The issue with Vamps if I understand it properly

Nidwin · April 2014

Haven't put a foot in RvR yet but I think I understand the Vamp issue.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Vamps can have their Ult and Mist up together?

If that's the case the Vamp is able to fulfill the entire holy trinity as one single toon, breaking the basic of rock scizor pater rule.

High damage -> DPS
75% damage reduction and immune to CC -> Tank
Heal if morphed -> Healer, or Invisible what makes it 10 times worse as the Vamp becomes the ultimate AOE rogue

What needs to be done is making it impossible to have both Bat Swarm and Mist active at the same time. What also needs to be checked is corrolation with other skills to have more or less the same effect Vamp have now.

RaZaddha · April 2014

Not all vamps use mist form. I saw a few DK vamps with 1H&S blocking forever and occasionally charging into a group of players and spamming Talons until they all died from bat swarm.

Nidwin · April 2014

More or less the same issue. $:\$

Syndy · April 2014

@Nidwin‌

Yes Vamps are annoying, the batswarm does not really bother a decent group, it owns mindless blobs of players. I believe it is a bug that allows them to heal when using bat Swarm with mistform active, because Mist is supposed to negate all healing on the player using it.

Honestly Bat Swarm is not really that big of an issue, the most annoying thing is just the Mist in general. Amazing spammable escape tool, just slightly worse than Bolt Escape from Sorcs... Those two abilities allow the player to get out of almost any circumstance where they are at an disadvantage and are likely to die....

Also HI!

This is Syndia, Syndai from WAR!

Edit:
Nerf Magus!

RaZaddha · April 2014

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

@Nidwin‌

Yes Vamps are annoying, the batswarm does not really bother a decent group, it owns mindless blobs of players. I believe it is a bug that allows them to heal when using bat Swarm with mistform active, because Mist is supposed to negate all healing on the player using it.

Honestly Bat Swarm is not really that big of an issue, the most annoying thing is just the Mist in general. Amazing spammable escape tool, just slightly worse than Bolt Escape from Sorcs... Those two abilities allow the player to get out of almost any circumstance where they are at an disadvantage and are likely to die....

Also HI!

This is Syndia, Syndai from WAR!

It's not just the Mist thats broken, it's the cost reduction to the ult.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyZsIDSSGV4
He has 100% uptime of the ult.

Syndy · April 2014

Yes, which needs a fix. You should not be able to gain ultimate while using another Ultimate.

My group rarely has a problem with vamps that try the whole Infinite bat swarm thing.

1) We avoid zergs
2) Currently Dark Talons allows you to root the Vamp in Mist form...

We have a DK in there with the Vamp trying to spam his ult, only he is just hitting 1 person so he won't be able to use it again for a while. Which cause the vamp to go into Mist again, to try to run, which is where the chain roots start. And you slowly but surely wittle his/her hp down while they are in mist form, trying to get a KD or stun for the split second he/she is not in mist.

It's annoying to have to do, but to kill them that is what has to be done, which is rather disheartening that it takes so much effort to kill something so blatantly broken, yet so feverishly defended as being not broken.

Vaiku · April 2014

Yes... more people with little PvP experience discussing what needs to be done. Seems like a common theme.
The ultimate is the main problem. Mist is annoying, but it's not forcing a 1v20 to either die, or coordinate and spread out just for the sake of taking down 1 player. One player, regardless of how they combine their abilities, should not be able to force a whole raid into coordination just to take 1 person down. It's ridiculous.

Syndy · April 2014

Little PvP experience eh?

I will disregard that comment because you are assuming you know something about me, which you don't.

Your whole raid should be coordinated anyway. I mean, how else do you take any objectives, deal with Broken Talons + AoE spam?

I'm guessing just throw more bodies at it until the bad people go away.

Vaiku · April 2014

First off... I was referring to OP, calm your neckbeard.
And expecting every group in cyrodiil to be organized, is far fetched in itself. Expecting them to organize and move on the fly just to take down ONE person is beyond reasonable.
Coordination required to take a keep is far less intensive as it is to, out of the blue, spread out and range down 1 vampire.

No one's given one good reason as to why vampire's SHOULDN'T be nerfed. All the arguments say that everyone should just adjust their strategy even 30v1 to take care of a vampire, yet those same people find it unfathomable that they might have to adjust their own strategy when they can't just faceroll into a wall of enemy players?

Syndy · April 2014

@Vaiku‌

I agree wholeheartedly. Hopefully there will be a serious nerf to that Skill line. My guild has never been keen on getting big groups or staying near big groups, we like to do our own thing. Ganking Reinforcements, Capturing Resources, etc.

The Bat Swarm issue hardly ever happens to us because we are rarely around enough friendlies where the vampire can spam the ability.

oziebanks_ESO · April 2014

As a vampire myself, I agree that those that can spam the ultimate need to have it nerfed. However, keep in mind that most of us CANNOT use this method, especially with the current issue of vampire passives and cost reduction not working.

In the video above, that player has his ultimate reduced due to vampirism stage 4, which is common. However they also are using armor that further drops their cost. Im not totally sure what class that is, but I know sorcs also have an ultimate drop ability, and other move morphs can allow u to gain ultimate as you take damage. As far as the mist bug, I have never tried to mist and devouring swarm at the same time, but yes if it works it needs to be fixed as well. I think mist itself is fine, vampires are supposed to be somewhat strong so the 75% damage reduction I agree with. We can only use it about 2 or 3 times before we run out of magic anyway, and with our weaknesses this defense move fits in perfectly.

