Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
Hint at where we are going next year?
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TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Finedaible wrote: »Ultimately we know the plot will involve helping/being betrayed by the rulers and fighting some secret organisation or cult who plan to rule/destroy the world as told over an “epic” year long adventure. So I guess setting doesn’t really matter outside of what art assets we want to see more of.
I'm still hoping they're ditching that format. It's just... Not doing it for me.
Think about it though, what else is there? The Questline HAS to have a big bad, so it's either a Mortal Cult/Organization, or a Daedric Entity. Otherwise, would people pay for content where everything was pretty peaceful? No conspiracies or plots, not much fighting. I don't say this as an insult this time but most people have short attention spans, and need big bads to keep interested.
It is incredibly narrow writing brought on by the likes of Marvel plots which require a big bad. Wrothgar did it best by having a villain with morally ambiguous goals. A great villain is often one you can partially identify with. Thieves' Guild dlc didn't even have a main villain per-say, it was more about the adventure and the people you get to know as you find out who betrayed the guild, but then it left it entirely up to the player what to do with that information at the end; it was brilliant. Even Murkmire had better writing where you could actually sympathize to an extent with the antagonist.
I agree with you, but...
Marvel/DC/Superhero movies still make bank at the box office, despite people complaining at their simplistic plots. It's easy to see how a writer could be inspired by that. Why work hard on a plot when a straightforward good-vs-evil story line will suffice?
Actually, many authors use the classic "good vs evil" plot; it's been a staple of storytelling for a very long time, after all.______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....2 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Finedaible wrote: »Ultimately we know the plot will involve helping/being betrayed by the rulers and fighting some secret organisation or cult who plan to rule/destroy the world as told over an “epic” year long adventure. So I guess setting doesn’t really matter outside of what art assets we want to see more of.
I'm still hoping they're ditching that format. It's just... Not doing it for me.
Think about it though, what else is there? The Questline HAS to have a big bad, so it's either a Mortal Cult/Organization, or a Daedric Entity. Otherwise, would people pay for content where everything was pretty peaceful? No conspiracies or plots, not much fighting. I don't say this as an insult this time but most people have short attention spans, and need big bads to keep interested.
It is incredibly narrow writing brought on by the likes of Marvel plots which require a big bad. Wrothgar did it best by having a villain with morally ambiguous goals. A great villain is often one you can partially identify with. Thieves' Guild dlc didn't even have a main villain per-say, it was more about the adventure and the people you get to know as you find out who betrayed the guild, but then it left it entirely up to the player what to do with that information at the end; it was brilliant. Even Murkmire had better writing where you could actually sympathize to an extent with the antagonist.
I agree with you, but...
Marvel/DC/Superhero movies still make bank at the box office, despite people complaining at their simplistic plots. It's easy to see how a writer could be inspired by that. Why work hard on a plot when a straightforward good-vs-evil story line will suffice?
Things always boil down to good vs. evil now matter what. Some things fuzz the lines a bit, but ultimately you have a winner and a loser and the winners write the history, as the saying goes!PC
PS4/PS53 -
TaSheen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »Finedaible wrote: »Ultimately we know the plot will involve helping/being betrayed by the rulers and fighting some secret organisation or cult who plan to rule/destroy the world as told over an “epic” year long adventure. So I guess setting doesn’t really matter outside of what art assets we want to see more of.
I'm still hoping they're ditching that format. It's just... Not doing it for me.
Think about it though, what else is there? The Questline HAS to have a big bad, so it's either a Mortal Cult/Organization, or a Daedric Entity. Otherwise, would people pay for content where everything was pretty peaceful? No conspiracies or plots, not much fighting. I don't say this as an insult this time but most people have short attention spans, and need big bads to keep interested.
It is incredibly narrow writing brought on by the likes of Marvel plots which require a big bad. Wrothgar did it best by having a villain with morally ambiguous goals. A great villain is often one you can partially identify with. Thieves' Guild dlc didn't even have a main villain per-say, it was more about the adventure and the people you get to know as you find out who betrayed the guild, but then it left it entirely up to the player what to do with that information at the end; it was brilliant. Even Murkmire had better writing where you could actually sympathize to an extent with the antagonist.
