How to improve BG queue times without scaring away players (experienced BG player)
TumlinTheJolly
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Currently there are two queues:
-Solo Random Battleground and;
-Group Random Battleground
These queues DO NOT COMBINE, even after attempting to create matches for a long duration. This is good, as combining the queues would result in premade groups farming solo players, therefore scaring off solo players and killing BGs.
THE PROBLEM:
This splitting of the player base often results in very long BG queues.
THE SOLUTION:
Leave the two existing queues intact but create a third queue option named something like 'Joint Random Battleground or just 'Random Battleground', that signs you up to be placed in a Solo-only game OR a Group game. i.e. Lets solo players queue up in both queues at the same time and join whichever pops first.
This would provide solo players the OPTION of VSing premade groups - in order to speed up their queue time, when desired, but not force solo/new players to face premade groups if they'd prefer to simply wait out the solo-only queue.
NOTE:
I know that there have many 'solutions' proposed to fix BG queues over the years but believe this to be the most effective, efficient and equitable solution.
-Solo Random Battleground and;
-Group Random Battleground
These queues DO NOT COMBINE, even after attempting to create matches for a long duration. This is good, as combining the queues would result in premade groups farming solo players, therefore scaring off solo players and killing BGs.
THE PROBLEM:
This splitting of the player base often results in very long BG queues.
THE SOLUTION:
Leave the two existing queues intact but create a third queue option named something like 'Joint Random Battleground or just 'Random Battleground', that signs you up to be placed in a Solo-only game OR a Group game. i.e. Lets solo players queue up in both queues at the same time and join whichever pops first.
This would provide solo players the OPTION of VSing premade groups - in order to speed up their queue time, when desired, but not force solo/new players to face premade groups if they'd prefer to simply wait out the solo-only queue.
NOTE:
I know that there have many 'solutions' proposed to fix BG queues over the years but believe this to be the most effective, efficient and equitable solution.
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OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't think it's a bad idea buuuut... I think solo que is faster than group que at medium to high mmr. So you're kinda solving a problem that doesn't exist. A way to make the group que faster is what's needed I think. But I may be wrong, or experiences may vary by platform.0 -
Kaelthorn_Nightbloom✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The Group & Activity Finder addon does this but it's been broken for 4-5 months. The community is trying to fix it.
https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info2800-GroupActivityFinderExtensions.html#comments
Edited by Kaelthorn_Nightbloom on November 20, 2022 7:13AMPC NA0 -
TumlinTheJolly✭✭✭✭I don't think it's a bad idea buuuut... I think solo que is faster than group que at medium to high mmr. So you're kinda solving a problem that doesn't exist. A way to make the group que faster is what's needed I think. But I may be wrong, or experiences may vary by platform.
Yeeeah this would speed up group queues, but mostly late at night when the solo queue times dropped off.
In terms of solo queues, they can get pretty insanely long for super high MMR players, so these players would actually get faster games if matchmaking gave up and just threw them against groups (and they'd be more competitive against groups than low MMR players, which is good for everyone involved!). This would also speed up group queues.
I really don't think there's any other way to speed up group queue without killing BGs. You CANNOT force casual solo players to vs groups. Matchmaking in group queue already seems pretty flexible.Edited by TumlinTheJolly on November 22, 2022 10:10AM2 -
LesserCircle✭✭✭✭✭
✭How about making PvP easier to get into and making classes more balanced?. There's a really big barrier to entry between traits, gear... Don't get me wrong, I PvP and I have all of that but try getting some friends or new players into it, let's see how long it takes for them to quit.0 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How to improve the bg queue times?
-Have actual separate dm / objective queues
-Rework objective modes to encourage conflict or reduce the number of teams for these modes to 2
-Fix bugs in a more timely matter
-Give ap for kills in bgs
-Increase ap rewards from bgs
-Winning the bg of the day should grant 10 transmutes like a random normal does
-Motifs, mounts, or other cosmetic drops from bgs (low chance for drop)
-Listen to pts feedback when new sets are overloaded (dc hrothgar upon release drove players away and took far too long to fine tune)
-Make it clear to the bg community that they actually matter (only content added in 5 years for bgs was 1 map in 2019)PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden2 -
Freelancer_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭If it actually kicked in, wouldn't it primarily function by making long solo queues even longer?
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tonyblack✭✭✭✭✭Imho, group queue should be for those who organize team vs team matches through guilds and discord. If you throw random pugs against 4 or even 3 and 2 man pre made it would always turn into farming weak players with barely any conterplay. Devs decision of making it random mode also doesn’t help as most pvpers i know of would prefer to play deathmatch only for group fights and objective modes usually turn into 2 teams fighting while third capping all objectives avoiding pvp. Improving it to be able to select mode and add an option to remove third party (4 vs 4 or 3 vs 3 matches) would be far better than splitting queue even further.
Edited by tonyblack on November 22, 2022 4:43PM0 -
Dem_kitkats1✭✭✭✭gariondavey wrote: »How to improve the bg queue times?
