agreeing you won't do the things they don't like.

See how that works? If TOS ain't good 'nough for them then I would just leave. But some things like Discord are really necessary for communication if nothing else.

robwolf666 · December 2022

@OP My personal favourites are the ones that demand you pay X amount of gold to guild bank each month or get booted - after they randomly send you a guild invite out of nowhere.

Dr_Con · December 2022

robwolf666 wrote: »

@OP My personal favourites are the ones that demand you pay X amount of gold to guild bank each month or get booted - after they randomly send you a guild invite out of nowhere.

One of my 4 trading guilds is like this and I hate it.

Guild dues if you cant reach weekly minimums is kind of garbage. I'll sometimes sell things for 5mil one week then nothing the next and be expected to pay 30k dues when the weekly minimum is 200k sales, wth?

I like requirements like don't be in lowest 5%, don't be inactive for a month.

If you join a vet trial guild and want to do something other than vet crag trials, expect to use voice chat.

If you join a pvp guild, expect to use voice chat.

If you join a social/event guild, expect to use external communications.

If you join a RP guild, expect discord/forums- it comes with the territory.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · December 2022

Dr_Con wrote: »

Guild dues if you cant reach weekly minimums is kind of garbage. I'll sometimes sell things for 5mil one week then nothing the next and be expected to pay 30k dues when the weekly minimum is 200k sales, wth?

Yes because trading guilds bids on traders every week and not just the weeks when you sell things.

As an officer in some trading guilds and has been one in others which has sadly been disbanded, it's a constant frustration seeing people complaints about fees or minimum sales*. We aren't doing those for fun or to put gold in our own pockets, we are doing it because we need to, often even putting a lot of our own earned gold into the guild. Otherwise we won't get the traders we want, which is not even a guarantee, and no trader means barely any sales and that we likely lose members which is not something you want as a trading guild.

*What adds to this, is that they are plenty of guilds even some which are trading guilds, that has no fees or minimum sales. They often have traders in more odd places or hunt traders on the swap day and are less likely to always have a one. but they are an option for people who are very against to pay some small fee you can get by just doing writs on a character 1-3 days.

Carcamongus · December 2022

As pointed out, many trading guilds need extra revenue to afford expensive traders. They can't make ends meet just from the house's cut. I'm against making Discord mandatory for membership, though it's pretty reasonable to require its use for group activities that demand coordination, like trials.

Molydeus · December 2022

Mandatory Discord membership = I'm never joining

I understand dues however, but I'm in 4 guilds with traders that have never demanded dues, and we do just fine.

Dr_Con · December 2022

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

Guild dues if you cant reach weekly minimums is kind of garbage. I'll sometimes sell things for 5mil one week then nothing the next and be expected to pay 30k dues when the weekly minimum is 200k sales, wth?

Yes because trading guilds bids on traders every week and not just the weeks when you sell things.

As an officer in some trading guilds and has been one in others which has sadly been disbanded, it's a constant frustration seeing people complaints about fees or minimum sales*. We aren't doing those for fun or to put gold in our own pockets, we are doing it because we need to, often even putting a lot of our own earned gold into the guild. Otherwise we won't get the traders we want, which is not even a guarantee, and no trader means barely any sales and that we likely lose members which is not something you want as a trading guild.

*What adds to this, is that they are plenty of guilds even some which are trading guilds, that has no fees or minimum sales. They often have traders in more odd places or hunt traders on the swap day and are less likely to always have a one. but they are an option for people who are very against to pay some small fee you can get by just doing writs on a character 1-3 days.

If someone more than quadruples the weekly required sale requirement the previous week, no guild should be sending threats to donate 30k or else they get kicked the next week when the stuff they listed hasn't sold.

Jhava · December 2022

Most guilds, especially trade guilds, make their requirements known in advance. When you join the guild you accept to follow those requirements.

Every guild offers something, and in return they require something. When you join you agree to meet this basic level of commitment. If its weekly, then you meet the reqs weekly, not every other week, not "Hey i had a good week, so ill catch you later when i have another good week".

Joining a guild is an agreement that both sides will honour the deal. Don't be surprised when one side holds the other to the deal.

On a side note. There is a guild for everyone, and many that will meet the ops requirements on pc-na.

spartaxoxo · December 2022

I'm glad I'm on console and don't have to deal with the weekly minimum thing caused by add-ons. I pay a flat fee weekly. Some weeks I sell barely anything, some I sell a ton. Doesn't matter as long as I gave my fees. Some weeks I did lose money because nothing sold, but then I make up for over the course of the month. I have never not turned a profit over the month when I actually tried. One of my guilds also let's us prepay, so I can pay for weeks in advance.