rework the minor and major buff system system

dsalter · November 2022

jright off the bat im going for the elephant in the room. the buff system is part of the problem with power creep, they make the skill ceiling higher and the floor lower.

all those minor and major buffs? get rid of them and replace them all with a singular buff type that is the value between the both.

for example minor berserk 5% and major berserk 10% would just become berserk 7.5%.
this would lower the max gain but increase the minimum and lower the required amount of buff tracking and such allowing the game to be less punishing for newer players since to many buffs can be overwhelming while more balanceable for the higher end players.
this would allow the game to be more focused on skill rather than who can stack the most buffs to maximize damage

Didgerion · November 2022

dsalter wrote: »

jright off the bat im going for the elephant in the room. the buff system is part of the problem with power creep, they make the skill ceiling higher and the floor lower.

all those minor and major buffs? get rid of them and replace them all with a singular buff type that is the value between the both.

for example minor berserk 5% and major berserk 10% would just become berserk 7.5%.
this would lower the max gain but increase the minimum and lower the required amount of buff tracking and such allowing the game to be less punishing for newer players since to many buffs can be overwhelming while more balanceable for the higher end players.
this would allow the game to be more focused on skill rather than who can stack the most buffs to maximize damage

If they do it then everyone will have all the buffs and the damage will be just too plain.
As result the game will become a zerg fest since you won't be able to stack enough damage to kill anything by yourself, as result you will have to group, and we all know how the grouping goes, it starts as a small group and snowballing into a zerg.

I think there should be buffs that silences other buffs. For example major brutality should silence major protection.
Or your penetration should eat (corrode) your resistance. There are players out there that have 20k+ penetration and 30k+ resistance at the same time which defiles any law of combat, everyone knows that more armor you put on you become more sluggish and as result you do less damage, for some reason the combat in ESO doesn't respect that armor and damage physics.

Urzigurumash · November 2022

Didgerion wrote: »

everyone knows that more armor you put on you become more sluggish and as result you do less damage, for some reason the combat in ESO doesn't respect that armor and damage physics.

Momentum = Velocity x Mass, once reflected in this game's mechanics by an old version of Orc's Swift Warrior passive which increased the Damage Done by Gapclosers. From that perspective Heavy Armor should give a bonus to Melee Damage, but should also slow Light/Heavy Attack speed, increase Cast Times, etc., and should continue to increase your Skill Cost and reduce your Crit Chance as it already does. Right? Whether it should have any effect on Crit Damage from this perspective I guess is debatable.

Certain Named Buffs silencing others is a pretty interesting idea though, never heard that one before. Definitely would make sense with a number of them, thematically and mechanically.

chessalavakia_ESO · November 2022

I would definitely agree that the buff system might benefit from some changes.

I'm on the more casual end of the spectrum and it feels like you are either spending much of your effort on buffs, running Oakensoul, or having lousy stats.

It's fine for your stats to be a bit worse if you aren't putting in the effort to buff but, the gap right now is in my view needlessly large.

I would suggest updating the size of the buffs and shifting the base line stats slightly rather than just scrapping the major/minor.

AlterBlika · November 2022

dsalter wrote: »

this would allow the game to be more focused on skill rather than who can stack the most buffs to maximize damage

Those buffs won't do you any good if your weaving is bad or you haven't mastered your rotation. So it's already the case, isn't it?
Although I really don't get it how getting rid of minor & major buffs is going to help the "skill ceiling".

mmtaniac · November 2022

Every damage reduction except minor and major protection should be removed from game or changed to one of those buffs or armor stat.
Sea Serpent coil + Vampire damage reduction + major minor prot is too much + 33k armor on this. Character like this is too extreme and make toxic tank meta. I know i can play this way too but this game is called play as you want but this kind of mechanics are counter to those definition.

Armor stat is most balanced thing it's possible to reduce it compared to those unhealthy stats.

dsalter · November 2022

AlterBlika wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

this would allow the game to be more focused on skill rather than who can stack the most buffs to maximize damage

Those buffs won't do you any good if your weaving is bad or you haven't mastered your rotation. So it's already the case, isn't it?
Although I really don't get it how getting rid of minor & major buffs is going to help the "skill ceiling".

a skillful player is already maximizing the amount they milk from stacking buffs via backbar and potions along with sets to push out the highest damage possible.
lowering the max cap on buffs by reducing the amount of them+making it a lower total is still going to keep said player pretty high up but instead of just stacking all the minors and majors they'll only need to stack half as many buffs and will likely make more use out of different skills a good example is with less buffs to stack a sorc might actually use CC to get more out of their passive crit bonus (minor currently) instead of using a shield +camo hunter backbar to stack 2 sets of crit (major and minor) so you might see say... sorc root or the rune stun being used to proc out the new crit buff and freeing up an extra skill slot for more optional stuff like gap closing or a root

Amottica · November 2022

Skilled gameplay in every MMORPG is rewarded. The suggestion reduces the rewards for competent gameplay in ESO while doing nothing for the floor of DPS and even ignoring the reason why there are players with excruciatingly low DPS.

The second point is that those players at or near the floor are at that point because of their choices for their build and how to play. So changing buffs they are not likely to use will not miraculously make their DPS better.

Until that is addressed and somehow resolved there is no reason to punish players for skilled gameplay unless punishment is the goal.

AinSoph · November 2022

They should honestly introduce MORE major/minor buffs and even have the classes have a source only unique to them to promote group diversity. An example would be DK, Sorc, and Warden having unique elemental damage boosts called Flammability/Conduction/Frostbite and for Templar, Nightblade and Necromancer they could have Radiance(% magic damage taken)/Fatality(%exe scaling on skills)/Command(%pet damage). I'm just spit-balling here but they could be more creative with the combat in this game.

OBJnoob · November 2022

I dislike the idea. Buff management is a skill so I don't agree with the sentiment that if we made it easier there'd be more room for skill to take place.

I also disagree that power creep is the same as having a skill gap. Power creep is when damage in the entire game goes up. The fact that managing buffs widens the gap between the floor and ceiling is just proof that it takes skill. Skill in rotations and buff management yes but also skill in creating builds and maximizing barspace.

A lot of skill would be removed by doing this.

Treeshka · November 2022

Whatever you change nothing is going to make players invest in these buffs if they do not want to invest.