SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Best PVP update for UE in 2023 can be new server hardware.

So if no PVP upgrade means no new hardware - I think a lot of players will be dissapointed, but if new hardware, than it can be assumed as good PVP update the same time

But if no new hardware = they lie again to the player base ? Do they say, that it would be in 2023?

I have no doubt they will replace the server hardware for the remaining servers, and they absolutely should.

That being said, even on EU/console, the vast majority of performance issues are specifically in cyrodiil. There aren't issues to "exacerbate", as Matt said, in Imperial City or battlegrounds. As such, these areas should receive thoughtful reworks so that we have content to enjoy. I can't imagine where this game would be if PVE or overland went four years without receiving any content at all.

I've mentioned this before, but I'll do it again anyways - despite the new server hardware on PC NA, cyrodill is starting to become extremely laggy every single night during prime time again. While it isn't nearly as bad as EU or console outside of prime time, we are starting to see consistent skill delays and stuttering in the full campaigns each evening, which is exactly what the performance was like before they replaced the servers.

If we truly do have to wait until 2024... that might just be the end of the road for the PvP community.

As a thought experiment I tried to think about what would have happened if ZOS had instead said, "There will be no new casual questing or zone content until after we complete our server code re-write in 2024" and my head exploded because such a thing is simply inconceivable. Yet this is exactly what is being asked of the PvP community (actually, it's worse, considering that we haven't seen new content since like 2017).

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Well; whenever it's a question about what I want most in game, my answer is always a working Cyrodiil. If someone stipulates it can't be to fix something but an added feature; I usually just decline to answer. So if they truly are going to fix it, I'm on board with just doing that for now, although I could go for something to refresh the content a bit. Rotate the faction spawns, or new class/skill line and shift the meta update 35 brought.

With the timeline currently being the end of 2023 or beyond for a code rewrite that might fix cyrodiil performance, I'm not confident that most players are going to stick around waiting for that unless they show us they are invested in PVP succeeding in some other way in the mean time.

The bare minimum they could be doing is giving us monthly weekend events with double telvar or double AP, and instead they're actually cancelling PVP events as seen with the cancelation of the recent double telvar event. Realistically they should be reworking some of the content I suggested above on the side, so that we have something refreshing like you mentioned.

I'd love to see a new weapon line or two sure, that would be great. But it doesn't go far towards generating interest in PVP unless there is new content or a guaranteed performance fix on the horizon.

I agree. Pvp is really important part of gaming at least for me and we really need new content for it.

Atrael7 wrote: »

React wrote: »

Furthermore, what about the "special rulesets for cyrodiil" that Matt promised us?

They're coming... They just need to finish up on that U35 Q&A first.

Jokes aside, I was also initially excited when I saw that. I thought, hey, maybe they'll remember Ravenwatch exists and do something, anything, about it.



I am no longer excited.

React wrote: »

In the January PVP update from @ZOS_MattFiror , he said the following.

ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »

we won’t be adding any new features to PvP until the work mentioned above is complete

In today's update from @ZOS_GinaBruno regarding the work mentioned by Matt in the above post, she says the following.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We have also been working on the re-architecture we originally mentioned earlier this year. It's worth noting this isn't a single item that will go into an individual update, but contains many smaller pieces that will be released over multiple updates starting next year.

All I can read into Gina's statement is that these many smaller pieces will take a while to all roll out, and, given the complexity of the task we're talking about here, I see no indication or guarantee that it'll take just 2023 to do so, just a vague commitment that they'll start implementing then. You could well be looking at 2024 with no pvp, 2025.. After all, we're talking about rather complicated server architecture that the whole game is hanging on here being gradually reimplemented from scratch - U36 was supposed to be a chill, change-nothing update, and we saw how well that went.

React wrote: »

Matt mentions that the main reason that they will not add content to pvp is that they "do not want to exacerbate the issue of poor performance". What about imperial city? It's been dying for a rework for years now. What about battlegrounds? People have been begging for custom BGs, or new formats/sizes of BGs for years. What about dueling? People have been asking for group dueling since dueling's inception. The cyrodiil performance issues do not affect any of these.

