LikiLoki wrote: »

Perhaps it's time to abandon consoles in general. This device has an expiration date like a phone: if you purchase a console, then be ready to change it as quickly as your mobile phone

An f word springs to mind...

virtus753 wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

seebra wrote: »

jtm1018 wrote: »

seebra wrote: »

I'm probably going to get some hate for this thread but ZOS should start considering dropping last generation consoles because it holds game back. I'm not saying that they should do it immediately
but holding them indefinitely is bad for pc users. When it happens we could start seeing big things happening such as new classes, animations, skill trees etc. High isle gave us TOT because of console limitations.

edit: Also to clarify this, I'm not blaming console users for this.

Are pc and console on the same server?

Does performance on console server greatly hampers pc server?

Do console and pc server cross play?

Cant they develop eso any further if they dont drop last gen console? Is that really the case? Did they officially said this? Like, "last gen console is dragging down eso, we cant develop eso any further if we dont cut off those last gen console"

Devs has said that it limits them. I'm at bed atm but I can search it tomorrow.

They never said this. You're basically twisting what was actually said. Maybe look it up before posting the claim.

Last gen consoles are part of the “minimum specs” cited here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512076/february-2020-furnishing-limit-status-update/p1

They have also said such consoles inhibit the addition of combat animations:

46:00 on: https://youtu.be/-wy8rYq5t9o

What he said was they had an issue with memory that temporarily stopped them for 6 months and they resolved it. They have also later stated it's not impossible to add new classes because of consoles.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Here's their latest statement.

Just to see if we can dispel one of the myths running within The Elder Scrolls Online community, is it true that you'd have problems introducing any additional skill trees due to the limited memory of old-generation consoles (PlayStation 4, Xbox One)?

Nothing is impossible. I mean, we do have to be careful. There's only so much memory on those consoles for sure and we have to be smart about what we do. We do have a focus on performance and making the game run really well. So there's a balance.

Okay. But it is not impossible that new skill trees may be added to The Elder Scrolls Online in the future.

It is not impossible, no.

https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

Be careful of his phrasing. “Nothing is impossible” is not the same as “we are not going that route because we want to spend their limited resources on other things and can’t do it all.” It is not impossible to do the individual things, per Firor. But they can’t do everything because of max available resources.

If ZOS is choosing to spend those limited resources on things that are not new animations/weapon lines/classes because there is not enough in terms of resources on min-spec machines to do all the things they want, that is by definition being limited by min-spec machines (low end PCs included).

It’s like saying I could buy a three-floor house or I can buy a luxury car, but I couldn’t afford both. Neither is impossible, but I am limited in my choice because of my resources.

Man last gen consoles aren't the issue, ESO's horrible and outdated engine is the problem. It doesn't help either that their explanation for why a new class hasn't been added makes no sense. They said they can't add any more animations cause last gen consoles can't handle it. No more news animations? So what's the explanation behind the new momentos and emotes that pop up each crown crate season? And I know that the comparison I'm about to make is comparing apples to oranges, but look at Red Dead Redemption 2's 300,000 animations. 64,000 of them alone are from the horses. The Xbox One and PS4 can handle a lot, and let's not forget that a major issue with performance is the servers. Remember Cyrodiil lag? Well on PC when the servers got upgraded not too long ago the lag ended. ZOS is still working on upgrading console servers and when they do a lot of lag issues will be resolved.

What even are the specs for RAM and VRAM for the old consoles?

I remember LotusOfDoom on Tales of Tamriel talking about how high-end raiding on PS4 was literally impossible due to the atrocious pop-in and un-animated trials features (like boss heavy attacks, etc.). These would likely be features of a lack of memory paired with an aging processor. He upgraded to PS5 and never looked back.

Dropping the old consoles obviously doesn't need to happen immediately but they came out in 2013 (!!!!), almost a full decade ago. The idea of a "soft drop" that some have mentioned sounds like an appealing middle group, where updates are enabled for current consoles and PC but not for the legacy consoles.

ArchMikem wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Perhaps in 2024, they should re-evaluate. But, it's not the time now. Consoles are scarce right now, so their old console base can't easily get them even if they want to. They can't just lose like 1/2 and 2/3rds of their income so casually. And ZOS has bigger issues to finish sorting anyway.

