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Why TESO has no balance:
SPR_of_HA_community
✭✭✭✭
I just show it on little mathematical example.
I like how game was in 2019-2020 years. All was OK at that time. More better and complex CP system, better sets and skill balance.
But then strange changes starts. DOTS were powered 1.5 times, but than nerfed 2 times. It was weak, so i t was buffed and than weakened to even more bad state that it was concidered weak.
As you can see it is bad change, because it had no logick behind it.
But I show even more funny examples:
HP regen was concidered weak, a lot of sources were added, than HP regen was nerfed 2 times - that make nerf to sets, that give HP regen ! But no fixes to them were added.
Proc sets were nerfed ! But just look in funny idea:
As example we have 2 proc sets on and our wpd is about 5k with buffs.
The same time we can put 2 stat WPD sets on and with same buffs and our attack would be about 7k.
Base on database and calculators, for base proc set with DOT effect , that gives 2k damage per 1k WPD - such sets would make 10k both, with about 10seconds calldown.
So it gives you about 40k damage per 20 second.
The same time - 2k more WPD we get with statick sets gives you - more self healing ! So it would be strange if their damage would be bigger too.
Lets calculate it on example of 4 DOTs and 1 spammable for 20 seconds time.
2k more wpd gives your skills about 2.5k more damage, and about 5k on dots.
So for 20 seconds sets with wpd stats will give you about 20k more damage on dots in such model and 16*2.5k = 40k.
So proc sets are worse on healing and on DPS !
Just think about it ! Sets that do less damage, less healing and even MORE IMPORTANT - its effect can be nullify ed with 1 cleanse skill ! You can reupload skills, but sets have calldowns on it !
Proc sets are in greate loss in compare to sets with just stats.
Even better example are HA sets.
Such sets give you no add in healing, now it do same damage as proc sets and - you can not dodge or block whyle doing damage !
It was OK if you can not dodge damage and enemy can not dodge it, because damage can be blocked. But now it looks like - enemy can dodge, block your damage, whyle you can not ! The same time you do not get resources back if he dodge it and the same time you do less damage and less healing.
It is clearly understandable that it is bad balanced.
So you have 2 options now - play in brain dead build with maximize your stats or try to make some interesting build, but for some reason it will always do less damage and healing.
Do not you think that it is some strange way to change the game ? )
And add to all this, that you can put 3 DOT like status effect on enemy. With 3 like that always aplyed - 4 dots and 3 status effects already overperform any proc set damage from proc sets by having more WPD.
Who balanced the game last 2-3 years looks like really did not likeproc sets and the game itself, to just balance the game to 10 most OP sets and making other sets useless !
You cancheck values using this tool:
http://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkills.php
https://eso-sets.com/
And if you look at it proc sets in most part of it have about 2k DPS per 1 k wpd or some even less.
Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 17, 2022 12:53PM I like how game was in 2019-2020 years. All was OK at that time. More better and complex CP system, better sets and skill balance.
But then strange changes starts. DOTS were powered 1.5 times, but than nerfed 2 times. It was weak, so i t was buffed and than weakened to even more bad state that it was concidered weak.
As you can see it is bad change, because it had no logick behind it.
But I show even more funny examples:
HP regen was concidered weak, a lot of sources were added, than HP regen was nerfed 2 times - that make nerf to sets, that give HP regen ! But no fixes to them were added.
Proc sets were nerfed ! But just look in funny idea:
As example we have 2 proc sets on and our wpd is about 5k with buffs.
The same time we can put 2 stat WPD sets on and with same buffs and our attack would be about 7k.
Base on database and calculators, for base proc set with DOT effect , that gives 2k damage per 1k WPD - such sets would make 10k both, with about 10seconds calldown.
So it gives you about 40k damage per 20 second.
The same time - 2k more WPD we get with statick sets gives you - more self healing ! So it would be strange if their damage would be bigger too.
Lets calculate it on example of 4 DOTs and 1 spammable for 20 seconds time.
2k more wpd gives your skills about 2.5k more damage, and about 5k on dots.
So for 20 seconds sets with wpd stats will give you about 20k more damage on dots in such model and 16*2.5k = 40k.
So proc sets are worse on healing and on DPS !
Just think about it ! Sets that do less damage, less healing and even MORE IMPORTANT - its effect can be nullify ed with 1 cleanse skill ! You can reupload skills, but sets have calldowns on it !
Proc sets are in greate loss in compare to sets with just stats.
Even better example are HA sets.
Such sets give you no add in healing, now it do same damage as proc sets and - you can not dodge or block whyle doing damage !
It was OK if you can not dodge damage and enemy can not dodge it, because damage can be blocked. But now it looks like - enemy can dodge, block your damage, whyle you can not ! The same time you do not get resources back if he dodge it and the same time you do less damage and less healing.
It is clearly understandable that it is bad balanced.
So you have 2 options now - play in brain dead build with maximize your stats or try to make some interesting build, but for some reason it will always do less damage and healing.
Do not you think that it is some strange way to change the game ? )
And add to all this, that you can put 3 DOT like status effect on enemy. With 3 like that always aplyed - 4 dots and 3 status effects already overperform any proc set damage from proc sets by having more WPD.
Who balanced the game last 2-3 years looks like really did not likeproc sets and the game itself, to just balance the game to 10 most OP sets and making other sets useless !
You cancheck values using this tool:
http://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkills.php
https://eso-sets.com/
And if you look at it proc sets in most part of it have about 2k DPS per 1 k wpd or some even less.
1
-
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Another day, another post from you about HA builds.
The idea of balance is a made up construct. It is subjective to each individual. No matter the patch, you will have people saying each change was good, or each change was bad. There are no exceptions to this, it is the nature of change, people like to conserve what is, or want to change what is.20 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭Another day, another post from you about HA builds.
The idea of balance is a made up construct. It is subjective to each individual. No matter the patch, you will have people saying each change was good, or each change was bad. There are no exceptions to this, it is the nature of change, people like to conserve what is, or want to change what is.
I was OK how it was for lats 7 years and the most before all big changes after race passives change and etc.
If they do not change anything I would be ok.
But with changes they do I think it is correct to ask as example, if they nerf some thing, why do not they nerf some thing that is better than that )
It is how balance work. If you nerf some thing, you nerf the best or UP some thing worse.
If you nerf worse and do and do not nerf the best - it is not balancing at all.Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 17, 2022 1:42PM0 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »If you nerf worse and do and do not nerf the best - it is not balancing at all.
While I agree that your philosophy on how nerfs should work is in line with my own, the reality of the situation is that ZOS thinks differently. Other games start out strong but dealt with power creep by raising the maximum level or making gear obsolete and needing higher level requirements in later expansions, or made it so only a certain damage type from a certain expansion can damage things within that expansion (see: Everquest). ZOS appear to have taken a similar approach that Riot Games have with League of Legends balancing, which generates short term profits/buzz at the expense of frustrating the player base. The nerfing is of the same manner, where they will nerf many aspects of a thing, rather than the problem of the thing (for example, dark convergence getting a time nerf to 25 seconds and a damage nerf). They will typically release things in a broken or overpowered way, be it DLC reliant or not, just to nerf it later.