The community has asked for years about new content for pvp, things other than Cyrodiil that wouldn't be affected by the bad performance there, and I think we've gotten a grand total of, oh let's see, some emotes, a couple of costumes and the funny side effect of the performance tests that no proc Ravenwatch is? So, some fluff and another dead campaign (a campaign, which, at least on PC EU, used to be as popular as Grey Host back before the changes). Apart from that, all I can think of is bg weekends and 10% bonus xp, which I don't view as new content.

Draw whatever conclusions you want from that, but for me, actions speak louder than words, and I'm sorry to say this, but their actions over these past years give me no confidence that they'll give us anything worthwhile anytime soon. The way I see it, the dev team is hard at work producing new quests, zones, dungeons and crown store content to keep up with their established yearly format, while pvp's been relegated to this side activity that's left there as a "take it as it is" for the minority that still cares for that kind of experience in ESO. Maybe in the mystical future when the re-architecturing is complete and performance is improved that trend'll change, assuming there's still enough of a pvp player base to justify the cost of making that content.

Hard to say but eventually we will reach a point where this will become clear.

a re-architecture isn't content.

they add new pvp sets all the time, that's classified as adding new content.

But I don't think stretching thin the number of active players to new pvp zones without canning the old ones is in the cards right now.

Dr_Con wrote: »

a re-architecture isn't content.

they add new pvp sets all the time, that's classified as adding new content.

But I don't think stretching thin the number of active players to new pvp zones without canning the old ones is in the cards right now.

What good is a new set when you can't load the game, the location calcs are off, the ping yoyos and/or you crash all the time?

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

they add new pvp sets all the time, that's classified as adding new content.

But it isn't, and it isn't considered as such in any other game. The only people who would have you believe this is clueless players, and the company because it makes them look better for not adding any real tangible content to the game.

Adding something to the server that the players can interact with will view this as content, that's the classification. A server/game developer (at least the ones I know) will look at this topic and scoff in response, because under the technical definition they have added content.

Now I'm not speaking on behalf of the ZOS devs, but the game devs I personally know use "new content" or "content updates" to refer to adding new models, weapons, vehicles, buildings, and things of that sort.

They've added lancers. New content. They've added sets. New Content. They've tweaked PVP sets. Content update. They removed a tree, content update. Adding Volendrung, new content. Tweaking Volendrung, content update. MYM, event- which is both content and content update/management.

The issue becomes how to phrase your requests, because if you keep asking for just "new PVP content" as a lay person they'll just keep releasing new PVP sets and believe they are doing their job.

Something along the lines of a "New PVP zone" or "New PVP activity" is better direction, accompanied by a more of a plain idea of what to add so they can expand upon it further.

---

Example: For a PVP content release I would like to see performance-based rewards in an overworld arena where players fight on behalf of their alliance- doing zone quests (invoking the ability to be sponsored by nobles from any faction) can unlock the ability to fight for a preferred alliance.

These players fight each other for rewards, with some PVE mixed in. Players fight on behalf of an alliance but can choose to be mercenaries to fight for any alliance.

Before the fights the players can choose to pay beastmasters or NPC archers or mages to aid them in their fight, but they can only choose one way to inflict damage on the enemy. Players will need to strategize around these debuffs/threats as the potential of these debuffs being selected will have to be carefully considered when players select their builds. Some of these benefits should be inspired by ancient rome- or for more contemporary examples of arena boons you can look at the Hunger Games.

Performance is tracked and at the end of the week the highest performing gladiators are awarded extra alliance points, coffers, prestige, and gold jewelry.

---

this is more along the lines of how to phrase requests, simply asking for "New content" is like asking for food. What kind of food? Cruelty-free? Seafood? Vegetarian? Kosher? Halal? Meat-only? Right now they'll serve us whatever they want because the direction isn't specific enough. They'll need tons of unique ideas and interest being expressed, as well as their creative director to give it the green light.