-Have actual separate dm / objective queues
-Rework objective modes to encourage conflict or reduce the number of teams for these modes to 2
-Fix bugs in a more timely matter
-Give ap for kills in bgs
-Increase ap rewards from bgs
-Winning the bg of the day should grant 10 transmutes like a random normal does
-Motifs, mounts, or other cosmetic drops from bgs (low chance for drop)
-Listen to pts feedback when new sets are overloaded (dc hrothgar upon release drove players away and took far too long to fine tune)
-Make it clear to the bg community that they actually matter (only content added in 5 years for bgs was 1 map in 2019)
Yep. Incentives and content are really the only way to gain interest for the community as a whole, without negatively affecting new players. I usually only queue solo, but as a single player I thought you could always queue for both. So the problem isn't the queues, it's the general lack of interest BGs that's the problem.Edited by Dem_kitkats1 on November 22, 2022 6:08PM0 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No pre made groups is the best way to improve it. You're literally angry because you got group queues, which takes people out of the queue.0 -
TumlinTheJolly✭✭✭✭gariondavey wrote: »How to improve the bg queue times?
-Have actual separate dm / objective queues
-Rework objective modes to encourage conflict or reduce the number of teams for these modes to 2
-Fix bugs in a more timely matter
-Give ap for kills in bgs
-Increase ap rewards from bgs
-Winning the bg of the day should grant 10 transmutes like a random normal does
-Motifs, mounts, or other cosmetic drops from bgs (low chance for drop)
-Listen to pts feedback when new sets are overloaded (dc hrothgar upon release drove players away and took far too long to fine tune)
-Make it clear to the bg community that they actually matter (only content added in 5 years for bgs was 1 map in 2019)
Separating DM/objective would make queues longer... Unless you provided a similar solution to what this thread is about. Perhaps you could use a tick box system similar to specific dungeon finder (e.g. a box for Solo, Group, each game mode), where you can tick multiple options.
BG gold and cosmetics have already been improved significantly with little effect.
Increasing transmute crystal rewards would be good though.Edited by TumlinTheJolly on December 5, 2022 1:31AM0 -
TumlinTheJolly✭✭✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »No pre made groups is the best way to improve it. You're literally angry because you got group queues, which takes people out of the queue.
Or am I angry because I got solo queues? Huehue0 -
gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TumlinTheJolly wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »How to improve the bg queue times?
-Have actual separate dm / objective queues
-Rework objective modes to encourage conflict or reduce the number of teams for these modes to 2
-Fix bugs in a more timely matter
-Give ap for kills in bgs
-Increase ap rewards from bgs
-Winning the bg of the day should grant 10 transmutes like a random normal does
-Motifs, mounts, or other cosmetic drops from bgs (low chance for drop)
-Listen to pts feedback when new sets are overloaded (dc hrothgar upon release drove players away and took far too long to fine tune)
-Make it clear to the bg community that they actually matter (only content added in 5 years for bgs was 1 map in 2019)
Separating DM/objective would make queues longer... Unless you provided a similar solution to what this thread is about. Perhaps you could use a tick box system similar to specific dungeon finder (e.g. a box for Solo, Group, each game mode), where you can tick multiple options.
BG gold and cosmetics have already been improved significantly with little effect.
Increasing transmute crystal rewards would be good though.
Pretty simple...if you can control the mode you want to play, more people will play. Queues will be shorter then.PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden0 -
jtm1018✭✭✭✭✭I play bg in ps and pc.
Ps over an hour or so for a bg match.
Pc less than 15 minutes in q.
I think player pop is a big factor here, but thats me speculating.
And I am 100% sure pc has more players than ps.0 -
Starpulsechic✭✭✭To be honest with the where population is at with BG's and the reduced activity of BG guilds it might be the time to consider the validity of removing the Solo/Group splits.
At this point in the lifecycle of the game there maybe value to have a que for Objective matches and a que for Deathmatch matches which just allows group, solo, duo's all together.
The reason Solo vs Group were split out to begin with was due to the feedback aligning with the active bg guild scene which to which pre-made groups that would be consistently playing for consecutive hours a day in min/maxed synergy builds. This made it a miserable experience for solo players loading in against this if you weren't apart of a premade.
For PC NA Its far more common to see duo's if anything these days. If 4man groups que they are lucky to get a few matches because the wait is still substantial where there arent other known groups queuing at the same time. Most people know not to que as a 3 man unless you want to sit in que for over an hour.
I'm sure ZOS can do their own research this to establish whether my observation is consistent.
I dont think we will see new content in this area of the game. I think the most they do in this space is tinker with the way you can que and how it is split and if possible change the reward incentives.
Edited by Starpulsechic on December 5, 2022 5:22AM0 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The only way to improve BG queue times, is to make players want to play PvP. And the only way this can happen, is if the skillgap is much much much smaller. Where the floor and ceiling players are only 10% DPS apart.
