I enjoy ESO

Moonsorrow · December 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

For me, the game is not broken.

But this statement kind of means that you could be just playing a single player game, where the only thing matters is that your own enjoyment and that your own sandbox experience and toys still function.

Meanwhile on MMO games the truth is, once parts of the game starts to be changed and/or gets broken that other people enjoy, or it was literally the thing that kept them playing the same game as you, be it pvp or hardest pve trial trifectas.. if the people who are not so badly affected by it just repeat the "game is fine for me!" mantra, you'll notice two things to happen slowly but surely: Firstly, people who are affect gets very vocal about things and eventually leave the game, affecting the in game economy, both actual and both that the game makes less money for the devs, meaning smaller budget, meaning content gets stale/hurried/bad quality.

And two, eventually they do the same to the content part you yourself enjoyed and was your thing. No one will come defend your views then, since the vocal and analytical people have already left. Then you see only yourself left, alone with a few other people saying that "this is wrong and why you do this to us, your loyal players?" meanwhile it was done to others for years and you did not even acknowledge it and the issues others had to deal with. People only seem to really wake up when it directly concerns themselves these days. Some not even then. Eventually they notice the main forum of AAA game main pages even seem dead since no one even bothers posting with their opinions anymore since the trust has been so lost already between the devs and the players.

tldr: for years pve people pretty much wanted pvp gone, now that majority of pvp people are gone, who will come defend your opinions about the changes anymore? If only people could understand and stay united on things and turning points that just made the game worse. While maybe not to some housing and world boss enthusiast. But enjoy buying 150eur houses soon when even less players and they wanna get that money from the group of players that are left.

tldr2: If you want mmo to stay alive and relevant, it needs to have fun combat. ESO had fun combat. Remember kids, never start fixing/changing something that was not broken. You all see the results these days on how to combat is and feels compared to how it was.

I'd take all the QoL fixes (bugs not included) and wish i could turn back time and play 2017 version of ESO. And new servers for EU too and fixed architecture as they promised year ago. Like remember when the game was still legit good? One can dream.

Vulkunne · December 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

I enjoy playing ESO. It has a nice mix of activities that I can hop around to as the mood hits me. I love questing and World Bosses and Vents and soloing dungeons and ToT and Housing and selling on our guild's trader and chatting and hanging out with friends I've made along the way.

There are some things I was not happy with this year such as Account Wide Achievements and a DLC being the reward again, or the pet as compensation. And I wasn't happy that both new Companions were female. And there have been a lot of bugs but these will be fixed. But I don't attribute any of this to ZoS doing anything but trying to make the game better for us all.

Players asked for a game and they asked for account wide achievements and they complained about power creep and that the game was too easy. Things may not have been implemented the way players envisioned but they were done in response to player feedback.

Giving feedback is important but not just negative feedback. Positive feedback is just as important to know how changes have been received by the playerbase. And I enjoy ESO.

If people did not care about the game they would not point out some of its flaws. That is why I decided to open a forum account so I can bring matters that I found needing attention from my point of view. Which no one ever said we all have the same point of view.

Also, I get your message in this post, however when talking over other players issues presented here, it would be more respectful to them to produce an itemized list, which includes what the feedback actual was, so we can judge the person's focus more accurately vs having someone decide for us. (And that's not me being passive aggressive as many posts on here are the same way and it gets frustrating trying to sort out bias vs what was really said or done)

For example, instead of saying they asked for awa, they complained about power creep and that the game was too easy... you know, these sound like broad conversation pieces instead of real concerns from different players right? And like with the game being too easy for example, there are different perspectives, some have said specifically overland is too easy, others talk about Trials and so forth. Major differences between these perspectives but you're sort of summing it all together, which leads to personal bias and doesn't really share what their focus points really were behind these conversation pieces.

So in reading this, how can I agree with you that this selection of feedback is negative when I don't really know what they are (aside from my own feedback)? I have no idea what was actual player feedback that produced these undesirable results and you have also not tied their actual feedback to these negative results in any discernable way. I cannot fathom your reasoning without some form of proof behind these relationships other than you saying they're negative feedback.

