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Thanks for the current pvp meta
Melzo
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The previous patch reduced dot damage and healing. Correspondingly reduced the damage and healing of the necromancer. The pet heals 1000 every 2 seconds and Mortal Coil heals 500 every second. I heal myself for 1000 health per second. You buffed Resolving Vigor in the last patch. It heals twice as much and gives armor. Of course you can draw a conclusion. Why do I need two necromancer skills that heal half as much as one skill. For example, I use the Resolving Vigor skill on the DK and get more self-healing than a necromancer. Playing on my DK after the patch, I got more protection and healing, playing on the necromancer, I got damage reduction and self-healing.
Thanks zos.
In the same patch, you buffed NB. And I have no idea how to kill this class with a necromancer. Can you tell me how to kill an NB who has 33+ thousand lives and deals twice as much damage as you. Nb did not lose survival, but only increased, Nb received a FREE 10 percent damage. I have one question.
WHY? This [snip] meta will last 6 months.
[edited for minor bashing]
Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 4, 2022 7:56PM Thanks zos.
In the same patch, you buffed NB. And I have no idea how to kill this class with a necromancer. Can you tell me how to kill an NB who has 33+ thousand lives and deals twice as much damage as you. Nb did not lose survival, but only increased, Nb received a FREE 10 percent damage. I have one question.
WHY? This [snip] meta will last 6 months.
[edited for minor bashing]
4
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Shihp00✭✭✭Weird . I just killed 2 nightblades on my Mag Necro o.o
I hope I don't run into any good ones
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Melzo✭✭✭✭I also killed nb. But this does not make the Necromancer class strong and nb weak. You just have a weak nb. NB can kill you in one cast, but when I play against an equally strong NB, no matter how hard I try to kill below 50 percent of life, I can't bring it down. I just don't understand how an nb with 33k health has better self-healing and more damage than a necromancer. Why the necromancer was nerfed so much, but at the same time the NB was buffed.1
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Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Is this yet another nerf Sorc thread?
Not yet, let it breathe and we'll get there eventually.5 -
TwiceBornStar✭✭✭✭I'm pretty sure ZOS knows more about how classes are performing in PvP than we do. I'm just going to leave it right there.2 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Resolving Vigor is great, but it is very short duration. You have to keep casting it if you want to keep up the healing and time spent casting heals is time you are not attacking the enemy. You can also run yourself out of stamina using Resolving Vigor if you are not built for max stam/stam regen.
The necro pet absorbs 10% of the damage you take, which is better damage reduction than the minor armor buff from Resolving Vigor.
You also have the option of using Resolving Vigor yourself. You may consider it bad design on ZOS' part if class heals are underperforming a generic utility heal, but that bad design affects all classes. The classes using Resolving Vigor and killing you probably have class heals that they are not using, opting for Resolving Vigor instead. You can do the same. Does that make you feel less "Necromancer-y"? Probably, but using Resolving Vigor probably makes Dragonknights feel less "Dragonknight-y" and Nightblades less "Nightblade-y".3 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dagoth_Rac wrote: »You also have the option of using Resolving Vigor yourself. You may consider it bad design on ZOS' part if class heals are underperforming a generic utility heal, but that bad design affects all classes. The classes using Resolving Vigor and killing you probably have class heals that they are not using, opting for Resolving Vigor instead. You can do the same. Does that make you feel less "Necromancer-y"? Probably, but using Resolving Vigor probably makes Dragonknights feel less "Dragonknight-y" and Nightblades less "Nightblade-y".
Each class has their own form of Major Resolve. Each one and how they are applied is distinctly different from the other, but contribute to class identity- be sure to look them up (the NB major resolve flew under my radar for a while, someone had to point it out to me ;o)
Each class has their own unique minor buff that they apply to everyone in a group with different conditions to have them active (except for necromancers, ironically).
Each class has their own self heals, providing different benefits upon activating.
Sorcs get extra stamina or more targets, or can use stamina in a certain morph to give them more mana and the clannfear heal that scales with HP.
Templars have more powerful heals, and are quite easy to cast.
NBs have heals that damage the enemy and great magicka sustain/utility with one of their AOE heals
DKs get amazing regen with their HP scaling self-heals
Wardens probably have the most powerful heals but they are all directional/skill-shots. Some of their heals even cost stamina!
Necros have the wraith that can tank 10% of the damage they receive (like a free major protection that doesnt have to worry about the hardcaps) or heal twice as fast and therefore produce an extra corpse on the ground to use twice as fast too. They have a heal that provides more armor but has the downside of receiving less healing for a short amount of time. They have a skill that drains the soul of a dead body to provide a healing or damaging tether and restore mana/hp or or increase the regen.