Battlegrounds right now are only about burstdamage. Right now most players die in a 0.2 sec burstattack, without being able to respond at all. This isn't fun, nor would I call it PvP. And the result is that player never entering PvP ever again. No incentive is ever going to change this. The endresult is what we have now, barely anyone PvPing.
Take for example the original oakensoul ring, this allowed for more fair PvP battles. As players did no longer die in 0.2 seconds from burstdamage, but in 2 seconds instead. This gave players a chance to react and learn from their mistakes, causing real PvP to happen for the first time ever. While at the same time allowing players to actually grow into PvP. But this was highly criticized by PvPers, as most PvPers aren't really looking for real battles, but like to slaughter others. No matter how the slaughtered player feels about this. But this type of skillgap closer is needed to safe PvP, and it shouldn't be through a mythic, but it should be through a basegame feature or base character strenght. (maybe a + 1 million health through battle spirit, so there can be actual PvP battles)
So the only way for PvP to flourish, is in my opinion, to reduce the skillgap to where there hardly isn't one. And to no longer have burstdamage-based PvP battles.Edited by Sarannah on December 5, 2022 9:11AM0 -
TumlinTheJolly✭✭✭✭The only way to improve BG queue times, is to make players want to play PvP. And the only way this can happen, is if the skillgap is much much much smaller. Where the floor and ceiling players are only 10% DPS apart.
Battlegrounds right now are only about burstdamage. Right now most players die in a 0.2 sec burstattack, without being able to respond at all. This isn't fun, nor would I call it PvP. And the result is that player never entering PvP ever again. No incentive is ever going to change this. The endresult is what we have now, barely anyone PvPing.
Take for example the original oakensoul ring, this allowed for more fair PvP battles. As players did no longer die in 0.2 seconds from burstdamage, but in 2 seconds instead. This gave players a chance to react and learn from their mistakes, causing real PvP to happen for the first time ever. While at the same time allowing players to actually grow into PvP. But this was highly criticized by PvPers, as most PvPers aren't really looking for real battles, but like to slaughter others. No matter how the slaughtered player feels about this. But this type of skillgap closer is needed to safe PvP, and it shouldn't be through a mythic, but it should be through a basegame feature or base character strenght. (maybe a + 1 million health through battle spirit, so there can be actual PvP battles)
So the only way for PvP to flourish, is in my opinion, to reduce the skillgap to where there hardly isn't one. And to no longer have burstdamage-based PvP battles.
Good idea!... They should disable block, dodge and bash in PVP so that we can all do same DPS and PvP together for much fun
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INM✭✭✭✭The only way to improve BG queue times, is to make players want to play PvP. And the only way this can happen, is if the skillgap is much much much smaller. Where the floor and ceiling players are only 10% DPS apart.
It's impossible to achieve. It's the same issue as in PvE. One group of players is pushing buttons, another one isn't. It can be resolved only by proper skill-based matchmaking.
Speaking of queues. If you want to make queue times better, you have to bring more players to the table. And you can't funnel players there by rewards, gameplay itself must be better. I personally don't like bg's because I think that the 3 teams format isn't working and game modes are poorly designed. And it's seasoned with viscous fights were no one is dying.
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TumlinTheJolly✭✭✭✭garrsstephen wrote: »Can you not just queue and search for both anyways? Console can
Unfortunately no. You can queue for either as a solo player, but you can't queue for both at the same time. I think the tick box solution would actually be better than the solution in the OP...
So you could tick multiple options out of:
-Solo
-Group
+
-Deathmatch
-Capture the Flag
-Domination
-Chaosball
-Crazy King
(perhaps remove CtF, Dom, Chaos, Crazy and add random game mode)
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gariondavey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TumlinTheJolly wrote: »gariondavey wrote: »How to improve the bg queue times?
-Have actual separate dm / objective queues
-Rework objective modes to encourage conflict or reduce the number of teams for these modes to 2
-Fix bugs in a more timely matter
-Give ap for kills in bgs
-Increase ap rewards from bgs
-Winning the bg of the day should grant 10 transmutes like a random normal does
-Motifs, mounts, or other cosmetic drops from bgs (low chance for drop)
-Listen to pts feedback when new sets are overloaded (dc hrothgar upon release drove players away and took far too long to fine tune)
-Make it clear to the bg community that they actually matter (only content added in 5 years for bgs was 1 map in 2019)
Separating DM/objective would make queues longer... Unless you provided a similar solution to what this thread is about. Perhaps you could use a tick box system similar to specific dungeon finder (e.g. a box for Solo, Group, each game mode), where you can tick multiple options.
BG gold and cosmetics have already been improved significantly with little effect.
Increasing transmute crystal rewards would be good though.
More people would queue because they get to play how they want.
I'm in a bg community and like 75 percent of players have either quit or don't bother playing bgs because they are a colossal disappointment.
If people could choose their game mode you can guarantee more would queue up.PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden0