Your view I certainly respect but I can never share it without more information.

SilverBride · December 2022

Moonsorrow wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

For me, the game is not broken.

But this statement kind of means that you could be just playing a single player game, where the only thing matters is that your own enjoyment and that your own sandbox experience and toys still function.

The fact that I am still enjoying the game and my experience hasn't changed for the worse does not mean I don't have empathy for others. But I am not going to agree that the game is broken when for many of us it's not.

katanagirl1 · December 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

For me, the game is not broken.

But this statement kind of means that you could be just playing a single player game, where the only thing matters is that your own enjoyment and that your own sandbox experience and toys still function.

The fact that I am still enjoying the game and my experience hasn't changed for the worse does not mean I don't have empathy for others. But I am not going to agree that the game is broken when for many of us it's not.

No one is asking you to do so. Your experience is your own.

[snip]

You cannot speak for others who do participate in areas of the game that you do not. Like me.

[edited for minor baiting]

SilverBride · December 2022

katanagirl1 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

For me, the game is not broken.

But this statement kind of means that you could be just playing a single player game, where the only thing matters is that your own enjoyment and that your own sandbox experience and toys still function.

The fact that I am still enjoying the game and my experience hasn't changed for the worse does not mean I don't have empathy for others. But I am not going to agree that the game is broken when for many of us it's not.

No one is asking you to do so. Your experience is your own.

[snip]

You cannot speak for others who do participate in areas of the game that you do not. Like me.

I made this thread to give my feedback which happens to be mostly positive. I am not trying to convince anyone to my way of thinking nor am I discounting anyone's negative feedback. I acknowledged that a lot of end game players are upset about U35, and never said they shouldn't be. But ESO isn't broken and it isn't dying and there are a lot of players who still enjoy this game very much.

[edited to remove quote]

Tornaad · December 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

I enjoy playing ESO. It has a nice mix of activities that I can hop around to as the mood hits me. I love questing and World Bosses and Vents and soloing dungeons and ToT and Housing and selling on our guild's trader and chatting and hanging out with friends I've made along the way.

There are some things I was not happy with this year such as Account Wide Achievements and a DLC being the reward again, or the pet as compensation. And I wasn't happy that both new Companions were female. And there have been a lot of bugs but these will be fixed. But I don't attribute any of this to ZoS doing anything but trying to make the game better for us all.

Players asked for a game and they asked for account wide achievements and they complained about power creep and that the game was too easy. Things may not have been implemented the way players envisioned but they were done in response to player feedback.

Giving feedback is important but not just negative feedback. Positive feedback is just as important to know how changes have been received by the playerbase. And I enjoy ESO.

I have worked in customer service for a decade, and I still remember both times someone actually called up to give positive feedback. The first time, I was so taken back, it took me about 30 seconds just to comprehend what they were saying and even then I had to ask a few times just to make sure I understood what they were saying.
So, yes, we need to give positive feedback. Even if there are tons of bugs, if there is something you like, give them feedback about that, so we can get more of what we like.

Turtle_Bot · December 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

For me, the game is not broken.

But this statement kind of means that you could be just playing a single player game, where the only thing matters is that your own enjoyment and that your own sandbox experience and toys still function.

The fact that I am still enjoying the game and my experience hasn't changed for the worse does not mean I don't have empathy for others. But I am not going to agree that the game is broken when for many of us it's not.

No one is asking you to do so. Your experience is your own.

[snip]

You cannot speak for others who do participate in areas of the game that you do not. Like me.

I made this thread to give my feedback which happens to be mostly positive. I am not trying to convince anyone to my way of thinking nor am I discounting anyone's negative feedback. I acknowledged that a lot of end game players are upset about U35, and never said they shouldn't be. But ESO isn't broken and it isn't dying and there are a lot of players who still enjoy this game very much.

You may not be trying to, but your comments and replies certainly have been.