What they haven't done yet is make changes to satisfy server performance. Why the balance team isn't forced to abide by fundamentals such as core combat abilities is beyond my level of comprehension.
By tampering with core combat mechanics (this includes your complaints about HA nerfs and lightning losing a tick), ZOS take things a step further. In league of legends, you click a minion and you do an autoattack. Some champions have faster animations to help their auto attacks, so they may need an attack speed nerf to compensate for early game power. Riot Games also tend to nerf other things about a champion at the same time to show that they did a comprehensive review, resulting in overnerfing, which is also seen in ESO when something gets looked at, and rarely do they separate PVE from PVP- (see: the dark convergence nerf).
However, in ESO, when they want to do a Riot Games equivalent of an attack speed nerf, we find that when you you click on a monster and your attack will sometimes hit the target, or sometimes it will hit what's next to the target, and other times it will hit what's directly behind you, and sometimes even still it can cause a crash to desktop with no bug report window opening. This needs to stop.
Due to the unreliability of builds and constant nerfs and buffs, skill isn't allowed be fostered. This game will never develop a robust e-sports interest because of this balancing team obsession with gutting every conceivable build and complicating things for players who enjoy the game and find a way to increase their character's performance. Here's an idea- make sets and abilities to counter other sets and abilities, incentivize the use of different builds depending on what your enemy is using.
I've played many MMOs in my day, but I haven't seen this many drastic changes since SWG. Star Wars is by far a more popular franchise than The Elder Scrolls and even that game did not persist after a series of bad choices by the devs. My hope is that they can leave things alone for a long while and give people a chance to adjust to the changes, while making tweaks to bring certain playstyles in line with others. I don't want to see the return of HA builds in PVP, but in PVE it wouldn't do much harm to tweak it a bit- but what we don't need to see is a duration increased by +0.452 seconds with a damage increase of 28.22%, and increase of channeled ticks from 3 to 4. Touching the timing of things in this game messes with the rhythm of things, providing permanent buffs to certain classes or as a mythic messes with the timing of and rhythm of pvp and is fundamentally flawed (i.e.oakensoul builds). These kinds of core changes/additions to an already taxed system need to stop as the game is no longer reliable on top of being unstable.Edited by Dr_Con on November 17, 2022 2:38PM1 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »If you nerf worse and do and do not nerf the best - it is not balancing at all.
While I agree that your philosophy on how nerfs should work is in line with my own, the reality of the situation is that ZOS thinks differently. Other games start out strong but dealt with power creep by raising the maximum level or making gear obsolete and needing higher level requirements in later expansions, or made it so only a certain damage type from a certain expansion can damage things within that expansion (see: Everquest). ZOS appear to have taken a similar approach that Riot Games have with League of Legends balancing, which generates short term profits/buzz at the expense of frustrating the player base. The nerfing is of the same manner, where they will nerf many aspects of a thing, rather than the problem of the thing (for example, dark convergence getting a time nerf to 25 seconds and a damage nerf). They will typically release things in a broken or overpowered way, be it DLC reliant or not, just to nerf it later.
What they haven't done yet is make changes to satisfy server performance. Why the balance team isn't forced to abide by fundamentals such as core combat abilities is beyond my level of comprehension.
By tampering with core combat mechanics (this includes your complaints about HA nerfs and lightning losing a tick), ZOS take things a step further. In league of legends, you click a minion and you do an autoattack. Some champions have faster animations to help their auto attacks, so they may need an attack speed nerf to compensate for early game power. Riot Games also tend to nerf other things about a champion at the same time to show that they did a comprehensive review, resulting in overnerfing, which is also seen in ESO when something gets looked at, and rarely do they separate PVE from PVP- (see: the dark convergence nerf).
However, in ESO, when they want to do a Riot Games equivalent of an attack speed nerf, we find that when you you click on a monster and your attack will sometimes hit the target, or sometimes it will hit what's next to the target, and other times it will hit what's directly behind you, and sometimes even still it can cause a crash to desktop with no bug report window opening. This needs to stop.
On HA sets they ADD - work only on monsters as example ! So not the best sets, that was good because it was universal stop work in PVP. They do not even stop on that ! They remove DK HA buff and made empower work only on monsters too. That already for DK was lose of 90% of HA damage in PVP !
But it is not all, they remove 1 HA hit and reworked maelstorm staff, so HA lose 30-40% of DPS on it too.
So DK lose about 150% DPS on HA (nerf more than twice).
The same time in PVE with empower buff - damage is the same if compare on target dummy (about 100k DPS), target dummy was buffed on 20-25% more damage, so even with 80% PVE only empower we lose 20+% damage.
So in PVP we were nerfed more than twice !
It is not like 10-20% it is like absolute game changing rules, the same time HA becomes dodjable and LA players do not have a lot of problem with sustain.
With no sustain problem you already start to think, why do I need HA build, if my resources are OK and do not end !
The same time you have less damage and less healing, can not block or dodge whyle attack, whyle your opponent can.
The only one question for that is - who balance it ? Was he drunk ? If so I want that drunking potions too, because it looks like playing teso with it in 2022 looks terribly borring.
The same time skills do not normally press,HA have bug and it can just STOP work ! You need to reload game to make it work = you are dead in HA build if you get such bug.
For 4-5 hours of playing in PVP after U36 I get this bug 2 times !
The even more strange - only HA of lightni g staff do not work ! I changed weapon, other weapon do HA, lightning only staffs are buged. (Do not test only restro staff)
How was possible to even break it like that ?
The same time - dark convergence. It is not OP it is really good set. But because of bugs, you even do not see its animation. You just are killed by nothing !
On tank builds - block do not work ! Trmplars can pirth you with spear in block !
HOW can it stun in block ? No even logick in it ! But ok.
Now siege weapons hit you in block ... the only class that has real problems with that are DK.
DK has no purge - whyle Templars/wardens/necr can purge easely with class skill.
NB and sorc are more mobyle.
Devs looks like really hate DK class. Give them already class change tokens and delete class if you hate this to much !
Just think about it - 2 unical class skills were deleted ! Class lose ability to jump walls. Skills of this class already broken in bad way and did not work for years !
And on just example of chains and same skill from Fighter Guild:
Chains do not pull target in a lot of situations, when Fighter Guild ability do.
HOW ??? It is 2 the same pool mechanicks skills,even animation is the same !
So it really is hard to find any logick.
I think there is no any of it in 2022, but before 2020 all was really fine.
The same time - look on overnerf of plague breaker again ! 20 seconds delay was added. It change the full idea of set and made it bad. Whyle marad bane only get 1 second delay on healing !
It does not even look fair ! I can understand 2-3-5 seconds delay, but 20 ???
The same time HA build were in game from start. If they remove it, then remove more OP builds to - it looks fair ! But they do not do that too !
If you nerf some builds in PVP ok, but nerf more OP builds than this first !