I agree with you, but...
Marvel/DC/Superhero movies still make bank at the box office, despite people complaining at their simplistic plots. It's easy to see how a writer could be inspired by that. Why work hard on a plot when a straightforward good-vs-evil story line will suffice?
Things always boil down to good vs. evil now matter what. Some things fuzz the lines a bit, but ultimately you have a winner and a loser and the winners write the history, as the saying goes!
That too!______________________________________________________
"But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending." Mercedes Lackey, Into the West
PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- four accounts, many alts....0 -
Aardappelboom✭✭✭✭✭I loved the guild DLCs, especially DB. the idea of building up trust, doing missions, learning about the characters and unraveling an underlying plot is all I need.
They should start properly revisiting the guilds by the way, I loved being part of a guild in all the elder scrolls games but they are kind of dormant now...10 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Aardappelboom wrote: »I loved the guild DLCs, especially DB. the idea of building up trust, doing missions, learning about the characters and unraveling an underlying plot is all I need.
They should start properly revisiting the guilds by the way, I loved being part of a guild in all the elder scrolls games but they are kind of dormant now...
I was thinking along similar lines, a more personal story would be pretty nice.
Of course that would hinge on the characters actually being likeable. They used to be able to pull that off, but recently I couldn't tell you any of their characters I liked.
But at this point even a personal rival would be more refreshing than another evil cult. Frankly I don't understand how they managed to inject two evil cults into this year's story, when Breton politics would offer more than enough group conflict without having to wear masks and devilish garb. A Breton noble wanting to reclaim his heritage of Druidic royalty is good enough, why tell it in such a downtrodden way.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.5 -
Snamyap✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Aardappelboom wrote: »I loved the guild DLCs, especially DB. the idea of building up trust, doing missions, learning about the characters and unraveling an underlying plot is all I need.
They should start properly revisiting the guilds by the way, I loved being part of a guild in all the elder scrolls games but they are kind of dormant now...
I was just thinking about this yesterday. They put a Thieves' Den in every new zone but there is never any content there. Why not put one or two side quests in there? Stealing this, murdering that, etc. At least we got to move through a TD for a quest this time.Edited by Snamyap on November 7, 2022 9:10AM6 -
FluffyBird✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ultimately we know the plot will involve helping/being betrayed by the rulers and fighting some secret organisation or cult who plan to rule/destroy the world as told over an “epic” year long adventure. So I guess setting doesn’t really matter outside of what art assets we want to see more of.
I'm still hoping they're ditching that format. It's just... Not doing it for me.
Think about it though, what else is there? The Questline HAS to have a big bad, so it's either a Mortal Cult/Organization, or a Daedric Entity. Otherwise, would people pay for content where everything was pretty peaceful? No conspiracies or plots, not much fighting. I don't say this as an insult this time but most people have short attention spans, and need big bads to keep interested.
First of all, it's actually a big problem of ESO - treating their players as if they have intelligence of a potato and attention span of a puppy. I mean, they might really have, but that shouldn't be encouraged.
Secondly, there's so much more bases for a plot than "bad guy is bad, evil cult is evil, go save the world". Orsinium was mentioned before - beautifully written political story with a degree of ambiguity to the "bad guys". We could have political rivalry or academic, solving a mystery (hello, Investigator Vale), preventing some natural disaster or, maybe, stopping someone who isn't really a bad guy, but we just need to stop them (like Azhdaha from Genshin Impact). Imagine if we helped Rada to do what he wanted to do without killing a ton of people instead of the usual bad guy treatment! Or we could have a cautionary tale that goes further than "don't be the bad guy or a hero will kick your butt". That's just off the top of my head.
Even saving the world from the Big Evil in the Daedric War arc was so much better than what we got with Daddy Dagon.
And last, but not least, I just thought, that problem isn't that ESO plots and themes are boring. It's that the writing is bad and bland. That's it. It seems they got Smolder Scrolls people into the team and they dragged the whole story department down to the Smolder Scrolls level.8 -
kind_hero✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ultimately we know the plot will involve helping/being betrayed by the rulers and fighting some secret organisation or cult who plan to rule/destroy the world as told over an “epic” year long adventure. So I guess setting doesn’t really matter outside of what art assets we want to see more of.