It's great that your way of playing isn't affected by these game breaking issues currently affecting many others, but that does not mean that the game as a whole is completely fine, only that your specific section of the game is fine.

As was posted earlier, PVE players did to the PVP community a few years ago, exactly what you are doing now in this thread. Whenever the PVP community complained about performance in cyrodiil and the multitude of game breaking bugs, performance issues and drastic balance changes that were affecting the way they play the game in a horrible way, there was an endless stream of comments from pve players that consisted entirely of, "the game is fine", "stop complaining", "stop being negative", "the game works for me", "just stop playing then" and countless more.

While you haven't specifically stated most of those phrases, the dismissive and divisive sentiments behind the above phrases that were shown to the pvp community only a few years ago when they faced these same issues and tried to provide attention to and feedback about these issues in the hopes of getting them fixed, are definitely apparent (even if unintended) in your thread topic and your replies in here and on other threads.

The game is most certainly broken for a very large section of the community (those who enjoy the combat experience). It might not seem to be broken for you, but that doesn't mean that the game is not broken at all. It is very much broken, just not for your specific demographic.

Imagine if you would, back when you were upset about AWA. How would you feel if people came into the forums and claimed that it was a non-issue because it doesn't affect them, or that you should be complimenting how easy it is to get into and complete harder content now that oakensoul grants so much power to everyone and that we need to include positive feedback for these things that don't affect you alongside your negative feedback about the changes to AWA that do affect you.

Because that is what you are doing here and that is why people have reacted to your thread the way that they have. These people have seen (or maybe even participated in) all of this before when it was done to the PVP community and that resulted in not only a drastic decline of the community as a whole, but also a lot of issues being constantly ignored or shut down and the attitude of parts of the team seemed to turn very hostile towards even the most tame and constructive points, questions and feedback that was given by any PVPer to attempt to bring attention to issues/bugs/balance to try and help improve the game for not just themselves, but for others too.

[edited to remove quote]

Amottica · December 2022

It would seem clear most of us enjoy ESO, or we would not be here. Some may have quit the game and are still in the forums, but most of us still play it, so we enjoy something about it to keep logging in.

OnnuK · December 2022

We all enjoy ESO, that is why you are reading this and still here. For me it is #1 MMORPG (testing WoW since 1 month). We criticize it based on facts and also because we care. Right now I am focusing on Zone Quests, housing and other activities which is not affected by bug-inside-bug.

One thing I do not understand is why ESO is at standby mode. They know that PvP can much more be improved, bugs can be fixed faster but no they are at "wait and see" mode.
What is 2023 Road Map ? My guess is new PvE DLC, cosmetics and a brand new awesome Card Deck...

Yea we all love ESO, but I cannot give positive feedback until they listen us. (BTW even almost no or few viewers of ESO I try to stream via twitch just to show it to the world how awesome it is. So I try support as much as possible)

My 2c...

Hotdog_23 · December 2022

Enjoy ESO as well. Play every day and have over 10,000 hours in game and been an ESO plus subscriber since it came to console. Just don’t think ZOS wants my feedback as a console player positive or negative.

Don’t have a PTS to test out things for them, so for any new updates I get ignored because any feedback I can give is not wanted since I cannot provide video/pictures or add-ons feedback with extra data collected. They are only so many developers hours and eyeballs. The system is rigged against console players in this regard.

Look how long block has been broken among other things on console but completely ignored by ZOS until it affects PC master race. I remember when we were crashing a lot of PS network, and they ask for feedback and to submit a ticket. We in the thread remaindered them that we did in fact submit error reports automatically through the PS system crash reports they just need to ask Sony for them which apparently, they were not.

Just think about how Rich said all you had to do was search for help in the help section about respect shrines in one of his streams. When in fact you could not then and still cannot use any search function in the help section on consoles. Is this a ZOS software issue or Sony issue? Have no idea, but it just shows the disconnect they have with the console version vs. PC.

Also, over the years they have proven time and time again they really do not do very much or any testing on consoles before releasing a patch.