Whyle some builds are immortal with greate mobility and insane damage - HA builds were good, good damage, bad mobility, bad survivability. You fight till the and or die ! Quite good game play.
But what the hell - as exampke sorcs with infinit resoirces - good mobiity and really good damage with assylum shield and sword as example ? Why is not it nerfed ? Or overload combo, some other combis that can even oneshot player by te same time gives you good healing and mobility the same builds ?
OK nerf HA and that too, to not make only US change full gear ! There builds are even better, but it was not nerfed the same time !
And to spend money on sets that are nerfed each stupid update is one big another topic, that i think all players really hate !
I think only on jevelery of sets they nerfed I already lose more than 20kk+ in this game. Some lose even more.
At least give money back when you nerf sets ! At least players can make new gold gear or houses !
Just as example only for undaunted i filtrator some HA players have 6-9 gold jevelerys ! Noble dualist, undaunted unwaver ... . Now serjant, savage wervolf ... . Next I think would be relequin ? )
The same I lose money on plague break jevelery and a lot of sets I colect that they nerf.
Each there new patch with stupid changes players lose money ))
And it is not like players mistake, it is like random changes some ... do.
And it would be good if they will not make US *** farm double perfected version of the same stuff we already do in some arenas )))
Like they do before - at least each gold weapon a lot of players had in collection.
Or may be perfect all gear ? Just think about how many gold sets you alreafy have and how much money you as a player can lose ?
There changes are not even predictable.
And the most part that makes all HA build players even more MAD - not HA builds now have same or better DPS on HA than HA builds ! And they can do better LA DPS and buff the group the same time now.
Nice balancing ?
Just as example pseudo HA build barhamut, that do not even have HA sets:
https://youtu.be/dFjyBbbbUBE
2+ HA builds creators stop play or do any content/builds after that !
Some our content creators start to tell how T-shirts are made after changes like that !
Thats how bad U35-U36 are !
T-shirts becomes more interesting to watch than play and tell about TESO !!!
https://youtu.be/m51G-kzBTLc
Neumka was very nice HA youtuber by the way.
In game where only option you have is brainlesly max stats, I think may be I need to make channel too.
And start to tell how to create felt boots )))Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 17, 2022 3:15PM0 -
chessalavakia_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭IMHO, the logic is that portions of the population are more vocal than others and become rather loud whenever they don't get like the way things are going (Believe me everyone that uses forums regularly already knows you aren't happy about Heavy Attacks) and if you've got enough of them it's easier just to break the thing they are complaining about and move on than to try patching it and having them keep yelling at you if it doesn't work which it very well might not.
For an example of this, Overwatch a few years back reworked one of the healers and made it massively overpowered. They spent nearly the entirety of the next year
If you look at the Heavy Attack changes in U35 it feels like the developers nerfed Heavy Attacks heavily to get them out of PvP and then realized that they'd broken them in PvE as well and quickly pumped out changes to make Heavy Attacks effective for Casual Players.
Personally, I don't fully understand the current design regarding main stat vs weapon/spell damage.
It seems like Weapon/Spell Damage is a bit better than your main stat when it comes to doing damage/healing.
It also seems like it gets better stats lines on gear.
Finally, it seems to get better buffs.
I could understand it being better at one of those as your main stat also increases your capacity but, having it be better in all of those areas seems a little odd especially when the healing sets scale off of max stat.0 -
boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »If you nerf worse and do and do not nerf the best - it is not balancing at all.
While I agree that your philosophy on how nerfs should work is in line with my own, the reality of the situation is that ZOS thinks differently. Other games start out strong but dealt with power creep by raising the maximum level or making gear obsolete and needing higher level requirements in later expansions, or made it so only a certain damage type from a certain expansion can damage things within that expansion (see: Everquest). ZOS appear to have taken a similar approach that Riot Games have with League of Legends balancing, which generates short term profits/buzz at the expense of frustrating the player base. The nerfing is of the same manner, where they will nerf many aspects of a thing, rather than the problem of the thing (for example, dark convergence getting a time nerf to 25 seconds and a damage nerf). They will typically release things in a broken or overpowered way, be it DLC reliant or not, just to nerf it later.
What they haven't done yet is make changes to satisfy server performance. Why the balance team isn't forced to abide by fundamentals such as core combat abilities is beyond my level of comprehension.
By tampering with core combat mechanics (this includes your complaints about HA nerfs and lightning losing a tick), ZOS take things a step further. In league of legends, you click a minion and you do an autoattack. Some champions have faster animations to help their auto attacks, so they may need an attack speed nerf to compensate for early game power. Riot Games also tend to nerf other things about a champion at the same time to show that they did a comprehensive review, resulting in overnerfing, which is also seen in ESO when something gets looked at, and rarely do they separate PVE from PVP- (see: the dark convergence nerf).
However, in ESO, when they want to do a Riot Games equivalent of an attack speed nerf, we find that when you you click on a monster and your attack will sometimes hit the target, or sometimes it will hit what's next to the target, and other times it will hit what's directly behind you, and sometimes even still it can cause a crash to desktop with no bug report window opening. This needs to stop.
On HA sets they ADD - work only on monsters as example ! So not the best sets, that was good because it was universal stop work in PVP. They do not even stop on that ! They remove DK HA buff and made empower work only on monsters too. That already for DK was lose of 90% of HA damage in PVP !
But it is not all, they remove 1 HA hit and reworked maelstorm staff, so HA lose 30-40% of DPS on it too.
So DK lose about 150% DPS on HA (nerf more than twice).
The same time in PVE with empower buff - damage is the same if compare on target dummy (about 100k DPS), target dummy was buffed on 20-25% more damage, so even with 80% PVE only empower we lose 20+% damage.
So in PVP we were nerfed more than twice !
It is not like 10-20% it is like absolute game changing rules, the same time HA becomes dodjable and LA players do not have a lot of problem with sustain.
With no sustain problem you already start to think, why do I need HA build, if my resources are OK and do not end !
The same time you have less damage and less healing, can not block or dodge whyle attack, whyle your opponent can.
The only one question for that is - who balance it ? Was he drunk ? If so I want that drunking potions too, because it looks like playing teso with it in 2022 looks terribly borring.
The same time skills do not normally press,HA have bug and it can just STOP work ! You need to reload game to make it work = you are dead in HA build if you get such bug.
For 4-5 hours of playing in PVP after U36 I get this bug 2 times !
The even more strange - only HA of lightni g staff do not work ! I changed weapon, other weapon do HA, lightning only staffs are buged. (Do not test only restro staff)
How was possible to even break it like that ?
The same time - dark convergence. It is not OP it is really good set. But because of bugs, you even do not see its animation. You just are killed by nothing !
On tank builds - block do not work ! Trmplars can pirth you with spear in block !
HOW can it stun in block ? No even logick in it ! But ok.
Now siege weapons hit you in block ... the only class that has real problems with that are DK.
DK has no purge - whyle Templars/wardens/necr can purge easely with class skill.