I want a new (or existing) zone to PVP/PVE. IC mechanics in a new setting. A smaller Cyrodiil that also has challenging PVE things to do.

React wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Well; whenever it's a question about what I want most in game, my answer is always a working Cyrodiil. If someone stipulates it can't be to fix something but an added feature; I usually just decline to answer. So if they truly are going to fix it, I'm on board with just doing that for now, although I could go for something to refresh the content a bit. Rotate the faction spawns, or new class/skill line and shift the meta update 35 brought.

With the timeline currently being the end of 2023 or beyond for a code rewrite that might fix cyrodiil performance, I'm not confident that most players are going to stick around waiting for that unless they show us they are invested in PVP succeeding in some other way in the mean time.

I don't think the code rewrite is end of 2023 or beyond. Based on what Gina said, my feeling is that they will start rolling that out in 1H 2023. People are correct to be skeptical that the rewrite will work. I think that ZOS will feel the same way, to a degree. Adding PVP content is probably going to be a "wait and see" for them to make sure the rewrite worked.

It takes months to make new content, and if they were going to be rolling out big PVP content in 2023, they would already be working on it. I don't see ZOS doing that unless they were absolutely confident in the rewrite and actually had it running on internal servers. My prediction right now: Meaningful PVP content additions, if they do anything on a grand scale at all, will not be before the 2024 Chapter. PVP tweaks (base game changes, new battle grounds, Cyrodiil rules changes, etc) could happen late next year.

As for people leaving because of the lack of attention to PVP... that is a normal Thursday around here.

9 years passed and this game still doesn't have classic Elder Scrolls arenas where two, not three sides fight it out. The only way to have group two-faction PvP is to collect enough agreeable people, meet in the middle of nowhere Cyrodiil and hope for a fair, uninterrupted fight.

Back when I still played PvP in various games, the most enjoyable modes for me were 3v3 to 6v6 arena matches. One of the greatest mistakes ZOS ever made was imposing the three-faction system even on battlegrounds. It turned out to be just more of the same thing. Meanwhile dueling is neglected and group duels are not even a thing.

Dr_Con wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

they add new pvp sets all the time, that's classified as adding new content.

But it isn't, and it isn't considered as such in any other game. The only people who would have you believe this is clueless players, and the company because it makes them look better for not adding any real tangible content to the game.

Adding something to the server that the players can interact with will view this as content, that's the classification. A server/game developer (at least the ones I know) will look at this topic and scoff in response, because under the technical definition they have added content.

Now I'm not speaking on behalf of the ZOS devs, but the game devs I personally know use "new content" or "content updates" to refer to adding new models, weapons, vehicles, buildings, and things of that sort.

They've added lancers. New content. They've added sets. New Content. They've tweaked PVP sets. Content update. They removed a tree, content update. Adding Volendrung, new content. Tweaking Volendrung, content update. MYM, event- which is both content and content update/management.

The issue becomes how to phrase your requests, because if you keep asking for just "new PVP content" as a lay person they'll just keep releasing new PVP sets and believe they are doing their job.

Something along the lines of a "New PVP zone" or "New PVP activity" is better direction, accompanied by a more of a plain idea of what to add so they can expand upon it further.

---

Example: For a PVP content release I would like to see performance-based rewards in an overworld arena where players fight on behalf of their alliance- doing zone quests (invoking the ability to be sponsored by nobles from any faction) can unlock the ability to fight for a preferred alliance.

These players fight each other for rewards, with some PVE mixed in. Players fight on behalf of an alliance but can choose to be mercenaries to fight for any alliance.

Before the fights the players can choose to pay beastmasters or NPC archers or mages to aid them in their fight, but they can only choose one way to inflict damage on the enemy. Players will need to strategize around these debuffs/threats as the potential of these debuffs being selected will have to be carefully considered when players select their builds. Some of these benefits should be inspired by ancient rome- or for more contemporary examples of arena boons you can look at the Hunger Games.