Sure, I come to the forums to whine and complain, but also to learn about updates/patches. God forbid, they actually push this information out to the console. I mean after all they could have a section in the help menu for patch notes but no we have to come to the Website or forums to learn about it. How hard could it be to have a patch notes section with the latest changes and history of previous notes.

Said it before, and I will say it again, they have abandoned use on the forums. Communication has nosedived since update 35. Partially believe a lot of this has to do with the fact not everyone is showering them with praises anymore. Instead we are asking hard question and wanting more open communication and a plan for where the game is going and not just some stuff on a thrown wall and see what sticks approach to combat.

Rather than interacting with its customers it’s become take it or leave it, this is our game. Wall of silence. It’s almost like we hurt their feeling, and they are not talking to use anymore.

Stay safe

Kallykat · December 2022

I don't think the OP is trying to downplay the problems many people are facing. She's simply providing a different viewpoint. If anything, lately "cancel culture" seems to be aimed at anyone with anything positive to say.

Just because my game has not suffered from most of the recent changes doesn't mean I'm insensitive to others' frustrations. I get that many people are posting constructive feedback because they love the game and want it to improve. I felt the same way when AWA came about, and I posted my frustrations too.

What I don't like is:
1. the rude and unconstructive posts
2. the people who feel the need to make sarcastic comments or list all their frustrations on every single thread regardless of the topic or intent of the thread.

There are lots of threads created for people to give feedback about the state of the game and recent changes. There are a lot of people who have posted solid and sincere constructive critiques on those threads. That's great!

There are also people who seem to be relentlessly trying to deny anyone who is not unhappy a chance to escape the critiques for a bit. It makes me less inclined to feel supportive and empathetic, even though I know I should be.

(By the way, I'm not speaking about this thread in particular. I've noticed this issues on many threads over the last few months.)

AinSoph · December 2022

Kallykat wrote: »

I don't think the OP is trying to downplay the problems many people are facing. She's simply providing a different viewpoint. If anything, lately "cancel culture" seems to be aimed at anyone with anything positive to say.

Just because my game has not suffered from most of the recent changes doesn't mean I'm insensitive to others' frustrations. I get that many people are posting constructive feedback because they love the game and want it to improve. I felt the same way when AWA came about, and I posted my frustrations too.

What I don't like is:
1. the rude and unconstructive posts
2. the people who feel the need to make sarcastic comments or list all their frustrations on every single thread regardless of the topic or intent of the thread.

There are lots of threads created for people to give feedback about the state of the game and recent changes. There are a lot of people who have posted solid and sincere constructive critiques on those threads. That's great!

There are also people who seem to be relentlessly trying to deny anyone who is not unhappy a chance to escape the critiques for a bit. It makes me less inclined to feel supportive and empathetic, even though I know I should be.

(By the way, I'm not speaking about this thread in particular. I've noticed this issues on many threads over the last few months.)

If anything, it proves how distraught everyone is about the state of the game, like look how many reactions people who point out the flaws of the game compared to people who praise it, rightfully so since the management/updates has noticeably degraded over the years. I assume people who get on the forums has at least a degree of care about the game moreso than the average player so it's really telling, even if slightly, that people agree more with pointing out the flaws than anything positive.

Kallykat · December 2022

No one is denying how distraught people are. This isn't a competition. That wasn't the point.

Snamyap · December 2022

Bugs apart, I'm a bit on the fench when it comes to enjoying the content. Not that I dislike the zones and dungeons that were added this year, especially happy that all four dungeons are soloable on normal. The issue is that the lionshare of the content is based on repetition. Motifs through dailies, filling the stickerbook by running the same dungeons 40+ times, Tales of Tribute card upgrades, still not finished with those, etc. In particular the dailies in the Q4 dlc, as there are only two world bosses and two delves, and the group event is the same one we've been doing on High Isle. Not much variation, it's not very captivating.

It might be worth it if there was a juicy carrot at the end of it all, but every worthwhile cosmetic is stuffed in the crown shop.