NB and sorc are more mobyle.
Devs looks like really hate DK class. Give them already class change tokens and delete class if you hate this to much !
Just think about it - 2 unical class skills were deleted ! Class lose ability to jump walls. Skills of this class already broken in bad way and did not work for years !
And on just example of chains and same skill from Fighter Guild:
Chains do not pull target in a lot of situations, when Fighter Guild ability do.
HOW ??? It is 2 the same pool mechanicks skills,even animation is the same !
So it really is hard to find any logick.
I think there is no any of it in 2022, but before 2020 all was really fine.
The same time - look on overnerf of plague breaker again ! 20 seconds delay was added. It change the full idea of set and made it bad. Whyle marad bane only get 1 second delay on healing !
It does not even look fair ! I can understand 2-3-5 seconds delay, but 20 ???
The same time HA build were in game from start. If they remove it, then remove more OP builds to - it looks fair ! But they do not do that too !
If you nerf some builds in PVP ok, but nerf more OP builds than this first !
Whyle some builds are immortal with greate mobility and insane damage - HA builds were good, good damage, bad mobility, bad survivability. You fight till the and or die ! Quite good game play.
But what the hell - as exampke sorcs with infinit resoirces - good mobiity and really good damage with assylum shield and sword as example ? Why is not it nerfed ? Or overload combo, some other combis that can even oneshot player by te same time gives you good healing and mobility the same builds ?
OK nerf HA and that too, to not make only US change full gear ! There builds are even better, but it was not nerfed the same time !
And to spend money on sets that are nerfed each stupid update is one big another topic, that i think all players really hate !
I think only on jevelery of sets they nerfed I already lose more than 20kk+ in this game. Some lose even more.
At least give money back when you nerf sets ! At least players can make new gold gear or houses !
Just as example only for undaunted i filtrator some HA players have 6-9 gold jevelerys ! Noble dualist, undaunted unwaver ... . Now serjant, savage wervolf ... . Next I think would be relequin ? )
The same I lose money on plague break jevelery and a lot of sets I colect that they nerf.
Each there new patch with stupid changes players lose money ))
And it is not like players mistake, it is like random changes some ... do.
And it would be good if they will not make US *** farm double perfected version of the same stuff we already do in some arenas )))
Like they do before - at least each gold weapon a lot of players had in collection.
Or may be perfect all gear ? Just think about how many gold sets you alreafy have and how much money you as a player can lose ?
There changes are not even predictable.
And the most part that makes all HA build players even more MAD - not HA builds now have same or better DPS on HA than HA builds ! And they can do better LA DPS and buff the group the same time now.
Nice balancing ?
Just as example pseudo HA build barhamut, that do not even have HA sets:https://youtu.be/dFjyBbbbUBE
2+ HA builds creators stop play or do any content/builds after that !
Some our content creators start to tell how T-shirts are made after changes like that !
Thats how bad U35-U36 are !
T-shirts becomes more interesting to watch than play and tell about TESO !!!https://youtu.be/m51G-kzBTLc
Neumka was very nice HA youtuber by the way.
In game where only option you have is brainlesly max stats, I think may be I need to make channel too.
And start to tell how to create felt boots )))
Dk is incredibly strong in pvp and has been for a while. Empower was creating a plague of HA one shot builds in pvp. It was nerfed for a reason, empower was removed for a reason. It was unbalancing literally everything.....0 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭If game was ok 7 years ago about some builds and in some period of time some part of community start to dislike some sets or builds - I see no reason to nerf it.
It was not even TOP PVP builds. Nerf better sets, better skills first ! Than when we become the best - OK nerf US !
But our builds was not ever the TOP, why the hell we are only one who always get nerfs ? Nerf META guys first - they even say it !
META = "skills and sets are better than the others ! You balance game bad and make our sets and builds do more DPS then the others"
Thats how normal balancing in any game work.
You just can not nerf builds with 100k DPS but do not nerf builds with 130k DPS !
If you do so, it shows that balancing is not really a balancing !Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 17, 2022 3:22PM0 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭boi_anachronism_ wrote: »SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »If you nerf worse and do and do not nerf the best - it is not balancing at all.
While I agree that your philosophy on how nerfs should work is in line with my own, the reality of the situation is that ZOS thinks differently. Other games start out strong but dealt with power creep by raising the maximum level or making gear obsolete and needing higher level requirements in later expansions, or made it so only a certain damage type from a certain expansion can damage things within that expansion (see: Everquest). ZOS appear to have taken a similar approach that Riot Games have with League of Legends balancing, which generates short term profits/buzz at the expense of frustrating the player base. The nerfing is of the same manner, where they will nerf many aspects of a thing, rather than the problem of the thing (for example, dark convergence getting a time nerf to 25 seconds and a damage nerf). They will typically release things in a broken or overpowered way, be it DLC reliant or not, just to nerf it later.
What they haven't done yet is make changes to satisfy server performance. Why the balance team isn't forced to abide by fundamentals such as core combat abilities is beyond my level of comprehension.
By tampering with core combat mechanics (this includes your complaints about HA nerfs and lightning losing a tick), ZOS take things a step further. In league of legends, you click a minion and you do an autoattack. Some champions have faster animations to help their auto attacks, so they may need an attack speed nerf to compensate for early game power. Riot Games also tend to nerf other things about a champion at the same time to show that they did a comprehensive review, resulting in overnerfing, which is also seen in ESO when something gets looked at, and rarely do they separate PVE from PVP- (see: the dark convergence nerf).
However, in ESO, when they want to do a Riot Games equivalent of an attack speed nerf, we find that when you you click on a monster and your attack will sometimes hit the target, or sometimes it will hit what's next to the target, and other times it will hit what's directly behind you, and sometimes even still it can cause a crash to desktop with no bug report window opening. This needs to stop.
On HA sets they ADD - work only on monsters as example ! So not the best sets, that was good because it was universal stop work in PVP. They do not even stop on that ! They remove DK HA buff and made empower work only on monsters too. That already for DK was lose of 90% of HA damage in PVP !
But it is not all, they remove 1 HA hit and reworked maelstorm staff, so HA lose 30-40% of DPS on it too.
So DK lose about 150% DPS on HA (nerf more than twice).
The same time in PVE with empower buff - damage is the same if compare on target dummy (about 100k DPS), target dummy was buffed on 20-25% more damage, so even with 80% PVE only empower we lose 20+% damage.
So in PVP we were nerfed more than twice !
It is not like 10-20% it is like absolute game changing rules, the same time HA becomes dodjable and LA players do not have a lot of problem with sustain.
With no sustain problem you already start to think, why do I need HA build, if my resources are OK and do not end !
The same time you have less damage and less healing, can not block or dodge whyle attack, whyle your opponent can.
The only one question for that is - who balance it ? Was he drunk ? If so I want that drunking potions too, because it looks like playing teso with it in 2022 looks terribly borring.
The same time skills do not normally press,HA have bug and it can just STOP work ! You need to reload game to make it work = you are dead in HA build if you get such bug.