Haha
that's so true!
I also think they tried a few times to sell us the Argonians besides the main game (Murkmire, half of Blackwood), and from what I could see, that content wasn't very popular. I also woudn't like a year long of swamps and jungles.
I hope we will get a Redguard chapter. Whiterun, I am not sure, it feels too soon after Greymoor, Nords again? I wouldn't mind as a DLC though.
TBH I hope that next year they will make up for this rather weak content they delivered in the past two years. Some game enhancements would be better received than another shallow expansion. Probably what is really due is some major PvP update, like a new Cyrodiil like map.
[PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter0 -
Snamyap✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just ran a character through the second half of the Murkmire main quest yesterday. I like Murkmire, and the swamps and the stone ruins of the ancient Argonians. Don't understand why some people hate that content so much, but to each their own. Of course a balance between content for the different races and cultures is a must. Woold elves are long overdue, would also be a good moment to give them their stealth back...10 -
TybaltKaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Does this site not usespoiler tags?
Some of us haven't finished the last chapter yet, or even started it.
Beyond that, I'm hoping for some more Redguard, Argonian or Bosmer content. I'm tired of Bretons, Imperials and Nords. Elsweyr was fun because it was new and interesting, and even managed to shoehorn dragons in as a quick wink and nod to Skyrim (to bring in those players even more, never mind that it makes no sense).
Finishing up Hammerfell or expanding on Black Marsh would be nice. Maybe something with the Bosmer and Khajiit border wars in that lovely open space between Northern and Southern Elsweyr that can start in Grahtwood and end in that little chunk south of Blackwood and East of Murkmire.- Tybalt Kaine Khajiit Nightblade Aldmeri Dominion
- PC/NA
- Guildmaster- Lucky Raven
- Knight of Marrow - Blackfeather Academy
- Adepti- The Witches Goblet
- "Nightblade healer huh? How does that work?"
- "I drain the blood of our enemies and fire it into you. It's a lot less messy than it sounds, and yeah I'm basically a Vampire without the whole AGH FIRE BAD"
1 -
Snamyap✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is a noble in Vastyr that is so sick and tired of all the trouble on the Systres Archipelago that she's considering moving to the Telvanni Peninsula, saying the weather should be nice this time of year (iirc).Edited by Snamyap on November 7, 2022 11:56AM1 -
Lady_Galadhiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There is a noble in Vastyr that is so sick and tired of all the trouble on the Systres Archipelago that she's considering moving to the Telvanni Peninsula, saying the weather should be nice this time of year (iirc).
Would match with the NPC after the High Isle main quest saying she is considering going to the same place.
However, if it ithis will happen next year, I wouldn't be so sure about it. But surely something they have in plan for the future.Total ESO playtime: 8325 hours
ESO plus status: Cancelled
ESO currently uninstalled.0 -
PrimusTiberius✭✭✭✭Whatever the story is or where it takes place is fine by me, I'm just hoping for a good mystery and intriguing plot with some suspense added for flavor (and no more nerfs or major changes).Everyone is going in one direction, I'm going the other direction4 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They do have the delve-initiated quest where you have to report either Clan Morkul or the other Clan was right.
I wanted an option to say "neither one is right, both claim credit though, see" but you HAD to pick one.PC
PS4/PS50 -
Carcamongus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I found this lady by the road. Apparently, she can see the future, but instead of learning about lotto numbers, she saw some future threat.
My first thought was the Telvanni dealing with global warming.Imperial DK and Necro tank. PC/NA
"Nothing is so bad that it can't get any worse." (Brazilian saying)5 -
RaddlemanNumber7✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Having played all the way through the "Legacy of the Bretons", I must say this feels like a very good place to end the story of ESO. Time to move on to ESO 2.
Perhaps that's what that map of Tamriel shows - starting again from a clean sheet.PC EU3 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I agree with you, but...
Marvel/DC/Superhero movies still make bank at the box office, despite people complaining at their simplistic plots. It's easy to see how a writer could be inspired by that. Why work hard on a plot when a straightforward good-vs-evil story line will suffice?