ADarklore · December 2022

I tried coming back to ESO after having stopped playing just before U35 dropped. I have played the game for years, since about a year after PC launch, and left a couple times but always returned. I have been playing a few other games recently and yet had this nostalgia desire to come back... and so yesterday I hopped back in and tried playing again... but just cannot get back into it. The whole time I was playing yesterday I kept thinking, "This is not as fun as I remember". After a few hours, I went back to playing Midnight Suns and had a great time there. I don't know why I lost the spark for ESO... I think a lot of it has to do with ZOS and their negative attitude towards players, the lack of announced vision, constantly going back on their word, heavy handed forum moderation, destroying Templar and many other things with U35, and the feeling like ESO is going into 'maintenance mode' with their lack of development and improvements. Perhaps I will return should they manage to turn things around, but I'm really not sure ZOS has the desire to do that at this point, at least I cannot get that impression from what they offered us- both in content and communication.

ForumBully · December 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

And there have been a lot of bugs but these will be fixed.

Will they? I've been stuck in combat for 5 years

Major_Soulless · December 2022

I am genuinely happy for anyone who enjoys ESO or any other game they invest their time in. I hope it stays this way for you OP

ghost_bg_ESO · December 2022

I also enjoy ESO, recently started on XBOX - full game, eso+ (Series S seems on par with nvidia 1050) and only log in for daily rewards on PC.

Having a blast in particularly solo game - not much people on EU servers, it seems, no x,y,z in Alik'r and even voice chat seems broken so don't have to turn it off every time, less bugs compared to PC (or Stadia), or maybe they have finally started to clear old zones from bugs...

As for this year my general feeling is that we've reached the bottom and now digging bellow and my general hope is that Microsoft finally steps in harder and changes couple of team leads/devs...

And I'm incredibly curios for this "secret vision of the game future" and do hope it will be revealed finally to change a bit the grim feeling that unknow and history leaves after every "we will do better in future".

(if parts of my comment are considered as bashing, trolling or other would kindly pleas mod to delete it all and not only parts that are not eye candy)

Ph1p · December 2022

I enjoy ESO as well and I think most people here do or did, otherwise they wouldn't bother setting up an account or provide feedback - positive or negative. Like OP, I don't think the game as a whole is broken or dead or dying. Like many others, I do think that some parts of it are in such a bad shape, that the playing style of a significant part of the community is actually broken. Imagine a school or work canteen whose only vegetarian dish is french fries - it's not a bad place per se and for many people the food is great, but for vegetarians and vegans the menu is definitely "broken".

However, I disagree that giving positive feedback on this forum is as important as (constructive) negative feedback. It's nice and motivating, but ZOS can see positive feedback in their own data: Number of customers, sales, ESO+ churn, daily logins, players in new zones, ToT games played, trials cleared, achievements accomplished, social media buzz, and so on.

However, if any of those metrics are low or dropping, negative feedback is essential to pinpoint the exact reasons and help improve the next update or patch. Players come to the forums for customer engagement and support, which they mostly need if things aren't going well.

spartaxoxo · December 2022

Kallykat wrote: »

I don't think the OP is trying to downplay the problems many people are facing. She's simply providing a different viewpoint. If anything, lately "cancel culture" seems to be aimed at anyone with anything positive to say.

Yeah, people weren't able to really express enjoyment for AWA, for example. Threads designed for positivity are quickly flooded with the same opinions expressed many times in other threads that the positive thread is trying to move away from. It's happening on their other social media too. The Tales of Tribute stream was a bit of a bummer, because it was next to impossible to ask questions about Tales due to chat being flooded with Q&A questions and block bug. They wanted pictures for houses decorated for New Life on Twitter, but those were flooded with complaints too.

It's understandable that people are upset and taking to their various communication outlets to express it. But, it's also a shame that anything positive is drowned out.

spartaxoxo · December 2022

[snip]

Expressing a different opinion isn't trolling. Stuff like the block bug doesn't effect every person's play experience equally. Someone who encounters a lot of errors through their playtime may think the game is broken. Someone who only seldomly encounters errors will think the game might have some bugs that need fixing, but it is overall not a broken game.

