Penetration vs crit vs damage on solo builds

Lyria_Rose · December 2022

Hey lovely people,

I’m looking for some general advice about the optimal balance of stats for solo play. I’ve got six toons (one of each class - Stamden, magsorc, magplar, stamblade, stamdk and magcro) and my current project is to try and optimise them all for solo PVE play. At the moment I can breeze through most over-world content, and solo most base game 4-player dungeons on normal on all my toons. I’m starting to run into problems with version 2, dlc, and vet dungeons and dlc world bosses. So I’m trying to beef up some my builds. I know it’s hard to give specific advice without full build details, but a couple of questions - which classes would be better for higher level solo play? And are there any key principles I should be keeping in mind for solo play specifically - especially around the balance of penetration vs crit vs damage? (I’ve looked this up but found it confusing!).

Thanks!

haelgaan · December 2022

general rule of thumb, solo PVE, penetration over crit chance - eg Thief or Lover mundus, go Lover mundus. iirc overland is 9k resist, dungeons 18k. if i'm light armor, lover is usually plenty. med armor, i might carry a mace and use a sharpened trait in addition to lover - depends on the math. other than that, i'll seek to raise both weap damage and crit chance in parallel, as best i can (i don't have the impression that pushing one or the other is more impactful).
if you're grouping for those vet dungeons, then your group mates can start contributing to the pen, and you can hopefully flip to thief mundus for crit chance... and don't forget pots (or oakensoul) for the boost (eg spell/weapon power pot)

Kng_Ayumayuma · December 2022

Combat Metrics

I spread sheet different builds comparing dps from Combat metrics. To my penetration and crit numbers from the game. Along with the gear and gear effects.

Some questions I ask. Is all crit gear better than gear with penetration? Or the other way? How much difference does the Thief and all armor using divines make? What about the Lover mudus. Is it better. On and on.

I've only been looking at DPS. Combat Metrics gives a ton more info. There is probably more to a great build than just DPS.

Zodiarkslayer · December 2022

For Soloing dungeons passive healing and defense (especially damage shields) are much more important than damage. Then would come sustain as a priority. And only after that you should worry about DPS.

When you theory craft a build, start with looking at your class passives and how you can use them. Then choose the class abilities that you need for activating the passives and then fill up your bars with what you like.
Only then you take a look at gear and decide what complements your builds needs best. For example, if you have no damage shield yet, you can take a look at the Hexos' Ward set.

At this point you should also look at your sustain. Champion Points, the right food or drink in combination with bonuses from potions should normally be enough, but you have to make sure your sustain values reflect the amount of abilities you use from each ressource pool.

As rule of thump for Soloing, you should aim at:
Main Ressource: >30k
Health: 20k-25k
Main recovery: 1500 to 2000
Off recovery: 700 to 1500 (!)
Penetration: 12k to 18.2k
Crit Chance: >50%
Crit Damage: >80%
Weapon/Spell Damage: >4500

Lyria_Rose · December 2022

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

For Soloing dungeons passive healing and defense (especially damage shields) are much more important than damage. Then would come sustain as a priority. And only after that you should worry about DPS.

When you theory craft a build, start with looking at your class passives and how you can use them. Then choose the class abilities that you need for activating the passives and then fill up your bars with what you like.
Only then you take a look at gear and decide what complements your builds needs best. For example, if you have no damage shield yet, you can take a look at the Hexos' Ward set.

At this point you should also look at your sustain. Champion Points, the right food or drink in combination with bonuses from potions should normally be enough, but you have to make sure your sustain values reflect the amount of abilities you use from each ressource pool.

As rule of thump for Soloing, you should aim at:
Main Ressource: >30k
Health: 20k-25k
Main recovery: 1500 to 2000
Off recovery: 700 to 1500 (!)
Penetration: 12k to 18.2k
Crit Chance: >50%
Crit Damage: >80%
Weapon/Spell Damage: >4500

That’s super helpful, thank you! I started out looking at sustain, shields and self-heals (ring of pale order etc etc), so feel ok from that side - just trying to build up the damage now without giving up the survivability. Feels like I’m a long at off having those kind of stats (or at least of having them in all areas at the same time!!), but it’s really helpful to have something to work towards. Thanks!

Kng_Ayumayuma · December 2022

Great Info. @Zodiarkslayer I see and understand your criteria for the build (what to aim for). What criteria do you use to compare two (or more) builds that fall within "what to aim for?" How do you decide which is "better?" What does better even mean?

This is why I have only been using DPS. Higher better. I love your term. Theory craft.