Yup. I waited two years before finally getting a Series X, even then Gamestop only had two in stocks at that time and they were selling them as bundles to make more money. Waiting two years and paying extra just for a nicer ESO.

Same here. I have a PS5 now, but it took me 2 years to get my hands on one and I had to buy a bundle for a game I already owned.

Molydeus wrote: »

alternatelder wrote: »

seebra wrote: »

jtm1018 wrote: »

seebra wrote: »

I'm probably going to get some hate for this thread but ZOS should start considering dropping last generation consoles because it holds game back. I'm not saying that they should do it immediately
but holding them indefinitely is bad for pc users. When it happens we could start seeing big things happening such as new classes, animations, skill trees etc. High isle gave us TOT because of console limitations.

edit: Also to clarify this, I'm not blaming console users for this.

Are pc and console on the same server?

Does performance on console server greatly hampers pc server?

Do console and pc server cross play?

Cant they develop eso any further if they dont drop last gen console? Is that really the case? Did they officially said this? Like, "last gen console is dragging down eso, we cant develop eso any further if we dont cut off those last gen console"

Devs has said that it limits them. I'm at bed atm but I can search it tomorrow.

They never said this. You're basically twisting what was actually said. Maybe look it up before posting the claim.

It was said though, in an interview with Matt Firor on a widely-watched stream. You can look up the YouTube video easily.

They literally said: "anything is possible" in the interview, then they went on and said that they just need to be careful to make sure everything keeps working.

Don't forget that newer consoles have smart delivery, they could easily cater to all systems and add newer effects and better graphics for specific consoles or pc.

Not making a new class or any other combat gameplay mechanics is just a choice, it's not nescessarily because of older consoles.

Also take in mind that most issues described where due to lack of memory. Upgrading a system is not a good fix for that, they'll need better memory management. And if I'm not mistaken the recent client rewrite already fixed a ton.

If I had to guess, the reason no new combat features are added is because they are rewriting the entire server code, that's a far more logical expanation than just old hardware.

Don't forget that a game like red dead redemption 2 can be played on older consoles just fine.

LikiLoki wrote: »

Perhaps it's time to abandon consoles in general. This device has an expiration date like a phone: if you purchase a console, then be ready to change it as quickly as your mobile phone

So every 5-10 years? That's about how consoles go already.

Lebkuchen wrote: »

seebra wrote: »

I'm probably going to get some hate for this thread but ZOS should start considering dropping last generation consoles because it holds game back. I'm not saying that they should do it immediately
but holding them indefinitely is bad for pc users. When it happens we could start seeing big things happening such as new classes, animations, skill trees etc. High isle gave us TOT because of console limitations.

edit: Also to clarify this, I'm not blaming console users for this.

I am shocked by how many people "agree" with scapegoating, false promises and straight lies... I can not buy a new console without paying for a scalper's new "investment project" and you want to take my favorite game away? Reading this made me remember the planned 'always online' functionality in 2013, and the Microsoft Studios creative director telling people to "deal with it" and "get with the times and get the Internet." Some people live so far in the future they can not see what's going on today.

A lot of people seem to be under the impression that these decisions are just about specs. It's not. The population of the game was stated to be roughly equal between platforms, so that means that about 1/2 to 2/3rds of the playerbase. That's a lot of the budget no matter where that lands. They can't make great new things for PC with such a crippled budget.

In addition, it also depends on what their current plans are. Right now, they have a problem with making any new content because the pandemic badly delayed their ability to replace their servers and they also have discovered issues with base code of the game. The pandemic also greatly delayed their consoles customer's ability to upgrade their equipment.

They will eventually drop support for old consoles, most likely. But it won't be until they have the time to make use of the upgraded potential and enough of their paying playerbase have made the upgrade that they aren't losing 2/3rds of their budget.

PC players aren't being held back by console players, because console players are a major source of the income of this game. This game may not even still exist if console were to suddenly disappear.

This is not realistic and it's not going to happen. Half or more of ZoS' customers would instantly disappear. Console servers would be a wasteland. Guilds would be barren. People don't seem to understand how uncommon the new gen still is.