For 4-5 hours of playing in PVP after U36 I get this bug 2 times !
The even more strange - only HA of lightni g staff do not work ! I changed weapon, other weapon do HA, lightning only staffs are buged. (Do not test only restro staff)
How was possible to even break it like that ?
The same time - dark convergence. It is not OP it is really good set. But because of bugs, you even do not see its animation. You just are killed by nothing !
On tank builds - block do not work ! Trmplars can pirth you with spear in block !
HOW can it stun in block ? No even logick in it ! But ok.
Now siege weapons hit you in block ... the only class that has real problems with that are DK.
DK has no purge - whyle Templars/wardens/necr can purge easely with class skill.
NB and sorc are more mobyle.
Devs looks like really hate DK class. Give them already class change tokens and delete class if you hate this to much !
Just think about it - 2 unical class skills were deleted ! Class lose ability to jump walls. Skills of this class already broken in bad way and did not work for years !
And on just example of chains and same skill from Fighter Guild:
Chains do not pull target in a lot of situations, when Fighter Guild ability do.
HOW ??? It is 2 the same pool mechanicks skills,even animation is the same !
So it really is hard to find any logick.
I think there is no any of it in 2022, but before 2020 all was really fine.
The same time - look on overnerf of plague breaker again ! 20 seconds delay was added. It change the full idea of set and made it bad. Whyle marad bane only get 1 second delay on healing !
It does not even look fair ! I can understand 2-3-5 seconds delay, but 20 ???
The same time HA build were in game from start. If they remove it, then remove more OP builds to - it looks fair ! But they do not do that too !
If you nerf some builds in PVP ok, but nerf more OP builds than this first !
Whyle some builds are immortal with greate mobility and insane damage - HA builds were good, good damage, bad mobility, bad survivability. You fight till the and or die ! Quite good game play.
But what the hell - as exampke sorcs with infinit resoirces - good mobiity and really good damage with assylum shield and sword as example ? Why is not it nerfed ? Or overload combo, some other combis that can even oneshot player by te same time gives you good healing and mobility the same builds ?
OK nerf HA and that too, to not make only US change full gear ! There builds are even better, but it was not nerfed the same time !
And to spend money on sets that are nerfed each stupid update is one big another topic, that i think all players really hate !
I think only on jevelery of sets they nerfed I already lose more than 20kk+ in this game. Some lose even more.
At least give money back when you nerf sets ! At least players can make new gold gear or houses !
Just as example only for undaunted i filtrator some HA players have 6-9 gold jevelerys ! Noble dualist, undaunted unwaver ... . Now serjant, savage wervolf ... . Next I think would be relequin ? )
The same I lose money on plague break jevelery and a lot of sets I colect that they nerf.
Each there new patch with stupid changes players lose money ))
And it is not like players mistake, it is like random changes some ... do.
And it would be good if they will not make US *** farm double perfected version of the same stuff we already do in some arenas )))
Like they do before - at least each gold weapon a lot of players had in collection.
Or may be perfect all gear ? Just think about how many gold sets you alreafy have and how much money you as a player can lose ?
There changes are not even predictable.
And the most part that makes all HA build players even more MAD - not HA builds now have same or better DPS on HA than HA builds ! And they can do better LA DPS and buff the group the same time now.
Nice balancing ?
Just as example pseudo HA build barhamut, that do not even have HA sets:https://youtu.be/dFjyBbbbUBE
2+ HA builds creators stop play or do any content/builds after that !
Some our content creators start to tell how T-shirts are made after changes like that !
Thats how bad U35-U36 are !
T-shirts becomes more interesting to watch than play and tell about TESO !!!https://youtu.be/m51G-kzBTLc
Neumka was very nice HA youtuber by the way.
In game where only option you have is brainlesly max stats, I think may be I need to make channel too.
And start to tell how to create felt boots )))
Dk is incredibly strong in pvp and has been for a while. Empower was creating a plague of HA one shot builds in pvp. It was nerfed for a reason, empower was removed for a reason. It was unbalancing literally everything.....
DK oneshot build worked on Idea, that HA from sneak was always critical hit.
First question was - where is it written about ?
Second - change it to ordinary strike.
Third - was not NB just do the same 1 hit ? )
The same time HA from sneak is visible and have sound. You can check it if you have alt in as example duel.
Serpent coil prevent from it and you can just block or dodge it.
So it was tons of options to normally fix it or prevent it from happening. The same time not to many DK use that build I only remember 1-2 players who played like that.Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 17, 2022 3:27PM0 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭The same time - part of community do not even like that LA exist ? Why it was not change ? )
It looks like changes are made very selectively. LA has same 20-30% more DPS as before, than HA. HA was nerfed in PVP . Game developers say about some love to HA players. We do not really believe in it, so it is OK. So we was not even dissapointed by not see any love
Standart situation. We see it on CP and other changes before, that goal was not really achived.
The same as skills do not work in PVP but - work under problem in progress.
Even with less active players with all optimizations PVP lags a lot, more than in 2017-2018 years ! Do not it look strange for you - just think about it !
So only one part of community tastes are only encoraged.
Other do not like changes, they are OK like game was and just want some thing new ! Not new bugs and lags the same time And not changes of already existing content !
I do not say that LA have to be delated. I just say that big part of players do not wright on forums and wine about how would balance be better just for them.
We see all that ! We do not wright a lot, do not wine on forums a lot. But we same have limit to our patience.
15% of people just leave saying nothing. It is more than 5k players !
Just think what would be: if each of them just come here and just tell everything he really think about community and the game !
I just say simple truth, a lot of players really think about.
I do not think they think some thing good, otherwise they would not leave the game.
It looks like I am only dissatisfied and wright on forum but do not leave for some strange reason )))
Just think about it like - I was a person that was trusted to tell you all this, other players just can leave peacefully )Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 17, 2022 4:16PM0 -
boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »boi_anachronism_ wrote: »SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »If you nerf worse and do and do not nerf the best - it is not balancing at all.
While I agree that your philosophy on how nerfs should work is in line with my own, the reality of the situation is that ZOS thinks differently. Other games start out strong but dealt with power creep by raising the maximum level or making gear obsolete and needing higher level requirements in later expansions, or made it so only a certain damage type from a certain expansion can damage things within that expansion (see: Everquest). ZOS appear to have taken a similar approach that Riot Games have with League of Legends balancing, which generates short term profits/buzz at the expense of frustrating the player base. The nerfing is of the same manner, where they will nerf many aspects of a thing, rather than the problem of the thing (for example, dark convergence getting a time nerf to 25 seconds and a damage nerf). They will typically release things in a broken or overpowered way, be it DLC reliant or not, just to nerf it later.
What they haven't done yet is make changes to satisfy server performance. Why the balance team isn't forced to abide by fundamentals such as core combat abilities is beyond my level of comprehension.