Both opinions are legitimate to their own playstyle.

[edited to remove quote]

SilverBride · December 2022

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Expressing a different opinion isn't trolling.

Thank you.

tohopka_eso · December 2022

I'm totally with you @SilverBride on this. My playstyle almost resembles yours. I just got tired of being positive for a while cause of the negativity going on.

Dojohoda · December 2022

I like ESO too. Everyone here knows about the problems. I can't say much about those except, "best wishes for the team."

Psiion · December 2022

Greetings all,

As we have had to remove a few posts that were non-constructive and Baiting in nature, we'd like to remind everyone to keep the Community Rules in mind. Purposely posting off-topic comments to try and derail a thread is against the Community Rules and the spirit of the ESO Community. Per the Rules:

"It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead."

Please keep discussion on topic moving forward.

Cazador · December 2022

I'm with the OP on this one. While I haven't been totally happy with everything this year (bugs and feeling a bit overwhelmed by how many events we have in particular) I truly love the sheer variety of stuff to do.

I don't know what it was, but something about the content this year really worked for me and I was really able to get into the game again for the first time since early 2020 when raiding really burned me out.

Jhava · December 2022

I have ebb and flow over the years. Sure some times I'm frustrated to the point of yelling at my screen, but for the most part I'm happy with the game. This years content, some isn't for me, but meh, what i like isn't for some other players.

Bugs have weighed on me and my guild mates, but over all, I'm happy with the game.

I agree with the op in a way. That there are many positives to go with some of the negatives. It's nice to hear both views.

katanagirl1 · December 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

For me, the game is not broken.

But this statement kind of means that you could be just playing a single player game, where the only thing matters is that your own enjoyment and that your own sandbox experience and toys still function.

The fact that I am still enjoying the game and my experience hasn't changed for the worse does not mean I don't have empathy for others. But I am not going to agree that the game is broken when for many of us it's not.

No one is asking you to do so. Your experience is your own.

[snip]

You cannot speak for others who do participate in areas of the game that you do not. Like me.

I made this thread to give my feedback which happens to be mostly positive. I am not trying to convince anyone to my way of thinking nor am I discounting anyone's negative feedback. I acknowledged that a lot of end game players are upset about U35, and never said they shouldn't be. But ESO isn't broken and it isn't dying and there are a lot of players who still enjoy this game very much.

Here you say ESO isn’t broken, that is frankly not true. You should say it isn’t broken for you.

I am not trolling in your positive thread. I just think you are minimizing the problems that exist because you do not experience them. Lots of other end-game players do.

[edited to remove quote]

SilverBride · December 2022

katanagirl1 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I made this thread to give my feedback which happens to be mostly positive. I am not trying to convince anyone to my way of thinking nor am I discounting anyone's negative feedback. I acknowledged that a lot of end game players are upset about U35, and never said they shouldn't be. But ESO isn't broken and it isn't dying and there are a lot of players who still enjoy this game very much.

Here you say ESO isn’t broken, that is frankly not true. You should say it isn’t broken for you.

I am not trolling in your positive thread. I just think you are minimizing the problems that exist because you do not experience them. Lots of other end-game players do.

ESO is fine for a lot of players so saying it's broken isn't accurate for everyone.

And I am not minimizing any problems. I just believe that all the good things about ESO shouldn't be completely overshadowed by a few poorly received changes and some bugs. There is still a lot to appreciate.

bantamguar · December 2022

SilverBride wrote: »

ESO is fine for a lot of players so saying it's broken isn't accurate for everyone.

And I am not minimizing anything. I just believe that all the good things about ESO shouldn't be completely overshadowed by a few poorly received changes and bugs. There is still a lot to appreciate.

Pointing out problems with ESO doesn't take away from all the positive things it has. It doesn't need to be defended or other's opinions taken so personally.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]