SirLeeMinion · December 2022

At the risk of being overly brief and vague, as you tackle harder content solo you don't want a build. It's not unusual to find you need two. One is typically higher DPS and one typically has more defense and passive healing. In addition, you often have to swap out skills to get past unavoidable one shots or anti-solo mechanics.

So, for instance, in vet Crypt of Hearts 2, you want survivability and preferably a pet or two to get past Ruzozuzalpamaz in a reasonable amount of time. But, you'll likely want to swap out an armor set and some skills to get past Nerien'eth.

As for your original question, I tend to lean toward penetration over crit. Test your build on the 6 M dummy, but keep in mind that DPS isn't always the key factor. Frequently streamers will show videos of solo runs that rely on very high DPS to skip mechanics. If you are capable of that, great! If not, you really have to plan for the mechanics and for heavy CC. Ironically, it's the CC that has caused me to move away from the Ring of the Pale Order as it fails me when I need it most.

So far as class, if I'm running a dungeon solo to grind gear, I lean toward nightblade for ease in skipping mobs. If I'm running something hard, just to see if I can, I lean towards Petsorc.* For leaderboard scores and rewards on solo arenas, I run anything but those two classes.

* I suppose Warden with bear could work as well, but I've never been able to get the hang of running a Warden.

Saint-Ange · December 2022

You should read the answers from @fred4 on this topic

Saint-Ange · December 2022

snip

Zodiarkslayer · December 2022

Kng_Ayumayuma wrote: »

Great Info. @Zodiarkslayer I see and understand your criteria for the build (what to aim for). What criteria do you use to compare two (or more) builds that fall within "what to aim for?" How do you decide which is "better?" What does better even mean?

This is why I have only been using DPS. Higher better. I love your term. Theory craft.

Well, the higher your DPS, the faster you are dead in some cases. At least in those Boss fights, where you receive constant damage and really high damage spikes.
The truth is that in order to get high DPS (>50k) in SOLO, you have to give up survivability.

Comparing two builds is easy. You take both to Boss fights of escalating levels of difficulty:
base game WBs, base game dungeon bosses, veteran base game dungeon bosses , dlc WBs, dlc dungeon bosses, dlc vet dungeon bosses.
There is no other way, since there is no way to measure survivability in game. Certainly not with a single combat stat.

Something nobody mentioned here yet is Player Skill. Being reallly good at weaving, movement and positioning, anticipating heavy attacks, etc. has a higher in fluence on successfully SOLOing a Boss than gear or stats. But it is equally difficult to quantify.

mocap · December 2022

both meh. Focus on survivability: armor, resistances, HP (in that order).
Use Major Breach sources if possible, use Channeled Acceleration if possible, but first thing first - stay alive.

nb_rich · December 2022

For solo I would normally use the same sets id use for dungeon/trials. Overland is ridiculously easy especially with companions and ring of pale order. If your talking about solo dungeons then just throw razor caltrops on your bar and your good to go

cuddles_with_wroble · December 2022

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

For Soloing dungeons passive healing and defense (especially damage shields) are much more important than damage. Then would come sustain as a priority. And only after that you should worry about DPS.

When you theory craft a build, start with looking at your class passives and how you can use them. Then choose the class abilities that you need for activating the passives and then fill up your bars with what you like.
Only then you take a look at gear and decide what complements your builds needs best. For example, if you have no damage shield yet, you can take a look at the Hexos' Ward set.

At this point you should also look at your sustain. Champion Points, the right food or drink in combination with bonuses from potions should normally be enough, but you have to make sure your sustain values reflect the amount of abilities you use from each ressource pool.

As rule of thump for Soloing, you should aim at:
Main Ressource: >30k
Health: 20k-25k
Main recovery: 1500 to 2000
Off recovery: 700 to 1500 (!)
Penetration: 12k to 18.2k
Crit Chance: >50%
Crit Damage: >80
Weapon/Spell Damage: >4500

a little rework to the stats listed based off current meta:
Main Ressource: > whatever you can play at (most players have 18-25k)
Health: 30-35k
Main recovery: as low as you can get it while still being able to sustain
Off recovery: same thing, as low as you can go while being able to sustain
Penetration: breach + sharpened on the front bar will be enough for most class (dk doesnt need any)
Crit Chance: >30%
Crit Damage: > as high as you can go (preferably over 100%)
Weapon/Spell Damage: >6k + is best but can go lower on certain builds
crit resist: > full impen/ some impen + cp passive or wearing rallying cry

EDIT: I REALIZED THIS IS FOR PVE NOT PVP but ill leave this here for good info anyway