By tampering with core combat mechanics (this includes your complaints about HA nerfs and lightning losing a tick), ZOS take things a step further. In league of legends, you click a minion and you do an autoattack. Some champions have faster animations to help their auto attacks, so they may need an attack speed nerf to compensate for early game power. Riot Games also tend to nerf other things about a champion at the same time to show that they did a comprehensive review, resulting in overnerfing, which is also seen in ESO when something gets looked at, and rarely do they separate PVE from PVP- (see: the dark convergence nerf).
However, in ESO, when they want to do a Riot Games equivalent of an attack speed nerf, we find that when you you click on a monster and your attack will sometimes hit the target, or sometimes it will hit what's next to the target, and other times it will hit what's directly behind you, and sometimes even still it can cause a crash to desktop with no bug report window opening. This needs to stop.
On HA sets they ADD - work only on monsters as example ! So not the best sets, that was good because it was universal stop work in PVP. They do not even stop on that ! They remove DK HA buff and made empower work only on monsters too. That already for DK was lose of 90% of HA damage in PVP !
But it is not all, they remove 1 HA hit and reworked maelstorm staff, so HA lose 30-40% of DPS on it too.
So DK lose about 150% DPS on HA (nerf more than twice).
The same time in PVE with empower buff - damage is the same if compare on target dummy (about 100k DPS), target dummy was buffed on 20-25% more damage, so even with 80% PVE only empower we lose 20+% damage.
So in PVP we were nerfed more than twice !
It is not like 10-20% it is like absolute game changing rules, the same time HA becomes dodjable and LA players do not have a lot of problem with sustain.
With no sustain problem you already start to think, why do I need HA build, if my resources are OK and do not end !
The same time you have less damage and less healing, can not block or dodge whyle attack, whyle your opponent can.
The only one question for that is - who balance it ? Was he drunk ? If so I want that drunking potions too, because it looks like playing teso with it in 2022 looks terribly borring.
The same time skills do not normally press,HA have bug and it can just STOP work ! You need to reload game to make it work = you are dead in HA build if you get such bug.
For 4-5 hours of playing in PVP after U36 I get this bug 2 times !
The even more strange - only HA of lightni g staff do not work ! I changed weapon, other weapon do HA, lightning only staffs are buged. (Do not test only restro staff)
How was possible to even break it like that ?
The same time - dark convergence. It is not OP it is really good set. But because of bugs, you even do not see its animation. You just are killed by nothing !
On tank builds - block do not work ! Trmplars can pirth you with spear in block !
HOW can it stun in block ? No even logick in it ! But ok.
Now siege weapons hit you in block ... the only class that has real problems with that are DK.
DK has no purge - whyle Templars/wardens/necr can purge easely with class skill.
NB and sorc are more mobyle.
Devs looks like really hate DK class. Give them already class change tokens and delete class if you hate this to much !
Just think about it - 2 unical class skills were deleted ! Class lose ability to jump walls. Skills of this class already broken in bad way and did not work for years !
And on just example of chains and same skill from Fighter Guild:
Chains do not pull target in a lot of situations, when Fighter Guild ability do.
HOW ??? It is 2 the same pool mechanicks skills,even animation is the same !
So it really is hard to find any logick.
I think there is no any of it in 2022, but before 2020 all was really fine.
The same time - look on overnerf of plague breaker again ! 20 seconds delay was added. It change the full idea of set and made it bad. Whyle marad bane only get 1 second delay on healing !
It does not even look fair ! I can understand 2-3-5 seconds delay, but 20 ???
The same time HA build were in game from start. If they remove it, then remove more OP builds to - it looks fair ! But they do not do that too !
If you nerf some builds in PVP ok, but nerf more OP builds than this first !
Whyle some builds are immortal with greate mobility and insane damage - HA builds were good, good damage, bad mobility, bad survivability. You fight till the and or die ! Quite good game play.
But what the hell - as exampke sorcs with infinit resoirces - good mobiity and really good damage with assylum shield and sword as example ? Why is not it nerfed ? Or overload combo, some other combis that can even oneshot player by te same time gives you good healing and mobility the same builds ?
OK nerf HA and that too, to not make only US change full gear ! There builds are even better, but it was not nerfed the same time !
And to spend money on sets that are nerfed each stupid update is one big another topic, that i think all players really hate !
I think only on jevelery of sets they nerfed I already lose more than 20kk+ in this game. Some lose even more.
At least give money back when you nerf sets ! At least players can make new gold gear or houses !
Just as example only for undaunted i filtrator some HA players have 6-9 gold jevelerys ! Noble dualist, undaunted unwaver ... . Now serjant, savage wervolf ... . Next I think would be relequin ? )
The same I lose money on plague break jevelery and a lot of sets I colect that they nerf.
Each there new patch with stupid changes players lose money ))
And it is not like players mistake, it is like random changes some ... do.
And it would be good if they will not make US *** farm double perfected version of the same stuff we already do in some arenas )))
Like they do before - at least each gold weapon a lot of players had in collection.
Or may be perfect all gear ? Just think about how many gold sets you alreafy have and how much money you as a player can lose ?
There changes are not even predictable.
And the most part that makes all HA build players even more MAD - not HA builds now have same or better DPS on HA than HA builds ! And they can do better LA DPS and buff the group the same time now.
Nice balancing ?
Just as example pseudo HA build barhamut, that do not even have HA sets:https://youtu.be/dFjyBbbbUBE
2+ HA builds creators stop play or do any content/builds after that !
Some our content creators start to tell how T-shirts are made after changes like that !
Thats how bad U35-U36 are !
T-shirts becomes more interesting to watch than play and tell about TESO !!!https://youtu.be/m51G-kzBTLc
Neumka was very nice HA youtuber by the way.
In game where only option you have is brainlesly max stats, I think may be I need to make channel too.
And start to tell how to create felt boots )))
Dk is incredibly strong in pvp and has been for a while. Empower was creating a plague of HA one shot builds in pvp. It was nerfed for a reason, empower was removed for a reason. It was unbalancing literally everything.....
DK oneshot build worked on Idea, that HA from sneak was always critical hit.
First question was - where is it written about ?
Second - change it to ordinary strike.
Third - was not NB just do the same 1 hit ? )
The same time HA from sneak is visible and have sound. You can check it if you have alt in as example duel.
Serpent coil prevent from it and you can just block or dodge it.
So it was tons of options to normally fix it or prevent it from happening. The same time not to many DK use that build I only remember 1-2 players who played like that.
No nb does not do the same. It requires 3-5 additional "charge up hits" before it can proc bow. You could literally spam HA. I saw it over and over.
You can not force everyone in to using one mythic to to fight what was one of the most ubiquitous builds for pvp in the game. Especially since you have to pay for the dlc to own it making it literally pay to win. People used fire staff, empower, and wrecked everything. It's a fact.
Your just flat wrong, sorc got nerfed INSANELY this last patch and light attacks were also substantially nerfed, not only that they no longer can use empower AT ALL. In addition where is your supporting data? 15% of players.. 30% of player... How. Where is this data from. Do you even read the patch notes?Edited by boi_anachronism_ on November 17, 2022 5:51PM2 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭boi_anachronism_ wrote: »SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »boi_anachronism_ wrote: »SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »If you nerf worse and do and do not nerf the best - it is not balancing at all.