Performance is tracked and at the end of the week the highest performing gladiators are awarded extra alliance points, coffers, prestige, and gold jewelry.

---

this is more along the lines of how to phrase requests, simply asking for "New content" is like asking for food. What kind of food? Cruelty-free? Seafood? Vegetarian? Kosher? Halal? Meat-only? Right now they'll serve us whatever they want because the direction isn't specific enough. They'll need tons of unique ideas and interest being expressed, as well as their creative director to give it the green light.

Now I wonder if those people asking for Cyrodill to be changed into a PvE only zone is considered "asking for New Content"

FelisCatus wrote: »

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

Lebkuchen wrote: »

Kingsindarkness wrote: »

I still think an Oblivion battleground on its own server would be the answer....end the war and turn Cyrodil into a PVE area.

Yeah, take away the only thing some people are playing in this game. Just for fun. Good idea...

I never once said takeaway..I said replace it with something that would be actually fun and would work... an endless war in Oblivion that is PVPVE placed on it's own server that is a seamless instance from the main game server.

That would be much better than what you have now.

I've suggested the same thing prior, take the war out of Cyrodiil. End the three banners war. Overhaul Cryodiil. Split it up into multiple zones for PvE with quests and story. Then move PvP into a daedric realm or pocket realm of oblivion. Make something entirely new like fargrave was a new dimension in oblivion. You could probably go with a fighters guild angle of going into oblivion to fight daedra or something. Don't remove PvP but give it the giant update it needs

The problem with that is that they would not only have to rework Cyrodiil as a whole but also Cyrodiil related achievements, siege weapons and how the function, story quests and voiceovers that mention Cyrodiil and the war, an explanation why the alliances are fighting in an IC like deadra pocket dimenson for the throne etc. And also lore wise. That actually might be more work than it's worth it. Maybe they will add a PvE Cyro for the few quest there are or maybe a chapter where you can visit Cyro in a different time-line or time-period or something, but I'm not seeing them doing such a massive overhaul with how things are looking.

And no, I don't wanna gate-keep Cyrodiil from the PvE crowd, heck, they can add the both options mentioned above, but if they can't even give PvP Cyro an overhaul the chances are pretty slim for a PvE Cyro.

RMW wrote: »

The problem with that is that they would not only have to rework Cyrodiil as a whole but also Cyrodiil related achievements, siege weapons and how the function, story quests and voiceovers that mention Cyrodiil and the war, an explanation why the alliances are fighting in an IC like deadra pocket dimenson for the throne etc. And also lore wise. That actually might be more work than it's worth it. Maybe they will add a PvE Cyro for the few quest there are or maybe a chapter where you can visit Cyro in a different time-line or time-period or something, but I'm not seeing them doing such a massive overhaul with how things are looking.

And no, I don't wanna gate-keep Cyrodiil from the PvE crowd, heck, they can add the both options mentioned above, but if they can't even give PvP Cyro an overhaul the chances are pretty slim for a PvE Cyro.

It's only a "problem" if ZOS doesn't want to put in the effort and resources to make such a change.... and I mean, I think it's just time to admit that Zenimax could do a lot of things player ask for/suggest, they just won't. WoW has overhauled entire zones before, more than once even (Darkshore). They also have a legacy achievement section for old achievements you can't get anymore. And I disagree that this would be more work than it's worth. Cyrodiil is dying, it's been running like it's on life support (lowkey the whole game has) and something needs to change. Revamping Cyrodiil to be normal PVE zones would draw in PVE players. Recreating the Cyrodiil style war in a new zone and polished up a bit more would draw in PVP players. It's a win-win. The only "loss" on Zenimax's part would be actually having to invest time, money, and effort into doing something for the game.... but the payoff would be well worth it. Sadly though, ZOS would rather just continue to line their pockets with reskinned crown store mounts and RNG crates before actually investing more into improving their game.