The player in the video is gaining ultimate WHILE using an ultimate. THAT needs to be nerfed. Bat swarm will still charge fairly fast, but not fast enough that a group cant kill him first.

Believe it or not, most vampires do not try and do this cheap method, and we are instead weaker than normal because as of the time of this post, when a vampire dies, we lose ALL of our vampire passive abilities, as well as our cost reductions on out ultimate. In fact I dont think my ultimate has EVER cost less than 200. The only way to fix this, is to relog, and then to feed and wait the hour+ it takes to reach stage 4 again.

I see two solutions to this problem. 1) Don't allow an ultimate to fall below a certain cost. Make it a soft cap like the rest of our stats. 2) Don't allow an ultimate to start charging again until it is finished.

We are weak enough with our passives not working and our fire weakness and low health regen. We don't need to nerf the entire skill line because a few players are exploiting a bug. You fix the bug first, THEN look at balance again.

Sleepydan · May 2014

What blows my mind is how people like that v10 dk video and blame the bat swarm and not the infinite blocking.

Someone please explain to me why the method of your demise is relevant when the enemy is practically invincible?

Yes the bat swarm healing is nice. There are other ways to heal while infinite blocking, as there are way to do consistent damage while infinite blocking.

Bat swarm is just the most compact package.

Nerf infinite blocking and leave the rest alone. Until that brand of op is gone it is hard to say if this concept will even hold water.

dexfmb16_ESO · May 2014

Infinite blocking is not an issue if the only thing it does is prevent damage. It becomes an issue if you can damage while blocking. You can't block someone to death. And block drains you of stamina which prevents you from using other stamina offensive abilities, like bash.

Thechemicals · May 2014

I believe the methods to defeat a vampire are specific and widely unused. A playerbase that is required to have a specific set of skills/abilities to defeat a vampire is acceptable so long as there are other builds that can perform in the same way as a vampire without having to be a vampire. This is where the problem begins.

A big reason why the industry favors cooldowns in games....so things like mist form arent gear tailored to become spammable and undefeatable.

Arpheus · May 2014

I think if they changed ultimate to max 50% reduction hardcap and made it so that ultimate is only generated max. once per skill activation or that ultimates themselves don't generate any ultimate it should balance most of the issues we currently have.
An ultimate usually costing 300+ should not be refilled in 2 seconds. It should rather take at least 15 seconds even if you AoE like hell. That way you have a downtime of your ultimates and cannot be godmode.
That would also make low ultimate cost ultimates interesting since you can refill them faster. But if you can refill a 300 ultimate in 2 sec (ultimate cost reduction + aoe spam) why use the weaker ones?

The main Issue with the dragonknight is that he has a passive which gives him in theory 35 or 70% of the ultimate cost but from the videos it seems they sometimes get 660 or more magicka/stamina and life every 2-3 seconds. That is why they can keep block uptime of 100% and with bat swarm they can even damage/heal while blocking which is crazy.
Something with the calculation is very wrong there but that was posted already in other topics.
I think if they changed it to really 35 or 70% of the ultimate cost (with the ultimate cost reduction) and making ultimate harder to refill with AoE there should be no more god mode chars.
Maybe also change the 65% lifeleech on crit for sorceress so that it can only proc once per skill activation.

Sleepydan · May 2014

Let me ask you this. Infinite blocking is apparently ok.

Infinite blocking also means infinite immunity to cc.

You can cast spells while blocking.

You guys are telling me there are NO other spells, ultimate abilities or otherwise that can be done by any class that can slow roll a group of people while you hide behind your shield forever. I won't pretend to be the best theory crafter , but I would think that dropping vampirism for the negatives that comes with it and spam dropping dk standard with the ult reduction set and using your mana to cast that dk self heal , or burning talons, or that pbaoe fire spell, would be just as troll. Less compact and more resource intensive, but still a persistent aoe damage , big self healing ultimate dropping block machine.

Don't forget you can also have 100% uptime on your potions with the right glyphs

I refuse to believe a more dedicated mind can't come up with something more compelling than that top of the head replacement.

I also find ult reduction to be a fun concept. Ultimate a are cool. More ultimate are double cool.

Infinite blocking is cheese. Would you defend infinite blue bar as well as infinite green?

sagitter · May 2014

Bat swarm + myst form + battle roar+ ultimate reduction costs. This way u can spam bats and with battle roar passive u gain mana endu and hp every time u use ultimate.
+

Nidwin · May 2014

So, Bright Wizard's story all over again. Let's hope we won't have to wait till Players vs Devl to have this stuff properly nerfed this time.

tjrichards01_ESO · May 2014

f0rgiv3n27b14_ESO wrote: »

@Nidwin‌

Yes Vamps are annoying, the batswarm does not really bother a decent group, it owns mindless blobs of players. I believe it is a bug that allows them to heal when using bat Swarm with mistform active, because Mist is supposed to negate all healing on the player using it.

Honestly Bat Swarm is not really that big of an issue, the most annoying thing is just the Mist in general. Amazing spammable escape tool, just slightly worse than Bolt Escape from Sorcs... Those two abilities allow the player to get out of almost any circumstance where they are at an disadvantage and are likely to die....

when bat swarm is morph it restores health from all enemies within range. But yes it shouldnt work with mist form at the same time.... all vampires are super easy to kill but against the mindless zerg tards that rush them that bat swarm annihilates them all causing babies to cry about them wasting 40 stupid ppl that dont know how to play at once.. Hit vamps with fire and ranged abilities if u know that they those people that spam bats and stay out of melee range, if those 40 tards pull out a bow or spells and stay out of range the vampire will die in a few seconds just like everyone else.