While I agree that your philosophy on how nerfs should work is in line with my own, the reality of the situation is that ZOS thinks differently. Other games start out strong but dealt with power creep by raising the maximum level or making gear obsolete and needing higher level requirements in later expansions, or made it so only a certain damage type from a certain expansion can damage things within that expansion (see: Everquest). ZOS appear to have taken a similar approach that Riot Games have with League of Legends balancing, which generates short term profits/buzz at the expense of frustrating the player base. The nerfing is of the same manner, where they will nerf many aspects of a thing, rather than the problem of the thing (for example, dark convergence getting a time nerf to 25 seconds and a damage nerf). They will typically release things in a broken or overpowered way, be it DLC reliant or not, just to nerf it later.
What they haven't done yet is make changes to satisfy server performance. Why the balance team isn't forced to abide by fundamentals such as core combat abilities is beyond my level of comprehension.
By tampering with core combat mechanics (this includes your complaints about HA nerfs and lightning losing a tick), ZOS take things a step further. In league of legends, you click a minion and you do an autoattack. Some champions have faster animations to help their auto attacks, so they may need an attack speed nerf to compensate for early game power. Riot Games also tend to nerf other things about a champion at the same time to show that they did a comprehensive review, resulting in overnerfing, which is also seen in ESO when something gets looked at, and rarely do they separate PVE from PVP- (see: the dark convergence nerf).
However, in ESO, when they want to do a Riot Games equivalent of an attack speed nerf, we find that when you you click on a monster and your attack will sometimes hit the target, or sometimes it will hit what's next to the target, and other times it will hit what's directly behind you, and sometimes even still it can cause a crash to desktop with no bug report window opening. This needs to stop.
On HA sets they ADD - work only on monsters as example ! So not the best sets, that was good because it was universal stop work in PVP. They do not even stop on that ! They remove DK HA buff and made empower work only on monsters too. That already for DK was lose of 90% of HA damage in PVP !
But it is not all, they remove 1 HA hit and reworked maelstorm staff, so HA lose 30-40% of DPS on it too.
So DK lose about 150% DPS on HA (nerf more than twice).
The same time in PVE with empower buff - damage is the same if compare on target dummy (about 100k DPS), target dummy was buffed on 20-25% more damage, so even with 80% PVE only empower we lose 20+% damage.
So in PVP we were nerfed more than twice !
It is not like 10-20% it is like absolute game changing rules, the same time HA becomes dodjable and LA players do not have a lot of problem with sustain.
With no sustain problem you already start to think, why do I need HA build, if my resources are OK and do not end !
The same time you have less damage and less healing, can not block or dodge whyle attack, whyle your opponent can.
The only one question for that is - who balance it ? Was he drunk ? If so I want that drunking potions too, because it looks like playing teso with it in 2022 looks terribly borring.
The same time skills do not normally press,HA have bug and it can just STOP work ! You need to reload game to make it work = you are dead in HA build if you get such bug.
For 4-5 hours of playing in PVP after U36 I get this bug 2 times !
The even more strange - only HA of lightni g staff do not work ! I changed weapon, other weapon do HA, lightning only staffs are buged. (Do not test only restro staff)
How was possible to even break it like that ?
The same time - dark convergence. It is not OP it is really good set. But because of bugs, you even do not see its animation. You just are killed by nothing !
On tank builds - block do not work ! Trmplars can pirth you with spear in block !
HOW can it stun in block ? No even logick in it ! But ok.
Now siege weapons hit you in block ... the only class that has real problems with that are DK.
DK has no purge - whyle Templars/wardens/necr can purge easely with class skill.
NB and sorc are more mobyle.
Devs looks like really hate DK class. Give them already class change tokens and delete class if you hate this to much !
Just think about it - 2 unical class skills were deleted ! Class lose ability to jump walls. Skills of this class already broken in bad way and did not work for years !
And on just example of chains and same skill from Fighter Guild:
Chains do not pull target in a lot of situations, when Fighter Guild ability do.
HOW ??? It is 2 the same pool mechanicks skills,even animation is the same !
So it really is hard to find any logick.
I think there is no any of it in 2022, but before 2020 all was really fine.
The same time - look on overnerf of plague breaker again ! 20 seconds delay was added. It change the full idea of set and made it bad. Whyle marad bane only get 1 second delay on healing !
It does not even look fair ! I can understand 2-3-5 seconds delay, but 20 ???
The same time HA build were in game from start. If they remove it, then remove more OP builds to - it looks fair ! But they do not do that too !
If you nerf some builds in PVP ok, but nerf more OP builds than this first !
Whyle some builds are immortal with greate mobility and insane damage - HA builds were good, good damage, bad mobility, bad survivability. You fight till the and or die ! Quite good game play.
But what the hell - as exampke sorcs with infinit resoirces - good mobiity and really good damage with assylum shield and sword as example ? Why is not it nerfed ? Or overload combo, some other combis that can even oneshot player by te same time gives you good healing and mobility the same builds ?
OK nerf HA and that too, to not make only US change full gear ! There builds are even better, but it was not nerfed the same time !
And to spend money on sets that are nerfed each stupid update is one big another topic, that i think all players really hate !
I think only on jevelery of sets they nerfed I already lose more than 20kk+ in this game. Some lose even more.
At least give money back when you nerf sets ! At least players can make new gold gear or houses !
Just as example only for undaunted i filtrator some HA players have 6-9 gold jevelerys ! Noble dualist, undaunted unwaver ... . Now serjant, savage wervolf ... . Next I think would be relequin ? )
The same I lose money on plague break jevelery and a lot of sets I colect that they nerf.
Each there new patch with stupid changes players lose money ))
And it is not like players mistake, it is like random changes some ... do.
And it would be good if they will not make US *** farm double perfected version of the same stuff we already do in some arenas )))
Like they do before - at least each gold weapon a lot of players had in collection.
Or may be perfect all gear ? Just think about how many gold sets you alreafy have and how much money you as a player can lose ?
There changes are not even predictable.
And the most part that makes all HA build players even more MAD - not HA builds now have same or better DPS on HA than HA builds ! And they can do better LA DPS and buff the group the same time now.
Nice balancing ?
Just as example pseudo HA build barhamut, that do not even have HA sets:https://youtu.be/dFjyBbbbUBE
2+ HA builds creators stop play or do any content/builds after that !
Some our content creators start to tell how T-shirts are made after changes like that !
Thats how bad U35-U36 are !
T-shirts becomes more interesting to watch than play and tell about TESO !!!https://youtu.be/m51G-kzBTLc
Neumka was very nice HA youtuber by the way.
In game where only option you have is brainlesly max stats, I think may be I need to make channel too.
And start to tell how to create felt boots )))
Dk is incredibly strong in pvp and has been for a while. Empower was creating a plague of HA one shot builds in pvp. It was nerfed for a reason, empower was removed for a reason. It was unbalancing literally everything.....