Each one of these classes has heals that are distinctly different from the others and should be countered in different ways.
Resolving Vigor's current state is due to overcorrecting the stam self-sustain issue. Think of it as a band-aid fix. Most of the abilities I listed above have mana costs, but there are no class-specific morphs to all these skills to have stamina as a resource, however when these classes were initially designed, self sustain was likely a thoughtful choice and they decided it should come from mana pools. The majority of players never fully bought into this vision and adopted other metas, so the devs had to adapt. Stamina morphs were likely never fully developed, and this was likely a design choice as they may have not made sense to the devs at the time (they may have thought "well, their healer can heal them- they shouldn't expect to solo an entire army- these are just specks of sand in the desert)- and we truly did feel like another number the game first started (at least it seemed that way in PVP).
Minor resolve is one of those rare buffs that we all of the sudden have access to when we should have had in class kits a while ago. It would have made much more sense for sorcs hardened ward to give minor resolve as a lingering effect, or the DKs Hardened armor (edit: inb4 bound aegis... having it on bound aegis as a slotted passive is poop). Instead we have the unique issue of "too much, too late" in that the devs are responding to requested changes from a long time ago, but these changes come after people have already adjusted to not receiving what was needed years ago, with zero lead-up or anticipation to them because people tend to recoil or respond angrily and/or passionately to change. In reality, the OP's frustrations are partially justified, but in some ways it lacks a perspective and refinementEdited by Dr_Con on December 1, 2022 11:58AM0 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭Dagoth_Rac wrote: »You also have the option of using Resolving Vigor yourself. You may consider it bad design on ZOS' part if class heals are underperforming a generic utility heal, but that bad design affects all classes. The classes using Resolving Vigor and killing you probably have class heals that they are not using, opting for Resolving Vigor instead. You can do the same. Does that make you feel less "Necromancer-y"? Probably, but using Resolving Vigor probably makes Dragonknights feel less "Dragonknight-y" and Nightblades less "Nightblade-y".
Each class has their own form of Major Resolve. Each one and how they are applied is distinctly different from the other, but contribute to class identity- be sure to look them up (the NB major resolve flew under my radar for a while, someone had to point it out to me ;o)
Each class has their own unique minor buff that they apply to everyone in a group with different conditions to have them active (except for necromancers, ironically).
Each class has their own self heals, providing different benefits upon activating.
Sorcs get extra stamina or more targets, or can use stamina in a certain morph to give them more mana and the clannfear heal that scales with HP.
Templars have more powerful heals, and are quite easy to cast.
NBs have heals that damage the enemy and great magicka sustain/utility with one of their AOE heals
DKs get amazing regen with their HP scaling self-heals
Wardens probably have the most powerful heals but they are all directional/skill-shots. Some of their heals even cost stamina!
Necros have the wraith that can tank 10% of the damage they receive (like a free major protection that doesnt have to worry about the hardcaps) or heal twice as fast and therefore produce an extra corpse on the ground to use twice as fast too. They have a heal that provides more armor but has the downside of receiving less healing for a short amount of time. They have a skill that drains the soul of a dead body to provide a healing or damaging tether and restore mana/hp or or increase the regen.
Each one of these classes has heals that are distinctly different from the others and should be countered in different ways.
Resolving Vigor's current state is due to overcorrecting the stam self-sustain issue. Think of it as a band-aid fix. Most of the abilities I listed above have mana costs, but there are no class-specific morphs to all these skills to have stamina as a resource, however when these classes were initially designed, self sustain was likely a thoughtful choice and they decided it should come from mana pools. The majority of players never fully bought into this vision and adopted other metas, so the devs had to adapt. Stamina morphs were likely never fully developed, and this was likely a design choice as they may have not made sense to the devs at the time (they may have thought "well, their healer can heal them- they shouldn't expect to solo an entire army- these are just specks of sand in the desert)- and we truly did feel like another number the game first started (at least it seemed that way in PVP).
Minor resolve is one of those rare buffs that we all of the sudden have access to when we should have had in class kits a while ago. It would have made much more sense for sorcs hardened ward to give minor resolve as a lingering effect, or the DKs Hardened armor (edit: inb4 bound aegis... having it on bound aegis as a slotted passive is poop). Instead we have the unique issue of "too much, too late" in that the devs are responding to requested changes from a long time ago, but these changes come after people have already adjusted to not receiving what was needed years ago, with zero lead-up or anticipation to them because people tend to recoil or respond angrily and/or passionately to change. In reality, the OP's frustrations are partially justified, but in some ways it lacks a perspective and refinement
Templars have more powerful heals, and are quite easy to cast. Please explain this....I'll wait. Yes, Templars have great heals, on paper. However, their ability to effectively heal more efficiently than other classes? No. Templar healing got gutted when Warden came out. Since then, every other class has been given a heal as strong as BoL/HtD. Warden healing Ult > Templar healing Ult, simply due to mobility and not channel locked.