Because you love writing and you're creative, and your audience is crying out for something different.4 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Finedaible wrote: »Wrothgar did it best by having a villain with morally ambiguous goals. A great villain is often one you can partially identify with. Thieves' Guild dlc didn't even have a main villain per-say, it was more about the adventure and the people you get to know as you find out who betrayed the guild, but then it left it entirely up to the player what to do with that information at the end; it was brilliant. Even Murkmire had better writing where you could actually sympathize to an extent with the antagonist.
I agree with this, strongly.
Even moreso, I'd love for the writers to give us more device or agency. Exploring some story through different factions/lenses. Controversial, but I think Skyrim did it really well- there were great reasons to support or oppose Tullius or Ulfric. Neither was a villain in the true sense, but the pacing format remains the same- build up, showdown etc.
Imagine if in Orsinium you could have opted to support the Winterborn instead. Or you could join the Iron Wheel or Order of the Hour in TG/DB. More complex, interesting stories, more replayability, more to explore.
I think we experience more of the Contiki Tour- hit all the checkboxes, then move on. The SPTs had the luxury of immersive writing.
I think the year-long chapter format has problems with pacing, and I think the release cadence has very strong constraints to writing. I also personally wish that there was more time and space for writing. Everything is on a real tight budget.7 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »
Its what you get when you rely on the income of an upgrade sale each year, with DLC packs, as in the current approach.
Changing would likely throw off their current business model, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for something different. The business end usually drives most companies.
Yeah, I think so too.1 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Aardappelboom wrote: »I loved the guild DLCs, especially DB. the idea of building up trust, doing missions, learning about the characters and unraveling an underlying plot is all I need.
They should start properly revisiting the guilds by the way, I loved being part of a guild in all the elder scrolls games but they are kind of dormant now...
Very strong agree here, on both points.
I was thinking of putting a post up requesting ZOS do more guild stuff. I remember how much my playthroughs of the SPTs revolved around guilds.
I also think that its such a shame to have these really cool guild buildings with these interesting and quirky characters you can meet every year (nod to the Vastyr Mage's Guild! I love it! Great job, ZOS!) but that serve absolutely no purpose, after you've run through and met them all. So much work put into them in order to check the box, but nothing else. I'd personally love to be able to "use" guildhalls- maybe access to mats you can harvest every day, or something in return for maintaining a rank by doing daily quests. I really wouldn't mind if they were low-key, simple delve dailies that employ the same delves as other radiant quests. I just want it to actually *mean* something!
Sorry for the tangent, folks! Carry on...Edited by Supreme_Atromancer on November 8, 2022 9:09PM3 -
Ingenon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Looking at the companions ZOS has released so far (Imperial, Dark Elf, Breton, Khajiit), I think that somewhere in Skyrim works, with a Nord companion as one of two for the year.
Black Marsh would also work, with an Argonian companion as one of two for the year.
And a Redguard or Bosmer land would also work. Or Altmer or Orc!
Lots of choices for ZOS, if they follow the pattern they have been using for the past several chapters, where one of the companions races is the race of many of the NPC in the new zone.0 -
Finedaible✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Supreme_Atromancer wrote: »Finedaible wrote: »Wrothgar did it best by having a villain with morally ambiguous goals. A great villain is often one you can partially identify with. Thieves' Guild dlc didn't even have a main villain per-say, it was more about the adventure and the people you get to know as you find out who betrayed the guild, but then it left it entirely up to the player what to do with that information at the end; it was brilliant. Even Murkmire had better writing where you could actually sympathize to an extent with the antagonist.
I agree with this, strongly.
Even moreso, I'd love for the writers to give us more device or agency. Exploring some story through different factions/lenses. Controversial, but I think Skyrim did it really well- there were great reasons to support or oppose Tullius or Ulfric. Neither was a villain in the true sense, but the pacing format remains the same- build up, showdown etc.
Imagine if in Orsinium you could have opted to support the Winterborn instead. Or you could join the Iron Wheel or Order of the Hour in TG/DB. More complex, interesting stories, more replayability, more to explore.
I think we experience more of the Contiki Tour- hit all the checkboxes, then move on. The SPTs had the luxury of immersive writing.