I'm on Playstation. I made the jump to the 5 earlier this year. It was NOT easy to get my hands on one!! They are NOT easily available. Prepare to spend a long time refreshing websites or plan to spend a hundred [or 2] more from a 3rd party seller. I'm in the Midwest so maybe it's different based on area?

On my ps4: I was off tanking and progging DB. I could not see the tidebreakers kneel. I couldn't see the snake on the first boss jump. The final boss mini would often not appear until after he had killed a dps. There are numerous other things in other trials that make it really awful to play on a 4.

I have many ps4 friends. Some cannot get their hands on a 5. A few have added a SSD to their 4, which seems to remedy A LOT of the issues with the 4.

If ps5's were easy to get.. it would make a lot more sense to me.

Dragonlord573 wrote: »

Man last gen consoles aren't the issue, ESO's horrible and outdated engine is the problem. It doesn't help either that their explanation for why a new class hasn't been added makes no sense. They said they can't add any more animations cause last gen consoles can't handle it. No more news animations? So what's the explanation behind the new momentos and emotes that pop up each crown crate season? And I know that the comparison I'm about to make is comparing apples to oranges, but look at Red Dead Redemption 2's 300,000 animations. 64,000 of them alone are from the horses. The Xbox One and PS4 can handle a lot, and let's not forget that a major issue with performance is the servers. Remember Cyrodiil lag? Well on PC when the servers got upgraded not too long ago the lag ended. ZOS is still working on upgrading console servers and when they do a lot of lag issues will be resolved.

Yes, the game engine is many years old now. I suspect that the code needs to be ported to something newer at this point. At some date these things are no longer supported and the move is forced upon you. Have they planned for this and budgeted it into their schedule?

I think this is what they mean by stating that a server upgrade would not solve all the problems.

LordRukia wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Here's their latest statement.

Just to see if we can dispel one of the myths running within The Elder Scrolls Online community, is it true that you'd have problems introducing any additional skill trees due to the limited memory of old-generation consoles (PlayStation 4, Xbox One)?

Nothing is impossible. I mean, we do have to be careful. There's only so much memory on those consoles for sure and we have to be smart about what we do. We do have a focus on performance and making the game run really well. So there's a balance.

Okay. But it is not impossible that new skill trees may be added to The Elder Scrolls Online in the future.

It is not impossible, no.

https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

ETA
They did this to specifically clear up the common misconception that the comment they made about a 6 month time period was true of the entire game from now until console support is dropped. Console is not preventing a new class. The server re-architecure and server replacements are. Those would be needed with or without console.

All I see is PR talk and avoiding a definitive answer, which they did not give but could have. Nothing is impossible is such a gimmick , its not impossible that I could become the next president of the united states or the universe could implode at any second. If they had said "consoles are not preventing us from doing this" then you'd have a case.

But the opposite must also be true. If they had definitively said "consoles are preventing us from doing this" then you'd have a case.

LordRukia wrote: »

opalcity wrote: »

LordRukia wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Here's their latest statement.

Just to see if we can dispel one of the myths running within The Elder Scrolls Online community, is it true that you'd have problems introducing any additional skill trees due to the limited memory of old-generation consoles (PlayStation 4, Xbox One)?

Nothing is impossible. I mean, we do have to be careful. There's only so much memory on those consoles for sure and we have to be smart about what we do. We do have a focus on performance and making the game run really well. So there's a balance.

Okay. But it is not impossible that new skill trees may be added to The Elder Scrolls Online in the future.

It is not impossible, no.

https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

ETA
They did this to specifically clear up the common misconception that the comment they made about a 6 month time period was true of the entire game from now until console support is dropped. Console is not preventing a new class. The server re-architecure and server replacements are. Those would be needed with or without console.

All I see is PR talk and avoiding a definitive answer, which they did not give but could have. Nothing is impossible is such a gimmick , its not impossible that I could become the next president of the united states or the universe could implode at any second. If they had said "consoles are not preventing us from doing this" then you'd have a case.

But the opposite must also be true. If they had definitively said "consoles are preventing us from doing this" then you'd have a case.

But... they already admitted it once xD

They didn't though. They said "There was a 6 month time period we couldn't do it, but we've fixed that." Players took that to mean "It's impossible because of console." And they said "no, nothing's impossible" to clear that up. At no point have they definitively said that it's impossible because of console.