DK Major Mending + Dragon Blood (self heals)
NB Healthy Offering (Same Tooltip as HtD) + Ult synergy
Warden Healing Sead (Same Tooltip as HtD) but affects area, not 1 or 2 people
Necro Render Flesh (Same Tooltip as HtD) and Life amid Death (heals self and allies based on dead corpses nearby - basically what Repentance used to be)
Sorc Summond Twilight (Same Tooltip as HtD), Dark Exchange 2.5x HtD tooltip for self heal.0 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭Well, what can I say. I also want my skull to have a 10% damage bonus.... Necromancers need to pervert in order to defeat someone. Only proc sets help. The main mechanics of the necromancer??? Ha. Goes through the forest...0
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boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Man the whole "why buff nb again" if getting old. They nerfed them into the ground in elswyr, I mean pages of nerfs and haven't had a single meaningful buff I'm ages. They were absolutely atrocious in pve. Sorcs we're breaking 120k while really good nb players were struggling to hit 100k. It's just the style of play. They are burst/stealth by class style. Buffing stealth is useless so you must buff damage to make them in any way viable in pve. Pvp isn't the only consideration here and factually because of it's core class mechanics it is arguably the hardest class to balance for both. That said they get smoked by dks because it literally takes one well places snare to wreck them.2 -
Melzo✭✭✭✭Well, what can I say. I also want my skull to have a 10% damage bonus.... Necromancers need to pervert in order to defeat someone. Only proc sets help. The main mechanics of the necromancer??? Ha. Goes through the forest...boi_anachronism_ wrote: »Man the whole "why buff nb again" if getting old. They nerfed them into the ground in elswyr, I mean pages of nerfs and haven't had a single meaningful buff I'm ages. They were absolutely atrocious in pve. Sorcs we're breaking 120k while really good nb players were struggling to hit 100k. It's just the style of play. They are burst/stealth by class style. Buffing stealth is useless so you must buff damage to make them in any way viable in pve. Pvp isn't the only consideration here and factually because of it's core class mechanics it is arguably the hardest class to balance for both. That said they get smoked by dks because it literally takes one well places snare to wreck them.
I don't understand one thing. I don't remember nb having problems with pve content. All classes have roughly the same damage. Some might be a little more but I doubt you need 100500+ damage to get past the teso. Are you fiddling with a mannequin or something?? And that's why you get so hurt by the damage?? Take out a new mythical ring and go through all the content with one left mouse button. I tried 20 times today to kill the last boss in Vateshran Hollows after the Necromancer's periodic damage nerf. Previously, I calmly killed him, but now for some reason I have great difficulties ?? Why?? I am an average regular player. And the developers rolled out a patch and I can't go through the previous content.... Well, I'll farm a new mythical ring in order to play normally. Otherwise, it is simply impossible for me to play pve content as a necromancer. No damage.... The developers rolled out a patch to strengthen players like me, but now it has become more difficult for me to go through pve content at times. For what??? For the sake of selling the chapter, so that the players would farm the ring ....
You can talk about pve content that your nb is too weak, but in fact the damage at medium levels is the same for them. At least I used to be, but now I can’t go through the solo arena ..1 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TwiceBornStar wrote: »I'm pretty sure ZOS knows more about how classes are performing in PvP than we do.
Pressing 'X' to doubt.4 -
Vulkunne✭✭✭✭✭
✭The previous patch reduced dot damage and healing. Correspondingly reduced the damage and healing of the necromancer. The pet heals 1000 every 2 seconds and Mortal Coil heals 500 every second. I heal myself for 1000 health per second. You buffed Resolving Vigor in the last patch. It heals twice as much and gives armor. Of course you can draw a conclusion. Why do I need two necromancer skills that heal half as much as one skill. For example, I use the Resolving Vigor skill on the DK and get more self-healing than a necromancer. Playing on my DK after the patch, I got more protection and healing, playing on the necromancer, I got damage reduction and self-healing.
Thanks zos.
In the same patch, you buffed NB. And I have no idea how to kill this class with a necromancer. Can you tell me how to kill an NB who has 33+ thousand lives and deals twice as much damage as you. Nb did not lose survival, but only increased, Nb received a FREE 10 percent damage. I have one question.
WHY? This [snip] meta will last 6 months.
Right. You don't know how to kill it because (for those NBs which took the health spammable) you're not going up against a NB you're really fighting a DK.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 4, 2022 7:56PMThank you for your attention to this matter.0