I think the year-long chapter format has problems with pacing, and I think the release cadence has very strong constraints to writing. I also personally wish that there was more time and space for writing. Everything is on a real tight budget.
I think choosing a side would be impossible to implement, but I am glad you pointed out the lack of player agency. As I mentioned in my previous post at least being able to affect certain outcomes slightly like with the Clockwork City/Mages Guild questlines goes a long way to provide that Elder Scrolls experience. We haven't seen any significant player agency after Summerset with the change to the 'year-long-theme' format. I get that this simplified format might have made things easier on devs and writers but it's just shallow and does not carry the same care and quality that Elder Scrolls has been known for. These days it's just a slideshow story with false choices playing in front of the Vestige's eyes with no difference in outcome. I think they should go back to their roots and look at some of the quest designs from the original base game zones and early dlc like with the Thieve's Guild, Shazah and Khali in Reaper's March, or the choice of Sir Hughes' fate - the reason this choice was so memorable for me is it made you think about the possible repercussions your choice could possibly bring to the Covenant. They really need to give players a stake in the story for them to feel invested.4 -
kind_hero✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭At the end of the Peace Talks questline, there is a map of Tamriel in the hall. People noticed a pin that points to Whiterun, in Skyrim. I looked myself, it really looks like a pin, and not something clipping from the easel.
But I think it's a false lead, because there is little reason to revisit Skyrim again, Greymoor wasn't so long ago.
Also, after touching so much on druids and the bond with nature theme, I find it unlikely to see a Bosmer chapter.
To me, a lead towards Hammerfell was the dialogue with the Redguard noble in Vastyr, the one with the lava frog.
But who knows, the devs are more secretive than in the previous years... it could be anywhere.
[PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter1 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Didn't they say that they wanted to do a deep dive on each race before revisiting other areas? So that really only leaves Bosmer and Redguards.
This approach is well intended and all but kind of gives away 2024 because whatever race we don't get that's where we will go.
Personally, I'd love to see Dawnstar and Winterhold.1 -
Kappachi✭✭✭✭✭RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »Having played all the way through the "Legacy of the Bretons", I must say this feels like a very good place to end the story of ESO. Time to move on to ESO 2.
Perhaps that's what that map of Tamriel shows - starting again from a clean sheet.
We have so many locations left unexplored, and an infinite number of oblivion portals that can serve as locations for more chapters/dlcs/etc. I say we keep going until the end of time with engine updates every half a decade or so.2 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ultimately we know the plot will involve helping/being betrayed by the rulers and fighting some secret organisation or cult who plan to rule/destroy the world as told over an “epic” year long adventure. So I guess setting doesn’t really matter outside of what art assets we want to see more of.
I'm still hoping they're ditching that format. It's just... Not doing it for me.
Think about it though, what else is there? The Questline HAS to have a big bad, so it's either a Mortal Cult/Organization, or a Daedric Entity. Otherwise, would people pay for content where everything was pretty peaceful? No conspiracies or plots, not much fighting. I don't say this as an insult this time but most people have short attention spans, and need big bads to keep interested.
I mean, you could have a more parochial power squabble to solve, like the matter of Imperials vs. Stormcloaks in Skyrim. Without reading between the lines as to the true intentions of the Thalmor, that was not an existential threat to all of Tamriel, more a domestic struggle amongst the Nords. We can also see this in the Crowns vs. Forebears conflict in the Redguard areas in ESO. IMO, these are much more interesting formats for Main Quest storylines than Daedric Cult #999 trying to claim Tamriel for [Insert Daedric Prince Here].2 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FluffyBird wrote: »If they make one more chapter leeching off nostalgia and make it Skyrim again so soon after DHoS, I'm out.
Yeah, I was disappointed we didn't get Whiterun in Greymoor, it was my favorite city in The Elder Scrolls V.... but I'd hate to see them take us back to Skyrim so soon. Andddd I can't help doubting ESO would manage to do it justice anyway so hahahahaaaa
Probably should of been Whiterun for Greymoor, in Skyrim there is a fort just west of Whiterun called Fort Greymoor, that whole section of Blackreach could of been under Whiterun instead.1