DK oneshot build worked on Idea, that HA from sneak was always critical hit.
First question was - where is it written about ?
Second - change it to ordinary strike.
Third - was not NB just do the same 1 hit ? )
The same time HA from sneak is visible and have sound. You can check it if you have alt in as example duel.
Serpent coil prevent from it and you can just block or dodge it.
So it was tons of options to normally fix it or prevent it from happening. The same time not to many DK use that build I only remember 1-2 players who played like that.
No nb does not do the same. It requires 3-5 additional "charge up hits" before it can proc bow. You could literally spam HA. I saw it over and over.
You can not force everyone in to using one mythic to to fight what was one of the most ubiquitous builds for pvp in the game. Especially since you have to pay for the dlc to own it making it literally pay to win. People used fire staff, empower, and wrecked everything. It's a fact.
Your just flat wrong, sorc got nerfed INSANELY this last patch and light attacks were also substantially nerfed, not only that they no longer can use empower AT ALL. In addition where is your supporting data? 15% of players.. 30% of player... How. Where is this data from. Do you even read the patch notes?
NB have a big number of options and each attack from invis can be critical, he must not only do HA.
So if compare NB he has much more options, whyle HA dkhad only one that was much easier to counter.
Wrom U35 I can even say to you that it is no even reason to read patch notes - because if you ust compare changes on live and in patch notes = they are not the same, I even wright a lot about itbefore, you can even find my topics and such problems are completely ignored.
LA nerf was not big problem, because LA was not 50%+ of your damage, like it is for HA player.
And if HA in PVP is nerfed 2 times that is more than half of our damage you really see a difference, whyle for LA player where LA is about 8k and was about 12k = 4 k DPS difference is smal amount, compare to HA players lose of may be about 20k dps ?
The same time U35 was promoted like nerf of LA, no one tell about ha nerf.
It was "love to ha patch"
So if HA and LA difference in PVE is same 20-30% as before LA was nerfed - itshows that HA was the same nerfed.
And in PVE was about 2 times ! Because in PVE it was hide with empower, but even so,we lose damage.
If it was LA players nerf why our damage difference is the same ? Why damage for both builds do not become the same ? )
Because we were again who get real nerf and LA players get no real problems. Exept may be wervolfs, They always get problems the same as we get it too) So excuse me wervolfes, you are good guys I do not even think as LA players about )
You are just fluffy good guys )Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 18, 2022 8:15AM0 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »
Personally, I don't fully understand the current design regarding main stat vs weapon/spell damage.
It seems like Weapon/Spell Damage is a bit better than your main stat when it comes to doing damage/healing.
It also seems like it gets better stats lines on gear.
Finally, it seems to get better buffs.
I could understand it being better at one of those as your main stat also increases your capacity but, having it be better in all of those areas seems a little odd especially when the healing sets scale off of max stat.
@chessalavakia_ESO
Also, as per my testing, around 10.6 of a primary resource is equal to 1 point of spell/weapon damage when it comes to what these points do for the tooltips. Most items display 129 weapon/spell damage as a stat vs 1096 of a primary resource, it's clear that the weapon/spell damage boost will give more damage benefit but a primary resource is still important for utility.
Additionally, for hybridized skills you can have:
30k stamina and 4000 weapon damage
30k magicka and 4000 spell damage
30k stamina and 4000 spell damage
30k magicka and 4000 weapon damage
and you will do the same damage with any one of these with any hybridized skill (I was told that only 1 templar skill scales off just Magicka/SP still so there's probably some buggy exceptions)
In addition to providing extra damage to your abilities, a primary resource has the utility of being the resource pool from which your abilities come from. So there is some use in building up these stat pools, but building into a stat pool will never surpass a highly damaging build.0 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »Another day, another post from you about HA builds.
The idea of balance is a made up construct. It is subjective to each individual. No matter the patch, you will have people saying each change was good, or each change was bad. There are no exceptions to this, it is the nature of change, people like to conserve what is, or want to change what is.
I was OK how it was for lats 7 years and the most before all big changes after race passives change and etc.
If they do not change anything I would be ok.
But with changes they do I think it is correct to ask as example, if they nerf some thing, why do not they nerf some thing that is better than that )
It is how balance work. If you nerf some thing, you nerf the best or UP some thing worse.
If you nerf worse and do and do not nerf the best - it is not balancing at all.
I just want the Block to work
Edited by barney2525 on November 20, 2022 2:20AM0 -
Kingsindarkness✭✭✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »Another day, another post from you about HA builds.
The idea of balance is a made-up construct. It is subjective to each individual. No matter the patch, you will have people saying each change was good, or each change was bad. There are no exceptions to this, it is the nature of change, people like to conserve what is, or want to change what is.
I was OK with how it was for the last 7 years and the most before all big changes after race passives change and etc.
If they do not change anything I would be ok.
But with changes they do I think it is correct to ask for example if they nerf something, why do not they nerf something that is better than that )
It is how to balance work. If you nerf something, you nerf the best or UP something worse.
If you nerf worse and do and do not nerf the best - it is not balancing at all.
I just want the Block to work
I have a feeling soon we won't have a need for Block or weaving.
Call it a hunch.0 -
SPR_of_HA_community✭✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »Another day, another post from you about HA builds.
The idea of balance is a made up construct. It is subjective to each individual. No matter the patch, you will have people saying each change was good, or each change was bad. There are no exceptions to this, it is the nature of change, people like to conserve what is, or want to change what is.
I was OK how it was for lats 7 years and the most before all big changes after race passives change and etc.
If they do not change anything I would be ok.
But with changes they do I think it is correct to ask as example, if they nerf some thing, why do not they nerf some thing that is better than that )
It is how balance work. If you nerf some thing, you nerf the best or UP some thing worse.
If you nerf worse and do and do not nerf the best - it is not balancing at all.
I just want the Block to work
The same, can not play PVE and with broken HA - I even can not bock in PVP, so bash build looks like new melee HA build )))
But need to press bash like Wodey woodpecker )))
But the same can not block and do anything else.
At least I am happy that I do not do LA Edited by SPR_of_HA_community on November 21, 2022 8:30AM1 -
boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kingsindarkness wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »Another day, another post from you about HA builds.
The idea of balance is a made-up construct. It is subjective to each individual. No matter the patch, you will have people saying each change was good, or each change was bad. There are no exceptions to this, it is the nature of change, people like to conserve what is, or want to change what is.
I was OK with how it was for the last 7 years and the most before all big changes after race passives change and etc.
If they do not change anything I would be ok.
But with changes they do I think it is correct to ask for example if they nerf something, why do not they nerf something that is better than that )
It is how to balance work. If you nerf something, you nerf the best or UP something worse.
If you nerf worse and do and do not nerf the best - it is not balancing at all.
I just want the Block to work
I have a feeling soon we won't have a need for Block or weaving.
Call it a hunch.
So you think they are gonna shut down the servers? 🥴 Cause that's da only way block won't matter.0